Class quandry and finding games to play. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Class quandry and finding games to play. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psimind25
11-25-05, 04:19 PM Hello, I have hit a brick wall with my last grup and had to leave the groups, tis time because the group think D&D is a friggin Molten Core raid.

I have made peace with the fact many DM's hate psionics for different reasons, So I've been tring to play various magic classes. Sorcerers and Wizards are just very difficult because you are not given variety enough in the lower levels without becomng extemely bored. (oh sorry you cant take burning hands, it's dangerous to the frountline fighters, take 3 magic missles a day and make a magic missle wand. this is the kind of thing that Irritates me.)

Clerics, I have been playing them since 3rd eidition, and people critizize me for the same thing Playing a Cleric the way I want to.

I UNDERSTAND the facts of Clerics being healers, they are the lifeblood of the party and all that. but don't treat me like a WoW priest and give me greif for not keeping the "MT" "up". When I use offensiv spells be either damaging or hindorous to an enemy, they say "Don't draw Aggro! e need to keeping our MT up!"

I dont want to JUST be a healer. I take the Holy and Law domains for a reason. there is a reason I take proficency feats so I can carry a Longsword. but no..... I'm a damn Healbot, so do they want me to download Decursive too?

I'm tired of people treating this like WoW. I want to be ale to play outside of the box, I want my cleric to be more than a healbot. I left WoW because I hated it, and this is the reason why I cancelled my WoW account and went back to looking for D&D games.

But I cant even find a good group anymore?

Another reason I have problems finding a group in my aea is I outright hate Forgotten Realms. everyone in my area loves the thing. I like Eberron, but everyone in my area says it's stupid. though I would try any campeign setting that isnt FR, I played Ravenloft once and it was decent after the idiots left.

So, anyone care to offer some advice.
Psimind25
11-25-05, 05:25 PM Also I should mention that I like to think i'm a decent cleric, I even went as far to take up potionmaking and paid money to provide the group with potions, yet they didnt make very good use of them.
feartheinvinceblehamster
11-25-05, 05:36 PM Speaking as someone who tends to play clerics devoted to a idea instead of a deity, and I tend to choose to rebuke undead and spontaneously cast inflict spells, I know what you mean. People get annoyed at me, I prepare 1 healing spell of each level, and maybe buy a wand. I spend feats on Martial Weapon Proficienty(Kukri) and Two Weapon Fighting. I'm the party tank, even when we already have one. It annoys people. When I went to Worldwide DND gameday I was annoyed with the pregen cleric-He didn't have one offensive spells, just buffs and healing. So I just charged in, and it payed off-At the end, the DM decided he "Hadn't killed enough players" and sent a black dragon after us 1st level characters. With my buffs, he still didn't kill a single player at the end of that game. So maybe cast a few buffs at the party to keep them appeased, and buy a wand of CLW to keep them healthy. And always, always remind them that you are often the only thing between life and death for their character. Heck, if they tick you off play god and ignore them next time they need healing.
Psimind25
11-25-05, 05:42 PM Yeah, that kind of the reason I made the inventment to stock the party with various different potions and be the party chemist. but they said "the potions suck compared to the actuall spells."
Morelen
11-25-05, 11:14 PM I have played several of Clerics over the years, and in a number of different campaign settings. Only one was strictly a healer, and that was by my choice including the prestige class, and passifistic outlook. Actually, I was kind of fun, although she often had to shake her head a sigh when the rest of the party seemed bent on violance at all costs. But commentary aside, there is no reason that ANY Cleric should feel forced into taking a passive role in combat. Look at the options:

First, and good aligned cleric or any cleric of a good aligned diety can always exchange any prepared spell for a healing / cureing spell of the same level. With this in mind, there is no reason to ever use a spell slot to prepare such a spell.

Second, Clerics generally wear heavy armor, and have the option to wield a variety of weapons, so there is no reason for them to feel compelled to avoid combat.
If this is what appeals to you, try a diety with the war or protection domain, and make combat part of your religious training.

Also, use the moral and relogious aspects of the character for ROLE PLAYING, assuming you want more than hack-and-slash out of your game.

Next, look into "Buffs"; that is spells which will enhance one or more characters in combat. Thes can be anything from a simple Bless or Bull's strength on up, and many or the lower level spells will increase in potency, as your character gains levels.

Finally, have the party invest in one or more wands of Cure Light Wounds. The cost is 750 GP for a wand with 50 charges. Then, just use that at the conclusion of each combat. This works with higher level characters too, and is the most cost-effective way to patch-up your party.
Yes, a Cure Critical Wounds or Heal Spell is quicker, but that's rarely a problem as it usually takes several rounds after a fight for characters to recover, search the area and bodies etc. If you are the one down, the party rogue can try a Use Magic Devise roll, or resort to potions. [I still recomend that every party member carry one or more.] And remember, if you do need the "Add Hit Points Now!" of a spell whether for yourself or another party member, you've still got the first option going for you anytime you are willing to play a non-evil cleric.
Nom
11-26-05, 08:12 AM I have made peace with the fact many DM's hate psionics for different reasons, So I've been tring to play various magic classes. Sorcerers and Wizards are just very difficult because you are not given variety enough in the lower levels without becomng extemely bored. (oh sorry you cant take burning hands, it's dangerous to the frountline fighters, take 3 magic missles a day and make a magic missle wand. this is the kind of thing that Irritates me.)In practice, magic missile is a very weak spell until you get several caster levels under your belt (auto-hit with the equivalent of a thrown dagger - yay). The same goes for almost any direct damage spell at low levels. Much better to focus on buffs (eg enlarge person, debuffs (eg daze, ray of enfeeblement), and battlefield control (eg grease, obscuring mist).
Clerics, I have been playing them since 3rd eidition, and people critizize me for the same thing Playing a Cleric the way I want to.

I UNDERSTAND the facts of Clerics being healers, they are the lifeblood of the party and all that. but don't treat me like a WoW priest and give me greif for not keeping the "MT" "up". When I use offensiv spells be either damaging or hindorous to an enemy, they say "Don't draw Aggro! e need to keeping our MT up!""Draw aggro?" "Keep MT up?"

The simple fact is that combat healing is generally pretty inefficient. It has its place, but most of the time its better to stop the opponent dealing damage than try to repair the damage afterwards. And considering the average cleric's combat capability, the cleric that is standing behind the line casting cure light wounds is a cleric who is not flanking and helping take down the opponents that much faster.

In the games I play in, clerics are primarily either second line or front line fighters; healing is very much a secondary role. Fighting characters need to learn to conserve their own hit points, and should carry potions so that they can pull back and heal if things get too desperate. The cleric steps into the breach so that the enemy must face a fully healthy opponent, rather than waste time and effort on token heal spells.

Aside from finding other players, you might want to reconsider how you present your character. If the players can't think beyond "cleric" = "healer", then don't play a cleric. Play a "battle priest" or "divine warrior". When they ask what you can do, explain that you use a combination of melee might and offensive and protective magic. "Can you heal?" "Only in an extremely limited fashion, not the sort of healing you want to rely on in combat."

And then play smart. Be a leader. Make decisions in combat: "I'll stop him here, you run around and flank him." If they insist on running deep into combat, rebuke them: "pull back, you fools, pull back!".

And if you get "Why didn't you heal me?", respond with the obvious question: "Why didn't you heal yourself? You did buy potions like I told you to, didn't you?". If they don't carry potions and know how to use them, why should you be their mummy? You're doing more important jobs. Besides, you told them up-front that you were a fighter, not a healer.

That last is the most important. State that point from clearly from the outset, and repeat as required. "I am a divine warrior. If you want a healer, you need to look elsewhere.".

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psimind25 11-25-05, 04:19 PM	Hello, I have hit a brick wall with my last grup and had to leave the groups, tis time because the group think D&D is a friggin Molten Core raid. I have made peace with the fact many DM's hate psionics for different reasons, So I've been tring to play various magic classes. Sorcerers and Wizards are just very difficult because you are not given variety enough in the lower levels without becomng extemely bored. (oh sorry you cant take burning hands, it's dangerous to the frountline fighters, take 3 magic missles a day and make a magic missle wand. this is the kind of thing that Irritates me.) Clerics, I have been playing them since 3rd eidition, and people critizize me for the same thing Playing a Cleric the way I want to. I UNDERSTAND the facts of Clerics being healers, they are the lifeblood of the party and all that. but don't treat me like a WoW priest and give me greif for not keeping the "MT" "up". When I use offensiv spells be either damaging or hindorous to an enemy, they say "Don't draw Aggro! e need to keeping our MT up!" I dont want to JUST be a healer. I take the Holy and Law domains for a reason. there is a reason I take proficency feats so I can carry a Longsword. but no..... I'm a damn Healbot, so do they want me to download Decursive too? I'm tired of people treating this like WoW. I want to be ale to play outside of the box, I want my cleric to be more than a healbot. I left WoW because I hated it, and this is the reason why I cancelled my WoW account and went back to looking for D&D games. But I cant even find a good group anymore? Another reason I have problems finding a group in my aea is I outright hate Forgotten Realms. everyone in my area loves the thing. I like Eberron, but everyone in my area says it's stupid. though I would try any campeign setting that isnt FR, I played Ravenloft once and it was decent after the idiots left. So, anyone care to offer some advice.
Psimind25 11-25-05, 05:25 PM	Also I should mention that I like to think i'm a decent cleric, I even went as far to take up potionmaking and paid money to provide the group with potions, yet they didnt make very good use of them.
feartheinvinceblehamster 11-25-05, 05:36 PM	Speaking as someone who tends to play clerics devoted to a idea instead of a deity, and I tend to choose to rebuke undead and spontaneously cast inflict spells, I know what you mean. People get annoyed at me, I prepare 1 healing spell of each level, and maybe buy a wand. I spend feats on Martial Weapon Proficienty(Kukri) and Two Weapon Fighting. I'm the party tank, even when we already have one. It annoys people. When I went to Worldwide DND gameday I was annoyed with the pregen cleric-He didn't have one offensive spells, just buffs and healing. So I just charged in, and it payed off-At the end, the DM decided he "Hadn't killed enough players" and sent a black dragon after us 1st level characters. With my buffs, he still didn't kill a single player at the end of that game. So maybe cast a few buffs at the party to keep them appeased, and buy a wand of CLW to keep them healthy. And always, always remind them that you are often the only thing between life and death for their character. Heck, if they tick you off play god and ignore them next time they need healing.
Psimind25 11-25-05, 05:42 PM	Yeah, that kind of the reason I made the inventment to stock the party with various different potions and be the party chemist. but they said "the potions suck compared to the actuall spells."
Morelen 11-25-05, 11:14 PM	I have played several of Clerics over the years, and in a number of different campaign settings. Only one was strictly a healer, and that was by my choice including the prestige class, and passifistic outlook. Actually, I was kind of fun, although she often had to shake her head a sigh when the rest of the party seemed bent on violance at all costs. But commentary aside, there is no reason that ANY Cleric should feel forced into taking a passive role in combat. Look at the options: First, and good aligned cleric or any cleric of a good aligned diety can always exchange any prepared spell for a healing / cureing spell of the same level. With this in mind, there is no reason to ever use a spell slot to prepare such a spell. Second, Clerics generally wear heavy armor, and have the option to wield a variety of weapons, so there is no reason for them to feel compelled to avoid combat. If this is what appeals to you, try a diety with the war or protection domain, and make combat part of your religious training. Also, use the moral and relogious aspects of the character for ROLE PLAYING, assuming you want more than hack-and-slash out of your game. Next, look into "Buffs"; that is spells which will enhance one or more characters in combat. Thes can be anything from a simple Bless or Bull's strength on up, and many or the lower level spells will increase in potency, as your character gains levels. Finally, have the party invest in one or more wands of Cure Light Wounds. The cost is 750 GP for a wand with 50 charges. Then, just use that at the conclusion of each combat. This works with higher level characters too, and is the most cost-effective way to patch-up your party. Yes, a Cure Critical Wounds or Heal Spell is quicker, but that's rarely a problem as it usually takes several rounds after a fight for characters to recover, search the area and bodies etc. If you are the one down, the party rogue can try a Use Magic Devise roll, or resort to potions. [I still recomend that every party member carry one or more.] And remember, if you do need the "Add Hit Points Now!" of a spell whether for yourself or another party member, you've still got the first option going for you anytime you are willing to play a non-evil cleric.
Nom 11-26-05, 08:12 AM	I have made peace with the fact many DM's hate psionics for different reasons, So I've been tring to play various magic classes. Sorcerers and Wizards are just very difficult because you are not given variety enough in the lower levels without becomng extemely bored. (oh sorry you cant take burning hands, it's dangerous to the frountline fighters, take 3 magic missles a day and make a magic missle wand. this is the kind of thing that Irritates me.)In practice, magic missile is a very weak spell until you get several caster levels under your belt (auto-hit with the equivalent of a thrown dagger - yay). The same goes for almost any direct damage spell at low levels. Much better to focus on buffs (eg enlarge person, debuffs (eg daze, ray of enfeeblement), and battlefield control (eg grease, obscuring mist). Clerics, I have been playing them since 3rd eidition, and people critizize me for the same thing Playing a Cleric the way I want to. I UNDERSTAND the facts of Clerics being healers, they are the lifeblood of the party and all that. but don't treat me like a WoW priest and give me greif for not keeping the "MT" "up". When I use offensiv spells be either damaging or hindorous to an enemy, they say "Don't draw Aggro! e need to keeping our MT up!""Draw aggro?" "Keep MT up?" The simple fact is that combat healing is generally pretty inefficient. It has its place, but most of the time its better to stop the opponent dealing damage than try to repair the damage afterwards. And considering the average cleric's combat capability, the cleric that is standing behind the line casting cure light wounds is a cleric who is not flanking and helping take down the opponents that much faster. In the games I play in, clerics are primarily either second line or front line fighters; healing is very much a secondary role. Fighting characters need to learn to conserve their own hit points, and should carry potions so that they can pull back and heal if things get too desperate. The cleric steps into the breach so that the enemy must face a fully healthy opponent, rather than waste time and effort on token heal spells. Aside from finding other players, you might want to reconsider how you present your character. If the players can't think beyond "cleric" = "healer", then don't play a cleric. Play a "battle priest" or "divine warrior". When they ask what you can do, explain that you use a combination of melee might and offensive and protective magic. "Can you heal?" "Only in an extremely limited fashion, not the sort of healing you want to rely on in combat." And then play smart. Be a leader. Make decisions in combat: "I'll stop him here, you run around and flank him." If they insist on running deep into combat, rebuke them: "pull back, you fools, pull back!". And if you get "Why didn't you heal me?", respond with the obvious question: "Why didn't you heal yourself? You did buy potions like I told you to, didn't you?". If they don't carry potions and know how to use them, why should you be their mummy? You're doing more important jobs. Besides, you told them up-front that you were a fighter, not a healer. That last is the most important. State that point from clearly from the outset, and repeat as required. "I am a divine warrior. If you want a healer, you need to look elsewhere.".