Check out this crock [Archive] - Wizards Community

Check out this crock [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Martryn
09-15-04, 10:30 AM I'm not asking for advice or anything, but I just wanted opinions on this campaign that I'm in. There are three PC's. One is a wizard with spellfire, one is a hexblade, and I'm a cleric/necromancer. The DM thought that he was a little unbalancing when he gave the 1st level wizard spellfire. To balance that out, he thought that he would just go ahead and give everybody special abilities. Apparently our hexblade has been blessed by the goddess of luck. Not only does he get to roll two dice and keep the highest on every roll he makes, but on attack rolls, doubles are a threat as well. And poor little me? I got this crappy foresight thing that lets me have visions of the future, only it doesn't ever do anything for me and the DM constantly forgets to use it.

That's just the beginning. He made us all start as NPC classes, which means warrior, aristocrat, and expert. One of the first things we have to do is to break into this eigth level wizards tower. We were about third levels ourselves and we were trying to do it without a fight. No such luck. Apparently everything in his house has a silent alarm spell. As a free action the wizard can cast mirror image, and he does so, and manages to throughly thump our party into oblivion. He then makes good his escape. But apparently he was at least a little worried about us so he wizard locked the door behind him locking us in his bedroom. The DM then is surprised when our wizard doesn't know knock, so he says we spot a magical monacle that can detect magic as a free action and can, get this, cast knock once per day.

We make our way out and decide to try our luck in Myth Drannor (that's right its a FR campaign). We get there with no encounters and all of a sudden are ambushed by a party of epic level elves who take us prisoners for the night. The next day they ask us to go with them into the city. We get there and spend hours waiting to roll a single dice as he describes in words how the elves time and again kill all these demons that he made up. The one time that I cast a spell didn't penetrate SR and the hexblade's weapon wasn't properly aligned. We all felt so insignificant. The only good thing is that a couple of minutes before the session ended we managed to steal some treasure from an elven tomb. All I got was a spellbook full of low-level spells, but the hexblade picked up a minor artifact greatsword that had all these special properties and made him immune to this and that.

Getting out of the forest, we are met around our campfire by a ranger who claims to be on a diplomatic mission. He's going our way and so we offer to travel together. The second night we are ambushed by a horn dragon or something like that who beat the hell out of the ranger. Turns out down the road that the two are in league. We get in this huge battle where the three of us, now fifth level, face the ranger, the dragon, and the super powerful tiefling wizard. Apparently we were supposed to run. So that's the second encounter where we didn't even stand a chance. We are taking prisoner and later just "let go".

We then decide to go back to the teiflings house and deal with him once and for all. We are all invisible and managed to lure him outside. Our hexblade charges with the intent of grappling him, having a bloody belt that gives him these sort of bonuses. The wizard still gets of the mirror image and a blur spell before he gets there. He then polymorphs into a stone giant and kicks the hell out of the hexblade, only pausing to cast an antimagic field. This time, we did run away.

What do you guys think about that crap? The entire campaign we fought one encounter where we won, and that just barely to a well placed goblin ambush complete with a worg rider (third level, keep in mind). The rest of the encounters it was as if we weren't supposed to... encounter... the NPC's and I think that the DM had in his mind that there was no way that we would be able to kill, defeat, or even injure his carefully crafted NPC's.
Cyricist
09-15-04, 11:13 AM Sounds exciting to me.. but.. also a little unbalanced. I'd do what I did when I was in a similar campaign: quit and start my own group :)
Malavus
09-15-04, 11:20 AM It sounds as though your DM is either very young, very inexperienced, or more likely - both. It also seems likely that he has never actually played the game yet, or he would be hesitant to marginalize your characters so much. It sounds as though he is into telling a grandiose story, full of blood and thunder, excitement and all that. He just failed to take into consideration that 3rd level characters are not ready for that stuff yet. Needs to learn to take it down a notch or three. Encounters can be good without all the "power" trappings.

The fact that he let 3rd level characters get their hands on even a minor artifact indicates that he has no concept of balance.

My advice is this: Talk to him. Make suggestions, but try to be kind. The DM often puts in alot of work for a campaign, so make an effort not to be too harsh. Explain what you see as the difficulties with his style, and ask if there is anything you can do to help - such as making up example encounters that are appropriate and so on. Not that you would actually use those encounters in-game, but more as a template or measuring stick to go by. If he is reasonable, he will listen to you - provided the suggestions are given constructively. If he will not listen and continues to run his game this way, I suggest finding another group - as this DM is clearly interested only in storytelling, not roleplaying a game.

My 2 cp.
Martryn
09-15-04, 11:20 AM Done and done, but I liked my character and the way he was developing, just not the environment he was developing in.
orionm42
09-15-04, 11:28 AM Apparently our hexblade has been blessed by the goddess of luck. Not only does he get to roll two dice and keep the highest on every roll he makes, but on attack rolls, doubles are a threat as well.

That is, perhaps, the most unbalanced rule I have ever heard!! Your DM is asking for real trouble here. It will be very difficult for him to judge the appropriate CRs for monsters with a rule that inequitable.

I agree with Malavus. Your DM sounds pretty inexperienced. Sounds like he also broke one of the cardinal rules of DMing..."Don't let the PCs become spectators." I would encourage him to spend more time with the DM guide. Otherwise he will likely experience similar pitfalls in the future.
Arrowhen
09-15-04, 11:40 AM The DM then is surprised when our wizard doesn't know knock, so he says we spot a magical monacle that can detect magic as a free action and can, get this, cast knock once per day.
:rofl:

My favorite, though, is the way you make it all the way to fifth level only winning one encounter. How does that work? Does the hexblade's sword radiate XP or something?
Count Arioch the 28th
09-15-04, 11:59 AM Story awards. I give them out all the time in my game, because I don't have every adventure contain combat.
Arrowhen
09-15-04, 12:33 PM Only in this case it was more like "here's a reward for listening to the story of my KEWL EPIC LEVEL ELVES!!!"
Wil Harvey
09-15-04, 12:33 PM Story awards. I give them out all the time in my game, because I don't have every adventure contain combat.

The DM in question doesn't seem like one that would be giving out roleplaying xp.
Thorak
09-15-04, 01:01 PM D&D is a game where the characters are heroes. Any DM who forces the PCs to be lackeys to his uber-l33t mega-whozits is a selfish control-freak of a twit. Find a new DM, either within the group or in another.
JabberWocky
09-15-04, 01:07 PM Yeah, I end up in a game like this every so often. I've developed a sixth sense about them, and whenever I feel one coming on I play something nasty and as soon as the DM starts BSing us, I slaughter the party and quit.

But I'm a jackass.
FreeTheSlaves
09-15-04, 01:46 PM Yet another DM that has not read the DMG cover to cover.
oldmandm
09-15-04, 02:13 PM Ok then first of all. Was he smokin Crack at the time? :mymy: (a Joke for the humorless)
Second: when he comes down, ask him if he's ever read the Players Handbook, and retained any of what he read.
Third: Get him to read "AND" understand the DM guide.
Fourth: Get him to read it again because he obviously forgotten everything from when he read it the first time or lied and didn't read it at all.

Literally all these issues which many have already pointed out, are in the "DM Guide".

All i can say is WOW.... Well actually no i said more than that. :D
I'm reading the first post again in disbelief....

:eek:
Arrowhen
09-15-04, 02:16 PM Nah, he doesn't need to read the DMG. What he needs are typing lessons. See, what he really wants to do is to write crappy fantasy novels, only he can't type, so instead he has to use D&D to trick his audience into coming over to his house for story hour.
danielinthewolvesden
09-15-04, 07:20 PM :bow: :bow:

SO true!
Aerunation
09-15-04, 07:45 PM Ah... I remember middle school well:)
Rian Lightblade
09-15-04, 07:52 PM My opinion? Get a better DM or at least a more experienced one.
Martryn
09-15-04, 08:36 PM I love this little support group I have going.

A couple of things I didn't mention. I game with this guy a lot. He has pretty much every rule book known to man and can recall all those obscure rules. I think his problem is that he has never been a PC for more than a session or two. And he creates these NPC's that he falls in love with and spends hours going over their backstory and the like. Then he just can't let go.

This one time two years ago he dmed a game with a lot of the same players. It was a mini campaign and I played an aristocratic duelist, with two wizards and a fighter/ young age catagory dragon and we were all around level 10 (except the dragon and he was a third level fighter). Anyway, it was real similar and we only had one encounter in which we won against some gaurds. We were supposed to be hunting a black dragon that lived in this swamp. We literally had a three hour session that went like this:

Me: We travel north for the day.

DM: The bugs bite a whole lot, the water gets a little thicker, a little deeper. Make some savings throws. (We do) Now what?

Us: We camp for the night with these watches and then travel north the next day as well.

DM: You travel deeper into the swamp. You have to backtrack a lot. The bugs are unbearable. Everything you own is wet. Now what?

Us: We keep traveling north until we get to something new.

DM: You travel for weeks, and finally come out the other side.

Us: What about the dragon?

DM: You didn't find him this time.

Us: Well, we go back and look some more.

For three hours we did this. Was the dragon in the swamp? Yes. In fact the DM gave us a personal invite from the dragon to visit him and every now and then would drop a clue like a note stuck to a tree taunting us in one direction or another. I got so fed up I decided to flesh out my character more by describing precisely what he was having for breakfast and in what order. You don't even want to know what happened when we finally got to where the dragon's lair was.
Thorak
09-15-04, 08:53 PM Like I said. Power-monger. He likes to make you all dance on his puppet strings.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Arrowhen said. DMs like this want to tell a story, and they only get mad when PCs screw it up by doing something they didn't want. So they force the PCs to do what they want. If the story is that restrictive, go write it up as a book and stop inflicting it on your friends in the form of a D&D game. It's basically, as Arrowhen said, story time, instead of game time.

A good DM makes your character want to do what he wants them to do. Force is the province of the neophyte who doesn't understand things like "free will".
Lxarth
09-16-04, 03:39 PM I have played in games similar to this, and have run games a little like this. Its just inexperience, and the fact that the DM makes these really cool uber-NPC's and doesnt want to see all his hard work go down when the PC's kill them.

It took me a year once to quit a game I hated...the best part of the game was when me and another players were trying to figure out how to cook breakfast.

So I feel your pain.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Martryn 09-15-04, 10:30 AM	I'm not asking for advice or anything, but I just wanted opinions on this campaign that I'm in. There are three PC's. One is a wizard with spellfire, one is a hexblade, and I'm a cleric/necromancer. The DM thought that he was a little unbalancing when he gave the 1st level wizard spellfire. To balance that out, he thought that he would just go ahead and give everybody special abilities. Apparently our hexblade has been blessed by the goddess of luck. Not only does he get to roll two dice and keep the highest on every roll he makes, but on attack rolls, doubles are a threat as well. And poor little me? I got this crappy foresight thing that lets me have visions of the future, only it doesn't ever do anything for me and the DM constantly forgets to use it. That's just the beginning. He made us all start as NPC classes, which means warrior, aristocrat, and expert. One of the first things we have to do is to break into this eigth level wizards tower. We were about third levels ourselves and we were trying to do it without a fight. No such luck. Apparently everything in his house has a silent alarm spell. As a free action the wizard can cast mirror image, and he does so, and manages to throughly thump our party into oblivion. He then makes good his escape. But apparently he was at least a little worried about us so he wizard locked the door behind him locking us in his bedroom. The DM then is surprised when our wizard doesn't know knock, so he says we spot a magical monacle that can detect magic as a free action and can, get this, cast knock once per day. We make our way out and decide to try our luck in Myth Drannor (that's right its a FR campaign). We get there with no encounters and all of a sudden are ambushed by a party of epic level elves who take us prisoners for the night. The next day they ask us to go with them into the city. We get there and spend hours waiting to roll a single dice as he describes in words how the elves time and again kill all these demons that he made up. The one time that I cast a spell didn't penetrate SR and the hexblade's weapon wasn't properly aligned. We all felt so insignificant. The only good thing is that a couple of minutes before the session ended we managed to steal some treasure from an elven tomb. All I got was a spellbook full of low-level spells, but the hexblade picked up a minor artifact greatsword that had all these special properties and made him immune to this and that. Getting out of the forest, we are met around our campfire by a ranger who claims to be on a diplomatic mission. He's going our way and so we offer to travel together. The second night we are ambushed by a horn dragon or something like that who beat the hell out of the ranger. Turns out down the road that the two are in league. We get in this huge battle where the three of us, now fifth level, face the ranger, the dragon, and the super powerful tiefling wizard. Apparently we were supposed to run. So that's the second encounter where we didn't even stand a chance. We are taking prisoner and later just "let go". We then decide to go back to the teiflings house and deal with him once and for all. We are all invisible and managed to lure him outside. Our hexblade charges with the intent of grappling him, having a bloody belt that gives him these sort of bonuses. The wizard still gets of the mirror image and a blur spell before he gets there. He then polymorphs into a stone giant and kicks the hell out of the hexblade, only pausing to cast an antimagic field. This time, we did run away. What do you guys think about that crap? The entire campaign we fought one encounter where we won, and that just barely to a well placed goblin ambush complete with a worg rider (third level, keep in mind). The rest of the encounters it was as if we weren't supposed to... encounter... the NPC's and I think that the DM had in his mind that there was no way that we would be able to kill, defeat, or even injure his carefully crafted NPC's.
Cyricist 09-15-04, 11:13 AM	Sounds exciting to me.. but.. also a little unbalanced. I'd do what I did when I was in a similar campaign: quit and start my own group :)
Malavus 09-15-04, 11:20 AM	It sounds as though your DM is either very young, very inexperienced, or more likely - both. It also seems likely that he has never actually played the game yet, or he would be hesitant to marginalize your characters so much. It sounds as though he is into telling a grandiose story, full of blood and thunder, excitement and all that. He just failed to take into consideration that 3rd level characters are not ready for that stuff yet. Needs to learn to take it down a notch or three. Encounters can be good without all the "power" trappings. The fact that he let 3rd level characters get their hands on even a minor artifact indicates that he has no concept of balance. My advice is this: Talk to him. Make suggestions, but try to be kind. The DM often puts in alot of work for a campaign, so make an effort not to be too harsh. Explain what you see as the difficulties with his style, and ask if there is anything you can do to help - such as making up example encounters that are appropriate and so on. Not that you would actually use those encounters in-game, but more as a template or measuring stick to go by. If he is reasonable, he will listen to you - provided the suggestions are given constructively. If he will not listen and continues to run his game this way, I suggest finding another group - as this DM is clearly interested only in storytelling, not roleplaying a game. My 2 cp.
Martryn 09-15-04, 11:20 AM	Done and done, but I liked my character and the way he was developing, just not the environment he was developing in.
orionm42 09-15-04, 11:28 AM	Apparently our hexblade has been blessed by the goddess of luck. Not only does he get to roll two dice and keep the highest on every roll he makes, but on attack rolls, doubles are a threat as well. That is, perhaps, the most unbalanced rule I have ever heard!! Your DM is asking for real trouble here. It will be very difficult for him to judge the appropriate CRs for monsters with a rule that inequitable. I agree with Malavus. Your DM sounds pretty inexperienced. Sounds like he also broke one of the cardinal rules of DMing..."Don't let the PCs become spectators." I would encourage him to spend more time with the DM guide. Otherwise he will likely experience similar pitfalls in the future.
Arrowhen 09-15-04, 11:40 AM	The DM then is surprised when our wizard doesn't know knock, so he says we spot a magical monacle that can detect magic as a free action and can, get this, cast knock once per day. :rofl: My favorite, though, is the way you make it all the way to fifth level only winning one encounter. How does that work? Does the hexblade's sword radiate XP or something?
Count Arioch the 28th 09-15-04, 11:59 AM	Story awards. I give them out all the time in my game, because I don't have every adventure contain combat.
Arrowhen 09-15-04, 12:33 PM	Only in this case it was more like "here's a reward for listening to the story of my KEWL EPIC LEVEL ELVES!!!"
Wil Harvey 09-15-04, 12:33 PM	Story awards. I give them out all the time in my game, because I don't have every adventure contain combat. The DM in question doesn't seem like one that would be giving out roleplaying xp.
Thorak 09-15-04, 01:01 PM	D&D is a game where the characters are heroes. Any DM who forces the PCs to be lackeys to his uber-l33t mega-whozits is a selfish control-freak of a twit. Find a new DM, either within the group or in another.
JabberWocky 09-15-04, 01:07 PM	Yeah, I end up in a game like this every so often. I've developed a sixth sense about them, and whenever I feel one coming on I play something nasty and as soon as the DM starts BSing us, I slaughter the party and quit. But I'm a jackass.
FreeTheSlaves 09-15-04, 01:46 PM	Yet another DM that has not read the DMG cover to cover.
oldmandm 09-15-04, 02:13 PM	Ok then first of all. Was he smokin Crack at the time? :mymy: (a Joke for the humorless) Second: when he comes down, ask him if he's ever read the Players Handbook, and retained any of what he read. Third: Get him to read "AND" understand the DM guide. Fourth: Get him to read it again because he obviously forgotten everything from when he read it the first time or lied and didn't read it at all. Literally all these issues which many have already pointed out, are in the "DM Guide". All i can say is WOW.... Well actually no i said more than that. :D I'm reading the first post again in disbelief.... :eek:
Arrowhen 09-15-04, 02:16 PM	Nah, he doesn't need to read the DMG. What he needs are typing lessons. See, what he really wants to do is to write crappy fantasy novels, only he can't type, so instead he has to use D&D to trick his audience into coming over to his house for story hour.
danielinthewolvesden 09-15-04, 07:20 PM	:bow: :bow: SO true!
Aerunation 09-15-04, 07:45 PM	Ah... I remember middle school well:)
Rian Lightblade 09-15-04, 07:52 PM	My opinion? Get a better DM or at least a more experienced one.
Martryn 09-15-04, 08:36 PM	I love this little support group I have going. A couple of things I didn't mention. I game with this guy a lot. He has pretty much every rule book known to man and can recall all those obscure rules. I think his problem is that he has never been a PC for more than a session or two. And he creates these NPC's that he falls in love with and spends hours going over their backstory and the like. Then he just can't let go. This one time two years ago he dmed a game with a lot of the same players. It was a mini campaign and I played an aristocratic duelist, with two wizards and a fighter/ young age catagory dragon and we were all around level 10 (except the dragon and he was a third level fighter). Anyway, it was real similar and we only had one encounter in which we won against some gaurds. We were supposed to be hunting a black dragon that lived in this swamp. We literally had a three hour session that went like this: Me: We travel north for the day. DM: The bugs bite a whole lot, the water gets a little thicker, a little deeper. Make some savings throws. (We do) Now what? Us: We camp for the night with these watches and then travel north the next day as well. DM: You travel deeper into the swamp. You have to backtrack a lot. The bugs are unbearable. Everything you own is wet. Now what? Us: We keep traveling north until we get to something new. DM: You travel for weeks, and finally come out the other side. Us: What about the dragon? DM: You didn't find him this time. Us: Well, we go back and look some more. For three hours we did this. Was the dragon in the swamp? Yes. In fact the DM gave us a personal invite from the dragon to visit him and every now and then would drop a clue like a note stuck to a tree taunting us in one direction or another. I got so fed up I decided to flesh out my character more by describing precisely what he was having for breakfast and in what order. You don't even want to know what happened when we finally got to where the dragon's lair was.
Thorak 09-15-04, 08:53 PM	Like I said. Power-monger. He likes to make you all dance on his puppet strings. I wholeheartedly agree with what Arrowhen said. DMs like this want to tell a story, and they only get mad when PCs screw it up by doing something they didn't want. So they force the PCs to do what they want. If the story is that restrictive, go write it up as a book and stop inflicting it on your friends in the form of a D&D game. It's basically, as Arrowhen said, story time, instead of game time. A good DM makes your character want to do what he wants them to do. Force is the province of the neophyte who doesn't understand things like "free will".
Lxarth 09-16-04, 03:39 PM	I have played in games similar to this, and have run games a little like this. Its just inexperience, and the fact that the DM makes these really cool uber-NPC's and doesnt want to see all his hard work go down when the PC's kill them. It took me a year once to quit a game I hated...the best part of the game was when me and another players were trying to figure out how to cook breakfast. So I feel your pain.