Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lesliweird 01-10-06, 09:57 AM	I was just curious, who else here is a girl/chick/woman/lady? And how do you feel that's influenced your experience as a gamer?
High Octane 01-10-06, 10:18 AM	(note: Im not a chick) It is hard to tell who is a chick on these forums cause they tend to speak the same way as the dudes. I mean the most feminine poster I know of (with a pink horsie icon) is a man. (You know who you are.) Everyone else is mostly androgynous. Edit: Any people claiming to be women must report to me for personal gender inspection :D (Any blood curling screams that end with me chopping my hands off will be caused by those who fail said test.)
cambric 01-10-06, 10:39 AM	Nice one High Octane! :clap: I'm a guy, but have my daughters playing, they are currently 12 and 13. Unfortunently, there are not any females playing in my area. I've always gamed with my guy friends and I think it would be great to game with women; they have their own unique way of looking at things and I bet it's sometimes better than many of the guys. I know of several female gamers on the boards and it appears there are far more than those that have made it known they are women. Kudo's to them! Cam
The Phantom Flan Flinger 01-10-06, 12:01 PM	I've always played in mixed groups and I've never seen a player/DM treated any differently on the grounds of their sex. I suspect the only time it matters is where one of the people involved is concerned about the non-D&D implications of themselves (or perhaps their SO) spending social time in mixed company. If that is a big deal for a person it probably affects their whole life and is not just a gaming issue.
Rumple_Cragstan 01-10-06, 12:20 PM	Yeah, I'm also a guy. But I know more good female gamers than male ones. For the most part, I find that female gamers are more ninja-like in that nobody knows that they exist unless they want you to know that they exist. Most of them are tired/worried of creepy gamer guys hitting on them. And I must admit, its a fairly well-based fear. Hell, my ex-girlfriend (who was planning on joining game before her timetable got royally screwed at work) refused to go to the local gaming store unless I was with her, because she found it very creepy going there alone. But yes, they are more common (and more skilled) than alot of people realise.
GilaMonster 01-10-06, 12:32 PM	I'm female. Not sure how it's affected my game, I mean I have nothing to compare it to :D I like story and character development more than many of my fellow (male) players and now that I'm running a game I get frusstrated that noone seems to really care what's going on.
Callista 01-10-06, 01:10 PM	Culturally and perhaps even physically, men and women think differently. They are equally good gamers, in my experience; but they are different. Of course, the difference between genders only applies on average: One female is generally about as different from any other given female as from any given male. It's only when you look at them as a group that the similarities--slight, but there--start to come out. Women are: --less likely to be powergamers, but equally likely to be munchkins --more likely to use off-the-wall strategies, especially in battle or while exploring dungeons --less likely to become interested in D&D to begin with; my group is about a 60/40 split in favor of the guys (Why? Probably because it started among men. D&D among females, such as my all-girl group, is becoming increasingly common.) --favored classes will often be Rogues, spellcasters, or other Rp- or strategy-heavy classes --more verbal: Will describe what characters do at greater length, and have characters talk more often. Also good at negotiation/intimidation of NPCs. --more likely to want to negotiate with the enemy (while they're newbies: With experience, both men and women will do what their character would do) --more likely to enjoy the storytelling aspect of D&D, especially if it involves political intrigue or mystery solving --less likely to do annoying things like memorize monster stats, but more likely to do annoying things like insist on a shopping trip being role-played --less likely to play characters of opposite gender, but also less likely to play human characters All bets are off if the girl in question enjoys video games or computer games: She is quite likely to be a powergamer and to play non-RP-oriented characters. That's also true for guys; but for girls the difference is more striking, since the average girl will go for the story and the average guy will go for the strategy... Incidentally, "average" is simply the description of what happens when you look at large numbers of people. In this case, the averages are obtained from widely divergent people. It is extremely unlikely your particular female gamer will be anywhere near the average for her gender; it's just slightly more probable than it would be for a guy fit the same criteria.
Gailbraithe 01-10-06, 01:20 PM	Since I doubt anyone else will complain about them, I'll take this chance to rant a bit about female gamers. :rant: I've been gaming for twenty years, and have met surprisingly few female gamers. Maybe 1 in 20 gamers I've met is female. I've never had a female player in any of my long term campaigns (6+ months), and those few women I have played with were almost all Someone's Girlfriend rather than actual Chick Gamers. They tended to play support PCs who only supported their boyfriend's character, acted silly, and generally distracted me from the game by not taking it seriously. But that's nothing. It's the dedicated Chick Gamers that bother me. The vast majority of the dedicated Chick Gamers I've met were White Wolf LARPers, and thus obnoxious goth twits who desperately need to be ignored. A signifigant minority of the dedicated Chick Gamers I've met were Psychopath Players, far more (as a percentage) than amongst the Guy Gamer population, and thus needed to be avoided. Almost every dedicated Chick Gamer I've met was obsessed with sex (to a point I felt it disrupted the game, i.e. asking how large a minotaur's member is, etc.), and prone to far-too-frank discussions at the gaming table. Since many Chick Gamers are...less than desirable...this leads occasionally to that very uncomfortable scene where I have to tell a fat chick to stop talking about her sex life because I'm going to be nauseous - with one exception, every time I've ever been made to feel uncomfortable at a gaming table by too much sex, there was a woman present and insitigating. I don't know, this is a broad cultural thing, but I've always thought women were two or three times as bad as men when it comes to the "obsessed with sex" thing. I think we guys get a unfair rap there. I'm just syaing the only person I've ever met who actually owns (and wants to use, in game) the Book of Erotic Fantasy is a woman. Also I've never met a Chick Gamer who had the tactical sense God gave a horsefly. I'm not saying all women everywhere suck at tactics, I'm sure there's female Pattons out there, but I've never seen one. Seeing as I live for small-scale tactical combats, a tacitically ignorant player can drive me right up the wall. But the thing that annoys me the most is how desperately male gamers and the gaming industry cater to this microscopic part of the gaming population. Normal chicks simply don't play D&D. Accept it, move on. The kind of weird girls who do play D&D probably dig the chainmail bikini art even more than the average guy. I think it's sad that D&D never managed to have a Frazetta or Vallejo cover, and the primary reason: those (famous fantasy) artists work is "too sexy for D&D". It's inane. :rant:
Sybill 01-10-06, 01:49 PM	First of all, Gailbraithe, I want you to know that I understand why you probably came up with your conclusions (your personal experiences), but please realize that you're probably going to **** off a lot of girls who play d&d with such statements. Its not your past experiences I mind, its that you're lumping all gamer chicks together in a group that doesn't necessarily fit most of them. I mean, a lot of girls probably play with their friends as just one of the guys. That's pretty much how it goes in my group. Yes, I almost always play a female character (although my female changeling spends a lot of time as a guy to avoid social stereotypes), and I do like more RP-heavy characters as opposed to smash everything types. But we laugh and joke as a group of friends, not as a group of guys and THE GIRL (insert creepy music). I mean, I've even had situations where a guy joined the group because he was someone's boyfriend, and he was just as annoying as the "girlfriends" you describe. Just because you've had bad experiences, don't put all girls, or all "gamer chicks" into the category of people to be avoided. :D
Gailbraithe 01-10-06, 02:10 PM	First of all, Gailbraithe, I want you to know that I understand why you probably came up with your conclusions (your personal experiences), but please realize that you're probably going to **** off a lot of girls who play d&d with such statements. Its not your past experiences I mind, its that you're lumping all gamer chicks together in a group that doesn't necessarily fit most of them. I mean, a lot of girls probably play with their friends as just one of the guys. Oh, I'm sure. And yes, let me state clearly: I'm speaking only from personal experience, and in no way intend my comments to be taken as comdemnation of all Chick Gamers. I presume that, to some degree, it's just a matter of bad luck. I'm sure there are women out there who I could game with wityhout problems, I just haven't met them yet. And the peculiar problems I've noted with female gamers are problems I've not ever had with male gamers. I've never had a male player expect me to graphically describe sex for example (it's also worth noting that the only person I've seen defend that kind of behavior on these boards was a woman), and I've never had a male psycho player that could hold a candle to the female psycho players I've seen. I mean, I've even had situations where a guy joined the group because he was someone's boyfriend, and he was just as annoying as the "girlfriends" you describe. Just because you've had bad experiences, don't put all girls, or all "gamer chicks" into the category of people to be avoided. :D Not my intention. I'd rather my comments be viewed as an intentional balancing factor against all the hedged comments and clamorous support. Guys tend to rah-rah the concept of chick gamers without much thought. For the obvious reasons.
corcio 01-10-06, 03:36 PM	hey just a quick question how would i get a girl i know how to get involve with the game i play.....how did other girls get into it? what got you to start playing
corcio 01-10-06, 03:39 PM	WOW that was probably the worst writen response to anything EVER....i apologize
konrad_the_tall 01-10-06, 03:56 PM	Women are ok, but they shouldn't be allowed to DM or to play the party leader. Also they shouldn't in a party be placed in any position of responsibility becuse lets face it, they can't be trusted not to mess it up. <I'm assuming this was meant sarcastically; nevertheless, remember that sarcasm doesn't always translate very well in a post, so it's best to avoid sarcasm that could be literally interpreted as a CoC violation. (Or use [sarcasm] [/sarcam] tags so people know you're not serious. :P ) -- WizO the Hutt>
Darien_CR 01-10-06, 04:21 PM	Women are ok, but they shouldn't be allowed to DM or to play the party leader. Also they shouldn't in a party be placed in any position of responsibility becuse lets face it, they can't be trusted not to mess it up. It's for people like you that most girls are not gamers. :mad:
tarsia 01-10-06, 04:36 PM	Women are ok, but they shouldn't be allowed to DM or to play the party leader. Also they shouldn't in a party be placed in any position of responsibility becuse lets face it, they can't be trusted not to mess it up. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
LeiftheLucky 01-10-06, 04:37 PM	Ignoring Konrad's ridiculous post, I'm a guy that's been Dming for 20 odd years now, and my experiences with female gamers has been good. Sure they focus on different aspects than guys do, and that just helps make the game more interesting for everyone. The women in my group tend to put a little more thought into their actions; sometimes that's good (as a guy might just do the first crazy thing that comes to mind) and sometimes that's not so good (as swift, decisive action of any sort is occassionally the better choice). But my favourite thing about chick gamers, from a DM's perspective, is that they tend to give a better reaction to an in-game description, whether an emotional situation or an insanely frightening villain or monster. It helps bring the moment alive for everyone and engross them all my players in the story.
Crimson_Concerto 01-10-06, 04:42 PM	It's for people like you that most girls are not gamers. :mad: I'm farely certain that person was just being sarcastic. Anyways, about a third of the P+P RPG players I know are female, but only three of them play D&D, and only one of those playes 3.5. The group I currently DM is made up entirely of males, because the gaming girls we know are either at college this time of year or a few of them have moved away. That being said, I party made up entirely of entirely male characters is where I think the problem arrises. It just seems there's something lost from the experience, sort of like you can't have a good RPG or fighting videogame without a female character. I'm the only one who feels comfortable with my sexuality to play a female character (about half of my characters are female). It just so happens that my sexuality is gay. :D
JungeonJeff 01-10-06, 05:07 PM	(Overlooking a few of the ridiculous comments) I have only had a few experiences with female gamers (to be precise 3). One was the girlfriend of an existing player, and though her intensions were properly good, she was a little too dependant on one person at the table instead of taking initiative (This didn’t change after the 3 first sessions, after which she stopped). However the two other examples were girls that I had known for quite a while outside the gaming room, and they both also knew a couple of other male player. The thing that really made it an enjoyable experience (Sadly they have both left us for travelling the world), is actually the small difference that they had to the male gamers. The fact that they questioned thing or acts that the male part of the group wouldn’t blink about. This actually made the rest of the group consider situations that they would not have come into themselves. And they still stick to those experiences, even though we are without 'hormone-distracters' at the moment. :)
Millennium 01-10-06, 05:09 PM	I'm not a "chick gamer", but I married one. Best decision I ever made.
tarsia 01-10-06, 05:10 PM	*whew* Now that I have ahold of myself, I think I can post a response. Let me start out by staying that I am a) female, b) a gamer, and c) a DM. In about 7 years of gaming, I've only run across 8 other females who game. Seven because their spouse/boyfriend did - or at least if not for their spouse/boyfriend, I don't think they would have gotten involved. Some never developed much interest, a couple did. The 8th female who games that I've encountered seemed to be the exception. She wasn't involved with anyone in the game. She was there because she liked to game, and she was the best person to game with out of all the females I've gamed with. [This experts White Wolf gamers, of which I've experience some table top and much LARPing with. I hold white wolf gamers in a seperate category. And while I like a lot of the White Wolf world setting, I can't stand 99% of the White Wolf players, male or female.] About a year ago I started DMing, and so far it's been a great success - or at least no one's left and no one's complained to me or husband and everyone's having a good time. :D Our group needed a new DM - the other 4 DMs were either tired of DMing or didn't have the time/drive to put into maintaining campaign. Overall, I haven't noticed girls be any more RP-oriented or hulk-smash oriented than guys. There just seem to be less of them.
Count Arioch the 28th 01-10-06, 05:28 PM	I've met a few female gamers myself. A few were actual gamers, and I had no problems with them. The overwhelming majority wanted lonely guys to hit on them, and be the center of attention. Sorry, not doing it.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-10-06, 05:56 PM	Not a female here, but I've had the opportunity to play with quite a few of them (just lucky, I guess). I feel compelled to mention I have an enduring soft spot for female gamers, because I got my start years ago when a female friend invited me to check out the the group she played online with and try out if I was interested. She was a cavalry fighter by the name of Jayna Blademark, always carried the map, and was the unofficial party leader because she had the best head on her shoulders. She was my mentor and helped a lot when I'd run into trouble for my ignorance. We lost touch eventually, but on the off chance she ever comes by here: thank you, Joyce Parks, I am eternally grateful. You ruled. :bow:
Gworraent 01-10-06, 06:14 PM	Women are: --less likely to be powergamers, but equally likely to be munchkins --more likely to use off-the-wall strategies, especially in battle or while exploring dungeons --less likely to become interested in D&D to begin with; my group is about a 60/40 split in favor of the guys (Why? Probably because it started among men. D&D among females, such as my all-girl group, is becoming increasingly common.) --favored classes will often be Rogues, spellcasters, or other Rp- or strategy-heavy classes --more verbal: Will describe what characters do at greater length, and have characters talk more often. Also good at negotiation/intimidation of NPCs. --more likely to want to negotiate with the enemy (while they're newbies: With experience, both men and women will do what their character would do) --more likely to enjoy the storytelling aspect of D&D, especially if it involves political intrigue or mystery solving --less likely to do annoying things like memorize monster stats, but more likely to do annoying things like insist on a shopping trip being role-played --less likely to play characters of opposite gender, but also less likely to play human characters All bets are off if the girl in question enjoys video games or computer games: She is quite likely to be a powergamer and to play non-RP-oriented characters. That's also true for guys; but for girls the difference is more striking, since the average girl will go for the story and the average guy will go for the strategy... For those reasons, I need a female gamer. Someone besides my DM who understands RP-ing. As for my bolded statement, that is all too true. We have a gamer in our group, total noob. We've been playing for a very long time, he still cant level up his own character by himself. He's a munchkin and a powergamer who when he does on rare occasion attempts to Roleplay, he uses the same gritty musculine " I am allpowerful and will pwnz0r j00 with my 1337 sword !!!111" It's the same thing, he plays tons of video games that are very theatrical when they get into funky "attack combos" and stuff of that ilk. He tries to duplicate that effect by using the same horribly thought out onamonapeias over and over. I'd like a female gamer to balance this out, but then again I'd be embarrased if he was there. The only female gamer I've played with is our DM's younger sister, she is as bad or worse than the player I mentioned in my rant above. They both play "theatrical and violent" video games, and they watch of course, the all allusive...ANIME!!!
Herald@Large 01-10-06, 06:46 PM	I'm female, and I've played since the early days of 1st edition. Most of the other women I've played with were playing mainly because their husbands/boyfriends/whatever were playing. Two of these gradually learned to enjoy the game and became fairly good gamers. As for myself, I've seldom noticed anyone treating me differently because I'm female. Most DMs and groups I've played with quickly learn that I am there to play , not to hunt for a potential boyfriend or gossip about clothes or boy bands. Only once has a DM tried to treat me differently: he tried to rule that because I'm female, I had to play a female character. That got squashed when one of the other players pointed out that he was male and yet was being allowed to run a female character. :D And once when I was DMing, one player decided that my being female meant he could bully me and make all sorts of snotty and off-color wisecracks without consequences. One of the few players I've ever had to toss out ...
Ceirnian 01-10-06, 09:51 PM	I live in California and my group is all male at this point. The only times I've played with female gamers have been at Dundracon (which brought an interesting view to the games. It helped that the guys didn't try to hit on them constantly... that would have been annoying). Might just be they are rare out here for whatever reason.
Tyler Do'Urden 01-10-06, 09:52 PM	I'm female. Not sure how it's affected my game, I mean I have nothing to compare it to :D I'd be willing to dress in drag and join a group I've never met before in the name of Science.
TalonofTiamat 01-10-06, 10:31 PM	I've never met a female gamer. I wanted to have one in my last campaign that I started, but sadly I have a problem with approaching women. Also, I've never met anyone interested. I want a female gamer in my group because I think that a girl might have a different (and possibly more interesting) approach to the game. And I'm getting a bit tired of playing with the same guys over and over again. One more thing, I'm not sure if this is the right time to say this but it annoys me that almost every reference to a player in any book says "her" or "she".
Thurbane 01-10-06, 10:55 PM	I've played with a handful of female gamers - all in all, not a remarkably different experience than playing with guys. :)
Gworraent 01-10-06, 10:57 PM	I'm female, and I've played since the early days of 1st edition. Most of the other women I've played with were playing mainly because their husbands/boyfriends/whatever were playing. Two of these gradually learned to enjoy the game and became fairly good gamers. As for myself, I've seldom noticed anyone treating me differently because I'm female. Most DMs and groups I've played with quickly learn that I am there to play , not to hunt for a potential boyfriend or gossip about clothes or boy bands. Only once has a DM tried to treat me differently: he tried to rule that because I'm female, I had to play a female character. That got squashed when one of the other players pointed out that he was male and yet was being allowed to run a female character. :D And once when I was DMing, one player decided that my being female meant he could bully me and make all sorts of snotty and off-color wisecracks without consequences. One of the few players I've ever had to toss out ... Herald@Large, would you agree when people say that women are generally better RP-er's than male? Also, the people in my group are all in a group of friends and there are of course females in that group ( we are not TOTAL nerds) from your perspective how should we ask them to play. How do you think that they would react, I know them quite well, just not well enough in the terms of Dnd.
Morbid 01-10-06, 11:14 PM	I'm male, but I have a female player. She's the party leader over two guys, she's a rogue but could beat down the fighter and druid, and when it comes to roleplaying, you can alsmot see her characters face when she's speaking. Sometimes I almost want to believe she's going to pay me for the bow I just sold to her instead of slitting my throat for it. Then I realize I'm still DMing. She's a great gamer. Gail my friend... Watch your tongue. You're insulting more than females in your first post here.
GilaMonster 01-10-06, 11:21 PM	Women are ok, but they shouldn't be allowed to DM or to play the party leader. Also they shouldn't in a party be placed in any position of responsibility becuse lets face it, they can't be trusted not to mess it up. Ah, so glad you told me that. I will immediatly stop DMing and quit D&D (I GM one game and am unofficial party leader in the other) </sarcasm> That's a generalisation is I ever heard one, and one of the more offensive ones I've heard recently. Except for my long-time DM, none of the guys (read 'male players' ) I've gamed with are suitable party leaders. The couple who have tried made it painfully obvious that they were playing leader so they could be better than the others.
Avalongod 01-10-06, 11:29 PM	I'm the only one who feels comfortable with my sexuality to play a female character (about half of my characters are female). It just so happens that my sexuality is gay. :D That's a really interesting observation and I've seen some of that myself. As it happens I am 100% heterosexual male who enjoys playing female characters (about 50% of the time), but I have noticed that relatively few other male players do. About 15 years ago (during 2E) I played a female spellcaster and the DM was initially so uncomfortable about this he wanted my character to be female only because he/she had put on a girdle of masculinity/femininity (why that made him more comfortable I don't know). The DM did realize he was being ridiculous and relented and that character ended up being one of my favorite characters ever. No one else (that I know of) ever had an issue with me playing a female character, but I haven't seen too many other male players try it. I DM a group now where players are a bit more comfortable playing opposite gender characters, but I suspect they're a rarity. I think its all about the character concept. Sometimes female characters just work better for a particular idea, and sometimes male characters work better for a particular idea.
imperialjunkie 01-10-06, 11:42 PM	I'm female, and I've played since the early days of 1st edition. Most of the other women I've played with were playing mainly because their husbands/boyfriends/whatever were playing. Two of these gradually learned to enjoy the game and became fairly good gamers. As for myself, I've seldom noticed anyone treating me differently because I'm female. Most DMs and groups I've played with quickly learn that I am there to play , not to hunt for a potential boyfriend or gossip about clothes or boy bands. Only once has a DM tried to treat me differently: he tried to rule that because I'm female, I had to play a female character. That got squashed when one of the other players pointed out that he was male and yet was being allowed to run a female character. :D And once when I was DMing, one player decided that my being female meant he could bully me and make all sorts of snotty and off-color wisecracks without consequences. One of the few players I've ever had to toss out ... It's sad that you get some of this chauvenism. Suprises me in one sense. In other ways it doesn't. I have a female player in my campaign. She is learning the game, and her initial motivation was to be with her boyfriend (another player) and to hang out with the boys. Though she hasn't gotten into the rules as much as her gamer boyfriend (now husband), she is very creative in strategy. Her character does risky things that the rest of the boys don't have the balls to do. And she pays for it as she has been dropped more than any other character. In only one case was it because of poor strategy. Most of the time it is because she is not being backed up by her team mates. I'm very impressed with her tenacity as a player and her creativity. She's slowly growing into roleplaying, though this is not her strength. She's a great player and an asset to the group. She has been a very good friend for a long time, and it is a joy to share this game with both her and her husband. So my bottom line is that my female player is a player. Just like my four male players, she has strengths and weaknesses. I don't feel that any of them are due to her gender.
imperialjunkie 01-10-06, 11:48 PM	That's a really interesting observation and I've seen some of that myself. As it happens I am 100% heterosexual male who enjoys playing female characters (about 50% of the time), but I have noticed that relatively few other male players do. About 15 years ago (during 2E) I played a female spellcaster and the DM was initially so uncomfortable about this he wanted my character to be female only because he/she had put on a girdle of masculinity/femininity (why that made him more comfortable I don't know). The DM did realize he was being ridiculous and relented and that character ended up being one of my favorite characters ever. No one else (that I know of) ever had an issue with me playing a female character, but I haven't seen too many other male players try it. I DM a group now where players are a bit more comfortable playing opposite gender characters, but I suspect they're a rarity. I think its all about the character concept. Sometimes female characters just work better for a particular idea, and sometimes male characters work better for a particular idea. Totally agree with you. I also am a heterosexual male who likes to play female characters. Usually it is because no one else will and it adds some diversity. I once played a character in NWN online who was a female who had the beginnings of a romance with a male character. Both me and the other player were male. Didn't bother me a bit or threaten my sexuality. It was a lot of fun getting into character and pretending to be female. Did I say I was heterosexual? Just needed to remind myself. LOL. I need to talk to my wife... Honey can we talk?
Baned 01-11-06, 12:00 AM	I'm male, at least last time I checked. My fiance refuses to pick up a set of dice. My friend Luke's wife has shown mild interest in playing, but she's always working when we play. Another friend, Thane, his sister would like to watch before playing, but she seems interested a bit, too. I'd love to have a female gamer in the group, if for any other reason then to minimize certain PCs from flirting with every female NPC. A funny story came from flirting with NPCs, though. The character Loc (human sorcerer, played by Thane, mentioned above) kept trying to get to an NPC (Princess Sara, half-elf cleric). I have several NPCs fully statted for players that may want to give the game a shot. Well, I suggested Thane's sister play the NPC if she wanted to play, but then he realized that he would flriting with his own out-of-character sister.
Airsucker 01-11-06, 12:54 AM	Yes, we're out here, yes, you can get TMI from females as well as males and yes, I DM. Count Arioch: It's nice to see you not being a troll-butt on one of these threads. :D I have recruited amongst the friends that I know, female as well as male and the women I know can get into this sort of thing, but I don't end to hang out with normal women who are into shopping, makeup and all that crap. The funny thing is, I met my hubby over the gaming table, so I was never the gamer girlfriend. I RP'd because I wanted to in the first place.
Moon-Lancer 01-11-06, 01:02 AM	I play d&d and my dm is my girl friend. She is a good dm. My only creteq is that she sometimes doesn’t take cause and effect into play as much as I would like, and she is not that good at making challenging encounters. we have a 3 pc party, but because of her playing style, we can take crs at least 3 above our challenge rating. She also until recently has not given enough combats a day to get the 2 out of 3 spell casters low on spells to make it challenging. I know this is not because she is a girl though, because I know some girls on this forum that are cold and ruthless to their players, so I know its not a chick thing. I think our dm might allow things a bit too powerful in the campaign for the pc's, but she is really a common sense dm that tries to respect the rules. Sometimes before a game she will shoot ideas at me or ask me what kind of cr or monsters we can or cant take. Currently our pc's are going to hell to retrieve what we think to be a Tiamet Bahamit mix dragon that is going to be possessed by what we think is a demon or something (we are fighting a war on three fronts so the client to receive the egg could be anyone, but the deal is going down in hell.), and its kind of scary what she as been asking lately. Mostly things like " you will run if something is too powerful right?" I think the encounter in hell is going to be her going full out. In addition she tends to ask me about eq. I play a vop character, so I probably can answer questions about eq and wealth unbiased, because it won’t effect my character much at all. I think im playing as a second in command dm, that is in the dark, and doesn’t fully know the story and is not allowed to make any authoritative or command decisions, but when it comes to questions, She tends to ask me things in a way so i can only guess what it so come. I tend to let her know of our characters weakness and our strengths, and who is getting to much wealth or whatnot. She is really busy with school and work so i try to help her with things that involve d&d so she doesn’t have to spend extra time on things that I can do in my spare time. But let me tell you, She runs one hell of a game and one hell of a story. She is really receptive to the story, and ties our characters deeply into the plot, maybe too much, because I think she is afraid to kill us, but so far she hasn’t fudged, so we are playing good D so far. Once though My character almost died, and got to -9, but I got a potion just in the nick of time. She might have fudged that roll, but I cant be sure. Her games are fun and allow for lots of role-playing and combat is fun too, although sometimes its too easy, but when it is I let her know of things she can do to make things more challenging. Something that’s funny that I find most dm’s hate is scry, while this dm actually wants me to use it all the time, I sware she should just give it to me a spell like ability at will. I WANT THOESE LEVEL 4 SLOTS DAMIT. She uses it to reveal plot. Actually its kind of cool. I don’t know if this is because she is a girl or not, but she plays d&d as everything that has culture and born starts out natural. Chromatic dragons are not inherently evil, nor are drow. Actually drow are discriminated agenst because at one time long ago they had a kingdom under the earth and did horrible and evil things, and it follows them as a stigma everywhere they go. Especially the faith, who is a group trying to destroy all magic. Drow are a scapegoat because they are inherently magical (spell resistance) and currently hold the city of Alexandria. It has the largest magical library in the world.
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 01:20 AM	I am a female gamer. I've been RPing for around 8 or 9 years. I started playing White Wolf games online. I've only been tabletopping since August 2005, but I wouldn't give it up for anything (though I have given up online WW RP...too much drama). I find D&D to be far superior to WW as it is, and I've only been playing it for, oh, three months. I don't know that my gaming style is much different from my male friends. I enjoy combat a lot. I also enjoy a good story, both on the DM's side and developing my character before I play it. However, I'm still very wet behind the ears when it comes to D&D. It's actually frustrating because I want to DM, but I know I can't do that until I have hands-on experience with all classes, races, alignments and so on. A friend of mine, who is male, said that women play differently than men, but he couldn't give me a specific example or reason as to why. I think his basis was because we have different physiologies, which isn't a very good argument. :) My best friend is also a female gamer. I wanted to TT, and she was the only person I knew who would be interested. She's as much of a gaming geek as I am now. I know at least five other women who are interested or have gamed at some point in their lives, as well.
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 01:23 AM	I'd be willing to dress in drag and join a group I've never met before in the name of Science. Hahah! You'd still be male underneath the makeup and dress. :)
tsuyoshikentsu 01-11-06, 01:41 AM	I've had a rather unique experience: For a while, I DMed a group that was all girls, and had a guy come in. Now let me set a few things straight. I myself am a guy, and I enjoy a few humorous moments in the game. But there is really no way around it: he ruined the game because of traits I see in guy gamers, and generally not in girl gamers. He came in, and instead of the gripping, roleplay-not-rollplay campaign it had been before, it now was all about sh*ts and giggles, jokes about his ridiculous character, and "when can we FIGHT something?" This spread to the rest of the group, until now only one real RPer is left, and the group hasn't met in over a month. To put it bluntly: I'd take a group of girls over a group of guys any day. Well, except for a group of sex-crazed girls. NOTHING derails a campaign like one of those.
Tyler Do'Urden 01-11-06, 02:09 AM	Hahah! You'd still be male underneath the makeup and dress. :) Yeah, but if I do it right, they won't know that. It'll be like that 80's movie where the dude dyed himself black to get into college and James Earl Jones was the angry professor. People will react to me differently and I'll get some idea what it's like to be a female gamer. Or I'll get hit on. And I'll be like, "Dude, I'm a dude," and he'll be all, "I know," and I'll be like, "...I see." Then the running.
TheChilliGod 01-11-06, 02:14 AM	Male I am, girlfriend I do not have, homosexual I am not, and one girl (out of 7 total players) in the same D&D session as me I have had, and even then, it was for one session. However, that one female gamer (who also happens to be a regular friend of mine) knows about 3 or 4 other female gamers, two of whom I have met. 1 of them is possibly sex-crazed (judging from someone else's point of view, just something about a bard with a whip & no proficiency with it.), I'm positive the other 3 of them are just plain crazy (you know, talking about llamas and bunnies and making those funny little gestures with their hands about something I never know about. Unless that's supposed to be usual...) and all of them are into anime, vampires, and role-playing over powergaming. Even the gamer chick who is into video games prefers to play a non-powergamed character. And only 1 gamer chick currently has a boyfriend. (and she didn't get into D&D because of it.) Has it had a serious impact in my session? No, considering I've only played one session with a gamer chick. Although, I am looking foward to another session with her, since she is a very good roleplayer. I guess that there is no generalized girl gamer. It's all based on the gaming environment, and dumb pot luck.
TheChilliGod 01-11-06, 02:16 AM	Yeah, but if I do it right, they won't know that. It'll be like that 80's movie where the dude dyed himself black to get into college and James Earl Jones was the angry professor. People will react to me differently and I'll get some idea what it's like to be a female gamer. Or I'll get hit on. And I'll be like, "Dude, I'm a dude," and he'll be all, "I know," and I'll be like, "...I see." Then the running. The scenario'd be more like Sorority Boys, methinks? :D
Asciiman 01-11-06, 04:07 AM	Since many Chick Gamers are...less than desirable...this leads occasionally to that very uncomfortable scene where I have to tell a fat chick to stop talking about her sex life because I'm going to be nauseous After reading this I laughed so hard I think I peed myself!
Hasmead_Guy 01-11-06, 07:08 AM	I never really thought about it before, about my experience with female gamers. The last one I gamed with was really good, if inexperienced. She played her character, gave it quirks and everything, and did her job as a cleric. The other ones were dumb like rocks! Seriously, how hard is it to understand this concept- "don't kill ALL of them, because I want to question at least one of them." HER:"But what are you talking about? We're fighting right now!" "Yes, I can see, but all I'm saying is leave one alive so we can question him!" HER:"But we're fighting right now!" "Yes but..." I realized that I wouldn't get through to her. I don't understand what's so ******* hard about what I was trying to communicate. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Another spoke so slow she was like a retarded person. She was busy flirting with our rogue and never knew what was going on. :bored: When it came to her turn, she took forever.
Lana "Silvertongue" 01-11-06, 08:15 AM	I am a gaming chick, I play in a group that is normally male. We have three other ladies that play occasionally and each of us have our own quirk. I am naturally quiet, so I normally deal with the micromangment issues like selling and mantaining loot lists and their location on people (for weight issues) and some of the charasmatic stuff. Another girl is very much into the roleplay aspect, the dice and mechanics are coming to her steadily. We just need to nip her boyfriend in the butt and let her learn rather than do everything for her. A third is the quirky bard player who has great moments with wands of color spray. She plays very memorable gnomes, I'll never be able to match her. The fourth is joining a very high powered campaign for the first time and she is useful, though still very new and shy. She needs time to grow, an come into her own. I think one of the largest problems for many 'chick gamers' is trying to sneak their actions edgewise among their male cohorts. The guys I game with have extremly forceful personalities and it is difficult for me to get my rpging in until the others have finished what they wanted to do.
digoraccoon 01-11-06, 08:20 AM	On average, I'd say the female gamers I've played along side have been more gutsy then the males. At the same time I admit I would usually follow the females because I really do believe in that theory of "Women's Intuition" and I'd survive the higher risk factor. :) Well, usually I survive. Women also tend to have a higher potential ferocity when they fight. Stay on their good side! :eek:
RedWizard 01-11-06, 09:01 AM	Since many Chick Gamers are...less than desirable...this leads occasionally to that very uncomfortable scene where I have to tell a fat chick to stop talking about her sex life because I'm going to be nauseous ROTFL!!! That one had me busting up at work this morning! My experiencence with girl gamers, they fit into 3 groups: 1) They are part of a package with their boyfriends who are the actual gamers (and based on how often I have read this in earlier posts I think we can all agree the vast majority fit into this group) and they tend to be a supporting or even secondary character to him. Then they stop showing up after several games because it's really more his thing then hers. 2) They are way too into it. These are the chicks who can never get out of game mode. Outside of the game this is the one who will want to get the subject back to the game and even run pseudo-sessions. They are also prone to asking for unicorns or being a princess. Lastly they can have a tendency to start making snap decisions for other player's characters. I had to tell one girl more then once and finally talk to her apart from the others about trying to run other players characters. 3) Perfectly normal players. Smart, funny and overall good to both play and hang out with. I have a new DM who is a girl and she is more or less like one of the guys from what I have seen. Now for male gamers, well thats for another thread, but for you guys who need to be the star of the game (you know who you are) your thread has likely already been posted.
babysamurai 01-11-06, 09:14 AM	The only problem with most female gamers I've met/seen, is that they are usually not the type of people you would want to socialize with in any situation. Aside from the - not having a neck, stunty limbs and dubious bathing habits, they are often socially retarded as well. Now please, I don't mean all. Years ago I DM'd a campaign, and my buddy's wife played and she turned out to be one of the greatest players I've ever had. ...it's the dedicated female gamer to look out for...you know - greasy hair and talks about Spawn and death.
RedWizard 01-11-06, 09:46 AM	not having a neck, stunty limbs and dubious bathing habits, they are often socially retarded as well. you know - greasy hair and talks about Spawn and death. You've just described 80% of the male gaming population.
babysamurai 01-11-06, 09:55 AM	You've just described 80% of the male gaming population. True - just add a beard, overweight-ness, and the 40 year-old virgin that still lives with his parents thing. ...worst session ever!
RedWizard 01-11-06, 10:02 AM	Haha, it's sad but true.
yeknom 01-11-06, 10:02 AM	Women are ok, but they shouldn't be allowed to DM or to play the party leader. Also they shouldn't in a party be placed in any position of responsibility becuse lets face it, they can't be trusted not to mess it up. Can you say Taliban?
babysamurai 01-11-06, 10:12 AM	Can you say Taliban? Yeah, I just went to a Muslim strip bar and the men kept on yelling "Show us your face!". ...no offense intended to anyone of any religion/nationality/sexuality or creed.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 11:16 AM	Y'know, I think it's kind of funny that the original post was "who else here is a chick?" and so far I count over thirty people chiming in to say they're guys. I mean, not that you shouldn't, just that there's about a 5 to 1 girl to guy ratio response to a post about being a girl. I've been playing for a long time, though most of it intermitantly because I couldn't find a game and/or didn't want to play with people who I would not otherwise spend free time with if no D&D were involved. Occaisionally I have problems with guys in shops trying to explain twenty sided dice to me in slow, simple terms ("not like regular dice from monopoly, that only have six sides"), at which point I kind of want to punch them. I'd had the same problem buying comics before I found decent shops where I could have long, involved conversations about whether or not Grant Morrison is a crack baby. Because 3.0 came out while I was on hiatus I ended up coming in as both the chick and the person who didn't know the rules at the same time. Luckily (sort of) my buddy's girlfriend (and eventually wife) also played joined, and she never tried to learn, so I looked good. I DM now, and I'm on my first actual campaign instead of just one shots. I freely admit to not being as mechanically inclined as some of the guy gamers I know. I know guys who devote an awful lot of mental energy to maximizing their attacks of oppotunity, and I just can't bring mysef to do it. The closest I ever got was a tricked out Ranger/Sorceror, but she got a bit old because it got too easy to pick people off with no chance of them getting close. I like the stories and a good challenge, but more than that just I like hanging out with friends and doing something fun.
Sybill 01-11-06, 11:20 AM	2) They are way too into it. These are the chicks who can never get out of game mode. Outside of the game this is the one who will want to get the subject back to the game and even run pseudo-sessions. They are also prone to asking for unicorns or being a princess. Lastly they can have a tendency to start making snap decisions for other player's characters. I had to tell one girl more then once and finally talk to her apart from the others about trying to run other players characters. Time out... why is asking for unicorns or princesshood considered a trait of a way too into it kinda girl? I myself have asked to be proclaimed princess on at least two occasions... I think that it would fit my character (a warforged sorc4/psion7/cerebremancer10). [/sarcasm] But seriously, unicorns and princesses are more a girly-girl kinda thing than a way too into it gamer-chick thing.
Dragen White 01-11-06, 12:47 PM	I know this has nothin to do with the post but i thought id add it in, we have a girl who played in one of our groups and chased all the experianced players away, because it was absolutly annoying that she was dating one of the other PC, so guess what they were married in game and always flirting with PDA at the table, and always trying to find a way to be cutsie with each other even in game, it was disgusting, and it made alot of us upset, not that we didnt care about them liking each other, but we wished they would have left it out of game, PDA bad, and im not sure if that has ever happened with any other groups, but thanks to that, when our dm games with them alot of us refuse to play with them, practicly giving the DM two seperate groups now.
Illithid13 01-11-06, 01:14 PM	I'm a Male who is completely 100% Heterosexual, yet I'm comfortable enough to paly a female character. I see it more as a challenge to better understand the opposite sex (if that is possible). As for my experience with female gamers, I've gamed with 9. The range of age has gone from 34 to under 18 (guessing 16 or 17, but possibly younger). All of whom I've gamed with in the the past year. As far as skill and tallent goes, they range from uber (one who is currently DMing a campaign) in imagnation and RPing skill, to "Just doing it because <insert then name of a guy they have a crush on> is doing it." Orignally I was of the mind set that female gamers were myths. Then it changed to "they're all freeks," but over the past 3 years (the time in which I've RPed with any Female,) I have come to realize that there is little difference between them and guy gamers. None of the wemon/girls that I game with are freeks, quirkie maybe, but aren't we all? One of the young ladies that I game with currently was just there because she's best friends with the DM (the Uber RPer). But recently, she has been making an effort to understand how the game works and trying to learn the game mechanics outside of the dice rolling. This has shown me that the ones that are there because their friend/boyfriend/husband is there shouldn't be written off. I seriously thought that she wouldn't last, but has proven me wrong. As a result of my gaming experience with these 9 ladies, I have found that I now have a more open mind about the 2 genders and roleplaying.
GilaMonster 01-11-06, 02:12 PM	I know this has nothin to do with the post but i thought id add it in, we have a girl who played in one of our groups and chased all the experianced players away Why didn't you ask her not to come back?
Gailbraithe 01-11-06, 02:48 PM	You've just described 80% of the male gaming population. It's more like 10% of the male gaming population. That's been my experience. Which is sort of what I was getting at with my post - while I'm sure there are many relatively normal* women who play RPGs, but it seems to me (and clearly to some other people), that the ratio of relatively normal women to psycho hose beasts is far more skewed than the ratio of relatively normal men to hideous unhygenic frakoids. *I think relatively normal is the best any gamer of any gender can hope for.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 02:53 PM	It's more like 10% of the male gaming population. That's been my experience. Really? 'Cause I'd call it about 40% on either gender, and I've never known a girl gamer who didn't know how to bathe.
Darth K'Trava 01-11-06, 02:54 PM	I'm a FEMALE gamer. Calling me a "chick" would only get one cussed out. :mad:
Darth K'Trava 01-11-06, 03:01 PM	Since I doubt anyone else will complain about them, I'll take this chance to rant a bit about female gamers. :rant: I've been gaming for twenty years, and have met surprisingly few female gamers. Maybe 1 in 20 gamers I've met is female. I've never had a female player in any of my long term campaigns (6+ months), and those few women I have played with were almost all Someone's Girlfriend rather than actual Chick Gamers. They tended to play support PCs who only supported their boyfriend's character, acted silly, and generally distracted me from the game by not taking it seriously. But that's nothing. It's the dedicated Chick Gamers that bother me. The vast majority of the dedicated Chick Gamers I've met were White Wolf LARPers, and thus obnoxious goth twits who desperately need to be ignored. A signifigant minority of the dedicated Chick Gamers I've met were Psychopath Players, far more (as a percentage) than amongst the Guy Gamer population, and thus needed to be avoided. Almost every dedicated Chick Gamer I've met was obsessed with sex (to a point I felt it disrupted the game, i.e. asking how large a minotaur's member is, etc.), and prone to far-too-frank discussions at the gaming table. Since many Chick Gamers are...less than desirable...this leads occasionally to that very uncomfortable scene where I have to tell a fat chick to stop talking about her sex life because I'm going to be nauseous - with one exception, every time I've ever been made to feel uncomfortable at a gaming table by too much sex, there was a woman present and insitigating. I don't know, this is a broad cultural thing, but I've always thought women were two or three times as bad as men when it comes to the "obsessed with sex" thing. I think we guys get a unfair rap there. I'm just syaing the only person I've ever met who actually owns (and wants to use, in game) the Book of Erotic Fantasy is a woman. Also I've never met a Chick Gamer who had the tactical sense God gave a horsefly. I'm not saying all women everywhere suck at tactics, I'm sure there's female Pattons out there, but I've never seen one. Seeing as I live for small-scale tactical combats, a tacitically ignorant player can drive me right up the wall. But the thing that annoys me the most is how desperately male gamers and the gaming industry cater to this microscopic part of the gaming population. Normal chicks simply don't play D&D. Accept it, move on. The kind of weird girls who do play D&D probably dig the chainmail bikini art even more than the average guy. I think it's sad that D&D never managed to have a Frazetta or Vallejo cover, and the primary reason: those (famous fantasy) artists work is "too sexy for D&D". It's inane. :rant: That's what you get for hanging around with larpers.... Not all women are like that. And flaming this thread is totally unwelcome. Go start your "anti-women gamers gripe and moan" thread elsewhere. :mad: Also, I call: http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/sfa3/blankaroll.gif
Darth K'Trava 01-11-06, 03:07 PM	Women are ok, but they shouldn't be allowed to DM or to play the party leader. Also they shouldn't in a party be placed in any position of responsibility becuse lets face it, they can't be trusted not to mess it up. :bored: :bored: :bored: And you're still single as a result of your sexism, right? People like this is why it's hard for women to want to game. Narrow-minded bigotry like this is totally uncalled for.
tarsia 01-11-06, 03:09 PM	I'm a FEMALE gamer. Calling me a "chick" would only get one cussed out. :mad: I don't really think it's that bad of a phrase. And though normally I wouldn't consider myself a 'chick' in other regards, I do find the term 'chick gamer' mildly amusing.
GilaMonster 01-11-06, 03:20 PM	I don't really think it's that bad of a phrase. And though normally I wouldn't consider myself a 'chick' in other regards, I do find the term 'chick gamer' mildly amusing. It makes me want to go *cluck* * cluck* :chicken: :D
lesliweird 01-11-06, 03:20 PM	I'm a FEMALE gamer. Calling me a "chick" would only get one cussed out. :mad: Sorry :) I personally like it. It's punchy and it avoids that whole male-female, man-woman linguistic dichotomy. Besides, I always feel too grown up to call myself a girl, but not quite enough to call myself a woman, I'm definately not a lady, and female always struck me as a little clinical. Chick works out pretty well for me. QED.
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 03:31 PM	I just prefer the term "gamer." I don't think I should be put into a separate category just because of my gender. I'm just a gamer like everyone else on these boards. And I agree. A lot of women avoid gaming because of the stereotypes surrounding it, especially where creepy fanboy gamers are concerned. I think a decent portrayal for that is the comic book shop owner on The Simpsons. Just to step away from the topic for a moment, I feel that generalizations are hardly ever good unless two very different groups are trying to discuss a general problem. Not all female gamers are the same. Not all male gamers are the same. Sure, stereotypes exist, but it doesn't mean we all perpetuate them.
friedmad 01-11-06, 03:35 PM	in my opinion, chick gamers always fall into one of three categories: 1) wives of dudes who are gamers who use thegaming sessions to catch up on current events and shoot the s.hit. 2) a gamer who goes WAYYY over the top with characterizations (voice, manner of speech, social interactions with NPCs, you know who you are). 3) gender-non-specific females who look, dress, act and smell just like male gamers...
friedmad 01-11-06, 03:38 PM	...I'm definately not a lady... What are you doing Friday night? :D
lesliweird 01-11-06, 03:43 PM	What are you doing Friday night? :D In all likelyhood, my boyfriend. Sorry dude :)
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 03:51 PM	in my opinion, chick gamers always fall into one of three categories: 1) wives of dudes who are gamers who use thegaming sessions to catch up on current events and shoot the s.hit. 2) a gamer who goes WAYYY over the top with characterizations (voice, manner of speech, social interactions with NPCs, you know who you are). 3) gender-non-specific females who look, dress, act and smell just like male gamers... According to your categories, I must not be a female gamer because I don't fit into any of those categories. I must be some kind of female gamer imposter.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 04:10 PM	According to your categories, I must not be a female gamer because I don't fit into any of those categories. I must be some kind of female gamer imposter. I bet you're just biding your time- lying in wait for the opportunity to spring you evil plan to ruin the game with unicorns, anime, and pretty pretty princesses. :D
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 04:16 PM	I bet you're just biding your time- lying in wait for the opportunity to spring you evil plan to ruin the game with unicorns, anime, and pretty pretty princesses. :D Uh oh...she's onto me... I hate anime, actually. Unicorns are only fun when they're in conjunction with a party member's hippie cleric visions of Ehlonna. Pretty pretty princesses are hardly ever pretty!
friedmad 01-11-06, 04:21 PM	According to your categories, I must not be a female gamer because I don't fit into any of those categories. I must be some kind of female gamer imposter. In my opinion, yes. Its my experience that chick gamers always fall into one of these three categories. you must be some kind of mutant freak chick gamer :evillaugh
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 04:36 PM	In my opinion, yes. Its my experience that chick gamers always fall into one of these three categories. you must be some kind of mutant freak chick gamer :evillaugh Perhaps you should invest in broadening your experience, then. I have a steady job, go to college full time and I have a healthy social life outside of gaming. I'd say I'm pretty non-mutant freak, actually.
friedmad 01-11-06, 05:01 PM	see next post. i screwed this one up
friedmad 01-11-06, 05:02 PM	ok, then are there any more 'normal' chick gamers out there besides yourself? cuz if there are, i've never seen 'em. I am humbled by your normalness.
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 05:10 PM	I know a few. :)
Gailbraithe 01-11-06, 05:30 PM	That's what you get for hanging around with larpers.... Not all women are like that. Please show me where I said that all women are like that. I would love for you to show me where I said that, as I made quite sure to not say that, and obviously I messed up and somehow managed to say it....No...Wait...I just re-read everything I said, and sure enough, I did not say all women were "like that". Though, considering I described several types of women, what "like that" means is rather vague and incomprehensible. In fact, I almost starting to get the feeling that maybe your comment is an uncritical, unthought over-reaction to a harmless and flippant post. And flaming this thread is totally unwelcome. Go start your "anti-women gamers gripe and moan" thread elsewhere. :mad:...Also, I call: http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/sfa3/blankaroll.gif Well hey, good thing I'm not calling anyone a troll or otherwise trying to start an argument with other users. If I decided to troll this board, I assure you I'd get more of a reaction than a few halfwits with poor reading comprehension skills taking offense at insults they've imagined to exist. Maybe you're a fat chick who likes to force her sex fantasties on other people, and just took my crack personally. If so, then it was not intended as an insult to you, but I'll be generous and apologize if you decided to take offense at a comment not directed at you. So, if you resemble the type of person I was commenting on, I apologize for any unintended offense. Or, I could just take the fact that you think being called a "chick" is offensive as a sign that you're an unreasonable and hostile person who is simply looking for excuses to get angry at others. Because really, getting offended at being called a chick is pretty dumb. That's like a guy getting offended at being reffered to as a "dude" because it had some insulting conotations in the western territories in the late 1800's. Its like "Way to lose perspective."
Gailbraithe 01-11-06, 05:35 PM	Sorry :) I personally like it. It's punchy and it avoids that whole male-female, man-woman linguistic dichotomy. Besides, I always feel too grown up to call myself a girl, but not quite enough to call myself a woman, I'm definately not a lady, and female always struck me as a little clinical. Chick works out pretty well for me. QED. I have three slang dictionaries in my house, going back to 1965. All of them define "chick" as "a hip or cool young woman".
lesliweird 01-11-06, 05:43 PM	...
dragonchic1500 01-11-06, 06:02 PM	ok, then are there any more 'normal' chick gamers out there besides yourself? cuz if there are, i've never seen 'em. I am a "normal" gamer chic. I think the reason you've never seen one is because we are too busy doing other things to hang around gaming stores all day. Edit: I am not saying that you hang around gaming stores all day. These stores are the usual place for contacting new gamers in person.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 06:40 PM	....
Trarth 01-11-06, 06:42 PM	I currently DM a group of 5 players 2 of which are women, they usually are quiet and one is usually a fighter, the other a catser, like druid, sorcerer, or cleric of <insert healing diety here> they are into rp/slash campaigns but are pretty heavily influenced by the other players. Any way, they are pretty cool to game with.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 06:58 PM	But the thing that annoys me the most is how desperately male gamers and the gaming industry cater to this microscopic part of the gaming population. Normal chicks simply don't play D&D. Accept it, move on. The kind of weird girls who do play D&D probably dig the chainmail bikini art even more than the average guy. I think it's sad that D&D never managed to have a Frazetta or Vallejo cover, and the primary reason: those (famous fantasy) artists work is "too sexy for D&D". It's inane. :rant: Have you considered looking at this from a purely business standpoint, y'know, given that Wizards of the Coast is a business? With their acquisition and revamping of D&D, they're garanteed to sell a heck of a lot of core books (twice!) and a fair ammount of splatbooks to a lot of men in their core demographic (ie. nerds), whether they have Boris Valejo (not my personal favorite) or not. They can put out Complete ______ books as much as they like, but eventually most men will run out of money and/or willingness to buy new books. If they want to continue to expand, from a purely ecconomic standpoint, then it makes sense to court female gamers. After all, nerd markets like manga that cater mostly to chicks are doing well, so it's not like the demographic doesn't have spending power if you give them something they're interested in. If it's microscopic now, then to an optomistic executive that's room for growth.
DarknessEternal 01-11-06, 07:01 PM	Also, I call: http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/sfa3/blankaroll.gif What does Blanka have to do with girls?
TheWanderingAlchemist 01-11-06, 07:13 PM	Im not a chick but interestingly enough I will be beginning a campaign in a couple weeks in which 3 of 4 players I will DM will be female. Now this should be interesting. One is a closet gamer. Doesnt admit it but she loves video games, etc and even played D&D in years past. The others are not really gamer chicks at all. They are however interested and enjoy certain aspects of what D&D entails and I hope they get into it. Either way I have to say all the gamer chicks I know are true gamer chicks. My cousins been playing the consols forver with me. Ahhh the times of SEGA and Sonic. My sister, though she does get distracted if we dont take the cell away, is a as you say a normal gamer chick. She plays he character very much as her self. Semi-usless singer who ends up being there when we really need her. Sometimes it causes us to be like Stop singing and fiddling and get the **** over here and stab this *******! but its a very good roleplaying job. Then theres my other minor gamer chick friends and they are true gamers when they find the right games. And as for the chck I'll be DMing shes a true gamer. Loves the old school, i am talking yoshi's Island old school, and definately is excited to play D&D again so. Three cheers for the Gamer Chicks! :clap: :ayyyy!: :cheer: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :bow:
Morbid 01-11-06, 07:27 PM	*DID NOT MEAN TO THREATEN OR INSULT GAILBRAITHE* My girfreind is a dedicated gamer chick, but not like others. Tall (taller than me unfortunately) cute, and ungreased, as bathed everyday. In my game she tends to be smarter than the others, except with puzzles. Don't get me wrong, she does have her crazy times when you'd wonder how she graduated third grade, and sometimes she'll make you question why people say men think about sex more than women. But in the other times she's great. In fact, I don't have access to my Ravenloft players handbook because she's reading and re-reading it.
Herald@Large 01-11-06, 08:40 PM	Herald@Large, would you agree when people say that women are generally better RP-er's than male? Also, the people in my group are all in a group of friends and there are of course females in that group ( we are not TOTAL nerds) from your perspective how should we ask them to play. How do you think that they would react, I know them quite well, just not well enough in the terms of Dnd. I've found that, when a female player is there to *play*, she tends to be more detail-oriented -- how her character dresses, giving the character a personality, things like that. Some guys (but *not* all) often think of their characters simply as a page of statistics -- more roll-playing rather than role-playing. As to how to ask people to play, I'd say it's more important to ask them how they like to play: are they a role-player or a roll-player? The gender of the player shouldn't be the issue, if the player is there to play (instead of just being there because their SO plays)
Herald@Large 01-11-06, 08:44 PM	It's sad that you get some of this chauvenism. Suprises me in one sense. In other ways it doesn't. Well, the bully (the guy I threw out) was one of these super-arrogant "I'm God's gift to womankind" kinda guys. The only reason he didn't "hit" on me is because I'm not thin and beautiful. His off-color remarks got so annoying that even the other players were asking him to knock it off.
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 08:53 PM	I've found that, when a female player is there to *play*, she tends to be more detail-oriented -- how her character dresses, giving the character a personality, things like that. Some guys (but *not* all) often think of their characters simply as a page of statistics -- more roll-playing rather than role-playing. As to how to ask people to play, I'd say it's more important to ask them how they like to play: are they a role-player or a roll-player? The gender of the player shouldn't be the issue, if the player is there to play (instead of just being there because their SO plays) Very well put, Herald.
Gailbraithe 01-11-06, 08:53 PM	I have an idea. Pause for a moment and replace every use of any variant term for a woman in your post with the corresponding term for men. (eg. "The vast majority of the dedicated Male Gamers I've met were White Wolf LARPers, and thus obnoxious goth twits who desperately need to be ignored"...). If it's something that would put you on the defensive, then it's probably going to upset a woman. There's two different things going on here. Theres what I said, and the terms I used. I used the term Chick Gamer because you used it in the OP, and I was following your lead. There's nothing more to it than that. If anyone wants to take offence at my usage of the term Chick Gamer, I direct them to you, the OP, and to the title of the thread. I don't believe Darth K'Trava was taking offense at my usage of the term, but rather your usage - since she posted two seperate comments. Then there is what I said. You can't just substitute male for female in what I said because that isn't my experience. The vast majority of the dedicated Male Gamers I've met weren't White Wolf LARPers, and if I said they were I would be bearing false witness. But I'm not going to apologize for having only met a small number of dedicated female gamers most of whom were a) White Wolf LARPing twits or b) disturbing. Now just for giggles, try it with black person or any other minority of your choice, replacing the word chick with some other bit of slang. That might just be why Darth K'Trava is upset by it. (Of course, being a chick myself, I can say it all I want :) ) I'm not saying it's a one to one correlation, but the idea is that it is actually a phrase that can be used to be dismissive of women, much like referring to a grown woman as a girl. Your opinion doesn't count, you're a woman. See what I did there? I just used "woman" in a dismissive way. It seems to me that any label can be used dismissively. Sure, someone can say "She can't do it, she's just a chick." But it's the tone and context in which it's used, not the word itself. The word only implies older than young, younger than old, like "guy" or "dude" for males. Some people really mind it, and I've always found that in situations like that it's best to appologize, mention that you didn't mean any harm by it, and move on, rather than to fight about. Most reasonable people will understand that you're not out to say terrible things about women and be willing to move on as well. Some people are really just too sensitive, and shouldn't be coddled. I'd rather ask someone who takes offense at that term to justify themselves. A balck person taking offense at the use of the n-word can justify themselves pretty eaisly - the term was used for centuries as a way of reminding African-American slaves of their place. What are you going to point to with "chick"? It come sout of 1950's surfer lingo, and means "a hip, attractive young woman". Ye gods, what a history of oppression Beach Blanket Bingo recalls! It is really just ridiculous nonsense invented by people without enough real problems to deal with. I'm not trying to censor you, just asking that you be considerate of your audience. Plenty of guys have gotten onto this board and declared that they have had minimal, if any, positive encounters with female role players without inciting negative responses. The difference is mainly in tone....(Yay for diplomacy!) I seem to only have Bluff and Intimidate listed as class skills, sorry? Have you considered looking at this from a purely business standpoint, y'know, given that Wizards of the Coast is a business? With their acquisition and revamping of D&D, they're garanteed to sell a heck of a lot of core books (twice!) and a fair ammount of splatbooks to a lot of men in their core demographic (ie. nerds), whether they have Boris Valejo (not my personal favorite) or not. They can put out Complete ______ books as much as they like, but eventually most men will run out of money and/or willingness to buy new books. If they want to continue to expand, from a purely ecconomic standpoint, then it makes sense to court female gamers. You misread me. I'm not saying they shouldn't court female gamers, I'm saying I think they're doing it all wrong, and that they have a lot of pig-headed ideas about women and how delicate and senistive they are that cause them to do things that are, IMNSHO, dumb. I don't think that showing a succubus demon's boobs in the Monster Manual actually scares women away from the game, and yet that is the persistent myth of the gaming industry. I don't think women are, in general, that weenie. I think there are so few female gamers because of factors far more complex than chainmail bikinis. I think there are so few female gamers because gaming is a 90% male hobby, and for most women taking up gaming means hanging out with guys all night, and that just isn't appealing to a lot of women. That si I think women are turned off of gaming by all the men. After all, nerd markets like manga that cater mostly to chicks are doing well, so it's not like the demographic doesn't have spending power if you give them something they're interested in. If it's microscopic now, then to an optomistic executive that's room for growth. Manga is actually a really good example. Manga has tons of sex and violence, cartoonish women with impossible figures, etc. It has everything that people - primarily men with Victorian ideas about women's sensibilities - say turns women off of tabletop gaming, video games, and fantasy in general. So what is different about manga? My theory: it was introduced to America post-feminism, after it became more socially acceptable for girls to express nerdly interests, and thus women were able to get into it without feeling they were invading an exclusively male-domain. D&D had the misfortune to be introduced in the late seventies, rather than the late eighties.
Herald@Large 01-11-06, 08:58 PM	ok, then are there any more 'normal' chick gamers out there besides yourself? cuz if there are, i've never seen 'em. I am humbled by your normalness. I consider myself "normal". I'm heterosexual (as if that matters), I may be overweight but I bathe frequently, I don't force my sexual fantasies on my fellow gamers, I don't use game sessions to hunt for a boyfriend. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm there to play . In fact, I don't consider myself a "chick gamer" -- I'm a gamer who happens to be female. As to gender differences: one thing I've noticed over the years is that most (but not all) women gamers (i.e. gals like me who are there to play) who play male characters do a reasonably good job (I've played about an equal number of male and female characters in my time). I've only met *one* male player who could play a female character well. All others who tried played them either as sex maniacs, man-hating b****es, or so blandly that the gender difference didn't matter (roll-playing rather than role-playing)
the skilled fighter 01-11-06, 09:22 PM	i have played with girl gamers one is in my group now what i have noticed is that girls can change the fate of the game mainly when it comes to a vote. we as the male part of the group yell and shout but they just take it all in. Only every now then someone will comment on the fact that her charcter is a girl by spanking the charcter on the butt and end up getting slapped in the face.
MadApe19 01-11-06, 09:34 PM	ROTFL!!! That one had me busting up at work this morning! My experiencence with girl gamers, they fit into 3 groups: 1) They are part of a package with their boyfriends who are the actual gamers (and based on how often I have read this in earlier posts I think we can all agree the vast majority fit into this group) and they tend to be a supporting or even secondary character to him. Then they stop showing up after several games because it's really more his thing then hers. 2) They are way too into it. These are the chicks who can never get out of game mode. Outside of the game this is the one who will want to get the subject back to the game and even run pseudo-sessions. They are also prone to asking for unicorns or being a princess. Lastly they can have a tendency to start making snap decisions for other player's characters. I had to tell one girl more then once and finally talk to her apart from the others about trying to run other players characters. 3) Perfectly normal players. Smart, funny and overall good to both play and hang out with. I have a new DM who is a girl and she is more or less like one of the guys from what I have seen. Now for male gamers, well thats for another thread, but for you guys who need to be the star of the game (you know who you are) your thread has likely already been posted. Haha, I used to DM for a number 2. And she was a hardcore number 2. She always wanted to play in various solo campaigns and despised playing anything not evil and not of a god-related or fiend-related nature. She was a White Wolf fan, often trying to get me into the series of WW products as well. I liked the Werewolf, Demon, and Inquisition ideas quite a bit, and the basic system was cool, but she got tiring fast. It may be in part due to her, but now I really dislike most high-magic games and widespread use of any outsiders. Ironically, I found some of the times playing with her(solo or with a full group) some of the more enjoyable DMing times, when she wasn't running my brain on overdrive with her ideas of 'special' characters. Besides her, I've had a few other female gamers in my roughly 4 years of DMing/D&D experience. One was very close to me, even though we didn't know each other personally(I run all my games online using mIRC or Online Pen&Paper World or other programs), and I had fun just roleplaying with her in general. She was shy and cautious, and leaned towards roleplay in D&D as opposed to combat-won, blood-covered treasure hunting, which was great for me since my campaigns are more on the roleplaying side of the spectrum. She didn't even play with me for long, but the roleplaying done with her was some of the most entertaining I've experienced.
MageofMyth 01-11-06, 09:43 PM	I am a woman gamer, my roommate is a woman gamer, and one of our best friends is a woman gamer. Over the years I have played with dozens of women gamers. In fact I now play in a group that is just the three women and one man, the man is a player not the DM. Strangely enough all the women DM and the man doesn’t. I consider myself a normal gamer. For the record the only Unicorns I want to see is the one leading us to the next story hook. The princess is to be saved, and returned for lots of gold. As for Anime unless it’s Helsing I could care less. I am currently getting my Masters Degree and consider myself mostly normal.
Gworraent 01-11-06, 10:19 PM	All others who tried played them either as sex maniacs, man-hating b****es, or so blandly that the gender difference didn't matter (roll-playing rather than role-playing) I've only played a man hating biotch once, that was many cos we were in an evil campaign, and I was, yep you guessed. Drow. Next I'm going for a female human sorcereress, probably CG. I always try to diversify the types of characters that I play.
High Octane 01-11-06, 10:24 PM	It has been my experience, which is limited, that men and women have tendencies to be different types of gamers. Both can and do work as gamers though, and they can work together. I find that men are into character building and development. They want the character to go up in stats, get more gold, and beyond that learn new things, have new experiences, and meet new people. They are more likely to have a character who wants to see the world, or buy a castle, or rule the world, or become the worlds best swordfighter. Women, on the other hand, are more into character interaction and playing with the character. They enjoy acting out the characters feelings, choosing their looks, and deciding their speech. They are more likely to be descriptive about the songs the character sings, how the character walks and other things. They tend to have little desire to change or build up the character so much as the chance to be in the spotlight. Neither playing style is wrong unless they fall into extremes. Both have strengths and weaknesses and tend to play out differently.
tsuyoshikentsu 01-11-06, 10:30 PM	Lookat me, Mommy! I'm defending Gallbraithe! I have an idea. Pause for a moment and replace every use of any variant term for a woman in your post with the corresponding term for men. (eg. "The vast majority of the dedicated Male Gamers I've met were White Wolf LARPers, and thus obnoxious goth twits who desperately need to be ignored"...). If it's something that would put you on the defensive, then it's probably going to upset a woman. I did that. None of it was offensive. I used the term Chick Gamer because you used it in the OP, and I was following your lead. There's nothing more to it than that. If anyone wants to take offence at my usage of the term Chick Gamer, I direct them to you, the OP, and to the title of the thread. There's also the fact that it's one syllable and "girl" just evokes images of pink-dress clad six-year-olds for some of us. But I'm not going to apologize for having only met a small number of dedicated female gamers most of whom were a) White Wolf LARPing twits or b) disturbing. Neither shoud you. No one can be totally responsible for whom they meet. Now just for giggles, try it with black person or any other minority of your choice, replacing the word chick with some other bit of slang. Hi, Lesli, I'm a Conservative Jew. For thousands of years, my people were subjugated in pretty much every society they lived in, culminating in several horrible holocausts -- one of which was as recently as 65 years ago. Still today, there are areas of the world and even the United States I would not feel comfortable wearing a kippah in. If Gallbreithe had said the same thing about Jews, the ONLY way I would have cared is if he had used the term "k*ke" and was not Jewish himself. And that would have nothing to do with what he said. Personally, I thought he was very careful to outline that he was speaking about women that he had met, and not women in general. Sure, someone can say "She can't do it, she's just a chick." But it's the tone and context in which it's used, not the word itself. The word only implies older than young, younger than old, like "guy" or "dude" for males. While the definition isn't quite correct, the sentiment is. Some people really mind it, and I've always found that in situations like that it's best to appologize, mention that you didn't mean any harm by it, and move on, rather than to fight about. Most reasonable people will understand that you're not out to say terrible things about women and be willing to move on as well. In this case, there seems little harm done. He didn't refer to women as "b*tches," or any such similar -- he just used a term that's more common in a lot of places than the more literal word. Some people are really just too sensitive, and shouldn't be coddled. I'd rather ask someone who takes offense at that term to justify themselves. A balck person taking offense at the use of the n-word can justify themselves pretty eaisly - the term was used for centuries as a way of reminding African-American slaves of their place. What are you going to point to with "chick"? It come sout of 1950's surfer lingo, and means "a hip, attractive young woman". Ye gods, what a history of oppression Beach Blanket Bingo recalls! It is really just ridiculous nonsense invented by people without enough real problems to deal with. This, however, is where you go too far. Belittling the very real lack of equality -- I hesitate greatly to say "oppression" -- women over time have experienced is something that should not be done. We understand the poin that there may be an overreaction here, but there is no need to go this far. I'm not trying to censor you, just asking that you be considerate of your audience. Plenty of guys have gotten onto this board and declared that they have had minimal, if any, positive encounters with female role players without inciting negative responses. The difference is mainly in tone....(Yay for diplomacy!) Your tone actually seems a little more hostile and overbearing to me, up until Gallbreithe's "Beach Blanket Bingoes" point.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 10:44 PM	Alright, I went back and read your second post on the thread, which definately softens some of the remarks you made in the first. Most of the snitty comments have been removed. I don't believe Darth K'Trava was taking offense at my usage of the term, but rather your usage - since she posted two seperate comments. fair enough Then there is what I said. You can't just substitute male for female in what I said because that isn't my experience. The vast majority of the dedicated Male Gamers I've met weren't White Wolf LARPers, and if I said they were I would be bearing false witness. But I'm not going to apologize for having only met a small number of dedicated female gamers most of whom were a) White Wolf LARPing twits or b) disturbing. I'm not asking you to. My point was that if I, for example, were to make remarks to the effect of "guy gamers **** me off. The only male gamers I've ever met are smelly overweight basement-dwellrs" would you not instinctively tense up and go on the defensive, even if in my own experience that was true? It looked an awful lot like you were deliberately trying to agrivate girls. Since that's not the case, I'm sorry for sniping at you. Your opinion doesn't count, you're a woman. See what I did there? I just used "woman" in a dismissive way. I concede your point. You can use any term for woman dismissively. I overreacted. You misread me. I'm not saying they shouldn't court female gamers Can you see how it came across that you might be antagonistic to the idea? I'm saying I think they're doing it all wrong, and that they have a lot of pig-headed ideas about women and how delicate and senistive they are that cause them to do things that are, IMNSHO, dumb. I don't think that showing a succubus demon's boobs in the Monster Manual actually scares women away from the game, and yet that is the persistent myth of the gaming industry. I don't think women are, in general, that weenie. I think there are so few female gamers because of factors far more complex than chainmail bikinis. I dunno, I kind of like that there are some women shown actually wearing armor that might actually protect their vital organs. It strikes me as a little more dignified. It's funny, because Vallejo actually bothers me (while I'll grant that he does excellent figurative work, all the people in those paintings alway struck me as looking really vacant), but the first D&D book I ever bought was that book of second edition art and novel covers by Elmore and that crowd, which also had a lot of chicks in chainmail (and some chicks in plate male). I think there are so few female gamers because gaming is a 90% male hobby, and for most women taking up gaming means hanging out with guys all night, and that just isn't appealing to a lot of women. That si I think women are turned off of gaming by all the men. I think not all the men. There to seem to be some guys ra-ra ing female gamers. Manga is actually a really good example. Manga has tons of sex and violence, cartoonish women with impossible figures, etc. It has everything that people - primarily men with Victorian ideas about women's sensibilities - say turns women off of tabletop gaming, video games, and fantasy in general. So what is different about manga? Not as an argument so much as an addition: A lot of it is also written by women, involves female (and sometimes strangely feminine male) protagonists, and caters to a lot of the tastes that are traditionally associated with girls (unicorns, magic princesses, romance, soap opera stuff.... gay men?). There's also fantasy novels. I came into D&D more through the books than straight off gaming. Call me whiney if you want, but I think it would have been harder for me to get into gaming if I hadn't read the fiction where a lot of the women were heroes and not just someone you saved and then slept with (ala Conan.) My theory: it was introduced to America post-feminism, after it became more socially acceptable for girls to express nerdly interests, and thus women were able to get into it without feeling they were invading an exclusively male-domain. D&D had the misfortune to be introduced in the late seventies, rather than the late eighties. I will freely admit that early on I was intimidated by being one of the least experienced players in a group of guys, but my experience with all of the guy gamers I've played with has always been very supportive. On the rare but unpleasant occaisions I have felt like I was "invading an exclusively male domain" it was never so much that it was all male as it was certain men. I'm also willing to admit that I overreacted because your post sounded a lot to me like an accusation that girls constitute an embarassing but otherwise negligible part of the gaming populace that is nevertheless keeping you from having the game the way you want. I misunderstood and I apologize.
lesliweird 01-11-06, 10:52 PM	Lookat me, Mommy! I'm defending Gallbraithe! Again, sorry. I overreacted.
friedmad 01-11-06, 11:09 PM	I consider myself "normal". I'm heterosexual (as if that matters), I may be overweight but I bathe frequently, I don't force my sexual fantasies on my fellow gamers, I don't use game sessions to hunt for a boyfriend. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm there to play . In fact, I don't consider myself a "chick gamer" -- I'm a gamer who happens to be female. As to gender differences: one thing I've noticed over the years is that most (but not all) women gamers (i.e. gals like me who are there to play) who play male characters do a reasonably good job (I've played about an equal number of male and female characters in my time). I've only met *one* male player who could play a female character well. All others who tried played them either as sex maniacs, man-hating b****es, or so blandly that the gender difference didn't matter (roll-playing rather than role-playing) I found this thread of particular interest, and I am happy that the topic was brooched, because it always seems that male gamers always play male characters. Why? It would seem to me that the answer is twofold. 1. It gives males a chance to play a fantasy male; 2. Males dont really know what females are like, so they tend to freeze up when trying to envision how a female would react in a given situation. My current character is a female elf. By doing so I think Ive discovered the real reason why so few females play the game, and why even fewer players choose the female gender for their characters - DMs dont know how to deal with female characters. I cannot begin to count the number of times my PC has been hit on in bars, mis-treated, or been downright rude to in the game. the DM seems to think its funny to treat female characters as if theyre either second-class citizens, or objects to be abused by the NPCs of his world. This may be simply the reaction of an immature DM, who treats the male PCs much differently... Needless to say i've had to stick my fair share of stilettos in the eyes of would-be tormenters...
fuzzypants 01-11-06, 11:31 PM	I found this thread of particular interest, and I am happy that the topic was brooched, because it always seems that male gamers always play male characters. Why? It would seem to me that the answer is twofold. 1. It gives males a chance to play a fantasy male; 2. Males dont really know what females are like, so they tend to freeze up when trying to envision how a female would react in a given situation. My current character is a female elf. By doing so I think Ive discovered the real reason why so few females play the game, and why even fewer players choose the female gender for their characters - DMs dont know how to deal with female characters. I cannot begin to count the number of times my PC has been hit on in bars, mis-treated, or been downright rude to in the game. the DM seems to think its funny to treat female characters as if theyre either second-class citizens, or objects to be abused by the NPCs of his world. This may be simply the reaction of an immature DM, who treats the male PCs much differently... Needless to say i've had to stick my fair share of stilettos in the eyes of would-be tormenters... I would venture to guess that your experience with playing a female character is why a lot of women don't play D&D. Gaming is definitely more male-dominated, and my experience has been a 70-30 thing. Most of the guys I play with respect me as a person. When I go into a particular gaming store in the area (where the clerks are 10-20 years older than me), I feel like they're condescending, coddling, and think it's a big joke, or perhaps an insult, that a woman is purchasing some dice and a D&D book. If your DM also thinks it's funny to do that to you in-game, I can't imagine how he treats women in real life. :\ If he doesn't know how to react to women in-game, then I think that says a lot about him as a person. Oh well. Not my place to judge. *makes a female half-orc who hits on every male in sight...perhaps literally* "You so hottie!" *clubs out of sheer excitement*
Gailbraithe 01-12-06, 01:45 AM	This, however, is where you go too far. Belittling the very real lack of equality -- I hesitate greatly to say "oppression" -- women over time have experienced is something that should not be done. We understand the poin that there may be an overreaction here, but there is no need to go this far. I'm not going to argue that women haven't been horribly oppressed for most of history, only really beginning to change in this century, and really almost entirely in the second half. But I will argue til I'm out of breath that the word "chick" - which wasn't used to refer to women until the 1950's and only really gained traction in the post-feminism 1970's - is not a part of that history of oppression. My point, which I think you misconstrued, was that a linguistic relic of mid-20th century West Coast surfer culture should not be confused with the entirely seperate history of women's oppression. The word "chick" is simply not related to that history the way the n-word is related to the history of black oppression. My point was that if I, for example, were to make remarks to the effect of "guy gamers **** me off. The only male gamers I've ever met are smelly overweight basement-dwellrs" would you not instinctively tense up and go on the defensive, even if in my own experience that was true? It looked an awful lot like you were deliberately trying to agrivate girls. Since that's not the case, I'm sorry for sniping at you Canned response: "Actually, some gamers live in attics." My presumption would be that either a) they have met few gamers, or b) they've met plenty of gamers and only recognized the smelly ones as such, in part because the stereotype of gamers. I dunno, I kind of like that there are some women shown actually wearing armor that might actually protect their vital organs. It strikes me as a little more dignified. I think it's a matter of context. I think if you're going for realism, then sure. But it bothers me when people point to Red Sonja - one of my all-time favorite fantasy characters - and say it's ridiculous that she wears a chainmail bikini, but don't ever question the fact that Conan is fast and able enough to dodge almost all blows, and tough enough to keep going the few that land. Because if a person thinks it's unrealistic for Red Sonja to be that tough and fast, but not unrealistic for Conan to be that tough and fast, then that person is sexist. It's funny, because Vallejo actually bothers me (while I'll grant that he does excellent figurative work, all the people in those paintings alway struck me as looking really vacant), but the first D&D book I ever bought was that book of second edition art and novel covers by Elmore and that crowd, which also had a lot of chicks in chainmail (and some chicks in plate male). Vallejo's work does have a certain vacant quality. I also don't like his choice of models - I prefer Frazetta's choice to go with atheletes as models rather than bodybuilders, as I think athletic muscles look less ridiculous and more heroic. Elmore also avoids the bodybuilder look, but I swear to god he uses the same model for all his drawings. The faces on Elmore's women all seem identical to me. Like if you look at Frazetta's women you see all sorts of faces - European, Asiatic, African - but with Elmore it always looks like the same woman. Maybe he married a model early in his career. Wait, that was just way off-topic, wasn't it? And I also think that if a person looks at a picture of Red Sonja (http://www.enworld.org/Inzeladun/conan/redsonja/sonja_files/redsonja02.jpg) and sees "degradation of women" or any other such thing, but doesn't see "degradation of men" in a [picture of Conan (http://fantasy.mrugala.net/Les%20Edwards/Les%20Edwards%20-%20Conan%20Road%20Of%20Kings.jpg), then that person is in serious need of deprogramming. I found this thread of particular interest, and I am happy that the topic was brooched, because it always seems that male gamers always play male characters. Why? About one out of every six character ideas I get is for a female character. None of my PC female characters have been sex maniacs or man-hating b****es, since I don't really find those interesting concepts. Most of my female characters are modelled on characters like Cleopatra Jones, Lara Croft, Evelyn Carnahan (from The Mummy), etc. They might fall into the "blandly roleplayed" catergory, but I'm not a great role-player.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-12-06, 02:05 AM	You have good taste, Gailbraithe. Red Sonja rules.
tarsia 01-12-06, 10:56 AM	As to gender differences: one thing I've noticed over the years is that most (but not all) women gamers (i.e. gals like me who are there to play) who play male characters do a reasonably good job (I've played about an equal number of male and female characters in my time). I've only met *one* male player who could play a female character well. All others who tried played them either as sex maniacs, man-hating b****es, or so blandly that the gender difference didn't matter (roll-playing rather than role-playing) This brought an interesting side note to mind - I've known 4 men who've played female characters (at least of what I remember off hand). All did a decent job of it, but part of the reason they made female characters was because the concept of the character worked best if the character was female, as opposed to male. Of course, then we have another friend (gay male actually) who has a tendency to play rather sexless characters - undead, insects (ie thri-kreen), anthromorphic birds... But he is also an exceptional roleplayer, and plays these more unusual character types with a fair amount of believability.
tsuyoshikentsu 01-12-06, 11:26 AM	My point, which I think you misconstrued, was that a linguistic relic of mid-20th century West Coast surfer culture should not be confused with the entirely seperate history of women's oppression. The word "chick" is simply not related to that history the way the n-word is related to the history of black oppression. I'm not disagreeing with this, I'm disagreeing with the way you said it. Moving on. I found this thread of particular interest, and I am happy that the topic was brooched, because it always seems that male gamers always play male characters. Why? (et al) Your first two points are interesting, but it's your anecdote I find myself agreeing with. As I tend to mention a lot on these boards, I'm an actor, and I find myself having to play roles designed for women every so often. (Or sometime men trying to be women - THOSE are fun. Read "A Midsummer Night's Dream" if you don't believe me.) Combined with the fact that most of my time is spent hanging around with or talking to girls, or women, or whatever, I feel I have a pretty clear grasp of the female psyche -- for a guy, anyway. As such, I never "freeze up" when playing a female; indeed, my friend Katie jokes that occasionally I make a better chick than she does. (And yes, that's the word she uses.) The real problem does indeed come from the in-game abuse my character gets. This is an actual argument that I had with a DM once. I was playing a female fighter who was at the time wearing full plate. DM: Okay, it's the Blackguard's turn. *Rolls* Evynne (me), he lays his hand on your unprotected leg and casts a spell of wasting on you. Roll a Will save. Me: Sure, when you tell me how my leg is unprotected when I'm wearing full plate. DM: Uh... how does that cover your legs? Me: *Glare, pause* Draw my character. DM: What? Why? Me: DO IT. (The DM is a decent artist, and about two minutes later he hands me a rough sketch I look at it for about three seconds, then put it down.) Me: This is not full plate. This is a one-piece. I then proceed to tell him that my character is covered from head to toe in a good metal armor, just like the blackguard. The sad thing was, no other males in the group backed me up. (Katie thanked me afterwards, though.) And I haven't played a woman character since.
Aufenshauft 01-12-06, 12:19 PM	I'm not a "chick gamer", but I married one. Best decision I ever made. AMEN man!! Only way to go. Made my saturdays better by far. Though getting woke up at midnight by her trying to figure out polymorph isn't the best part of it. (she doesn't go to these boards :D ) My second DM game that I started in College was all female- 6 players and just me as DM (male). But at the same time, it shaped the type of DM I became. You see, I had to focus a little more on teaching the rules (since they on a whole were less likely to focus on what you could do when you finally got 3rd level spells or the like) and more on character historys and follow-up questions about the situation they were in. They didn't look at a picture of an orc and see the axe, they wanted to know what kind of armor, items on his belt, how shifty the one in back was, etc. Another example: Two characters- the mage owner of the house in town, and the 'Rustic' barbarian (actually fighter -2nd ed). The barb took it upon herself to spend a couple thousand on a new garden just outside of the house, which being in Waterdeep (FR) is a big thing. Spent a year or so on it, and went through much description and made friends with the kids in the neighborhood to take care of it when she left on 'buisness'. The Mage also wanted a hawk familiar (because they are deadly in a small, stiking package) and decked it out on all the things it might want, not for power, but for atmosphere. A ring of spell storing was put on it and filled with Web, Lightning Bolt (for game stuff), then unseen servant and cantrip (so it could pick up things when it wanted to). She was looking into a mithral breastplate for it just before the game ended. Both characters really wanted to go into details and give personality to the things. This never interferred with the plot (elequently, I might add), and wasn't an obsession. But it was expected of me as a DM that I leave space for this sort of thing, and that I shouldn't penalize them for not using everything to maximize their power (like getting a better sword or putting different spells into the ring). So long as the game was balanced and they didn't start 'wasting' resources on non-plot things, it became a really nice equilibrium. A lot more subtle things got pointed out, and I learned to go into more story and less action as a result. Go Girl Gamers!
High Octane 01-12-06, 12:27 PM	The real problem does indeed come from the in-game abuse my character gets. This is an actual argument that I had with a DM once. I was playing a female fighter who was at the time wearing full plate. DM: Okay, it's the Blackguard's turn. *Rolls* Evynne (me), he lays his hand on your unprotected leg and casts a spell of wasting on you. Roll a Will save. Me: Sure, when you tell me how my leg is unprotected when I'm wearing full plate. DM: Uh... how does that cover your legs? Me: *Glare, pause* Draw my character. DM: What? Why? Me: DO IT. (The DM is a decent artist, and about two minutes later he hands me a rough sketch I look at it for about three seconds, then put it down.) Me: This is not full plate. This is a one-piece. Hes been playing too much World of Warcraft. You should see the female outfits. I'm not one to complain, but I wonder why feminists arent screaming over it. You can see upper thighs in full plate.
friedmad 01-12-06, 12:47 PM	not to put a fine point on it, but technically 'touch' spells dont have to physically touch the person...dont ask me why...
fuzzypants 01-12-06, 01:19 PM	Hes been playing too much World of Warcraft. You should see the female outfits. I'm not one to complain, but I wonder why feminists arent screaming over it. You can see upper thighs in full plate. Some feminists might get grouchy, some might enjoy it, some might think there are bigger issues to deal with.
Gamebird 01-12-06, 01:19 PM	And the peculiar problems I've noted with female gamers are problems I've not ever had with male gamers. I've never had a male player expect me to graphically describe sex for example That might be because you're male. Trust me, I'm female, and I've had far more than I wanted of guys asking me to describe sex acts their characters were involved in. Or in wanting to describe sex acts to me. My DM (male) has finally learned (I think) that I have NO INTEREST in hearing him recount my character's sex life to me, or anything related to it. What I've always found annoying is the same DM explicitly tells any male player who strays in that direction that he won't talk to them about it PERIOD. But me, I'm female. He *wants* to describe it to me. :mad:
Herald@Large 01-12-06, 01:53 PM	The real problem does indeed come from the in-game abuse my character gets. Oh, *definitely*! I played under one DM (fortunately *only* one!) who took advantage of the fact that my character was female to abuse her horribly. We were doing a dungeon crawl when I introduced this character (female elf thief, 2nd ed) so he ruled that she was the sole survivor of another party of adventurers who had been trashed by a band of kobolds. Fine, except that when our party found her, she was bound hand & foot, gagged, and had been gang-raped by her captors. (He actually had the audacity to use that horribly sexist phrase "If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it". GRR! :headexplo )Then he proceeded to never give her a chance to change into clean clothes or wash herself, and refused to tell me whether or not she'd gotten pregnant from the ordeal. Luckily the campaign fizzled out shortly afterward. Guys (both DMs and players), take a piece of advice: do NOT assume that women (either characters or players) are "asking for it", no matter how they are dressed or behave. And when a female says "No", she means NO. NOT "Maybe". NOT "I'll think about it". And definitely not "Ask me again in 2 minutes". No means no. Period. :mad: P.S. My apologies for the rant, but this is one of my personal "hot buttons" :(
Gamebird 01-12-06, 02:06 PM	Hey, as long as we're venting our inner woman here, here's another thing guys need to learn: Don't respond to the idea that women play role playing games with "Wow! A woman... who games!!! What a concept!!!" First off, I instantly don't want you in my game. Second, I absolutely don't want to be in YOUR game. Third, just get the heck away from me, please? And lastly, stop drooling. I know you're not the retard you look like right now. Additionally, starting threads about whether "chick gamers" exist just shows how cloistered you really are, plus how blinkered you are in that you think they're unusual enough to be worth commentary. Does anyone ask if there are Arab gamers? Gay gamers? Native American gamers? Or if they do, do they ask in a condenscending, "these things probably don't exist" way? Next, don't go on to list the imagined differences between male and female gamers you've met. All that does is illustrate the points you found most memorable about the encounters, which has little to do with how those people actually were. It says far more about YOU than it does about them.
dragonchic1500 01-12-06, 02:45 PM	I played under one DM (fortunately *only* one!) who took advantage of the fact that my character was female to abuse her horribly. We were doing a dungeon crawl when I introduced this character (female elf thief, 2nd ed) so he ruled that she was the sole survivor of another party of adventurers who had been trashed by a band of kobolds. Fine, except that when our party found her, she was bound hand & foot, gagged, and had been gang-raped by her captors. (He actually had the audacity to use that horribly sexist phrase "If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it". GRR! :headexplo ) Wow, on a good day I would have packed up my things and left. On a bad day I would have been arrested for assult (in response to what he said). I really don't understand the assumption that males of all races find humanoid females attractive and so rape them at the first opportunity.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-12-06, 02:51 PM	Wow, on a good day I would have packed up my things and left. On a bad day I would have been arrested for assult (in response to what he said). I really don't understand the assumption that males of all races find humanoid females attractive and so rape them at the first opportunity. I believe that would be the sign of a DM who can't get any, knows he can't get any, would be a rapist if he could get away with it but fears the law, realizes in his game he is the law, and proves what a pathetic, disgusting piece of work he is when he can get away with it. Also, when you get to the point where you're ready to assault, go for the armpit. It's a lot more painful a shot than it sounds, and less likely to be defended since many guys who've just royally ticked off a woman expect a shot in the crotch.
tarsia 01-12-06, 02:56 PM	Hey, as long as we're venting our inner woman here, here's another thing guys need to learn: Don't respond to the idea that women play role playing games with "Wow! A woman... who games!!! What a concept!!!" First off, I instantly don't want you in my game. Second, I absolutely don't want to be in YOUR game. Third, just get the heck away from me, please? And lastly, stop drooling. I know you're not the retard you look like right now. Additionally, starting threads about whether "chick gamers" exist just shows how cloistered you really are, plus how blinkered you are in that you think they're unusual enough to be worth commentary. Does anyone ask if there are Arab gamers? Gay gamers? Native American gamers? Or if they do, do they ask in a condenscending, "these things probably don't exist" way? Next, don't go on to list the imagined differences between male and female gamers you've met. All that does is illustrate the points you found most memorable about the encounters, which has little to do with how those people actually were. It says far more about YOU than it does about them. :blink: Wow, I feel offended. What an unusual feeling. Usually it takes quite a bit to get under my skin. :blink:
fuzzypants 01-12-06, 03:16 PM	Oh, *definitely*! I played under one DM (fortunately *only* one!) who took advantage of the fact that my character was female to abuse her horribly. We were doing a dungeon crawl when I introduced this character (female elf thief, 2nd ed) so he ruled that she was the sole survivor of another party of adventurers who had been trashed by a band of kobolds. Fine, except that when our party found her, she was bound hand & foot, gagged, and had been gang-raped by her captors. (He actually had the audacity to use that horribly sexist phrase "If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it". GRR! :headexplo )Then he proceeded to never give her a chance to change into clean clothes or wash herself, and refused to tell me whether or not she'd gotten pregnant from the ordeal. Luckily the campaign fizzled out shortly afterward. Guys (both DMs and players), take a piece of advice: do NOT assume that women (either characters or players) are "asking for it", no matter how they are dressed or behave. And when a female says "No", she means NO. NOT "Maybe". NOT "I'll think about it". And definitely not "Ask me again in 2 minutes". No means no. Period. :mad: P.S. My apologies for the rant, but this is one of my personal "hot buttons" :( Actually, in the campaign I'm playing (under a male DM), my character (female ranger) and her friend (female barbarian, and quite possibly more than a friend considering how much time they spent together) were arrested. They escaped from the prison, but had only the rags on their backs. My character approaches a bunch of drunken human soldiers camping and asks if they have any supplies to spare. The NPC says "Sure...for a price," while eyeing up my very homely CHA 8 Ranger. My Ranger was like "Um, no. Thanks anyway" and is about to turn around and go back to her barbarian friend who has been hiding in the bushes. The guys advance on my character who is only armed with a large stick. Needless to say, she and the barbarian bashed their heads in, but not without my DM saying something to the affect of how, if you're a female adventurer, the chances that someone is going to rape you is inevitable, that you're just asking for it. Now that I think about it, I should've punched his face in. It makes me want to threaten my male players' characters with rape, just so they know what it's like...you know, when I start DMing. :rant:
RedWizard 01-12-06, 03:26 PM	It makes me want to threaten my male players' characters with rape, just so they know what it's like Uh, your going to reward them?
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-12-06, 03:30 PM	I think she meant something like male titan rape.
fuzzypants 01-12-06, 03:34 PM	Uh, your going to reward them? Despite popular belief, men can be the victims of unwanted sexual advances from women. Not all men are drooling sex-fiends. Men can be raped by women. They can also be raped by men. Would you like it if some troll or orc female tied you up and had her way with you?
Herald@Large 01-12-06, 03:34 PM	I believe that would be the sign of a DM who can't get any, knows he can't get any, would be a rapist if he could get away with it but fears the law, realizes in his game he is the law, and proves what a pathetic, disgusting piece of work he is when he can get away with it. Boy, I seem to have punched several people's hot buttons! :tongue: This is turning into a lively and informative discussion and I hope it continues -- maybe people will learn a few things from it. It reminds me of a thread that died about 6 months ago called "D&D pickup lines". Many of the "lines" in that thread, if tried on me, would have me either laugh in the guy's face, or deck him. Why not just try treating me like a human being? Like I said earlier in the thread: I don't consider myself a "chick gamer", I'm a gamer who happens to be female. Treat me as a fellow gamer, and we'll have a lot of fun gaming together. Treat me like a brain-dead airhead or a sex-starved weirdo and I'll pack up my dice and head for the door.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-12-06, 03:37 PM	Would you like it if some troll or orc female tied you up and had her way with you? Well I'm not big on looks in general and I happen to like bodybuilders, so...
friedmad 01-12-06, 03:38 PM	"Hey Grant, I'm still in the tavern, right"? DM: "YEAH!" "OK! But if there're girls there wanna doooo themmmm!" - Dungeons and Dragons, Dead Ale Wives Watchtower
chikenoodle 01-12-06, 03:45 PM	hey guys... i'd thought i'd offer a chick's perspective toward gaming. to me, it's just a hobby and a way to get together with my friends and have a good time. i game with about 10-15 other students here and 4 of us are females. alot of guys i've talked to think it's cool that chicks play. which is cool, b/c i don't see us chicks quitting anytime soon. i've played both with chicks and without and it's a whole lot more fun having a diverse group. anyways.. i have a question. i've met a bunch of guys that play and once they find out that i play, they kinda take a step back and look at me differently. not like they are going to try to hit on me, but as though they are studying me. are guys intimidated by chick gamers? i certainly hope not. that would totally suck.
Herald@Large 01-12-06, 03:47 PM	Despite popular belief, men can be the victims of unwanted sexual advances from women. Not all men are drooling sex-fiends. Men can be raped by women. They can also be raped by men. BINGO! Watch Shawshank Redemption . Or Deliverance . Rape is not sex. It is assault. :tantrum: On a lighter and more humorous note: DMs, if you're tired of PCs who "hit" on every female in the campaign, I give you permission to use one of my favorite NPCs: "Sweetums", the bouncer. Half-ogre, about seven and a half feet tall, 400+ pounds, and 20 ranks in Intimidate. All the barmaids who are tired of having their butts pinched adore him. His favorite move is to grab the offender by the scruff of the neck, get nose to nose with him, and growl (in a voice that makes Worf sound like a tenor) "Lady say 'NO!'" :D
tarsia 01-12-06, 04:06 PM	All this talk about DMs who have the female characters threatened with or raped made me think a bit about it. It makes me think that some of the problems lies not with the DMs and their views on women, but with DMs not knowing, or establishing, the bounds of their game. Unless all the players agree that something should be part of the game (ie rape, sex, etc), it shouldn't be. So unless the DM discussed such a thing with all the players beforehand he was wrong for introducing it, but only because it wasn't previously approved by the players. In all reality, rape and sex routinely occur in the world. Doesn't mean you have to get into it.
Reighnhell 01-12-06, 04:06 PM	I've been running games a good long time now (since around 1990). And I've had the pleasure of having a good number of lady gamers at my table. I can say honestly that in the large details, the males and female players are largely the same, differences being owed to personality rather than gender. The only difference I have noticed is that the women pay closer attention during NPC interaction and get more involved with the plot and don't suffer from "this is boring, lets kill somethin'" nearly as much. Which I am greatful for. I like running more story intensive games that focus on the characters themselves (interpersed with incidents of horrific violence). But as a rule, I'm selective about my groups and will accept good, character oriented players off all races, genders, religions or sexual orientations.
geekling 01-12-06, 04:46 PM	As one of those female gamers, one that came to D&D thanks to the boyfriend to boot (and have ended up staying around for more than a few sessions.) I probably should show some sign of life. Just to add to the yes we do exists. But you might not be likely to find us is gaming forums - In online knitting communities, on the other hand. I swear, in some of those communites every second person turns out to play D&D, or used to play and would love to get back into the game again, when the subject comes up. Which it does somewhat regularly, and the absolute majority of them are female! I suppose that it is possible that as the only female player in the group the DM and the other players have had a bit more patience with me while I learn the game mechanics than they might have been if I was an other male player in the group. But then again, it might just be down to having no problems at all admitting that I don't know what I'm doing and not being afraid to as question or ask for help and explanations of how the that thing work. I am sure one could make cheap jokes about males and their supposed inability to ask for directions if lost while driving, and draw parallells between the two. But that really would be a cheap shot so I think I'll abstain. An other thing I have noticed is in discussions about hypothetical character builds, with other female players it tends to be more about a concept that would be fun or interesting to play even if it's perhaps not the most effective combinations game-wise. While for males I seem to have noticed a certain trend of it being about combining classes, feats, etc. combined to make powerful characters. Draw from that what ever conclusions you like.
DeeL 01-12-06, 04:55 PM	Talking of in-game harrassment makes me think of that old anime device wherein a woman who was harrassed would suddenly whip out a gigantic wooden mallet from nowhere and clock the slob. Maybe some house rule could simulate the effect entertainingly. Any woman responding to a mans harrassment would do double damage with a non-lethal attack... Out of game, harrassment is rarely a problem. If any guy in my gaming club got abusive, the rest of us - all four chicks and all ten guys, and those are just the ones I know of - would dogpile him until he cried uncle. I'm not sure what we'd do if one of the ladies got abusive, but I put that at a low order of probability. All of them are decent people and good RPers.
konrad_the_tall 01-12-06, 05:15 PM	Now that I think about it, I should've punched his face in. It makes me want to threaten my male players' characters with rape, just so they know what it's like...you know, when I start DMing. :rant: THats really messed up. I think he wasn't trying to rape you, just proposision you. Its a onely life being a soilder. Who cares if your only CHA 8! At least you don't have a *****!
fuzzypants 01-12-06, 05:36 PM	THats really messed up. I think he wasn't trying to rape you, just proposision you. Its a onely life being a soilder. Who cares if your only CHA 8! At least you don't have a *****! Uh, no. When my character expressed disinterest, the other guys got up and started walking towards her. It was very clear of what their intentions were. She said no and they were obviously not taking no for an answer.
was_fired 01-12-06, 06:00 PM	Now that I think about it, I should've punched his face in. It makes me want to threaten my male players' characters with rape, just so they know what it's like...you know, when I start DMing. :rant: If you really feel this is necessay may I advise troll women? While troll reproduction is not clearly spelled out, nor should it be for a variety of reasons, we know three facts about trolls: 1. They have regeneration, 2. Trolls fear no pain, 3. Troll women are larger than the men. When females are larger than the males in a species this indicates that the males do not fight over mates. Now ask yourself what would cause a normally violent monsters like a troll not to fight oversomething as vital as reproduction. The aswer, it requires they push both of their abilities a bit further than they would like. Now ask yourself how much a human without regeneration would enjoy the pain to the sensitive bits a 900lb troll would inflict.
fuzzypants 01-12-06, 06:12 PM	If you really feel this is necessay may I advise troll women? While troll reproduction is not clearly spelled out, nor should it be for a variety of reasons, we know three facts about trolls: 1. They have regeneration, 2. Trolls fear no pain, 3. Troll women are larger than the men. When females are larger than the males in a species this indicates that the males do not fight over mates. Now ask yourself what would cause a normally violent monsters like a troll not to fight oversomething as vital as reproduction. The aswer, it requires they push both of their abilities a bit further than they would like. Now ask yourself how much a human without regeneration would enjoy the pain to the sensitive bits a 900lb troll would inflict. Hahaha! Poor puny humans. Anyway, continuing this conversation should probably fall under the mature boards. Plus, this deviates from the topic of discussion. I was only being facetious with a tinge of righteous anger about what I would do as a DM. I don't think sexual violence/assault is an element that I would want in my game, nor would I want it in a campaign that I play in.
20goingon1232 01-12-06, 06:48 PM	Just to add to the fires: I have played with 5 female gamers in my time. 2 of them in WoD only, 2 in DnD and 1 in both. Of the 2 in WoD, both were playing only to see what it is like. They didn't like it and stopped after a couple of sessions. Of the 2 in DnD, both are newbies and Diablo-junkies. They like the whole hack-and-slash thing, although they are not powergamers by any stretch of the imagination. They do it for the fun as we crack jokes more often than we do anything else. Like the female paladin's lay on hands on the male mage got a lot of giggles when she decided to fondle the traumatised mage. It is all taken in good fun, so no one was insulted (he got her back for it later). The 1 in both was the girlfriend of a player. She ended up wanting to be the leader of the party even though she had never been the leader type. Well, not the "good" inspirational leader type. More of the Nazi "do things my way or I throw a hissy fit" version of leadership. Anyway, I didn't stay long with that group after I realised that all the other guys were willing to play the whipped puppy to the only female in the group. Remember, guys, women fought for EQUAL rights. That is good. But please remember the meaning of the word "equal". Now to move on to the other topic that has been meshed in. I am a male player myself. I have played a few female characters. About 60-40 male-female ratio, actually, since I tend to start with male and then if the character die, I switch to female, and then back to male, etc. I have no problems with either.
Gailbraithe 01-12-06, 07:01 PM	Additionally, starting threads about whether "chick gamers" exist just shows how cloistered you really are, plus how blinkered you are in that you think they're unusual enough to be worth commentary. Does anyone ask if there are Arab gamers? Gay gamers? Native American gamers? Or if they do, do they ask in a condenscending, "these things probably don't exist" way? You do realize the OP is a woman, right? I think calling her "blinkered" for wanting to talk to other women about their experience gaming is a bit...blinkered? Might be.
loaba 01-12-06, 07:26 PM	I was just curious, who else here is a girl/chick/woman/lady? And how do you feel that's influenced your experience as a gamer? I'm a guy, last time I checked anyway. I will say that until recently, I had never regularly played with female gamers. I would say that up until now, fem gamers were the exception and not the norm. Who knows, perhaps that has changed, regardless, if yer a girl-gamer that's great. DnD is a game that can be played anybody, it's universal.
Gworraent 01-12-06, 07:41 PM	Anyone who makes sexual advances on characters or vulgar jokes to women need to be slapped. Not that women can't fend for themselves, people who are arses should get what's coming to them. As for my female drow warmage, she has a breastplate, completely covering her. Her armor is completely normal, not like that found in WOTC material where the chest area is especially made to essentuate the feminine qualities of the character. My character is the leader of our evil group, I do alot of roleplaying. My character is known for this."Silence! * muttering to her self* useless suface dwellers/males that they are." Oddly enough, it works. Even with a female player that has a male paladin of slaughter with two rapiers ( HTH??? how'd that happen?)
20goingon1232 01-12-06, 09:12 PM	Anyone who makes sexual advances on characters or vulgar jokes to women need to be slapped. Not that women can't fend for themselves, people who are arses should get what's coming to them. Heh. Funnily enough, even vaguely sexual things only came up seriously once. The females wanted to approach a group of over a dozen men. Now, they have just been dropped in a prison of sorts (basically, the kingdom's prisoners were dropped in a large dungeon complex and left to fend for themselves) without any equipment, and just about stark naked. Those guys have been there for a long time and they were all MALES and armed to the back teeth. I made them roll Int checks and they rolled high enough to realise that approaching men like that in their condition might not be a good idea. I don't deliberately go out of my way to be nasty, but I do enforce logical outcomes. That is why I implimented the Int roll rule.
Tuah 01-12-06, 11:46 PM	I had a girl in an adventure I was in. Really nothing too different from most things other than her character was a guy... So I went back into history, and changed my character's gender to female. Still, nothing different happened. xP
Andrew_980 01-14-06, 01:25 AM	Anyone who makes sexual advances on characters or vulgar jokes to women need to be slapped. Not that women can't fend for themselves, people who are arses should get what's coming to them. Be prepaired to slap the women then, 90% of the vulgar/sexual stuff i have seen in games are from females not a "offense" against them.
Gahread 01-16-06, 12:11 AM	I think we guys get a unfair rap there. I'm just syaing the only person I've ever met who actually owns (and wants to use, in game) the Book of Erotic Fantasy is a woman. The-wha? I'm not sure whether to be amused, horrified, or shopping Amazon.com for a Valentine's day present for my wife. (AKA "Oooh, look hon! They've got the Book of Vile Darkness here! My birthday's coming up soon...") Maybe I'll go with all three. Anyway... My wife is a 'chick gamer'. One of three or four in her old gaming store before she moved. She varied between amusement and annoyance at the way silence would reign every time she walked past a Warhammer 40k or D&D game on the way to her weekend Battletech and Robotech sessions. In the game she's been running for the past few months, we've had one woman join up. See 'Girlfriend of Another Player' stereotype. So far we've healed her unconcious companion twice, casually built roaring bonfires out of fresh-cut entire trees in front of her druid and realized that she makes an excellent torchbearer. My wife's taken a dislike to the player on two fronts: Why are you in my game, and why do women like you insist on ruining it for the rest of us?
Nom 01-16-06, 04:58 AM	Hey, as long as we're venting our inner woman here, here's another thing guys need to learn: Don't respond to the idea that women play role playing games with "Wow! A woman... who games!!! What a concept!!!"This reminds me of an anecdote related by my sister (who doesn't play RPGs, but is into "german"-style boardgames). Looking for a games store in city. Walks into Games Workshop store. Quick glance shows that this isn't quite what she's looking for, but figures that they might know. "Can I help you?" "Uh, I'm looking for a games store. Not with miniatures. Do you know where one is?" "You could try {bookstore} or perhaps {department store}" "No, no, I mean games like Settlers of Catan" Silence falls across the store, as every head turns in amazement to notice this "surprisingly" knowledgeable woman. My whole family - all of whom play games of various sorts - found this very amusing.
Gailbraithe 01-16-06, 01:55 PM	The-wha? I'm not sure whether to be amused, horrified, or shopping Amazon.com for a Valentine's day present for my wife. (AKA "Oooh, look hon! They've got the Book of Vile Darkness here! My birthday's coming up soon...") Maybe I'll go with all three. The Book of Erotic Fantasy. Don't waste your moeny, it's incredibly lame. The closest it comes to having anything interesting is "sexual spellcasting", which is basically where you use Tantric sex to cast spells - a clever DM could use a disguised "sexcaster" to really muck with a lecherous player's head. But that hardly justifies the cover price, and a similiar, better written class (the Discreet Companion) can be found in Legends & Lairs: Traps & Treachery.
Ongorth 01-16-06, 06:58 PM	Anyone who makes sexual advances on characters or vulgar jokes to women need to be slapped. Not that women can't fend for themselves, people who are arses should get what's coming to them. I consider myself a golden star expert on being a arse (or, as us Americans call it, a jerk) and you sir, are dead wrong. Jerks, we get our jollies just doing it to do it. We don't a rhyme or a reason. We don't need a context. We don't need motivation. All we need is an opening. That opening usually has nothing to do with sex or sex, but sometimes it does. Don't get me, wrong, when it does, the results are often awesome. Sometimes that's the widest door. But, in the end, it is really irrelevant, because whenever a door closes, another one springs open. Sexual advances and vulgar jokes against women can both be very serious roleplaying, and indeed, life tools. Without sexual advances, how could we explore our character's sexuality? Without mysoginistic jokes, how could we feel that the characters are living in a world with real, unreasoning hate and fear? Where is the flavor? Where is the locker room? In life, we need sexual advances. How else could we get our sex? And we need vulgar jokes, because we want promotions and raises and often that means going with the boss to a strip joint and acting like a grade A premium pork pig. Sure, we should shatter the glass ceiling, but we also want to drive a Porsche when hit that mid-life crisis and dump our no longer attractive wife for one of those strippers that had caught your eye in the last insepid meeting. Just one of those tough choices. Like how many inches on the waistline a pretty face is worth. And that is full circle.
Sluagh 01-16-06, 08:04 PM	anyways.. i have a question. i've met a bunch of guys that play and once they find out that i play, they kinda take a step back and look at me differently. not like they are going to try to hit on me, but as though they are studying me. are guys intimidated by chick gamers? i certainly hope not. that would totally suck. I don't think so... I never have been, but then, I'm not intimidated by sharing activities with females... there's really not much difference in doing things with females than males. When I was single, I was just as likely to end up in some sort of relationship with them as with the guys (read that as 0% :P ), so there was no difference really. That said, I haven't known many female gamers at all. My wife plays with us (is the DM of one campaign) and occasionally one of my friends' girlfriend joins us, but she's just there because he is.
WhylniaPendragon 01-17-06, 01:18 AM	Ok, I'm a girl, I'm a gamer, or else why would i be here? I've only played, for two or three sessions with another female gamer, so I've pretty much only got my own perspective to go with. Looking through all of the posts, I can see many points of view, and i try my best to see things from other's perspective in order to understand more fully why someone feels as they do. In the group I play in, one of which is my husband, who introduced me to the game about four years ago, the guys view me as some kind of rarity. Heck, finding ANYONE around here to game with is difficult enough, let alone counting Gender specifics. In many ways women and men think differently. Some ways cannot even be argued,(ok, we've proven ANYTHING can be argued) but it has always been my opinion that a person shouldn't be viewed or judged against another person's standard. Humanity is composed of differnces. It's society that places those differences in one context or another. My point is, so I'm a woman. *Shrugs* I do realize that D&D as a whole is set in a fantasy version of the Medieval era, and I understand what connotations that might have to any campaign. It IS a Fantasy version though ,and women are allowed to be as big and bad as any man. Whether or not the person in question sees that as something that takes away from their femininity is up to them. I've played more female than male characters, true. I like playing rogues alot, but then again, I play ALOT of Clerics as well. Sometimes I start with a concept, alot of times I roll up the stats and then decide what I want to play. My intention is to eventually have played every Class. Am I "normal"? Depends upon what is meant by that. Is anyone truly normal? If it means: do I get all dressed up, makeup in perfect place in order to go hang out with my friends and play D&D, then the answer is no. I don't feel the need to paint my nails and do any other number of "girly" things in order to go have fun with my friends. If this makes me a slob, then so be it. I don't see any of the guys making sure they have a perfect shave and all dressed up, so why should I? I don't have any real experience playing long term with another female gamer, so I truly don't know if I play my characters with a decided bent towards femalehood. I just do the best I can, and more than anything, I have fun. Yeah, I've had the experience with one DM where he thought it was cute to have my character get pregnant with the Gnome Cleric of Pelor's child, just because my character went out drinking with the guys. I failed a will save, and *poof*, she's pregnant. I admit it bothered me. The DM was more than a little high handed about it. In the end, though, I'm not going to let it change how I play this character. I don't care if he ends up making me get pregnant again and again, because it's only going to make it more difficult for him when he has to factor in all the game mechanics and such. It's not like I play often in that campaign, anyways. This thread began with the question of "are you a female gamer?" as stated, the answer is yes. Our topic has meandered all over the place, since then, as most threads tend to do. For me, at least, it doesn't really matter what gender you are. There are going to be jerks amongst any group, if you look hard enough. There will be plenty of people who don't agree with you or who's style of gaming doesn't mesh with yours. My main concern is the continued perpetuation of the gamer. The more of us there are, the less chance that this hobby we all love so much continues to flourish. For whatever reason that we get together and RP and roll dice.
Journeyman Samwise 01-17-06, 03:35 AM	For the most part, I find that female gamers are more ninja-like in that nobody knows that they exist unless they want you to know that they exist. Most of them are tired/worried of creepy gamer guys hitting on them. And I must admit, its a fairly well-based fear. As the representative of the local Creepy ****er Association of the board (CFA) for short, we would like to go on record stating that Rumple Cragstan is utterly baseless in his accuisations, none of us have the wherewithal to actually TALK to an OMG REAL GIRL, let alone hit on them. Rather, we would secretly wish to pet her hair, like a beautiful pony, sequestering this fantasy in the deep cockles of our scraggly unwashed neck-beards. edit- Continuing with the discussion, I have no compunctions about including rape in my games. I run a lot of Horror campaigns, and I find it's an effective way to get your players where it hurts most. In probably the downright most awful horrific holy-****-can-he-really-do-that moment in my campaign, the cohort to one of the Sorcerers (a 15 year old girl with levels in Healer) was captured by a Warlock with the invocation: Chilling Tentacles. They found her three hours later.
High Octane 01-17-06, 09:43 AM	I dont know about intimidated by women gamers, but women intimidate the hell out of me.
SimianShaw 01-17-06, 12:39 PM	Some people have had some good things to say, and others have not. . . My (future) father-in-law and brother-in-law did a fantastic job of preparing my fiance for life as a gamer. Sure, she's not the most tactical player, but she can hold her own when the time comes. Female gamers are perhaps one of the best things to happen to me. I was reaching a point where I was getting tired of the rigamarole when my fiance (then best friend) decided she wanted to try it out with me. Her characters are some of the most believable to ever grace a session with my groups. Women just don't think about things the same way men do. The same puzzles that at one time would bog down games for whole nights, can now be solved in less than an hour. Female gamers will suggest options that never would have occurred to most of the male players I know, myself included. I've found that they are just better at staying in character overall, but maybe my experience is jaded due to a dearth of female gamers in New Jersey. Now that I've had the experience of playing with TWO female gamers at one time, I don't think I'd ever want to go back to all male groups. Besides, it's nice to actually have women playing female PC's, instead of men that play them as nymphos. My ONLY gripe about the females that I have gamed with: they never want to play as long as the guys. My fiance and my best friend's wife can only go about 6-8 hours before conking out. As a rule, I'm good for at least 12-15 hours of straight gaming goodness.
Tamlee 01-17-06, 01:39 PM	I'm a female gamer. I'm really glad that I didn't know we were rare when I started getting into gaming. My personality traits include an unattractive tendency to do something just because I'm told I shouldn't, and I'd hate to have gotten into things just for that. ;) That being said, I did start because of a guy. He offered a look at Vampire: The Masquerade, and I said sure. Just about seven years later, I've tried Rifts, D&D, Shadowrun, Battlelords, Champions, and a few other systems, and branched out into all kinds of other gaming. I don't know if I qualify as a "normal girl gamer", especially once we factor in the lists of chick gamer types that have popped up so far on this thread. I can say that being a female gamer is a mixed thing, just like I'm guessing being a male gamer is. There is that annoying silence that falls over the game store when you walk in and head to the 40K minis. At the same time, it can be a lot of fun puncturing the stereotypes. I've played party leader, I've played male characters, and I DM. I do like anime, but I dress in clothing that resembles neither gunny sacks nor the Frederick's display window. When I was only a player, I noticed a lot of differences between the genders when it came to playstyle. Now that I've been DMing for awhile, that's changed. Some of the people I've played with have been annoying in their unwillingness to let other people have the spotlight for awhile. Before, I would have called them overly aggressive or attention-sl*ts, depending on the gender in question. At the end of a twelve hour session that I've run, it stops being about what they're called, and just boils down to the fact that they're annoying when they won't shut up and give other people a chance to do something. Since I noticed that, I haven't run across any tendencies from one player that I haven't found in a player of the opposite gender. I'm in a player-rich area, so I might be sitting on a fluke here, but these are my findings. I will say that I would like to stop being treated like "one of the guys" just because I game. The group I game with consistently doesn't do this, but many of the (men and women) I meet at game stores and clubs think that any topic is fine to talk about because we're both gamers. Please ask before you tumble right into the realm of TMI. Thank you. Anyhow, I'm gonna shut up before this becomes a novel. I will use this as a forum to say thank you to the gamers, men and women, that I've gamed with. The hobby has been fantastic, and I've learned a lot from so many.
Pyrrix 01-18-06, 10:40 PM	At the same time, it can be a lot of fun puncturing the stereotypes. I've played party leader, I've played male characters, and I DM. I do like anime, but I dress in clothing that resembles neither gunny sacks nor the Frederick's display window. LOL! I love it! You put it so perfectly! I have a great deal in common with Tamlee. Additionally, I am often more tactically minded than the men I play with. I brought my fiance into it. I've been playing about a year and a half. I really enjoy both the role playing and the mechanics and will admit to being a bit of a powergamer. I can and do pass for 'normal'. Almost everytime I tell someone I game, be it D&D, PC, console, or whatever, I hear the 'Woah a girl gamer'. Coupled with this thread, I guess we are a bit rarer than I thought. Though I tend to think that many, like myself, use the anonymity of the Internet to truly be treated as just another gamer. I do also think that most gender stereotypes in gameing are far more products of individual personalities than actual gender. Yes, men and women do think differently and such, but we all usually end up at a similar place that is based on the individual rather than anything else. (I'm resonably certain I've read things in my psyc classes and other similar places, though I can't give an actual referance.)
GrumpyWizard 01-20-06, 03:34 PM	Well, I have absolutely nothing to add that hasn't been said already on this topic, but it really spurs my interest. It also brought up another question: what age groups play D&D? (Reading all the "I was introduced to the game by my spouse"-comments.) And just because I can't keep from saying this anyway: I like chicks. I like it when they play D&D. But sadly, it is intrinsically more of a guy's thing to get involved... so be it. But chick gamers: please don't get offended when I am surprised to see you are into this. No offence meant. And the link to the thread on this new topic: link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8279002#post8279002)
striderII 01-20-06, 03:56 PM	I didn't read this entire thread (which I normally try to do before I post), but I just don't have the time to read *all* of it. Just some points: First of all, I am male. Secondly, I've gamed with quite a few female players - probably well over a dozen, possibly two, over the years. Those knocking the "gamer-chicks" in White Wolf LARPs - while I've seen my share of bad ones, the majority of female LARPers that I've encountered have been good. Just beware of gothopotami - they are evil, and are best avoided. I like female gamers, to be honest. They are typically less "competitive" than a male gamer (which is helpful in a non-competitive activity like RPG's), and generally, I've found female gamers to be a pleasure to be around. Of course, there are exceptions, but that'll be found regardless of gender. strider
WhylniaPendragon 01-20-06, 04:04 PM	To GrumpyWizard: I'm 33 and have been playing D&D for about 4 years now ;)
solbergb 01-20-06, 04:50 PM	Hes been playing too much World of Warcraft. You should see the female outfits. I'm not one to complain, but I wonder why feminists arent screaming over it. You can see upper thighs in full plate. Not to mention that in WOW, the throat and upper chest of females appears not to be a vital point, since not a single piece of armor protects it. The belly is often exposed too. I find the armor models very mockable in WOW. OTOH, while my wife joins me in mocking it (and gets shirts/etc of "armor color" to make it look better) my sister likes the "sexy armor". My opinion is that games like those should have both kinds of armor (armor that looks like real armor, armor that looks like a Frazetta drawing) so players could choose what they want. Neverwinter Nights has this problem too, plus all the female figures look like streetwalkers when they pause, since they stand with hip thrust out, etc. It all makes no sense to me. But then the only MMORPG I've ever played was Asherons Call, where armor looked like armor on female models (one character in fullplate+heume looked pretty much like another, except for very minor torso differences). That's what seems normal to me, although nobody playing a female character would wear the studded leather leggings because the models made your hips/rear look "fat".
solbergb 01-20-06, 05:03 PM	All this talk about DMs who have the female characters threatened with or raped made me think a bit about it. It makes me think that some of the problems lies not with the DMs and their views on women, but with DMs not knowing, or establishing, the bounds of their game. Unless all the players agree that something should be part of the game (ie rape, sex, etc), it shouldn't be. So unless the DM discussed such a thing with all the players beforehand he was wrong for introducing it, but only because it wasn't previously approved by the players. . Yeah. One big barrier to entry for women in gaming is that a startling number of them have had their first experience in D&D under a DM that wants to rape and/or impregnate their character (my favorite story along these lines was "you can't abort, that would be an evil act!"...bleah). I've had a lot of women (gamers and nongamers) come forward with stories like that over the years. The reaction is predictable. The individual leaves the game. Only the most persistent or lucky ever find a "normal" game where such behavior doesn't happen except by player consent/encouragement and where nobody at the table is made uncomfortable by it. The old TV tradition of having "the lights dim and cut to morning" for those whose characters fall in love/lust or whatever ingame works pretty darn well for the vast majority of the games, and doesn't squick out everyone else at the table. One nice thing about RPGA gaming is that it is a PG setting because "younger gamers" are encouraged. You might be dropped into a 60' pit with spikes and have a grey ooze land on your head, but you won't have to worry about rape or pregnancy. The bad guys don't discriminate based on gender.
Herald@Large 01-20-06, 05:25 PM	Just beware of gothopotami - they are evil, and are best avoided. strider :heehee ROTFLMAO! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I am SO gonna put that in a game!
striderII 01-20-06, 05:37 PM	:heehee ROTFLMAO! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I am SO gonna put that in a game! Do you know what gothopotomi are? strider
Herald@Large 01-20-06, 08:16 PM	Do you know what gothopotomi are? strider When I read your posting, my immediate mental image was of a female the approximate size of a hippo, dressed in black with straggly hair and a mime's face makeup :P (You owe me a keyboard, BTW :evillaugh ) In a game, I'd make it some sort of aquatic creature (potomus means "river"). With dead white skin and assorted body piercings :D
striderII 01-20-06, 08:29 PM	When I read your posting, my immediate mental image was of a female the approximate size of a hippo, dressed in black with straggly hair and a mime's face makeup :P (You owe me a keyboard, BTW :evillaugh ) In a game, I'd make it some sort of aquatic creature (potomus means "river"). With dead white skin and assorted body piercings :D You are quite close, actually. A gothopotamus (gothopotomi is the plural form) is a female who is not only heavy, but decides to wear a vinyl, leather, or pleather skirt, plus corset, that are all far too small for that person. Add tattoos, piercings, etc, to taste. Disclaimer: This is in no way a slight towards any overweight people - female or otherwise. But seriously, if you would see some of these, you'd understand what I mean. And this is in no way, shape, or form indicitive of all female LARPers. Really. strider
tarsia 01-21-06, 09:10 AM	Yeah. One big barrier to entry for women in gaming is that a startling number of them have had their first experience in D&D under a DM that wants to rape and/or impregnate their character (my favorite story along these lines was "you can't abort, that would be an evil act!"...bleah). I've had a lot of women (gamers and nongamers) come forward with stories like that over the years. I've never encountered this personally, though I have heard stories. Of course, if some pulled this on me (assuming it wasn't seemed that seemed normal for the campaign) I would be horribly unimpressed with the DM. And if they were looking for a reaction, they'd be sorely lacking. :zzz: One nice thing about RPGA gaming is that it is a PG setting because "younger gamers" are encouraged. You might be dropped into a 60' pit with spikes and have a grey ooze land on your head, but you won't have to worry about rape or pregnancy. The bad guys don't discriminate based on gender. We did RPGA for a while at one point (while we were in Georgia for school.. bleh) and I wasn't too impressed with it. I think it's a great way to introduce people to a game and beneficial for a gaming store to host and a decent way to meet gamers in the area. But I also found it rather restricted and rather low loot and just not as enjoyable to play long term.
sdragon1984 01-21-06, 04:33 PM	At the same time, it can be a lot of fun puncturing the stereotypes. I've played party leader, I've played male characters, and I DM. I do like anime, but I dress in clothing that resembles neither gunny sacks nor the Frederick's display window. i have a chick gamer friend that has lots of fun doing that. shell play at tourneys and other various public tables, and when guys in their mid-20s and older ask who the DM is and see her raise her hand, her friends and her go into a little routine of sorts where one of the guys sit next to her, and she jokingly pets his hair and treats him like a pet/servant. its even funnier when her boyfriend (who DIDNT introduce her to gaming, it just happened to be a common intrest) is sitting at her other side....... I do also think that most gender stereotypes in gameing are far more products of individual personalities than actual gender. Yes, men and women do think differently and such, but we all usually end up at a similar place that is based on the individual rather than anything else. (I'm resonably certain I've read things in my psyc classes and other similar places, though I can't give an actual referance.) reminds me of something i read somewhere..... "women think exactly like men, just never at the same time." dunno if thats what you were trying to get to or not, but thats how i read it.
Kheti sa-Menik 01-21-06, 05:35 PM	In all likelyhood, my boyfriend. Sorry dude :) wuh... *cha chink* BANG shot down I'll send the retriever to find his corpse
Kheti sa-Menik 01-21-06, 06:03 PM	Despite popular belief, men can be the victims of unwanted sexual advances from women. Not all men are drooling sex-fiends. Men can be raped by women. They can also be raped by men. Would you like it if some troll or orc female tied you up and had her way with you? Depends..what's her charisma? And how proficient is she with a whip? I keed, I keed. Please don't beat me down.
Sorti 01-21-06, 06:35 PM	I'm a male DM currently DMing for five girl players, so yes, they DO exist... ;)
speeblefreak 01-21-06, 07:31 PM	I help DM a group with four guys and one girl, and I haven't noticed much of a difference between her and the rest of the party.
Nidair 01-22-06, 05:31 PM	I always wonder why this kind of threads always get so many reactions...
GrumpyWizard 01-23-06, 06:46 AM	I always wonder why this kind of threads always get so many reactions... :teach: It's simple human psychology. Talking about the difference between women and men is exciting, because it is distantly related to meet, match, mate (the biological priciple of sexual reproduction). Then, when some people post statements that might seem offensive to certain ladies, a whole discussion breaks loose about the question of equal rights. In other words: sex sells.
nastynate 01-23-06, 06:52 AM	In other words: sex sells. well who doesn't like sex? Kind of an easy product to sell, in my humble opinion. :D
DragonKing72 01-23-06, 08:31 AM	I have only played with one female in 18 years......my wife. she's been playing for about 2 months and really likes the game. she has come up with idea's that most of my other players have never thought of. she brings an interesting feel to the game..i think more females should get into D& D
DM Dave 01-23-06, 12:53 PM	First I want to say that most of my games over the last ten years have included an almost equal amount of ladies as well as guys. While I wouldn't call them supermodels, they have all been attractive, funny and fun to game with. :D Of course, I'm a bit older so I hang with a more "mature" crowd... no offense intended to the youg'ins out there. I also had the pleasure to run a few games where the entire player mix was ALL female, and I also played in a long term game with a female DM. The all female group was the most interesting experience, as there was overall, a HECK of a lot better party cooperation and a willingness to try different ways to approach a problem other than to BASH IT! As a DM I was really kept on my toes as they bypassed many obstacles in their path with stealth and good role-play, as well as using their womanly charms to overcome their male enemies. I also had a little fun with them too when I secretly changed the sex of the BIG BAD so they couldn't beguile her to get by, and made another female character a lesbian who started flirting with them. It was hiliarious, and we really had a great time. Over all though, I think that things simply play out better with a nice mix of the sexes. While men and women think differently neither method is better... they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I find playing out romances a little bit more fun when I'm actually role-playing the male/ female dynamic. It's kind of fun to throw out the big, strong, handsome guy who is NOT intimidated by the female fighter's battle prowess, amndery respectful as well as "turned on" by it. My NPC male romantic interests tend to be "soap opera" guys... which seems to work well as the three female players I've done this with have all had a good time with it... one of which involved a wedding! Good times. As a male DM it was kind of fun to be able to play the "movie romantic lead" who always can say the right thing, send flowers, bestow the perfect gift, etc. RL relationships can never be that good! :D :D With male gamers "romance" story lines just tend to slide to raunch too easily, and I keep having to pull them back from it (I run a PG-13 game. There may be some kissing and sweet talk, but when it comes time for the characters to do the nasty I gently fade out and pick up with the other players. If the story demands it I might fade back for pillowtalk... athough, I must admit, one time I did have the female player's character get interupted in the middle of the act when a were-wolf broke down the door of the bedroom... it was her lover's twin brother. Her and her lover dived out an open window and ended up running naked through the courtyard. The entire table was in stitches :rofl: ). Bottome line... I enjoy DMing a mixed group. The dynamic is a lot better, and the storyline potential increases dramatically. At least that has been my experience. :D
solbergb 01-23-06, 04:32 PM	We did RPGA for a while at one point (while we were in Georgia for school.. bleh) and I wasn't too impressed with it. I think it's a great way to introduce people to a game and beneficial for a gaming store to host and a decent way to meet gamers in the area. But I also found it rather restricted and rather low loot and just not as enjoyable to play long term. While your exact experience a lot depends on the quality and depth of the local DM and author pool, there are significant style differences in RPGA gaming vs a normal campaign. RPGA is not to everyone's taste. A normal campaign is a lot like a big book or comic-book team book, where you follow a few characters through stuff that matters to them...a given chapter or issue (gaming session) may not have all the elements of a "story" but the campaign as a whole does, with story arcs that start and stop and overlap. Such campaigns are great for depth and allow events and characters to very closely interweave, but they suffer from scheduling issues (if you are all falling off a cliff as the last session ends, if Bob can't make it, the whole group can't continue) and you are very much at the mercy of the DM for what kind of game it is. An RPGA campaign is more like a television series. Each session has hook, conflict, resolution and conclusion, but the characters have continuity (including storylines that tie to prior episodes, past actions coming back to haunt you etc). The campaign as a whole decides things like how much wealth to give out, what races to allow, what classes/spells/prc's etc to allow, but within those broad strokes, the individual player has a lot of freedom. If you get a bum DM, you don't go to sessions he's running in the future...but you don't have to give up on the character. Likewise it is fairly common to remember an adventure author and either look for or not play stuff he or she wrote. One way in which an RPGA campaign is more like fantasy literature (focused on your own character) is that you don't travel with the same folks all the time. The RPG mechanic of "4 guys met in a bar at level 1 and stayed together forever" isn't present. Oh sure, you have recurring "companions" but you wander around and your "supporting cast" varies. It is a lot like an anthology of short stories written in the same setting and with the same characters but with different authors. "Low loot" is entirely campaign dependent. Living City, before it folded, was set in Faerun, with all the wealth that implies. Living Greyhawk started out very low cash, but after the first year it is only a little behind DMG guidelines for wealth/level. How each one measures up, you have to probably ask folks who play it. What is true about LG anyway is that loot all gets converted into cash and shared equally, and then you "buy back" stuff you found. This is useful from a bookkeeping standpoint and more importantly from preventing nasty arguments about who gets the cool widget you found in the game - anyone who can afford it, gets it. It can also be a little weird when you have 3 unique swords at the same table, as folks who played the adventure at different times and got the item, meet each other. So from the standpoint of a new gamer - the RPGA games are "Safe" because your investment in your character isn't at the mercy of the DM not liking either it or you. As mentioned, character rape/pregnancy scenarios are not allowed, and pretty much any adventure can be run at a "PG13" level. That said, how much freedom you have depends on the depth of the local playgroups. In the bay area, you can not only play the largest campaign (Living Greyhawk) but all of the smaller ones, and still get tables. We have a lot of GM's and fairly prolific authors and also a big player pool to make tables with. If you are however in Kettleman City, California, I imagine you'd have to drive pretty far to make a table, and be stuck with whomever the locals are without a serious effort to travel.