Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizards_White_Knight 11-17-05, 09:25 PM	Im not the best roleplayer in the world. But nor am I anything near a "powergamer". My highest ever strength score has been 14, compared to my favourite stat, Charisma, which I have had it go to a 20 by level four by roleplaying a mature character. I am, in real life, a highly charismatic person, and I seem to always play them in DnD. However, it is, in most cases, a useless stat. As I have stated somewhere else on these boards (I think the point buy thread in the DM boards), my group is about to embark on the Shackled City. Absolutely 100% determined to FINALLY play my first spellcasting character, I just finished making my gestalt Paladin/Marshal. *sigh* Anyway, despite my unexplained aversion to magic users...I still managed to pick two classes that need a strong charisma score. For whatever reason, I am also a dwarf. *Shrugs* Let's call it pure roleplaying shall we? ;) A few days ago, I saw a thread about dump stats, and one guy in had Charisma to AC, Damage, Saves, etc etc etc. I assume saves and damage come from being a paladin, which, as luck would have it, so am I! But being on a point buy, my stats ended up as Str 10, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15 (after racial modifiers). I wear interlocking plate (RoS), and use a tower shield. This comes across as nigh impossible to hit (24 AC if I dont move in combat, 22 if I do) at level 1, but with a BaB of 1, and no strength modifer...nor will I be hitting anything. And if I do, I wont be doing much damage (1d0 - Dwarven Waraxe) So, my question is, how do I get the most bang from my buck? I got a little tank, High AC, High HP, but no way of putting hte hurt on. I intend on making my Cha 16 at level 4, and my first marshall ability wil either be Motivate Dex (for initative) or Master of Tactics, since there is only myself and my friend as the PC's and we often go for the only combat tactic we can = flanking. Can anyone suggest anything else for this character? I dont intend for him to be uber in combat, as thats what the duel Bastard sword wielding Gestalt Rogue/Barbarian is for. Just tips/suggestions to get the most out of my charisma score. WWK
Lord Gwydion 11-17-05, 10:17 PM	Umm, talk to people? All the time? Really, what are you asking here? You seem to have a pretty firm grasp of your character's abilities. The only thing you didn't mention (since you don't have Sorcerer or Bard levels) related to Charisma are the skills. So be diplomatic. Be intimidating. Handle some animals. Pull the wool over people's eyes (but only if they're evil...don't want to lose your Pally benefits!) Try to use some magic devices. Gather some information. Aside from your role of absorbing and negating lots of attacks in combat while buffing your party, obviously the high Charisma character should be the face of the party. This is pretty obvious, isn't it? You don't necessarily have to be the leader, but you should be the one out there negotiating, bargaining, and hob-knobbing on behalf of the others outside of combat (and potentially preventing some combats).
Wizards_White_Knight 11-17-05, 10:45 PM	Ok. I have heard of how to add Cha to AC. How do I do this? Are there any other things that I don't know about that Charisma can do? Can it replace a reflex save somehow? I knwo there are some feats that allow you to use Cha instead of will. What about reflex? Just, anything anyone can throw my way (WotC material only. Possibly some dragon stuff. My DM reads the boards so I may be able to swing it) that means I can more effectively channel everything through Charisma. I want Charisma to be my one stop shop ability. Any classes anyone can think of that would help me? Think I should take a level in Sorcerer for True Strike? Think I should take a level in Warmage for Fist of Stone? Think I should take a level of Cleric because my "party" of two has no healer? Any suggestion at all really. I know what Charisma can do when I am not trying to uber myself up. Basically, this is an appeal to all those number-crunchers and feat lovers who memorise page numbers and descriptive text of all those broken feats. Its a 2 man party going into a pre-made 6+ campaign! WWK
High Octane 11-17-05, 11:41 PM	Be a Paladin! All their abilities are charisma based! And take the feat force of personality. (Uses charisma instead of wisdom for will saves.) Be the paladin no one expects! The nice charismatic friendly one that leaves you warm and happy instead of the smiting jackass who killed the child cause it touched its wee wee and god hates that! Diplomacy and sense motive are class skills for a paladin I think. Be the paladin like Boramir who shouted from the steeple that no one would ever take his city, then come down and be adored for it! That is the example of what a paladin SHOULD be! (One ring notwithstanding)
allenchan 11-17-05, 11:46 PM	This thread will answer all your questions: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889
Silverthumb128 11-18-05, 08:24 PM	I have heard of how to add Cha to AC. How do I do this? Die, and come back as a Ghost.
Thanqol 11-19-05, 01:41 AM	Signature for rant on paladins. But the feat Force Of Personality only applys to mind-affecting things. (Does will apply to any non-mind effecting abilities?). Extra Smiting and henceforth are good. I don't know how you can add Cha to AC outside of dying, though.
Darkmatter20 11-19-05, 05:19 AM	OK from a mechanics viewpoint: Why do you have 17 CON? Did you get to pick where these go yourself? I know " 17 CON loads of hit points" sounds nice but you already have a D10 hitdice. Really the bonus for you having a high CON isn't that impressive compared to having a higher STR. A wizard benefits more from a high CON then a figther does :) Basicly you're going to have a high AC as a Paladin so less attacks get through anyway. You can heal a bit so thats ok too. Better to move that CON value around and spread it out among your other physical stats. That thread that allenchan posted is very nice. Recommend if its from a mechanics point of view you should wander around the Op boards a bit.
Ibbins 11-19-05, 12:23 PM	(Does will apply to any non-mind effecting abilities?) Hold Person and Inflict spells. Going Divine Crusader1/Fist of Raziel 10 for the later levels is great for exploiting high Charisma.
Ogmug 11-19-05, 12:42 PM	divine sheild from complete warrior use a turn attempt, channel your cha bonus into the shield, increasing its armor bonus pretty much any of the "divine" feats use the cha bonus as the number used. some dms grant the bonus to the sheild as a divine bonus.
shadowrisae 11-20-05, 02:33 PM	Paladins and sorcerers use CHA for their abilities. Also you can use it for speaking roles, like others have mentioned. Part of the speaking stuff you'll have to work with your DM on. For instance, if you have a high CHA and you were in my game, perhaps the party would go to an inn to stay for the night and the innkeeper, a dwarven woman who finds your character rather attractive, decides to give the party a discount on their rooms. :)
Wizards_White_Knight 11-20-05, 05:12 PM	OK from a mechanics viewpoint: Why do you have 17 CON? Did you get to pick where these go yourself? I know " 17 CON loads of hit points" sounds nice but you already have a D10 hitdice. Really the bonus for you having a high CON isn't that impressive compared to having a higher STR. A wizard benefits more from a high CON then a figther does :) Basicly you're going to have a high AC as a Paladin so less attacks get through anyway. You can heal a bit so thats ok too. Better to move that CON value around and spread it out among your other physical stats. That thread that allenchan posted is very nice. Recommend if its from a mechanics point of view you should wander around the Op boards a bit. Because the dwarven racial abilites boosted it from 15 to 17, and changed my charisma from 17 to 15. Yes, I got to pick them myself, a point buy system was used. Strength isnt that important to me. I jsut cant seem to play a high strength character, or a magic user. My highest stats always end up being Int and Cha. I am aware that I dont need much hit points, but my dwarf is who he is. Alas, he was born weaker than all teh other dwarves, and they tried picking on him and beating him up! But boy, did he ever take thier punches?! I dont need to deal massive amounts of damage. Thats what the barbarian/rogue (raging sneak attack anyone?) who dual wields bastard swords is for.
Chimaera2000 11-22-05, 01:58 PM	The Divine Shield feat from Complete Warrior has already been mentioned to add your Charisma bonus to your shield's AC at the cost of a turning attempt. Likewise, the Divine Might feat from the same book allows you to add your Charisma bonus to weapon damage at the cost of a turning attempt. The Kiai Shout and Greater Kiai Shout feats from Complete Warrior may catch your eye as well. For a fairly obscure bonus, the Iaijutsu Master prestige class from Oriental Adventures allows you to add your Charisma bonus to Initiative as a second-level ability.
spoogemonkey 11-23-05, 10:54 AM	Whaaaaat?!? "I can't seem to play a character with Str"?????? huh? Why not? Really.... how hard could it be? "I always end up playing characters with high Int and Chr" "I have high Chr myself." It seems obvious that you are just attempting to play YOURSELF, or, rather, your Perceived Self. Because, if that is all you play every time.... you are probably NOT very smart OR charismatic to others. You are just in a rut.... and asking for help from US .... to dig the rut deeper. Sheesh, what an ego...
Leap_UK 11-23-05, 02:16 PM	I am, in real life, a highly charismatic person This has got to be a wind-up post! Go on. It is, isnt it?!! If not that is perhaps one of the most uncharismatic statements I have ever *heard* rofl.
Dylan02 11-23-05, 05:41 PM	We use charisma as a way of showing how proffessional you are. For example, your paladin would look well trained and therefore may put off more cowardly or subtle characters from attacking you. You would be less likely to be subject of a sneak attack because the dozy barbarian next to you looks like he would be more likely to go down as a result of the sneak attack.
Leap_UK 11-24-05, 03:50 AM	We use charisma as a way of showing how proffessional you are. For example, your paladin would look well trained and therefore may put off more cowardly or subtle characters from attacking you. You would be less likely to be subject of a sneak attack because the dozy barbarian next to you looks like he would be more likely to go down as a result of the sneak attack. That's a nice idea - lower charisma makes you look more like a victim-in-waiting 'cos you lack self-esteem / confidence....
nordyboy 11-24-05, 08:55 AM	Whaaaaat?!? "I can't seem to play a character with Str"?????? huh? Why not? Really.... how hard could it be? "I always end up playing characters with high Int and Chr" "I have high Chr myself." It seems obvious that you are just attempting to play YOURSELF, or, rather, your Perceived Self. Because, if that is all you play every time.... you are probably NOT very smart OR charismatic to others. You are just in a rut.... and asking for help from US .... to dig the rut deeper. Sheesh, what an ego... This has got to be a wind-up post! Go on. It is, isnt it?!! If not that is perhaps one of the most uncharismatic statements I have ever *heard* rofl. O.k. guys, lets not attack him personally here. Ther's no need for that. In regards to the OP, if you really want to play a charimatic Dwarf, might I suggest playing a Gold Dwarf from the Faerun setting? They get -2 DEX instead of -2 CHA. Complete Warrior has a number of Divine feats that let you sacrifice a Turn Undead attempt to gain some sort of bonus depending on your Charisma score. (The one that lets you do damage with Charisma requires 13 STR, however. Maybe you could sacrifice some of your crazy good CON in order to up that. There is a Divine feat that gives you extra hitpoints...)
Balor von Balorvitch 11-24-05, 11:00 AM	For a fairly obscure bonus, the Iaijutsu Master prestige class from Oriental Adventures allows you to add your Charisma bonus to Initiative as a second-level ability. Yea as well as the Iaijutsu skill allows you to add your cha on every extra dice you roll (10d6+40 (75) for 18 cha with 22 on the skill check)
Wizards_White_Knight 11-24-05, 05:02 PM	Whaaaaat?!? "I can't seem to play a character with Str"?????? huh? Why not? Really.... how hard could it be? "I always end up playing characters with high Int and Chr" "I have high Chr myself." It seems obvious that you are just attempting to play YOURSELF, or, rather, your Perceived Self. Because, if that is all you play every time.... you are probably NOT very smart OR charismatic to others. You are just in a rut.... and asking for help from US .... to dig the rut deeper. Sheesh, what an ego... Actually, had you of read the question, I was asking what I could do to milk as much mechanical benefit from an ability score. A rut denotes a negative experience, and I enjoy playing High Int, High Cha PC's. So yes, let's leave the personal attacks out of this. It isn't becoming of a spoogemonkey. And, fyi, my percieved self wouldn't use anything as primitive as a weapon. I'd be able to talk you out of fighting, become your best friend, and let you do all the fighting for me. My tongue is sharper than any sword, I jsut choose not to use it in fear of violating the CoC. Which, btw, you have done. And since my "percieved self" is a paladin... *alerts WiZo's*
ORC_Tuhteth 11-24-05, 08:29 PM	Guys, remember to keep your posts polite and constructive -- making personal comments about other patrons is neither, so please avoid doing so in the future. (I don't want to have to get my Rancor out of its cage, so do both of us a favor. :) )
Shazarn 11-24-05, 08:52 PM	hey, spoogemonkey, want some ice for that burn? (sorry that was mean)