Post/Author/DateTime	Post
exploding_brain 04-10-04, 10:29 AM	I’m running my first session that’s going to take place in town. Out in the wilderness, or in a dungeon, sure, everyone wears their best armor almost all the time. You never know when some slobbering monster is going to try to eat your face. But what happens when you spend time in town? As players, do you go clanking around in your adventuring armor at the marketplace, or while tossing back a few brews at the tavern? Presumably the characters feel safer in most towns and cities than in a dungeon, but the players know that an encounter can happen anywhere and they want to be ready. How about NPCs? Can you identify what class you are encountering based on the armor your DM puts the NPC in? Do you get strange looks from NPCs for wearing too much armor, or do you always look twice when you see someone in armor. Can one wear certain armors without being obvious about it, or without being remarked upon? Do you have a “city armor”, like a chain shirt that you wear instead of you breast plate or full plate? Can rogues wander around the city in their leather or studded leather and not be remarked upon? How about shields? By the way, the town in question is a bit on the wild and wooly side, being on the frontier. I figure that would increase the amount of arms and armor seen on the streets. There are no laws against carrying weapons in town, although business may have their own rules about them, and the guard will try to enforce peace bonding of weapons.
Vahenir 04-10-04, 10:57 AM	In most of my games, the PCs have "city armour" except if the armour they wear normally is appropriate. You can wear a mithral mail shirt beneath a regular shirt and though someone may hear the scrape of metal, it's not illegal to wear armour, right? But it is less attracting to the eye. Mostly mail and other tunic/coat style armours work as city-wear. And it does depend on the city/town/village. Hide is perfectly acceptable in a barbaric town.. but if you wear hide armour in an urban area.. you'll look ridiculously out of place and everyone will stare at you. In general, my adventurers (players) tend to not want to attract too much attention. Definitely no full plate in the bar. Besides, full plate is extremely uncomfortable to wear for long periods. I enforce that fact in my games with weariness setting in after so long. In general, if the armour they're wearing is conforming or at least NOT bulky, put some regular clothes over it and it's not noticable.. if it's bulky, toss it in for something you CAN put clothes on over.
Salla 04-10-04, 11:12 AM	I generally don't worry about it. Other than the inability to sleep in it, you can clank around in your armor of choice all day long, no problem. It's just too big a hassle, IMHO, to deal with rules for 'how long can you wear your armor'. It adds too little for how much effort it would take.
Eldren 04-10-04, 11:42 AM	For the most part, PCs do feel pretty safe in town, and there isn't much reason for them to walk around fully armored, or even fully armed. Most towns recognize that adventuring types can be pretty volatile (many Fighters are willing to start lopping off extremities at the slightest provocation), and most of the time would probably require that weapons be peace-bonded anyway, if the town is large enough to have a legitimate and formalized town guard (as opposed to a few local yokels who just put on a breastplate and carry a shortsword that used to be a plowshare before it was retooled by Hanby the Blacksmith). In general, if the PCs are only stopping through town for reprovisioning, I don't require them to remove their armor. If they're going to stay in town to wander around for a bit, and usually acquire a room at the inn, then most of the time once they hit the inn they'll remove their armor, because it just doesn't make sense to stay in it all the time. You can't sleep in it most of the time and get the rest you require, and I would imagine it's really uncomfortable. It's already stretching the rules of reality regarding full plate (actual full plate was so heavy that knights wearing it had to be winched onto their horses) to be able to walk around in the stuff casually, much less be able to move at even three times your normal movement rate, swing a huge two-handed weapon with reliability, etc. Adding in the indignity of wandering around town in a huge suit of metal armor, and sitting down at the inn to knock back a few, just doesn't make sense. Besides, most higher-level characters have other magical items which are enhancing their Armor Class, so if trouble hits them, they can always wear those. Rings, amulets, even bracers, are perfectly acceptable to wear while wandering around town. So yeah, most of the time PCs shouldn't be clankin' around town in full plate, unless you're expecting danger. If you're really all that worried about it, just acquire the "Calling" ability for your armor; a single word, and your armor appears on you, full donned, and you have no problems. There's also a magical belt from Dragon Magazine from a few months back that lets you essentially "store" your armor in the belt with a command word, and with another one the armor will ratchet up and be on you again in a single round. I always imagine it lookin' kinda like the armor on the Batmobile from the first Michael Keaton Batman film, at least until the armor is actually fully up. :)
Wolfhart 04-10-04, 01:50 PM	First thing my characters would do is approach a sherif/gate guard and find out what the rules for the town are. Some cities ive been to require "peace ties" on all weapons save for eating daggers. With either a fine or jail time for "disturbing the peace (ties) If I am playing a Fighter type. The most armor I generally wear is scale mail while in town, I would have a Tabbard/Surcoat/Robe over it to make myself less conspicious. Pay the innkeep good coin to store my weapons for me and only bring a Quarterstaff/Walking stick with me or some kind of blunt weapon such as a warhammer. As long as a weapon does subdual damage, most guards dont care. Ive never played an evil character and dont really care to. If its a fortress/Keep or on the frounter I'll be walking around in the best armor that I have, helm tied to belt, shield over my back and no Peace Ties on any weapon. Unless I am ordered to by somone that has the power to jail my character if i dont follow those orders. When my warriors go into any Inn or Tavern they will approach the innkeep/barkeep and find out whats what. if weapons must be tied. and I 99% of the time leave my shield just inside the door. If it be an area that ive been around for a bit.. Like one of my Dwarfs (who was a temp guard up at the fortress) went down to the inn last week with no weapons or armor in frountear setting.. basically re: weapoins/armor depends on the lay of the lands and how the DM describes the other people in the area. And yes I do generally have a lesser set of armor that I would wear if my character used field plate in the wilds for city use.. Most adventurers can get a good feel for another if they see what are dressed in. A Dwarf in scalemail + shield + war hammer is either a Cleric or Warrior. He would put shield on back tie helm to belt and leave hammer on side if he were in a city that was more peacufull.. would almost never compleatly doff his armor unless at the forge A Dwarf in Full Plate + Quarterstaff = slightly confused Fighter, in a city he would wear scalemail and carry the staff. would never wear less the scalemail unless at the forge. A Human in Hide armor +Wooden shield + short spear = druid Would put spear in holster on back and tie it. strap shield over back as well in safe area.. never get rid of the hide. Someone in Robes = Wizard or Cleric (visable holy symbol on robe would be a cleric, if not visable would treat as wizard.) Someone in Studded Leather depending on weapons. would treat as ranger/ swashbuckler or thief. if the be havin an instrument would be a bard. Someone metal armor would be a warrior or priest/pally if holy symbol is visable. Hope my ramble helps. -Wolfhart- of Aldalonde
Nived 04-10-04, 02:24 PM	This is why I love the Called Armor enchatment. Its detailed in the Defenders of the Faith splatbook. A cleric of mine once actually got his hands on +1 Called Fullplate, so with a command word his armor would appear correctly donned as a standard action. Even when better armor occationally was found I let the fighter and paladin fight over it because I loved that called armor so much. That cleric usually wore priestly robes, made it fun RP when someone who looks like an easy target suddenly becomes a very well armored one. Even if one of the other players kept calling him the Power Ranger Cleric.... Its such a handy enchantment that its become one of the more common enchantments found on armor in campaigns I run.
Wolfhart 04-10-04, 03:04 PM	Would that enchantment would on the same lines as the old rings of command from 2ed did? IE: Put one ring on person and other on armor/weapons/item and you could summon to yourself within 1 mile or so of where the item is at?
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-10-04, 03:13 PM	Oh come on, we all know that PC's live in thier armor. Everything, and I mean everything is done without taking it off. Haven't you seen Excalibur? <obvious sarcasm>
BrianMc223 04-10-04, 03:17 PM	(actual full plate was so heavy that knights wearing it had to be winched onto their horses) No, it wasn't. :rolleyes:
Spongly 04-10-04, 03:23 PM	I treat PCs wandering around town with greatswords and full plate much the same way as modern law enforcement agencies would treat people wandering around a city centre with a grenade launcher and wearing a flack vest...
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-10-04, 03:35 PM	The amount of gear a knight carried weighs the same as that of a modern day U.S. soldier, with two VERY important differences. One, the knight's armor was better distibuted across the body, making it easier to carry. Two, the knight trained in armor since childhood. It really didn't encumber them much at all.
bahamut_0 04-10-04, 03:35 PM	I just let them get on with it the way they are. Having their armour on is perfectly fine for me.
splugnut 04-10-04, 04:37 PM	well usually my chars don't done there armor ( full plate ect) they usually keep some padded leather for in town but i had this one char who killed 1/2 the town guard cause he was a kinda a LE palidin ( evil but strictly honor bound) because they wanted him to take off his full plate but that would break his moral code so he killed there asses (cause that is OK by his code) when i DM if my let my PC's were armor in town but if they draw there weapon i treat it like some1 drawing a gun in public like everyone leaves and the guard shows up and i make it so merchants don't like it i also love capturing the PC;s taking all there stuff then informing them of were they can get the stuff that always make this interesting
RobTzu 04-10-04, 08:15 PM	I was deployed to the Iraqi theatre. The Heat index got upto 130-140 degrees. We had to wear "Full Battle Rattle" about 8 hours a day. This included Kevlar helmet, Interceptor Body Armour, Load Bearing Equipment, Long Sleeve Fatiques (mine were the winter ones because they ran out of Summers! We had to have the sleeves down because of Sunburn.). At first we also had our Chemical gear, a waste to be sure, plus our weapon and about 200 rounds of Ammo. We didn't have to wear our backpacks but the total weight of our stuff was about 40lbs. The heat was trapped by all that stuff and while in the heat we drank about 8 liters of water a day, more if we did physical labour. Roland the Crownbreaker was quite right, our equipment weighed quite heavy on the shoulders. I have seen on the History Channel a man in full plate doing sommersaults. I could not in my gear. I would say that a person training in it for years, could wear heavy plate all day even in town. My P.C.s don't however as its considered unnecessary and draws too much attention not to mention its pretentious.
Tony Vargas 04-10-04, 08:34 PM	It depends on the armor, the town, and the characters. Heavy armor is uncomfortable and inconvenient - even if you can fight really, really well in it, it still gives you an armor check penalty, and I can't see how it wouldn't be inapropriate in most everyday situations. Medium Armor - most of which leaves your limbs relatively free - is probably a lot easier to deal with. It's probably easier to deal with for others, psychologically, as well. Ordinary townsfolk see someone in full, heavy armor, they might think trouble is emminent - anything less than that, though, might just be seen as a sign of station. Light Armor is probably OK. You can sleep in it, you can probably do most activities in it. But, it might arouse some suspicion in more civilized venues - as it might well be associated with rogues and less-successful mercenaries, and the like (potential trouble-makers). Some armor is just contextually apropriate. An elf in elven chain is going to draw more stares for wearing an increadibly valuable work of art, than for the fact that it happens to be armor. A knight at a tourney - and many other situtations - could be expected to wear armor and bear weapons. A priest of a deity associated with war and/or protection might wear armor and weapons in public, as a symol - as well as practical tools - of his duty. Some characters are downright dependent on heavy armor: they don't have high DEX bonuses or class abilities to boost thier AC - if they're not really confident about not being attacked, they'll want to keep some armor on. Others - like Barbarians - might not ever feel save enough: danger and battle is just too much a part of thier lives.
Edymnion 04-10-04, 09:50 PM	There is also the Glamour enchantment for armor, make it LOOK like townie clothes while still wearing full plate. Generally though, I think it depends on the area, like was already said. If you're in a big city, I doubt people are going to look at you twice unless you're wearing heavy armor. If you're in a small hamlett, the local kids are going to be flocking around you if you're in so much as leather armor, just because they would likely have never seen anyone wearing real armor before. Only two kinds of armor I can see being completely hideable, a chain shirt (Really, I own a steel chainmail shirt, once you get it on, you can EASILY put a T-Shirt over it, and nobody would be the wiser. I've actually gone walking around in downtown Atlanta after dark in my chainmail for protection from knife weilding muggers, and nobody ever looked twice at me.) and a suit of padded armor. Anything else though, it all depends on what kind of place you're in. A frontier city populated by nothing but Warriors and Fighters aren't going to care if you're decked out in full plate. Little backwater Two Rivers type villiage, you're likely to get a gaggle of children following you around if you so much as wear a sword out in the open.
sparkster4242 04-11-04, 02:42 AM	most of my characters try to _never_ remove their armor. it seems like every time they wander into town (or wander _out_ of town) they get sucked into some hairy situation or other. some of them _do_ keep a nice shiny chain shirt or decorated leather for social engagements, tho. glamered armor is nice, and hats of disguise are a worthy investment also. and oh yes, how a character is dressed provides lots of clues to his class (or at least his profession). one of my favorite rogues wears dark blue robes for a reason :P
Spongly 04-11-04, 03:44 AM	Originally posted by RobTzu I would say that a person training in it for years, could wear heavy plate all day even in town. My P.C.s don't however as its considered unnecessary and draws too much attention not to mention its pretentious. You COULD wear heavy plate all day, but inaddition to the problems you mentioned, it makes you look like a psychopath. Imagine the reactions if you wandered around a city centre in all of your combat gear, including weapons...I'd imagine an armed response team wouldn't be far behind you.
Bluebrush 04-11-04, 09:39 AM	Originally posted by sparkster4242 one of my favorite rogues wears dark blue robes for a reason :P Doesn't that make you the first target in combat though? "Look! A wizard!" "Quick! Shoot him!" "d4 hit die? Easy!" It's not really metagaming to know that wizards tend to be wussy bookworms.
Edymnion 04-11-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Bluebrush Doesn't that make you the first target in combat though? "Look! A wizard!" "Quick! Shoot him!" "d4 hit die? Easy!" It's not really metagaming to know that wizards tend to be wussy bookworms. Yeah, really. My Sorceress wears a mithril shirt and carries a spear for this sort of reason. Makes her look like a melee monkey stuck in the back lines, at least until she flies up and rains down lightning bolts on the impure... :D
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-11-04, 10:34 PM	I think in all my days of gaming I have only ever done one wizard who wore robes. Mainly because the "Man in a dress" is always target one. (Nevron was always blasting from the first moment anyways, so disguise was a moot point)
Thorak 04-12-04, 12:02 AM	Originally posted by Eldren (actual full plate was so heavy that knights wearing it had to be winched onto their horses) to be able to walk around in the stuff casually, much less be able to move at even three times your normal movement rate, swing a huge two-handed weapon with reliability, etc. This has already been refuted, but a little more thoroughly here; The only knights ever winched onto their horses, historically, were either too fat to do so on their own (and therefore, this had nothing to do with the armor), or they were wearing the heaviest armors that were used solely for the joust in the very, very latest forms of that event. Sure, this armor was too heavy to get on your horse with. It was also too heavy to really walk effectively, or do much besides hold the lance, aim it, and not fall off the horse. If we're talking about armor intended for combat, it was designed from the get-go for mobility. If an armoured man was unhorsed, he had to be able to get up on his own. Otherwise, he would die a nasty death, or even possibly drown in the mud of the battlefield. Obviously, this wasn't desireable, so armor wasn't designed that heavily. Because that would be suicidal. You had to be able to move fairly freely to stay alive, plate armor was heavy, but overall better than even most modern combat armors (as has already been mentioned), if only because the complex straps locked each piece to each body part; the forearm held the weight of the gauntlet, the calf held the shin guard, etc. The only thing weighing on the shoulders were the breast- and back-plates, the pauldrons (shoulder plates), and the helmet. Everything else was hanging from something else. A suit of chain, however, hangs entirely from the shoulders; a full shirt was said to be more difficult to wear than a suit of plate, just from the extra weight on the shoulders, even if the shirt weighed less overall.
Tegarius 04-12-04, 01:49 AM	Well I have a character that wears a heavier armor in town for role-playing purposes. He normally wears studded, but when in town he wears a tool belt that covers his body and provides portection like scale. But he is a gnome gearsmith and it doesn't seem too odd. All my other characters tend to wear no armor, or armor light enough to wear under your clothing. Then again i usually play characters with high dex scores, so this might not help.
Vahenir 04-12-04, 07:48 PM	(actual full plate was so heavy that knights wearing it had to be winched onto their horses) A gross farcity. In addition to what Roland already said: It should be remembered that no one in the Medieval era would have worn anything as ARMOUR that would actually put their safety in question. The -fact- is that full plate is very easy to wear, sometimes even easier to wear than mail, and an athletic person (which people who wore it back then definitely were) are even able to do cartwheels in it. And no, it's not all that heavy - plus the weight being better distributed makes it seem very "light" to someone who knows how to use it.
Edymnion 04-12-04, 09:33 PM	Originally posted by Vahenir A gross farcity. In addition to what Roland already said: It should be remembered that no one in the Medieval era would have worn anything as ARMOUR that would actually put their safety in question. The -fact- is that full plate is very easy to wear, sometimes even easier to wear than mail, and an athletic person (which people who wore it back then definitely were) are even able to do cartwheels in it. And no, it's not all that heavy - plus the weight being better distributed makes it seem very "light" to someone who knows how to use it. Yup, I've seen people wearing recreations of actual combat field plate (aka full plate in D&D terms). The could run, they could do commando rolls, and they could even JUMP into the saddle of their horse. Not mount using the stirrups, but run up and leap into the saddle. The stuff is fitted so that it doesn't feel half as heavy as it really is once you're in the stuff. They weren't men in tin cans, they were men in well fitted steel armor that afforded them maximum protection, while allowing them to retain maximum mobility. We would still be wearing the stuff if the gun hadn't come along and made heavy armor obsolete.
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-12-04, 10:22 PM	A lot of people see how slow actors in movies move in the stuff and assume it was really like that. Keep in mind that actors don't train in armor for years.
Edymnion 04-12-04, 11:07 PM	Originally posted by Roland the Crownbreaker A lot of people see how slow actors in movies move in the stuff and assume it was really like that. Keep in mind that actors don't train in armor for years. And that the actors are wearing sheet metal that looks like armor. A real suit of fitted platemail costs ya approx $15,000 a suit. Trust me, those movie suits typically aren't made for mobility or comfort, just for looks. Its like the differance between a wall-hanging sword thats just for show, and a well balanced full tang blade made for real combat.
danielinthewolvesden 04-13-04, 01:53 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion And that the actors are wearing sheet metal that looks like armor. A real suit of fitted platemail costs ya approx $15,000 a suit. Trust me, those movie suits typically aren't made for mobility or comfort, just for looks. Its like the differance between a wall-hanging sword thats just for show, and a well balanced full tang blade made for real combat. Well, you're right about the "movie armour" but a good suit of plate can be bought from an SCA armourer for a tenth that. I have worn plate, and chain, and brigantine. Never done sommersaults in the stuff, but have done some pretty amazing stuff. As Robtzu noted- wearing that stuff is uncomfortable in hot weather. But I could easily wear a chainshirt all day, and have taken a nap in my SCA-legal armour (well, I took the helm off- those things are HOT & STUFFY!) The worst amour to wear would be the Hv armour that isn't fitted full plate. That is "plate mail' (what the guys at WotC call "half plate" which is wrong) and other such. I'd have to say that almost every set of "full plate' would be (in game terms) "masterwork'. "Around town" you'd wear a chainshirt or a breastplate, or perhaps REAL "half plate" (which is rather similar to a breastplate in 3rd ED terms). In "real medieval times" only a knight or a member of the guard would wear armour openly- well... except a "jack" or "jerkin". A sword would be carried by any member of the gentility (which would be most adventurers). Yeomen often carried their bows into the local tavern after practice.
Edymnion 04-13-04, 06:17 PM	Originally posted by danielinthewolvesden Well, you're right about the "movie armour" but a good suit of plate can be bought from an SCA armourer for a tenth that. Yeah, but thats SCA. Thats still essentially sheet metal beat into shape. Unless the guys in your branch of the SCA are hammering the plates out from yellow hot iron bars. Price I was quoting came from a guy that litterally builds these things from nothing more than bars of iron and sheets of leather.
danielinthewolvesden 04-14-04, 08:27 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion Yeah, but thats SCA. Thats still essentially sheet metal beat into shape. Unless the guys in your branch of the SCA are hammering the plates out from yellow hot iron bars. Price I was quoting came from a guy that litterally builds these things from nothing more than bars of iron and sheets of leather. Indded, some of our smiths start from scratch. And SCA armour is usuually a heavier gauge than period armour. Not to mention a better steel. But in the late middle ages, and even earlier, the specialized weapon & armour smiths didn't start from scratch, either. For example, there was a "facotry" that made 'sword blanks" in Germany, and those blanks were forged into the actual blade, etc by more specialized smiths elsewhere. They also had smithies that made sheet metal, too.
Edymnion 04-14-04, 09:54 PM	Originally posted by danielinthewolvesden Indded, some of our smiths start from scratch. And SCA armour is usuually a heavier gauge than period armour. Not to mention a better steel. Well, heavier gauge steel does not mean it makes better armor, it means it makes heavier armor with little added defense. But still, if you know somebody that would make a suit of full plate from scratch for $1,500 you really need to buy all you can get him to make you, and turn around and sell 'em for 10x that price. I don't know ANYBODY that sells a complete suit of usable full plate for that low of a price.
Darth K'Trava 04-15-04, 08:13 PM	Originally posted by Nived This is why I love the Called Armor enchatment. Its detailed in the Defenders of the Faith splatbook. A cleric of mine once actually got his hands on +1 Called Fullplate, so with a command word his armor would appear correctly donned as a standard action. Even when better armor occationally was found I let the fighter and paladin fight over it because I loved that called armor so much. I love that enchantment so much as well! :D That cleric usually wore priestly robes, made it fun RP when someone who looks like an easy target suddenly becomes a very well armored one. Even if one of the other players kept calling him the Power Ranger Cleric.... Mine would just wear simple travelling garb all the time as we were usually out on the road alot and if trouble presented itself, there'd be a command word spoken and now the "casually dressed cleric" became "Ms. Clank-A-Lot Cleric" :D Re: Power Ranger Cleric: :rofl: About as bad as the "Rainbow Warrior" cleric we had one time 'cause the sorcerer made his armor rainbow colored...... :D That was funny! Its such a handy enchantment that its become one of the more common enchantments found on armor in campaigns I run. In ours as well! It's mucho handy! Beats having someone else divert themselves to have to "dress the cleric" before combat..... Although some might enjoy that..... :D There should be a "Dismiss Armor" enchantment as well...... Or is that automatically "built in"?
Darth K'Trava 04-15-04, 08:15 PM	Originally posted by Roland the Crownbreaker Oh come on, we all know that PC's live in thier armor. Everything, and I mean everything is done without taking it off. Haven't you seen Excalibur? <obvious sarcasm> :rofl: You know that doing that one thing had to HURT!
Thermanshs 04-15-04, 08:29 PM	Originally posted by exploding_brain How about NPCs? Can you identify what class you are encountering based on the armor your DM puts the NPC in? No not at all...in real life there are no sign-plates above someone's head writing...HIT ME!I'M THE FIGHTER OF THE PARTY! or...TRY CASTING CONTAGION ON ME!I'M THE PALADIN ON THAT SCENARIO!...A character in heavy armor DOES look powerfull but no labels exist in a real world....I once heard from a party that they could identify the level of a character with a single look... How the heck could that be done?!Do higher level characters look bigger or something?Another similar criterion often used by characters to determine what class a foe NPC might be is comparing their level with the average encounter level for their case... -Does he look armored? -No -Then he can't be a fighter...ALL HIGH LEVEL fighters wear full plate! Mottos like these and even more really drive me nuts!Try visualise the game from its realistic side...noone can tell you for sure what you're gonna encounter next day nor canhe assure you that it'll be challenging but not overpowered or piece of cake...there are some things that are shown on paper ONLY so keep them aside when taking such decisions and you'll see how rewarding this can be...
Edymnion 04-15-04, 10:56 PM	Well, there are some rather key markers that become apparent at higher levels. The Wizards are not wearing full plate. If they are wearing full plate, you can be pretty darn sure they aren't arcane spell casters. If they are wearing full plate, and it has the symbol of a god on it or the shield, chances are they are either a Cleric or a Paladin. If they are wearing robes and carrying a big stick, chances are they are a wizard or a sorcerer. If they are wearing rhino hide armor and carrying a greataxe, pretty safe bet they are a Barbarian. If they aren't wearing any metal and have a big wolf standing next to them, they're a druid. Not all classes are going to do this, but when they do, its a pretty sure bet who they are. You really can tell the general function of someone by the armor they wear.
Thorak 04-16-04, 10:44 AM	Originally posted by Edymnion Well, there are some rather key markers that become apparent at higher levels. The Wizards are not wearing full plate. If they are wearing full plate, you can be pretty darn sure they aren't arcane spell casters. Or they're Spellswords (I think that's the CW PrC that gets mucho arcane spell failure reduction) with Mithral Full Plate. Sure, they're not as good a caster, but they're definetely wizards of some kind. If they are wearing full plate, and it has the symbol of a god on it or the shield, chances are they are either a Cleric or a Paladin. Or a devout Fighter. Or a barbarian who happened on a really nifty set of awesome holy Full Plate, and could care less about the 10' speed loss. If they are wearing robes and carrying a big stick, chances are they are a wizard or a sorcerer. Or a thief who doesn't wear armor because it interferes with things too much. Or a Cleric who has some non-armor protection on (like Bracers of Armor or some such), or even who doesn't fight in melee. Or, for that matter, a monk with a quarterstaff. If they are wearing rhino hide armor and carrying a greataxe, pretty safe bet they are a Barbarian. Pretty safe bet, yes. But could be a Fighter or Paladin too, easily, or even a Cleric. If they aren't wearing any metal and have a big wolf standing next to them, they're a druid. Or a ranger. Or a barbarian with a pet. Not all classes are going to do this, but when they do, its a pretty sure bet who they are. You really can tell the general function of someone by the armor they wear. The closest you can generally assume is "Heavy armor- whack-em type warrior, light armor - dextrous fighter/rogue/spellcaster. No armor - anyone who doesn't want armor, could be a wizard, a monk, or someone with magical items to compensate." You can get a general idea, yes, but not as specific as you got, hence my comments.
Edymnion 04-16-04, 11:10 AM	Originally posted by Thorak Or a devout Fighter. Or a barbarian who happened on a really nifty set of awesome holy Full Plate, and could care less about the 10' speed loss.Actually, it would be a 20' speed loss, cutting them in half. Barbarian only gets his extra speed when in light armor, and the Full Plate limits you 20' per round anyway. Or a thief who doesn't wear armor because it interferes with things too much. Or a Cleric who has some non-armor protection on (like Bracers of Armor or some such), or even who doesn't fight in melee. Or, for that matter, a monk with a quarterstaff.A thief wouldn't be carrying a staff around, while a monk typically wouldn't be wearing a big bulky robe. Or a ranger. Or a barbarian with a pet.Non-metal armor. A ranger would likely be in at least Studded Leather, if not a chain shirt/breastplate. A barbarian that goes to the trouble of catching and training a large wolf as a travelling companion is not going to be very common. The closest you can generally assume is "Heavy armor- whack-em type warrior, light armor - dextrous fighter/rogue/spellcaster. No armor - anyone who doesn't want armor, could be a wizard, a monk, or someone with magical items to compensate." You can get a general idea, yes, but not as specific as you got, hence my comments. You get a general idea, yes. And you can often get a pretty darn good bet on exactly what class they are from the description, unless the Player/DM has gone out of their way to intentionally make them look like something else. Just like real life. If I see somebody on TV walking down the street in camo fatigues carrying an M16, its a pretty safe bet they are a soldier. If they're wearing a long white coat with a stethoscope hanging around their neck, they're a doctor. I see somebody in a building in an expensive italian suit carrying a briefcase and a talking on a cell phone, its usually a very safe bet that they aren't a plumber. Could they be something other than they appear? Yes. Could they be something and not give any outward signs? Yes. But generally, you can sum up a professional by the things they wear. You might not be able to tell the differance between a highly successful Accountant and a Board Member, but you can pretty much tell right away that they are a business person and not the janitor.
Tony Vargas 04-16-04, 03:49 PM	While you can't gauge exact class and levels, you should be able to tell quite a lot by just checking someone out. A character in all-masterwork-everything, with ioun stones whirling around his head is probably higher level than the bloke in ordinary scalemail - he probably carries himself differently, too, even if he's trying not to (Sense Motive, anyone?). But, you can't count on such things. They guy in the robes covered with arcane-looking symbols carrying a staff /could/ be a wiz... or he could be a cleric of boccob in galmoured armor... or he could be a monk. If a party really wanted to, they could confuse the heck out of people. The arcanist could wear a monk's outfit (all those little folds and pockets hold spell components just fine). The monk could wear the afore-mentioned arcane-looking robe. The cleric could carry a couple of martial weapons, and retain only a simple wooden holy symbol, while the fighter carries a mace and keeps the weapon he's specialized in stored in a magic gauntlet and blazons holy symbols all over his armor and shield... The raven on the 'wizard's shoulder is the party druid, and his animal companion is stalking along next to the hide-armor-wearing, scimitar-&-wooden-shield-toting barbarian, while the half-orc in the chain shirt with the double-ax is the party's rogue....
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-16-04, 04:23 PM	A thief wouldn't be carrying a staff around, Use Magic Device Any bard worth his salt will invest in this skill, as will many rogues. Not to mention the fact that thieves are exactly the type of person who will try to look like something they are not. They don't introduce themselves with "Hello, my name is Lidda and I rob and steal for a living" after all. (many illusionists don't advertise for the same reason) It tends to put a target on guard.
c10v3 04-16-04, 09:25 PM	nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
bitnine 04-16-04, 09:29 PM	Originally posted by c10v3 nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You make an excellent counter-point.
Remnant 04-16-04, 11:05 PM	As long as we're playing with perceptions, I've always thought it would be fun to deck a single class wizard out in full plate, but stilling every spell and using your feats on armor profs. would make it kind of a pain. Not to mention that the illusion only holds until you get full attacked by a melee monster.
Leap 04-19-04, 09:00 AM	All armour is hot, stuff and chafes, and if it is metal plate based is so fragging noisy it is likely to get the PC jumped by anyone in earshot. It does not however generally encumber general movement (such would be lethal on a battle field) only speed of movement and real nimble toed stuff…
Lagomorph 04-19-04, 04:50 PM	regarding the original question, i think that its all a matter of the world, the characters' personalities, and their previous experiences. someone who wants people to think that theyre a tough fighter might wear their armor all the time. if the characters have gotten into bloody battles in the last 4 towns theyve entered, theyd probably wear their armor in the streets. its all a matter of the past and roleplaying.
Quenditar 04-19-04, 05:14 PM	Originally posted by Remnant As long as we're playing with perceptions, I've always thought it would be fun to deck a single class wizard out in full plate, but stilling every spell and using your feats on armor profs. would make it kind of a pain. Not to mention that the illusion only holds until you get full attacked by a melee monster. Even better, it would be fun to use disguise self and make the wizard look like a fighter, down to the sword. It wouldn't last very long against anything smart enough to be fooled, but it would be funny.
MageofMyth 04-19-04, 09:15 PM	Having played under DMs that steal anything left in Inns and attack characters whenever they take off their armor, all of my characters go out into towns in the same gear as they would go into a dungeon. Although they might wear a nicer cloak, if the other one isn’t magical.
Slyde Shadowdart 04-20-04, 08:37 AM	Originally posted by Edymnion A thief wouldn't be carrying a staff around, while a monk typically wouldn't be wearing a big bulky robe. Take that quote, and several other statements that have been made about how "wearing/looking like X denotes Y." "You're walking along and a halfling, wearing brown robes tied at the waist with a strand of rope and carrying a white quarterstaff and with his eyes on the ground directly in front of him, bumps into your leg." "I beg your pardon, m'lord." He mumbles as he moves past you. Make a spot check. <you succede> Ok, as he bumps into you, you look down his robe and catch a glimmer of gold from what appears to resemble a holy symbol of some kind. <Later on, as you try to fish out some coin to pay for a leg of lamb from a street vendor> You seem to have misplaced your coin purse. Make an WIS check. <you succede> You remember that earlier in the day, a halfling bumped into your leg rather roughly."