cheatin... [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

cheatin... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FoxYerSox
05-11-07, 06:31 AM uhg...this sucks. me, and my two DM buddys have noticed that our best friend is cheating on his rolls. stats, HP, skill checks, anything thats VERY important. everyones afraid of approching him on it, because he's like the most friendly guy in the world...he just likes to be the best. we've all tried watching him and caught him a few times, but elts just say his slight of hand and bluff are very high irl x.x he'll quickly pick up his dice to add it up and give us the result. we play on the ground in my living room, so some times you have to pick up your die to see. it hasnt really effected the game to badly just only in the way for our DM's (thye switch) because basicly he's the greatest hero that ever lived x.x he outshines everyone. whats a good way to deal with this?
Manic Man
05-11-07, 06:43 AM Ok since you want to handle this and the three of you are in it together, try a little staged play.

Have one of your buddies say he rolled a critical then have your second buddy say that he only rolled a (some number) because he saw it.

Tell everyone at the table that to prevent such things happening, you as the DM will have to see each roll the players make.

If you pull this off well, it will stop the guy from cheating further, make him non defensive about his cheating and calm a potentially troublesome situation
Gideon_Gideonson
05-11-07, 06:47 AM That's one of the best ideas I've on these boards, Manic Man.
molten_dragon
05-11-07, 06:47 AM I would say the easiest way is to just make a new rule that all dice rolls must be made in the open and the DM must see the result before they are picked up, otherwise they don't count. That means Hit Dice and Stat rolls during character creation and leveling as well. If you play on carpet and it's hard to tell what the result is, just put down one of the many hardback books I'm sure are floating around among the group and roll on it. This has be benefit of being fair since everyone has to follow the same rule. There are other ways to deal with it, but since the guy is your best friend, this one involves the least conflict. If that doesn't work for some reason, I would try just talking to the guy outside the game. Tell him that you know he's been fudging rolls, and you'd like him to quit because his character is outshining everyone else's and it's not as fun for rest of you. If he's really a good friend, he should listen.

Good luck
FoxYerSox
05-11-07, 06:52 AM wow guys thanks. ill try that =D i was expecting alot of "Call him out!" and "Drop him!" thanks guys =3
Teydyn
05-11-07, 07:39 AM "Call him out!", "Drop him!

Dont want to disappoint you.. =)

You could roll in a box from a tabletop game or something. Even ground and the dice cant roll "away". Otherwise the ideas are good.
goawayugh
05-11-07, 11:21 AM You could roll in a box from a tabletop game or something. Even ground and the dice cant roll "away".

If we are not all able to fit at the table, that's what I do. It works REALLY well.
kelvinaw273
05-11-07, 12:10 PM I recommend a large tray to roll your dice in.
RobbyPants
05-11-07, 12:31 PM Yeah, as a general rule, during these types of situations, up-front is the best way to go. Passive-aggressive tactics usually end up making things worse. I'd talk to the player and/or the DM about it. Try the player first, and if it persists, then go to the DM.

Of course, if the DM does nothing, then you have an entirely different problem on your hands. I suppose you could follow suit at that point, and lie about all your own stats to gain equal footing. Granted, if it got to this point, I'd probably just leave the game rather than stoop to that level...
Whisper_Swiftblade
05-11-07, 09:41 PM there are calculators that you can have randomly generate numbers for you, they are in some ways quicker than dice (that is when you have high lv pcs doing 20dXs), and there is no way to fudge a roll with one because even if the dm is not pushing the buttons he can still see the old resaults when he is.
celtredleg
05-11-07, 10:26 PM Ok since you want to handle this and the three of you are in it together, try a little staged play.

Have one of your buddies say he rolled a critical then have your second buddy say that he only rolled a (some number) because he saw it.

Tell everyone at the table that to prevent such things happening, you as the DM will have to see each roll the players make.

If you pull this off well, it will stop the guy from cheating further, make him non defensive about his cheating and calm a potentially troublesome situation

I have DMed for years, and faced this problem a number times. This is the best solution I have heard yet. Way to go Manic Man.
Alric
05-12-07, 12:44 AM Ok some times people fudge a little, some times people miscount or have their sheet off a couple points. If a person is out right cheating though, I say get rid of them. That doesn't mean you cant be friends, just dont play games with them. They are a cheater.
Thubby
05-12-07, 12:55 AM confront him, just dont be mean or aggressive about it. just sit down and tell him, as a group, you know he's been fudging rolls (using cheat or cheater tends to hurt feelings, but thats up to you) and you want it to stop.
its quick, largely painless, and has 0 chance of being misunderstood. depending on what this guy is like, he might appreciate you being direct.

i dislike passive ways largely because they are too frail. Manic's idea could result in your cheater thinking the fake cheater/bumbler is a cheat, and negative feelings can ensue (its hipocritical but it happens)
Salla
05-12-07, 07:05 PM We had a cheater once in a game I was in. He accidentally left his dice at the game one night and we 'checked' them ... they weren't loaded. One night, after he went on a 'lucky streak', I rolled a natural 20 right in front of him, and declared ...

"I missed."
He went slackjawed. "But ..."
"Well, your dice are pretty hot, and it's no fun when it's too easy."

It's amazing how many mid-level rolls he got after that. :)
InterSilva
05-13-07, 04:06 PM I confronted a player (we'll call him Jim) in my group about his stats, which were way overpowered for our 15 14 13 12 10 8 array, and he tried to defend them etc etc, so I talked to the DM (we'll call him Bob) about it, and Bob said to me "I'm sure they (his stats) are. Jim gets special Jim save DCs for his special Jim stats." I let it be at that.
Krusk
05-13-07, 09:35 PM You could always just play it up.

no matter what he does let it be a success.

Then have him always deal max damage.

Then let him know that he has won, so the game has ended.

Then you can explain that you are using dice because you want the game to have a random outcome on occasion in order to build up excitement. It is no fun to always succeed all the time. If you are watching a movie and already know the hero gets out in the end, it sort of kills the suspense. Ask him not to do it.
forsaken1111
05-14-07, 11:33 AM You could always just play it up.

no matter what he does let it be a success.

Then have him always deal max damage.

Then let him know that he has won, so the game has ended.

Then you can explain that you are using dice because you want the game to have a random outcome on occasion in order to build up excitement. It is no fun to always succeed all the time. If you are watching a movie and already know the hero gets out in the end, it sort of kills the suspense. Ask him not to do it.

Yeah, he could do that. But see, there are three problems...

1. They're friends. Its just a game, not worth risking a friendship over.

2. Doing that, there is a very good chance the friend will feel ambushed and will probably get really angry.

3. The OP, unlike you, doesn't sound like a complete dick.
Krusk
05-14-07, 03:27 PM Yeah, he could do that. But see, there are three problems...

1. They're friends. Its just a game, not worth risking a friendship over.

2. Doing that, there is a very good chance the friend will feel ambushed and will probably get really angry.

3. The OP, unlike you, doesn't sound like a complete dick.

guess my friends can take a little more crap than some people? i admit that is a harsh response, but still gets the point across clearly.

FYI for future reference that last comment is borderline flame, and you should probably watch that on here. some people aren't as willing as i to ignore it.
forsaken1111
05-14-07, 03:51 PM FYI for future reference that last comment is borderline flame, and you should probably watch that on here. some people aren't as willing as i to ignore it.

Glad you found it in your heart to ignore my oh-so-harsh words.

I tend to actually be nice to my friends so your suggestion just seemed overly harsh to me. Calling someone out like that would be a really confrontational thing to do, and I would call anyone a dick who did that to a 'friend'. No personal offence intended to you.
Phrennzy
05-14-07, 05:08 PM Jim gets special Jim save DCs for his special Jim stats.

:rofl:
igotsmeakabob!!
05-14-07, 05:18 PM Assuming you haven't already fixed your problem, I have another idea. Just bring it up, either when you're alone or with the group. Don't know his name, lets call him Bill. "Bill, I have to tell ya... we know you're cheating in D&D. No, no, we made sure we were right. Rolling, your stats, skills (whatever the problem is), we made sure. Its fine, don't worry about it, we'd just appreciate it if you'd stop. I know, its tempting. You fudge a roll here, you put an extra point there, it happens, everyone is tempted to do it. If you tell me right now, that you'll stop, I'll believe you and we won't bring it up again. Its cool."

I think that most people, when called out on it in a polite and non-harsh way, would stop. I don't think they're doing it out of disrespect, just because 'a few points here and a fudged roll there' doesn't really hurt if no-one notices.

That should fix the problem. Unless he's an ass, but I don't get that from your post.
FoxYerSox
05-14-07, 05:40 PM thanks for all the feedback. for the time being it seems his uberness has stopped. so hopefully he either read this thread or our DM actually talked to him about it alone. we also found out that alot of it is just him taking advantae over every loophole to make his guys super crazy like his dwarf who has a -1 suit of fullplate without having it mithirl (class skill that knocks off 2 from the pen. i think. its a custom class) so he's a optimizer to the full extent of the word. but once again thats for everyone who offered help. ^.^\V/
Azog_the_Firvin
05-14-07, 08:50 PM We had a player like that in our game. He would roll and cup his hand around it, then pick it up to eyeball it closely, giving it a little rotation from time to time if he didn't like the number that came up. This was in a non d20 game system where certain results were basically 'you have to make a new character'. It was particularly blatant when he got a good roll and he kept his hands clear of the die to show it off. I moved to sit next to him, hoping that blatantly watching him would force him to be honest, but it didn't help. He started rolling in a dice cup and would peek before showing his roll off. Some rolls, he had to pick up the die in his hand to show, others he'd just lift the cup. I still caught him turning a couple.

It was very frustrating because our DM didn't care. "As long as he's having fun, I don't mind," the DM told me when I asked him. The other players had spotted the cheating but didn't want to confront the guy, who was hosting our games.

I finally left the game and started roleplaying on an online D&D game.
pmurray@bigpond.com
05-14-07, 11:14 PM Chaeting on dice rolls is like moving pieces around arbitrarily when playing chess. You may "win", but you have not been playing chess.
FntsyWlkr
05-15-07, 03:23 PM I have to agree, that being passive aggressive is not the correct way to go. Although "calling him out" brings with it some confrontational connotations, there are ways to bring up the issue without making them feel like a turd.

I have a way of bringing things up, very loudly and in the moment ... but it comes off as a joke ... very much disarming any sense of conflict.

If this person is your friend, respect the friendship enough to want to work on it, and resolve the issue ... as opposed to blur the issue up. And maybe you want to lead into it with that. "If we didn't like you, we would just stop talking to you. But we want to continue to play with you because we like _____, ____, and _____ about you."
LCD2YOU
05-15-07, 03:47 PM Ok since you want to handle this and the three of you are in it together, try a little staged play.

Have one of your buddies say he rolled a critical then have your second buddy say that he only rolled a (some number) because he saw it.

Tell everyone at the table that to prevent such things happening, you as the DM will have to see each roll the players make.

If you pull this off well, it will stop the guy from cheating further, make him non defensive about his cheating and calm a potentially troublesome situation{sarcasm=FULL}That's the most limp-wristed, wimpy, milequetoast, non-manly way I have ever seen on this board and I've seen some very "gender questionable" things said on this board.{/sarcasm}

I'll have to use it if I ever see cheating again.

(Edit)Oh yeah.

Kick him out!

Take his dice and use a sledge on them!

In a game store with other gamers, point out he cheats!

Better yet, combine all three at the same time!

:D
Skrimshaw
05-20-07, 07:24 PM The solution to this problem and many others at the gaming table is:
The Pop-o-Matic Bubble

http://www.tlchicken.com/view_story.php?ARTid=2088

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FoxYerSox 05-11-07, 06:31 AM	uhg...this sucks. me, and my two DM buddys have noticed that our best friend is cheating on his rolls. stats, HP, skill checks, anything thats VERY important. everyones afraid of approching him on it, because he's like the most friendly guy in the world...he just likes to be the best. we've all tried watching him and caught him a few times, but elts just say his slight of hand and bluff are very high irl x.x he'll quickly pick up his dice to add it up and give us the result. we play on the ground in my living room, so some times you have to pick up your die to see. it hasnt really effected the game to badly just only in the way for our DM's (thye switch) because basicly he's the greatest hero that ever lived x.x he outshines everyone. whats a good way to deal with this?
Manic Man 05-11-07, 06:43 AM	Ok since you want to handle this and the three of you are in it together, try a little staged play. Have one of your buddies say he rolled a critical then have your second buddy say that he only rolled a (some number) because he saw it. Tell everyone at the table that to prevent such things happening, you as the DM will have to see each roll the players make. If you pull this off well, it will stop the guy from cheating further, make him non defensive about his cheating and calm a potentially troublesome situation
Gideon_Gideonson 05-11-07, 06:47 AM	That's one of the best ideas I've on these boards, Manic Man.
molten_dragon 05-11-07, 06:47 AM	I would say the easiest way is to just make a new rule that all dice rolls must be made in the open and the DM must see the result before they are picked up, otherwise they don't count. That means Hit Dice and Stat rolls during character creation and leveling as well. If you play on carpet and it's hard to tell what the result is, just put down one of the many hardback books I'm sure are floating around among the group and roll on it. This has be benefit of being fair since everyone has to follow the same rule. There are other ways to deal with it, but since the guy is your best friend, this one involves the least conflict. If that doesn't work for some reason, I would try just talking to the guy outside the game. Tell him that you know he's been fudging rolls, and you'd like him to quit because his character is outshining everyone else's and it's not as fun for rest of you. If he's really a good friend, he should listen. Good luck
FoxYerSox 05-11-07, 06:52 AM	wow guys thanks. ill try that =D i was expecting alot of "Call him out!" and "Drop him!" thanks guys =3
Teydyn 05-11-07, 07:39 AM	"Call him out!", "Drop him! Dont want to disappoint you.. =) You could roll in a box from a tabletop game or something. Even ground and the dice cant roll "away". Otherwise the ideas are good.
goawayugh 05-11-07, 11:21 AM	You could roll in a box from a tabletop game or something. Even ground and the dice cant roll "away". If we are not all able to fit at the table, that's what I do. It works REALLY well.
kelvinaw273 05-11-07, 12:10 PM	I recommend a large tray to roll your dice in.
RobbyPants 05-11-07, 12:31 PM	Yeah, as a general rule, during these types of situations, up-front is the best way to go. Passive-aggressive tactics usually end up making things worse. I'd talk to the player and/or the DM about it. Try the player first, and if it persists, then go to the DM. Of course, if the DM does nothing, then you have an entirely different problem on your hands. I suppose you could follow suit at that point, and lie about all your own stats to gain equal footing. Granted, if it got to this point, I'd probably just leave the game rather than stoop to that level...
Whisper_Swiftblade 05-11-07, 09:41 PM	there are calculators that you can have randomly generate numbers for you, they are in some ways quicker than dice (that is when you have high lv pcs doing 20dXs), and there is no way to fudge a roll with one because even if the dm is not pushing the buttons he can still see the old resaults when he is.
celtredleg 05-11-07, 10:26 PM	Ok since you want to handle this and the three of you are in it together, try a little staged play. Have one of your buddies say he rolled a critical then have your second buddy say that he only rolled a (some number) because he saw it. Tell everyone at the table that to prevent such things happening, you as the DM will have to see each roll the players make. If you pull this off well, it will stop the guy from cheating further, make him non defensive about his cheating and calm a potentially troublesome situation I have DMed for years, and faced this problem a number times. This is the best solution I have heard yet. Way to go Manic Man.
Alric 05-12-07, 12:44 AM	Ok some times people fudge a little, some times people miscount or have their sheet off a couple points. If a person is out right cheating though, I say get rid of them. That doesn't mean you cant be friends, just dont play games with them. They are a cheater.
Thubby 05-12-07, 12:55 AM	confront him, just dont be mean or aggressive about it. just sit down and tell him, as a group, you know he's been fudging rolls (using cheat or cheater tends to hurt feelings, but thats up to you) and you want it to stop. its quick, largely painless, and has 0 chance of being misunderstood. depending on what this guy is like, he might appreciate you being direct. i dislike passive ways largely because they are too frail. Manic's idea could result in your cheater thinking the fake cheater/bumbler is a cheat, and negative feelings can ensue (its hipocritical but it happens)
Salla 05-12-07, 07:05 PM	We had a cheater once in a game I was in. He accidentally left his dice at the game one night and we 'checked' them ... they weren't loaded. One night, after he went on a 'lucky streak', I rolled a natural 20 right in front of him, and declared ... "I missed." He went slackjawed. "But ..." "Well, your dice are pretty hot, and it's no fun when it's too easy." It's amazing how many mid-level rolls he got after that. :)
InterSilva 05-13-07, 04:06 PM	I confronted a player (we'll call him Jim) in my group about his stats, which were way overpowered for our 15 14 13 12 10 8 array, and he tried to defend them etc etc, so I talked to the DM (we'll call him Bob) about it, and Bob said to me "I'm sure they (his stats) are. Jim gets special Jim save DCs for his special Jim stats." I let it be at that.
Krusk 05-13-07, 09:35 PM	You could always just play it up. no matter what he does let it be a success. Then have him always deal max damage. Then let him know that he has won, so the game has ended. Then you can explain that you are using dice because you want the game to have a random outcome on occasion in order to build up excitement. It is no fun to always succeed all the time. If you are watching a movie and already know the hero gets out in the end, it sort of kills the suspense. Ask him not to do it.
forsaken1111 05-14-07, 11:33 AM	You could always just play it up. no matter what he does let it be a success. Then have him always deal max damage. Then let him know that he has won, so the game has ended. Then you can explain that you are using dice because you want the game to have a random outcome on occasion in order to build up excitement. It is no fun to always succeed all the time. If you are watching a movie and already know the hero gets out in the end, it sort of kills the suspense. Ask him not to do it. Yeah, he could do that. But see, there are three problems... 1. They're friends. Its just a game, not worth risking a friendship over. 2. Doing that, there is a very good chance the friend will feel ambushed and will probably get really angry. 3. The OP, unlike you, doesn't sound like a complete dick.
Krusk 05-14-07, 03:27 PM	Yeah, he could do that. But see, there are three problems... 1. They're friends. Its just a game, not worth risking a friendship over. 2. Doing that, there is a very good chance the friend will feel ambushed and will probably get really angry. 3. The OP, unlike you, doesn't sound like a complete dick. guess my friends can take a little more crap than some people? i admit that is a harsh response, but still gets the point across clearly. FYI for future reference that last comment is borderline flame, and you should probably watch that on here. some people aren't as willing as i to ignore it.
forsaken1111 05-14-07, 03:51 PM	FYI for future reference that last comment is borderline flame, and you should probably watch that on here. some people aren't as willing as i to ignore it. Glad you found it in your heart to ignore my oh-so-harsh words. I tend to actually be nice to my friends so your suggestion just seemed overly harsh to me. Calling someone out like that would be a really confrontational thing to do, and I would call anyone a dick who did that to a 'friend'. No personal offence intended to you.
Phrennzy 05-14-07, 05:08 PM	Jim gets special Jim save DCs for his special Jim stats. :rofl:
igotsmeakabob!! 05-14-07, 05:18 PM	Assuming you haven't already fixed your problem, I have another idea. Just bring it up, either when you're alone or with the group. Don't know his name, lets call him Bill. "Bill, I have to tell ya... we know you're cheating in D&D. No, no, we made sure we were right. Rolling, your stats, skills (whatever the problem is), we made sure. Its fine, don't worry about it, we'd just appreciate it if you'd stop. I know, its tempting. You fudge a roll here, you put an extra point there, it happens, everyone is tempted to do it. If you tell me right now, that you'll stop, I'll believe you and we won't bring it up again. Its cool." I think that most people, when called out on it in a polite and non-harsh way, would stop. I don't think they're doing it out of disrespect, just because 'a few points here and a fudged roll there' doesn't really hurt if no-one notices. That should fix the problem. Unless he's an ass, but I don't get that from your post.
FoxYerSox 05-14-07, 05:40 PM	thanks for all the feedback. for the time being it seems his uberness has stopped. so hopefully he either read this thread or our DM actually talked to him about it alone. we also found out that alot of it is just him taking advantae over every loophole to make his guys super crazy like his dwarf who has a -1 suit of fullplate without having it mithirl (class skill that knocks off 2 from the pen. i think. its a custom class) so he's a optimizer to the full extent of the word. but once again thats for everyone who offered help. ^.^\V/
Azog_the_Firvin 05-14-07, 08:50 PM	We had a player like that in our game. He would roll and cup his hand around it, then pick it up to eyeball it closely, giving it a little rotation from time to time if he didn't like the number that came up. This was in a non d20 game system where certain results were basically 'you have to make a new character'. It was particularly blatant when he got a good roll and he kept his hands clear of the die to show it off. I moved to sit next to him, hoping that blatantly watching him would force him to be honest, but it didn't help. He started rolling in a dice cup and would peek before showing his roll off. Some rolls, he had to pick up the die in his hand to show, others he'd just lift the cup. I still caught him turning a couple. It was very frustrating because our DM didn't care. "As long as he's having fun, I don't mind," the DM told me when I asked him. The other players had spotted the cheating but didn't want to confront the guy, who was hosting our games. I finally left the game and started roleplaying on an online D&D game.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-14-07, 11:14 PM	Chaeting on dice rolls is like moving pieces around arbitrarily when playing chess. You may "win", but you have not been playing chess.
FntsyWlkr 05-15-07, 03:23 PM	I have to agree, that being passive aggressive is not the correct way to go. Although "calling him out" brings with it some confrontational connotations, there are ways to bring up the issue without making them feel like a turd. I have a way of bringing things up, very loudly and in the moment ... but it comes off as a joke ... very much disarming any sense of conflict. If this person is your friend, respect the friendship enough to want to work on it, and resolve the issue ... as opposed to blur the issue up. And maybe you want to lead into it with that. "If we didn't like you, we would just stop talking to you. But we want to continue to play with you because we like _____, ____, and _____ about you."
LCD2YOU 05-15-07, 03:47 PM	Ok since you want to handle this and the three of you are in it together, try a little staged play. Have one of your buddies say he rolled a critical then have your second buddy say that he only rolled a (some number) because he saw it. Tell everyone at the table that to prevent such things happening, you as the DM will have to see each roll the players make. If you pull this off well, it will stop the guy from cheating further, make him non defensive about his cheating and calm a potentially troublesome situation{sarcasm=FULL}That's the most limp-wristed, wimpy, milequetoast, non-manly way I have ever seen on this board and I've seen some very "gender questionable" things said on this board.{/sarcasm} I'll have to use it if I ever see cheating again. (Edit)Oh yeah. Kick him out! Take his dice and use a sledge on them! In a game store with other gamers, point out he cheats! Better yet, combine all three at the same time! :D
Skrimshaw 05-20-07, 07:24 PM	The solution to this problem and many others at the gaming table is: The Pop-o-Matic Bubble http://www.tlchicken.com/view_story.php?ARTid=2088