Class issues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Class issues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MasonMurdoc
06-05-07, 05:42 PM I'm currently struggling to decide what class I wan to be before this campaign starts. My DM is pressuring me to be healer but I have no intrest in being none of the core or complete divine divine casters.

I was wondering if there were any intresting healer types out there.
windscar18
06-05-07, 05:47 PM Here's a fun one: Be a Neutral Good Wizard/Sorcerer, get 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion), and then you qualify for the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) feat. Throw in Spontaneous Healer too :D.

The main problem with this is that you need a both really high INT/CHA AND really high WIS, and that really high WIS is only for one reasonably minor effect...

Really, if that doesn't work, the only thing I can think of is be a Tome of Battle class and get Devoted Spirit (which almost immediately pigeonholes you into Crusader), but Crusader is no replacement for a true healer.

If you have confidence in your group's ability to finish a battle before any really needs healing, you could always just get a class with Use Magic Device (AKA Rogue) and spam Wand of Cure Light Wounds everywhere.
MasonMurdoc
06-05-07, 06:02 PM Here's a fun one: Be a Neutral Good Wizard/Sorcerer, get 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion), and then you qualify for the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) feat. Throw in Spontaneous Healer too :D.

The main problem with this is that you need a both really high INT/CHA AND really high WIS, and that really high WIS is only for one reasonably minor effect...

Really, if that doesn't work, the only thing I can think of is be a Tome of Battle class and get Devoted Spirit (which almost immediately pigeonholes you into Crusader), but Crusader is no replacement for a true healer.

If you have confidence in your group's ability to finish a battle before any really needs healing, you could always just get a class with Use Magic Device (AKA Rogue) and spam Wand of Cure Light Wounds everywhere.

Is that in Complete Divine, or Arcane?

Problem with that is My highest is 17 and notheing goes higher than 15 after that
StoneStokes
06-05-07, 07:56 PM Here is an idea involving Cleric. I know you said you aren't interested in core classes, but hear me out.

Take 3 levels of Cleric, and then take 1 level of Warlock (Complete Arcane) somewhere in there. For your 5th level, you qualify for Eldritch Disciple (Complete Mage), which is Cleric with invocations. Ultimately you give up 2 levels of cleric spellcasting, but gain invocations AND spells for those and all later levels.

Abilities: Cha 17, Wis 15, focus your cleric on turn undead (ask your DM if this is worthwhile).

Alternatively, the Healer (Miniatures Handbook) makes great use of high Charisma. Take 3 levels of Healer instead of the 3 levels of Cleric. You get to add your Cha bonus to all of your cure... spells. The only downside of this over Cleric is that you don't get turn undead (which would continue to progress in Eldritch Disciple if you have it).
EvilDeathBee
06-05-07, 07:59 PM You could go paladin (or for those who hate being lawful, there's paladin of freedom ect.). Some healing, craploads of damage, a few spells.
Salla
06-05-07, 07:59 PM Let's see ... the Warlock gets UMD, and at 4th level can take 10 on it, meaning that a total +9 modifier at 4th level means you can use a wand with 100 percent reliability. You could, effectively, play healer with wands.

The Crusader was mentioned as a fairly weak alternative (in terms of healing ... not in terms of whoopass)... the Artificer, if the Eberron Campaign Setting is used, can craft and use healing items.

There's also the PHBII's dragon shaman, which can give his allies (and himself) fast healing, although only up to half HP.
MasonMurdoc
06-05-07, 08:01 PM Here is an idea involving Cleric. I know you said you aren't interested in core classes, but hear me out.

Take 3 levels of Cleric, and then take 1 level of Warlock (Complete Arcane) somewhere in there. For your 5th level, you qualify for Eldritch Disciple (Complete Mage), which is Cleric with invocations. Ultimately you give up 2 levels of cleric spellcasting, but gain invocations AND spells for those and all later levels.

Abilities: Cha 17, Wis 15, focus your cleric on turn undead (ask your DM if this is worthwhile).

Alternatively, the Healer (Miniatures Handbook) makes great use of high Charisma. Take 3 levels of Healer instead of the 3 levels of Cleric. You get to add your Cha bonus to all of your cure... spells. The only downside of this over Cleric is that you don't get turn undead (which would continue to progress in Eldritch Disciple if you have it).

I'll have to ask my DM about using Warlock, and Eldritch Disciple.
That sounds pretty cool. Thanks.
More suggestions are good though :D
MasonMurdoc
06-05-07, 08:07 PM You could go paladin (or for those who hate being lawful, there's paladin of freedom ect.). Some healing, craploads of damage, a few spells.

I did consider a Paladin, but the other 6 players are Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral. If I was one I'd rather be an actual Paladin.

Let's see ... the Warlock gets UMD, and at 4th level can take 10 on it, meaning that a total +9 modifier at 4th level means you can use a wand with 100 percent reliability. You could, effectively, play healer with wands.

The Crusader was mentioned as a fairly weak alternative (in terms of healing ... not in terms of whoopass)... the Artificer, if the Eberron Campaign Setting is used, can craft and use healing items.

There's also the PHBII's dragon shaman, which can give his allies (and himself) fast healing, although only up to half HP.

I'll see what my DM says about a Worlock, but I don't think he's to keen on them. We're not using Eberron unfortunatly. I'll have a look at the Dragon Shaman though.
StoneStokes
06-05-07, 10:39 PM Here is what I suggest if your DM isn't keen on Warlocks (for the record, I wasn't really keen on them, as DM, either until I saw them in play).

Ask your DM if you can play the first session as a Warlock so that he has a chance to see them in play. If he doesn't like it, you can change characters. This may change his attitude toward them. It worked for me.
Nephlite
06-05-07, 10:56 PM I'm currently struggling to decide what class I wan to be before this campaign starts. My DM is pressuring me to be healer but I have no intrest in being none of the core or complete divine divine casters.

I was wondering if there were any intresting healer types out there.

An Ardent with the life domain can heal at level 1. This is found in Complete Psionics. They get there powers through deep philosophers. The two starting ones are basis for your beliefs: Like Conflict and Life would be "all life is a Conflict"
Really up to you.

They are pretty decent. No god required like divine classes can.
danielinthewolvesden
06-06-07, 03:29 AM Coolest "healer" is the Dragon Shaman. Decent second rank fighter (get a long spear, stand behind the tank). You can keep the party usually at 50% HO with one aura, later on you get real haling (like lay on hands). Cool spell-like auras, and you can breath fire!:dragon:

What is better is that altho you are *A* healer, you are not *THE* healer. Just turn that aura on, tell the boys to stay within 30' and you get to have fun spearing and toasting foes.
MasonMurdoc
06-06-07, 07:45 AM I've actualy wanted to be an Ardent for awhile, but my DM hates Psionices. Also, we don't have Expanded Psionics so don't know what most of the powers do.
I'll definatly look at the Dragon Shaman if I get the chance.

Is the Dread Necromancer a good class?
I know it's not a healer, but I initialy wanted to be Sorcorer Necromancer that uses he abilities for the greater good.
windscar18
06-06-07, 11:50 AM Dread Necromancer is one of those "meh" classes, the types that have limited spellbooks but a ton of abilities to boot.

However, I believe that it does not gain the spell Undead General which is pretty important for a necromancer. Perhaps try the True Necromancer prestige class? I don't remember what book it's from, but it levels up both divine and arcane spellcasting and centers them both on necromancy.
Nephlite
06-06-07, 01:39 PM Dread Necromancer is one of those "meh" classes, the types that have limited spellbooks but a ton of abilities to boot.

However, I believe that it does not gain the spell Undead General which is pretty important for a necromancer. Perhaps try the True Necromancer prestige class? I don't remember what book it's from, but it levels up both divine and arcane spellcasting and centers them both on necromancy.

Dread Neco does gain Turn at level 2. It is in Heroes of Horror.
MasonMurdoc
06-06-07, 02:13 PM Dread Necromancer is one of those "meh" classes, the types that have limited spellbooks but a ton of abilities to boot.

However, I believe that it does not gain the spell Undead General which is pretty important for a necromancer. Perhaps try the True Necromancer prestige class? I don't remember what book it's from, but it levels up both divine and arcane spellcasting and centers them both on necromancy.

Where can I fin 'Undead General'?
I cant seem to find it in Tome of Horrors

Also, what would make a better Necromacer, Sorcorer or Dread Necromancer?
BoringInfoGuy
06-06-07, 02:27 PM I'm currently struggling to decide what class I wan to be before this campaign starts. My DM is pressuring me to be healer but I have no intrest in being none of the core or complete divine divine casters.

I was wondering if there were any intresting healer types out there.

Tell your DM no. You have no interest in playing a divine caster this game. Why should he force you to play something you won't enjoy? Is it really worth your time to play in a game where you are pressured into playing characters the DM wants?

If he won't give you reasonable freedom of choice in character creation, then can you expect to have reasonable freedom of choice for your character at all?

What are you interested in?
Nephlite
06-06-07, 02:40 PM Where can I fin 'Undead General'?
I cant seem to find it in Tome of Horrors

Also, what would make a better Necromacer, Sorcorer or Dread Necromancer?

Sorceror: advantages..have non necromancy spells... um, Control Undead spell (awesome spell).

Dread Necromancer: boosts for undead making, Turning undead for controlling them, necromancy spells...

Advantage Dread Necromancer :D

Now did you mean undead using necromancer or necromancy spells like Ray of enfeeblement and chill touch?
MasonMurdoc
06-06-07, 03:37 PM Sorceror: advantages..have non necromancy spells... um, Control Undead spell (awesome spell).

Dread Necromancer: boosts for undead making, Turning undead for controlling them, necromancy spells...

Advantage Dread Necromancer :D

Now did you mean undead using necromancer or necromancy spells like Ray of enfeeblement and chill touch?

Undead using Necromancer. Zombie Hordes are fun. :)

What are you interested in?
Zombie Hordes :D
My DM isn't all bad. He asked us to be an optimized group at the beginning but we decided to just pick what we want.
The only healer we have is a Druid, and theres five others(making 7)
Pyro_Azer
06-06-07, 10:02 PM How about being a bard? they can heal some.
StoneStokes
06-07-07, 12:54 AM How about being a bard? they can heal some.
I was going to suggest the same thing. Once you get a wand of cure light wounds, the bard can heal a lot.
MasonMurdoc
06-07-07, 06:32 AM I thought about it, but would rather be a Necromancer. Besides, theres already a Bard in the group.

Dread Necromancers the way I wanna go.
Hack and Smasher
06-07-07, 09:10 AM Crusader can heal, and it can cure the monsters of ugly.
Potato Weasel
06-07-07, 09:51 AM Really, if there's a bard and a druid already, there's a decent amount of healing in the party and you shouldnt be forced to play a full on healer.

Go with the build you want.
northern_bear
06-07-07, 09:52 AM My DM is pressuring me to be healer

Play whatever kind of character you want. Put a bunch of ranks into use magic device. Tell the DM if he wants a healer so bad he can go ahead and give the party (you) some wands of cure wounds.
BW0222
06-07-07, 11:21 AM MasonMurdoc,

I'll agree with Northern_Bear. Play what you want. Let someone else be the healer or consider playing without a healer to be an interesting challenge.

Lots of classes can use a wand of cure light wounds -- bard, ranger, paladin, etc. Rogue can also UMD it. If you have any of these classes, you can always carry a wand of cure light or you can buy one and give it to another PC.
MasonMurdoc
06-07-07, 12:10 PM *Sigh* I'm not sure what I want to be any more
First I want to be a Sorcorer Necromancer, then I was gonna be a (secretly) evil Rogue but my DM decide it was a bad idea, I then came back to the Necromancer idea with the Dread Necromancer, then I thought about a Bard with bagpipes.

All in all, I'm not sure what I want to be a have no inspiration. :(
Lana "Silvertongue"
06-09-07, 11:21 PM Don't worry about prestiging, just figure out what niche your interested in filling. What is the party filled with? When you get a party with more than 4 or 5 players its easier to look at what holes there might be... Ie do you have a ranged fighter? melee fighter? Key flanker? Summoner? I mean you have to critically look at your team.... I use this checklist. (yes some people fit multiple slots, n if you find all these filled with names, then talk to the one you want to do and see if that "friend" will scale back for you to focus better on another one.)
Fighterish melee:
Ranged artillery:
Face/Skills:
Buffer:
Blaster:
Healer:
Scout/Tracker:
Battlefield control:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MasonMurdoc 06-05-07, 05:42 PM	I'm currently struggling to decide what class I wan to be before this campaign starts. My DM is pressuring me to be healer but I have no intrest in being none of the core or complete divine divine casters. I was wondering if there were any intresting healer types out there.
windscar18 06-05-07, 05:47 PM	Here's a fun one: Be a Neutral Good Wizard/Sorcerer, get 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion), and then you qualify for the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) feat. Throw in Spontaneous Healer too :D. The main problem with this is that you need a both really high INT/CHA AND really high WIS, and that really high WIS is only for one reasonably minor effect... Really, if that doesn't work, the only thing I can think of is be a Tome of Battle class and get Devoted Spirit (which almost immediately pigeonholes you into Crusader), but Crusader is no replacement for a true healer. If you have confidence in your group's ability to finish a battle before any really needs healing, you could always just get a class with Use Magic Device (AKA Rogue) and spam Wand of Cure Light Wounds everywhere.
MasonMurdoc 06-05-07, 06:02 PM	Here's a fun one: Be a Neutral Good Wizard/Sorcerer, get 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion), and then you qualify for the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) feat. Throw in Spontaneous Healer too :D. The main problem with this is that you need a both really high INT/CHA AND really high WIS, and that really high WIS is only for one reasonably minor effect... Really, if that doesn't work, the only thing I can think of is be a Tome of Battle class and get Devoted Spirit (which almost immediately pigeonholes you into Crusader), but Crusader is no replacement for a true healer. If you have confidence in your group's ability to finish a battle before any really needs healing, you could always just get a class with Use Magic Device (AKA Rogue) and spam Wand of Cure Light Wounds everywhere. Is that in Complete Divine, or Arcane? Problem with that is My highest is 17 and notheing goes higher than 15 after that
StoneStokes 06-05-07, 07:56 PM	Here is an idea involving Cleric. I know you said you aren't interested in core classes, but hear me out. Take 3 levels of Cleric, and then take 1 level of Warlock (Complete Arcane) somewhere in there. For your 5th level, you qualify for Eldritch Disciple (Complete Mage), which is Cleric with invocations. Ultimately you give up 2 levels of cleric spellcasting, but gain invocations AND spells for those and all later levels. Abilities: Cha 17, Wis 15, focus your cleric on turn undead (ask your DM if this is worthwhile). Alternatively, the Healer (Miniatures Handbook) makes great use of high Charisma. Take 3 levels of Healer instead of the 3 levels of Cleric. You get to add your Cha bonus to all of your cure... spells. The only downside of this over Cleric is that you don't get turn undead (which would continue to progress in Eldritch Disciple if you have it).
EvilDeathBee 06-05-07, 07:59 PM	You could go paladin (or for those who hate being lawful, there's paladin of freedom ect.). Some healing, craploads of damage, a few spells.
Salla 06-05-07, 07:59 PM	Let's see ... the Warlock gets UMD, and at 4th level can take 10 on it, meaning that a total +9 modifier at 4th level means you can use a wand with 100 percent reliability. You could, effectively, play healer with wands. The Crusader was mentioned as a fairly weak alternative (in terms of healing ... not in terms of whoopass)... the Artificer, if the Eberron Campaign Setting is used, can craft and use healing items. There's also the PHBII's dragon shaman, which can give his allies (and himself) fast healing, although only up to half HP.
MasonMurdoc 06-05-07, 08:01 PM	Here is an idea involving Cleric. I know you said you aren't interested in core classes, but hear me out. Take 3 levels of Cleric, and then take 1 level of Warlock (Complete Arcane) somewhere in there. For your 5th level, you qualify for Eldritch Disciple (Complete Mage), which is Cleric with invocations. Ultimately you give up 2 levels of cleric spellcasting, but gain invocations AND spells for those and all later levels. Abilities: Cha 17, Wis 15, focus your cleric on turn undead (ask your DM if this is worthwhile). Alternatively, the Healer (Miniatures Handbook) makes great use of high Charisma. Take 3 levels of Healer instead of the 3 levels of Cleric. You get to add your Cha bonus to all of your cure... spells. The only downside of this over Cleric is that you don't get turn undead (which would continue to progress in Eldritch Disciple if you have it). I'll have to ask my DM about using Warlock, and Eldritch Disciple. That sounds pretty cool. Thanks. More suggestions are good though :D
MasonMurdoc 06-05-07, 08:07 PM	You could go paladin (or for those who hate being lawful, there's paladin of freedom ect.). Some healing, craploads of damage, a few spells. I did consider a Paladin, but the other 6 players are Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral. If I was one I'd rather be an actual Paladin. Let's see ... the Warlock gets UMD, and at 4th level can take 10 on it, meaning that a total +9 modifier at 4th level means you can use a wand with 100 percent reliability. You could, effectively, play healer with wands. The Crusader was mentioned as a fairly weak alternative (in terms of healing ... not in terms of whoopass)... the Artificer, if the Eberron Campaign Setting is used, can craft and use healing items. There's also the PHBII's dragon shaman, which can give his allies (and himself) fast healing, although only up to half HP. I'll see what my DM says about a Worlock, but I don't think he's to keen on them. We're not using Eberron unfortunatly. I'll have a look at the Dragon Shaman though.
StoneStokes 06-05-07, 10:39 PM	Here is what I suggest if your DM isn't keen on Warlocks (for the record, I wasn't really keen on them, as DM, either until I saw them in play). Ask your DM if you can play the first session as a Warlock so that he has a chance to see them in play. If he doesn't like it, you can change characters. This may change his attitude toward them. It worked for me.
Nephlite 06-05-07, 10:56 PM	I'm currently struggling to decide what class I wan to be before this campaign starts. My DM is pressuring me to be healer but I have no intrest in being none of the core or complete divine divine casters. I was wondering if there were any intresting healer types out there. An Ardent with the life domain can heal at level 1. This is found in Complete Psionics. They get there powers through deep philosophers. The two starting ones are basis for your beliefs: Like Conflict and Life would be "all life is a Conflict" Really up to you. They are pretty decent. No god required like divine classes can.
danielinthewolvesden 06-06-07, 03:29 AM	Coolest "healer" is the Dragon Shaman. Decent second rank fighter (get a long spear, stand behind the tank). You can keep the party usually at 50% HO with one aura, later on you get real haling (like lay on hands). Cool spell-like auras, and you can breath fire!:dragon: What is better is that altho you are A healer, you are not THE healer. Just turn that aura on, tell the boys to stay within 30' and you get to have fun spearing and toasting foes.
MasonMurdoc 06-06-07, 07:45 AM	I've actualy wanted to be an Ardent for awhile, but my DM hates Psionices. Also, we don't have Expanded Psionics so don't know what most of the powers do. I'll definatly look at the Dragon Shaman if I get the chance. Is the Dread Necromancer a good class? I know it's not a healer, but I initialy wanted to be Sorcorer Necromancer that uses he abilities for the greater good.
windscar18 06-06-07, 11:50 AM	Dread Necromancer is one of those "meh" classes, the types that have limited spellbooks but a ton of abilities to boot. However, I believe that it does not gain the spell Undead General which is pretty important for a necromancer. Perhaps try the True Necromancer prestige class? I don't remember what book it's from, but it levels up both divine and arcane spellcasting and centers them both on necromancy.
Nephlite 06-06-07, 01:39 PM	Dread Necromancer is one of those "meh" classes, the types that have limited spellbooks but a ton of abilities to boot. However, I believe that it does not gain the spell Undead General which is pretty important for a necromancer. Perhaps try the True Necromancer prestige class? I don't remember what book it's from, but it levels up both divine and arcane spellcasting and centers them both on necromancy. Dread Neco does gain Turn at level 2. It is in Heroes of Horror.
MasonMurdoc 06-06-07, 02:13 PM	Dread Necromancer is one of those "meh" classes, the types that have limited spellbooks but a ton of abilities to boot. However, I believe that it does not gain the spell Undead General which is pretty important for a necromancer. Perhaps try the True Necromancer prestige class? I don't remember what book it's from, but it levels up both divine and arcane spellcasting and centers them both on necromancy. Where can I fin 'Undead General'? I cant seem to find it in Tome of Horrors Also, what would make a better Necromacer, Sorcorer or Dread Necromancer?
BoringInfoGuy 06-06-07, 02:27 PM	I'm currently struggling to decide what class I wan to be before this campaign starts. My DM is pressuring me to be healer but I have no intrest in being none of the core or complete divine divine casters. I was wondering if there were any intresting healer types out there. Tell your DM no. You have no interest in playing a divine caster this game. Why should he force you to play something you won't enjoy? Is it really worth your time to play in a game where you are pressured into playing characters the DM wants? If he won't give you reasonable freedom of choice in character creation, then can you expect to have reasonable freedom of choice for your character at all? What are you interested in?
Nephlite 06-06-07, 02:40 PM	Where can I fin 'Undead General'? I cant seem to find it in Tome of Horrors Also, what would make a better Necromacer, Sorcorer or Dread Necromancer? Sorceror: advantages..have non necromancy spells... um, Control Undead spell (awesome spell). Dread Necromancer: boosts for undead making, Turning undead for controlling them, necromancy spells... Advantage Dread Necromancer :D Now did you mean undead using necromancer or necromancy spells like Ray of enfeeblement and chill touch?
MasonMurdoc 06-06-07, 03:37 PM	Sorceror: advantages..have non necromancy spells... um, Control Undead spell (awesome spell). Dread Necromancer: boosts for undead making, Turning undead for controlling them, necromancy spells... Advantage Dread Necromancer :D Now did you mean undead using necromancer or necromancy spells like Ray of enfeeblement and chill touch? Undead using Necromancer. Zombie Hordes are fun. :) What are you interested in? Zombie Hordes :D My DM isn't all bad. He asked us to be an optimized group at the beginning but we decided to just pick what we want. The only healer we have is a Druid, and theres five others(making 7)
Pyro_Azer 06-06-07, 10:02 PM	How about being a bard? they can heal some.
StoneStokes 06-07-07, 12:54 AM	How about being a bard? they can heal some. I was going to suggest the same thing. Once you get a wand of cure light wounds, the bard can heal a lot.
MasonMurdoc 06-07-07, 06:32 AM	I thought about it, but would rather be a Necromancer. Besides, theres already a Bard in the group. Dread Necromancers the way I wanna go.
Hack and Smasher 06-07-07, 09:10 AM	Crusader can heal, and it can cure the monsters of ugly.
Potato Weasel 06-07-07, 09:51 AM	Really, if there's a bard and a druid already, there's a decent amount of healing in the party and you shouldnt be forced to play a full on healer. Go with the build you want.
northern_bear 06-07-07, 09:52 AM	My DM is pressuring me to be healer Play whatever kind of character you want. Put a bunch of ranks into use magic device. Tell the DM if he wants a healer so bad he can go ahead and give the party (you) some wands of cure wounds.
BW0222 06-07-07, 11:21 AM	MasonMurdoc, I'll agree with Northern_Bear. Play what you want. Let someone else be the healer or consider playing without a healer to be an interesting challenge. Lots of classes can use a wand of cure light wounds -- bard, ranger, paladin, etc. Rogue can also UMD it. If you have any of these classes, you can always carry a wand of cure light or you can buy one and give it to another PC.
MasonMurdoc 06-07-07, 12:10 PM	Sigh I'm not sure what I want to be any more First I want to be a Sorcorer Necromancer, then I was gonna be a (secretly) evil Rogue but my DM decide it was a bad idea, I then came back to the Necromancer idea with the Dread Necromancer, then I thought about a Bard with bagpipes. All in all, I'm not sure what I want to be a have no inspiration. :(
Lana "Silvertongue" 06-09-07, 11:21 PM	Don't worry about prestiging, just figure out what niche your interested in filling. What is the party filled with? When you get a party with more than 4 or 5 players its easier to look at what holes there might be... Ie do you have a ranged fighter? melee fighter? Key flanker? Summoner? I mean you have to critically look at your team.... I use this checklist. (yes some people fit multiple slots, n if you find all these filled with names, then talk to the one you want to do and see if that "friend" will scale back for you to focus better on another one.) Fighterish melee: Ranged artillery: Face/Skills: Buffer: Blaster: Healer: Scout/Tracker: Battlefield control: