Classes don't exist!!! (HELP!!!) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Classes don't exist!!! (HELP!!!) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Neonivek
11-19-05, 07:58 PM Ok here is the problem... (I don't know if this is commonly accepted)

I wanted to play this character names Noxum who was going to be a Poison Master as a profession... however there is a actual Poison Master class or class allowed called poison master. So I instead used a Rogue class and called my Guy a Poison Master.

Ok as the story continues I am in the game and people kept calling me a Rogue and my character kept saying "No I am a poison master" Which by the way is because they looked at my sheet. This caused great problems because there were people in the party who hate Rogues when my character IS NOT A ROGUE!!! Also my character has not done anything deserving the title of Rogue as well.

Anyway that isnt the problem... Later we get in this big fight where most of the players (the DM staying out of it because they will most likely leave his game) keep saying my character is a rogue and I say "No he is of rogue class but he is a poison master"

Last thing I want to do is play a rogue... How can I convince the other players that the classes only outline the abilities and obtaining of said abilities? You should have seen what they said when I said that a Fighter could be a Cleric
Neonivek
11-19-05, 08:22 PM Update: One person is on my side with a rather good post on the game's forums
Nitan
11-19-05, 08:26 PM ...if I met someone who repeatidly exclaimed he was a "poison master", I would do my best to avoid his dinner parties.

If you're Neutral is alignment or simply Evil you can slip a little something special in their food in an inn some day. If they claim you did it, simply point out you're a Rogue, not a poison master. ;)

Then again, you could always just accept the fact that your character is a Rogue who happens to be very skilled with Poisons. So what if the other players call you a Rogue? Your character is what you want it to be. If you say he's a Poison Master, he's a Poison Master.
Dhavaer
11-19-05, 08:30 PM I agree with you. I have also seen several threads on these boards degenrate into arguments on this point.
I've also got a character who's has levels in rogue who couldn't conceivably be called a rogue, (no ranks in open lock, move silently, hide, disable device or search) so I know what you're talking about.
You could try simply saying, 'Your abilities define your character, not your class" or words to that effect.
In a way they are right, you character is a rogue, but that is meaningless. More so than saying that a character is a wizard or ranger, because the class is so versatile. Saying 'poison master' is a lot more descriptive, and useful.
JadeSpider9643
11-19-05, 08:34 PM Yes, I full agree that you can be "something" and use a class only to mimic the function but not the role, or the reverse. Ahh the Order of the Stick knows everything :cloud9: (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209)
Neonivek
11-19-05, 08:39 PM Well to admit my character is Neutral Good... I better start the next thread called "ALIGNMENTS ARE ABSTRACT!!! (HELP!!!)". (Half-Joke... the really say a Lawful Good person is incapable of killing someone they hate without alignment change when I say that the allignments are a general overall motive of a character)

I just took the fact that Poisons are not evil, and putting emetic in a person's drink is not something that would make a allignment change.

In my oppinion if Allignments are not abstract then all paladins would be evil since they mostly just kill people just because their "detect evil" just happens to get results. Anyhow this isnt about allignment yet.
Reverend Duck
11-19-05, 08:40 PM I'm guessing your friends wouldn't say about someone in-game that "he is level 12" or that "he has 32 hit points left." Class works the same way: It's a metagame concept, not an in-universe concept. This means that PCs and NPCs can't define people according to it—only according to their profession and reputation.

I don't know if your friends would be convinced by this, but you can always try it.
The White Sorcerer
11-19-05, 09:11 PM Ok as the story continues I am in the game and people kept calling me a Rogue and my character kept saying "No I am a poison master" Which by the way is because they looked at my sheet. This caused great problems because there were people in the party who hate Rogues when my character IS NOT A ROGUE!!!
You know, I'm not sure the kind of people who dislike rogues will like your character any more if he's a poison master.

And just ask your DM if you can write "poison master" on your sheet instead of "rogue."
shadowrisae
11-19-05, 09:26 PM My personal opinion, as a DM, is your job title is more of what you do rather than your class title.

For instance, take just someone who has levels just in fighter.

- If they offer their fighting services to anyone who pays them coin, they could be called a mercenary
- If they work for a local militia or some other organized military-like group, they could be called a soldier or even a knight
- If they are paid by someone just to protect a certain person or persons, they could be called a bodyguard

Like others have pointed out, I'm not sure your character would necessarily want to go around saying that they are a "poison master", but either way, just because you're a rogue class-wise doesn't mean that should be your character's personal job title.
BadCatMan
11-19-05, 09:58 PM I think they're just not getting their heads around the concept.

Just compromise - write on your sheet Class: Rogue [Poisoner]. They might get it then.

Then try to explain that a character is defined by their abilities, not their flavour text.

I was in a campaign with a player with a Monk/Fighter/Weapon Master[katana], who called himself a Samurai.

I myself played a Grey Dwarf Fighter/Paragon/Defender, and simply called him a Dwarf. Then I played a Monk/Fighter/Paladin/Shiba Protector/Pious Templar. I left the Class bit blank because there wasn't any room, then got some suspicious questions about what class I was. I tried to explain that I was still essentially a Paladin.
darkness ninja of light
11-19-05, 11:07 PM I don't know. Frankly I don't think it's too far fetched for them to be calling you a rogue. Rogues fill a bunch of niches and poisoning people just happens to be one of them. There are people who lie, cheat, steal, sneak around, kill etc. They call them rogues, bandits, spies, assassins, etc. Someone who secretly uses poison to get rid of her enemies can be considered a "rogue". You consider your job class to be "poison master" so is it all that bad that they call you by your class in a broader sense then your class in a specific sense? They might hate rogues, but hey, you claim to do very similar job.

Of course, if your character really is bothered by it then you're doing the right thing by saying it IN game. To me (and most characters I would play) a poison master is just a type of rogue. You need to PROVE to the other characters that you're much different from rogues somehow. Frankly though, "poison master" sounds a LOT worse than rogue. "We hate rogues! Always being sneaky and lying and thieving!" "Oh well I'm not a rogue. I just kill everything with poison!" "Uh...."

In any case, I suggest tolerance.
allenchan
11-19-05, 11:09 PM I had the same problem before:

"You're the rogue, you disarm the trap."
"Im not a rogue, Im an adventurer. I dont know how to disarm traps"
*tries to look at my character sheet* "You mean you're a ROGUE and you didnt take DISARM DEVICE?!"

Yea, tell your group to stop metagaming and grow up.

edit: and something that sums it all up rather nicely:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209
The White Sorcerer
11-20-05, 12:46 AM "Im not a rogue, Im an adventurer. I dont know how to disarm traps"]
Anyone else reminded of Locke from Final Fantasy VI?
Although I do think an adventurer rogue would know how to disable traps.
TLomon
11-20-05, 01:58 AM Stop calling yourself a poison maker and start calling yourself an Apothocary.

There are some splat books that have Alchemist, or something similiar. I also have two that cover specialists in poison making (extend poison, etc. are all feats). An apothocary can expand from just poison into related fields.
footdownatgreen
11-20-05, 03:28 AM I can call myself an intellectual paragon of the academic world, but that does not stop the rest of the world from calling me a nerd. It really does not matter what you are called, its what you do that sets you apart. Therefore I would stop complaining and having a fit, and poison the next buffoon who calls you a Rouge. Nothing serious if its a PC, just something to give him some stomach pains for a day or two. On the other hand if its some cocky NPC, drop a couple grand into Black Lotus Extract and invite him over for a wonderful glass of wine. :pint: :ghosted:
Neonivek
11-20-05, 10:56 AM apothocary... good idea. Unfortunatly my character isnt mature enough to say that word... Ill leave that for lvl 6 (Trust me leveling is SLOW)
sorites
11-20-05, 12:15 PM Ahh the Order of the Stick knows everything :cloud9: (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209)

Awesome. And so on-topic, to boot! :D
lord warrior
11-20-05, 05:16 PM You should either:
a) Poison the whole party, so they would stop calling you a Rogue
b) Kill them using more mundane ways, if you are of good or neutral alignment, because poisons are evil.
c) Play a rogue.
nordyboy
11-20-05, 06:48 PM I have a similar problem in my group. It took alot of work to convince my party to let me take watch or carry treasure, simply because some of my classes are Rogue. "Oh, let the Rogue carry the treasure. That's a great idea. He'll just steal it all." :banghead: Grrr... I don't know how their characters found out that I was playing a Rogue, we hadn't found any traps, but whatever. I just asked them to find the Rogue class feature that said I was a murderous, untrustworthy thief. That shut them up pretty fast.
Tristan
11-21-05, 06:54 AM Well, I'd advice you take action, but not in such an...extreme, way.

look, they are calling you a rogue. If it is in game they are calling you
rogue ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rg)
n.
An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.
A wandering beggar; a vagrant.
A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd.
An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard.

Naturally, as an intelligent and
Unfortunatly my character isnt mature enough
unmature person, it is understandable that he would take offense to being called a scramp. so he chooses to give em a taste of their own venom

here is an example

For the fighter.
"Wow, when it comes to sensless violence, your great"
Imply that he is an idiot
and laugh whenver there is the thought of him using skills or anything other than hitting something with a stick.

and naturally since your the rogue, you'd be an idiot to not take max ranks in all 30+ rogue skills. Switch any official documents with obviously fake ones. insist on plans that involves disgueses. Demand that your the only one who has any skill at appraising items. Each time saying "Im a rogue right, obviously, this is what I do"
Fara
11-21-05, 08:25 AM Ugh, that sucks.

I've had similar trouble. I played a courier, but he was constantly refferred to as 'the bard'.
kintire
11-21-05, 09:03 AM Oh it could be worse. For about the first six weeks of a new campaign I was always being asked to open locks, disarm traps, follow people. In week four their was an intricate plan that involved me picking someone's pocket.

I was a sorcerer.
Elbethamore
11-21-05, 05:50 PM Oh it could be worse. For about the first six weeks of a new campaign I was always being asked to open locks, disarm traps, follow people. In week four their was an intricate plan that involved me picking someone's pocket.

I was a sorcerer.

The magic missiles never tipped them off? ;)

Seriously, that is a great story.
hollow_ghost
11-21-05, 07:37 PM Why is poison considered evil? As a player and a DM, I would say it is neutral. Nature in itself produces poison as means of defense. Druids harnest that natural ability for the spell Poison (wich can hurt prety badly, 1d10 Con dmg...). It isn't poison per say that makes the user evil. It is a battle tactic; would you call someone evil because it uses magic, caltrops, sneak attack or whatever?

What would make poison users evil would be assassination. In such cases, poison would be used in an evil way. Then again, one must evaluate the situation: if the target is someone evil in itself and MUST be killed to save someone/something/because ur god told you too, then it isn't evil to assassinate.

DnD Alignments are guidelines. They are more "way a character generally acts". As LG as you may be, you still do something against the rules or hit someone senseless. In the act of lovemaking, is a Paladin forbidden to get a lil rough? Alignments are mostly perceptions. In a war, the soldiers are not necessarily evil as they can be in it from conscription or just need the coins. If you as a soldier see an adversary kill your friend, wouldnt you consider that guy evil? Yet, that guy could as well just have saved his own skin from your friend, or again, was in it for the money to feed his wife and ten kids. And, if you as the soldier were a paladin, would Smite Evil work or not work on that guy? In your heart, you KNOW that guy is evil.

Alignments depend on perception. DMs should take that in consideration when judging smite/protect/detect alignments, but only without letting his PCs abuse of such abilities according to perception. Example to avoid: "That guy tried to kill me! SMITE EVIL!" "Hey, that level 20 monk that tried to save that woman. PROTECTION FROM GOOD!" "That guy passed by the red light! AXIOMATIC DAGGER!"

Poison, on the same basis, isn't necessarily evil, especially since not all poison kill.
darkness ninja of light
11-21-05, 10:37 PM NO! No alignment talk! Some people think it's evil because it's underhanded and torturous. Some people think it's neutral perhaps because of what you said. Some people have various other opinions that can be assumed to have been discussed for the sake of not actually talking about alignment. Some people wear glasses. Beth wears glasses. Everyone is different. No two people are not on fire.
kintire
11-22-05, 07:27 AM The magic missiles never tipped them off?

I was sleep/Mage Armour. To be fair to them, I had been playing a rogue previously. Even so!

If you as a soldier see an adversary kill your friend, wouldnt you consider that guy evil?

No. Not for that act anyway.

And, if you as the soldier were a paladin, would Smite Evil work or not work on that guy?

Not work.

In your heart, you KNOW that guy is evil.

No, you are angry with and dislike, even hate him. That doesn't make him evil.

Alignments depend on perception

DnD alignments are absolutes, although feww people stick to them all the time.

Poison, on the same basis, isn't necessarily evil

Isn't their a thread just above started by someone who wants to make a poison using paladin? Oh yes... I suspect you of an ulterior motive :devil:

That said, I don't see poison as particularly evil. Going round saying "I am the Poison MASTAH!" on the other hand, will not get you invited to many parties...

As far as classes go, they do represent a set of skills, techniques and abilities which lots of people possess. It is certainly not impossible that they are recognised in the world in the same way that martial arts styles are. Most PHB classes will certainly be recognised (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Monk). There is a difference between a Warrior and a Fighter or Barbarian, and it is not unreasonable to suppose that it might be recognised, in the same way as the difference between a line infantry trooper and a spec ops is today. Rogues are perhaps the loosest, but even they do have a core of recognisable techniques. You certainly don't have to play it this way, but I wouldn't rule it out a priori.
babysamurai
11-22-05, 08:42 AM Yeah, it's the same problem with these control-freak DM's who won't let you take levels in Dervish unless you're a desert-dwelling-prancer.
Sevil
11-22-05, 03:21 PM I think this could be a hilarious in-game character discussion too.

I think the movie was Chasing Amy and it went something like this:

"What do you do for a living?"

"I'm an inker for a comic strip."

"A what?"

"An inker!"

"So what, you like, trace stuff?"

"No! I ink the drawings!"

"You take somebody else's drawing. Go over the drawing with ink. And then give it to somebody else??? YOU'RE A TRACER!!"

"#$!@$#!, you don't understand me...."

Ha ha...you should just keep 'trying' to do 'roguish' things but totally suck at them.

'Hey rogue, open this door"

"Ok....let's see here...eh.... one sec, I'll get it...." *struggle*

(20 mins later)

"Almost got it......."

*grumble* "What kind of rogue can't open a door?!?!"

"Exactly...."

I also liked the idea of requesting others to do extremely basic things about their character's base class. "Hey fighter...go attack that tree until we find something useful for you to do."
Vaelan
11-22-05, 09:16 PM Since they're so intent upon defining what one does based on class levels, ask them when they're taking their levels of "Metagaming Twit".
hollow_ghost
11-22-05, 09:36 PM Isn't their a thread just above started by someone who wants to make a poison using paladin? Oh yes... I suspect you of an ulterior motive :devil:

Actually, I started the other one after this reply. Replying to this thread got me thinking about paladins and poison.
CryoSilver
11-22-05, 09:41 PM The task of disarming traps in my old group fell to me, the barbarian. I usually threw a dead gnome (I had a bag of them) at the supposed trapped area to see if it was. If it went off, I threw another to see if it rearmed. If it did, the wizard fragged the area into smoking rubble.
ranger danger
11-22-05, 11:38 PM change the name on the paper but still level up as a rouge. so when they look on your paper you are a poison master. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neonivek 11-19-05, 07:58 PM	Ok here is the problem... (I don't know if this is commonly accepted) I wanted to play this character names Noxum who was going to be a Poison Master as a profession... however there is a actual Poison Master class or class allowed called poison master. So I instead used a Rogue class and called my Guy a Poison Master. Ok as the story continues I am in the game and people kept calling me a Rogue and my character kept saying "No I am a poison master" Which by the way is because they looked at my sheet. This caused great problems because there were people in the party who hate Rogues when my character IS NOT A ROGUE!!! Also my character has not done anything deserving the title of Rogue as well. Anyway that isnt the problem... Later we get in this big fight where most of the players (the DM staying out of it because they will most likely leave his game) keep saying my character is a rogue and I say "No he is of rogue class but he is a poison master" Last thing I want to do is play a rogue... How can I convince the other players that the classes only outline the abilities and obtaining of said abilities? You should have seen what they said when I said that a Fighter could be a Cleric
Neonivek 11-19-05, 08:22 PM	Update: One person is on my side with a rather good post on the game's forums
Nitan 11-19-05, 08:26 PM	...if I met someone who repeatidly exclaimed he was a "poison master", I would do my best to avoid his dinner parties. If you're Neutral is alignment or simply Evil you can slip a little something special in their food in an inn some day. If they claim you did it, simply point out you're a Rogue, not a poison master. ;) Then again, you could always just accept the fact that your character is a Rogue who happens to be very skilled with Poisons. So what if the other players call you a Rogue? Your character is what you want it to be. If you say he's a Poison Master, he's a Poison Master.
Dhavaer 11-19-05, 08:30 PM	I agree with you. I have also seen several threads on these boards degenrate into arguments on this point. I've also got a character who's has levels in rogue who couldn't conceivably be called a rogue, (no ranks in open lock, move silently, hide, disable device or search) so I know what you're talking about. You could try simply saying, 'Your abilities define your character, not your class" or words to that effect. In a way they are right, you character is a rogue, but that is meaningless. More so than saying that a character is a wizard or ranger, because the class is so versatile. Saying 'poison master' is a lot more descriptive, and useful.
JadeSpider9643 11-19-05, 08:34 PM	Yes, I full agree that you can be "something" and use a class only to mimic the function but not the role, or the reverse. Ahh the Order of the Stick knows everything :cloud9: (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209)
Neonivek 11-19-05, 08:39 PM	Well to admit my character is Neutral Good... I better start the next thread called "ALIGNMENTS ARE ABSTRACT!!! (HELP!!!)". (Half-Joke... the really say a Lawful Good person is incapable of killing someone they hate without alignment change when I say that the allignments are a general overall motive of a character) I just took the fact that Poisons are not evil, and putting emetic in a person's drink is not something that would make a allignment change. In my oppinion if Allignments are not abstract then all paladins would be evil since they mostly just kill people just because their "detect evil" just happens to get results. Anyhow this isnt about allignment yet.
Reverend Duck 11-19-05, 08:40 PM	I'm guessing your friends wouldn't say about someone in-game that "he is level 12" or that "he has 32 hit points left." Class works the same way: It's a metagame concept, not an in-universe concept. This means that PCs and NPCs can't define people according to it—only according to their profession and reputation. I don't know if your friends would be convinced by this, but you can always try it.
The White Sorcerer 11-19-05, 09:11 PM	Ok as the story continues I am in the game and people kept calling me a Rogue and my character kept saying "No I am a poison master" Which by the way is because they looked at my sheet. This caused great problems because there were people in the party who hate Rogues when my character IS NOT A ROGUE!!! You know, I'm not sure the kind of people who dislike rogues will like your character any more if he's a poison master. And just ask your DM if you can write "poison master" on your sheet instead of "rogue."
shadowrisae 11-19-05, 09:26 PM	My personal opinion, as a DM, is your job title is more of what you do rather than your class title. For instance, take just someone who has levels just in fighter. - If they offer their fighting services to anyone who pays them coin, they could be called a mercenary - If they work for a local militia or some other organized military-like group, they could be called a soldier or even a knight - If they are paid by someone just to protect a certain person or persons, they could be called a bodyguard Like others have pointed out, I'm not sure your character would necessarily want to go around saying that they are a "poison master", but either way, just because you're a rogue class-wise doesn't mean that should be your character's personal job title.
BadCatMan 11-19-05, 09:58 PM	I think they're just not getting their heads around the concept. Just compromise - write on your sheet Class: Rogue [Poisoner]. They might get it then. Then try to explain that a character is defined by their abilities, not their flavour text. I was in a campaign with a player with a Monk/Fighter/Weapon Master[katana], who called himself a Samurai. I myself played a Grey Dwarf Fighter/Paragon/Defender, and simply called him a Dwarf. Then I played a Monk/Fighter/Paladin/Shiba Protector/Pious Templar. I left the Class bit blank because there wasn't any room, then got some suspicious questions about what class I was. I tried to explain that I was still essentially a Paladin.
darkness ninja of light 11-19-05, 11:07 PM	I don't know. Frankly I don't think it's too far fetched for them to be calling you a rogue. Rogues fill a bunch of niches and poisoning people just happens to be one of them. There are people who lie, cheat, steal, sneak around, kill etc. They call them rogues, bandits, spies, assassins, etc. Someone who secretly uses poison to get rid of her enemies can be considered a "rogue". You consider your job class to be "poison master" so is it all that bad that they call you by your class in a broader sense then your class in a specific sense? They might hate rogues, but hey, you claim to do very similar job. Of course, if your character really is bothered by it then you're doing the right thing by saying it IN game. To me (and most characters I would play) a poison master is just a type of rogue. You need to PROVE to the other characters that you're much different from rogues somehow. Frankly though, "poison master" sounds a LOT worse than rogue. "We hate rogues! Always being sneaky and lying and thieving!" "Oh well I'm not a rogue. I just kill everything with poison!" "Uh...." In any case, I suggest tolerance.
allenchan 11-19-05, 11:09 PM	I had the same problem before: "You're the rogue, you disarm the trap." "Im not a rogue, Im an adventurer. I dont know how to disarm traps" tries to look at my character sheet "You mean you're a ROGUE and you didnt take DISARM DEVICE?!" Yea, tell your group to stop metagaming and grow up. edit: and something that sums it all up rather nicely: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209
The White Sorcerer 11-20-05, 12:46 AM	"Im not a rogue, Im an adventurer. I dont know how to disarm traps"] Anyone else reminded of Locke from Final Fantasy VI? Although I do think an adventurer rogue would know how to disable traps.
TLomon 11-20-05, 01:58 AM	Stop calling yourself a poison maker and start calling yourself an Apothocary. There are some splat books that have Alchemist, or something similiar. I also have two that cover specialists in poison making (extend poison, etc. are all feats). An apothocary can expand from just poison into related fields.
footdownatgreen 11-20-05, 03:28 AM	I can call myself an intellectual paragon of the academic world, but that does not stop the rest of the world from calling me a nerd. It really does not matter what you are called, its what you do that sets you apart. Therefore I would stop complaining and having a fit, and poison the next buffoon who calls you a Rouge. Nothing serious if its a PC, just something to give him some stomach pains for a day or two. On the other hand if its some cocky NPC, drop a couple grand into Black Lotus Extract and invite him over for a wonderful glass of wine. :pint: :ghosted:
Neonivek 11-20-05, 10:56 AM	apothocary... good idea. Unfortunatly my character isnt mature enough to say that word... Ill leave that for lvl 6 (Trust me leveling is SLOW)
sorites 11-20-05, 12:15 PM	Ahh the Order of the Stick knows everything :cloud9: (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209) Awesome. And so on-topic, to boot! :D
lord warrior 11-20-05, 05:16 PM	You should either: a) Poison the whole party, so they would stop calling you a Rogue b) Kill them using more mundane ways, if you are of good or neutral alignment, because poisons are evil. c) Play a rogue.
nordyboy 11-20-05, 06:48 PM	I have a similar problem in my group. It took alot of work to convince my party to let me take watch or carry treasure, simply because some of my classes are Rogue. "Oh, let the Rogue carry the treasure. That's a great idea. He'll just steal it all." :banghead: Grrr... I don't know how their characters found out that I was playing a Rogue, we hadn't found any traps, but whatever. I just asked them to find the Rogue class feature that said I was a murderous, untrustworthy thief. That shut them up pretty fast.
Tristan 11-21-05, 06:54 AM	Well, I'd advice you take action, but not in such an...extreme, way. look, they are calling you a rogue. If it is in game they are calling you rogue ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rg) n. An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal. One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp. A wandering beggar; a vagrant. A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd. An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard. Naturally, as an intelligent and Unfortunatly my character isnt mature enough unmature person, it is understandable that he would take offense to being called a scramp. so he chooses to give em a taste of their own venom here is an example For the fighter. "Wow, when it comes to sensless violence, your great" Imply that he is an idiot and laugh whenver there is the thought of him using skills or anything other than hitting something with a stick. and naturally since your the rogue, you'd be an idiot to not take max ranks in all 30+ rogue skills. Switch any official documents with obviously fake ones. insist on plans that involves disgueses. Demand that your the only one who has any skill at appraising items. Each time saying "Im a rogue right, obviously, this is what I do"
Fara 11-21-05, 08:25 AM	Ugh, that sucks. I've had similar trouble. I played a courier, but he was constantly refferred to as 'the bard'.
kintire 11-21-05, 09:03 AM	Oh it could be worse. For about the first six weeks of a new campaign I was always being asked to open locks, disarm traps, follow people. In week four their was an intricate plan that involved me picking someone's pocket. I was a sorcerer.
Elbethamore 11-21-05, 05:50 PM	Oh it could be worse. For about the first six weeks of a new campaign I was always being asked to open locks, disarm traps, follow people. In week four their was an intricate plan that involved me picking someone's pocket. I was a sorcerer. The magic missiles never tipped them off? ;) Seriously, that is a great story.
hollow_ghost 11-21-05, 07:37 PM	Why is poison considered evil? As a player and a DM, I would say it is neutral. Nature in itself produces poison as means of defense. Druids harnest that natural ability for the spell Poison (wich can hurt prety badly, 1d10 Con dmg...). It isn't poison per say that makes the user evil. It is a battle tactic; would you call someone evil because it uses magic, caltrops, sneak attack or whatever? What would make poison users evil would be assassination. In such cases, poison would be used in an evil way. Then again, one must evaluate the situation: if the target is someone evil in itself and MUST be killed to save someone/something/because ur god told you too, then it isn't evil to assassinate. DnD Alignments are guidelines. They are more "way a character generally acts". As LG as you may be, you still do something against the rules or hit someone senseless. In the act of lovemaking, is a Paladin forbidden to get a lil rough? Alignments are mostly perceptions. In a war, the soldiers are not necessarily evil as they can be in it from conscription or just need the coins. If you as a soldier see an adversary kill your friend, wouldnt you consider that guy evil? Yet, that guy could as well just have saved his own skin from your friend, or again, was in it for the money to feed his wife and ten kids. And, if you as the soldier were a paladin, would Smite Evil work or not work on that guy? In your heart, you KNOW that guy is evil. Alignments depend on perception. DMs should take that in consideration when judging smite/protect/detect alignments, but only without letting his PCs abuse of such abilities according to perception. Example to avoid: "That guy tried to kill me! SMITE EVIL!" "Hey, that level 20 monk that tried to save that woman. PROTECTION FROM GOOD!" "That guy passed by the red light! AXIOMATIC DAGGER!" Poison, on the same basis, isn't necessarily evil, especially since not all poison kill.
darkness ninja of light 11-21-05, 10:37 PM	NO! No alignment talk! Some people think it's evil because it's underhanded and torturous. Some people think it's neutral perhaps because of what you said. Some people have various other opinions that can be assumed to have been discussed for the sake of not actually talking about alignment. Some people wear glasses. Beth wears glasses. Everyone is different. No two people are not on fire.
kintire 11-22-05, 07:27 AM	The magic missiles never tipped them off? I was sleep/Mage Armour. To be fair to them, I had been playing a rogue previously. Even so! If you as a soldier see an adversary kill your friend, wouldnt you consider that guy evil? No. Not for that act anyway. And, if you as the soldier were a paladin, would Smite Evil work or not work on that guy? Not work. In your heart, you KNOW that guy is evil. No, you are angry with and dislike, even hate him. That doesn't make him evil. Alignments depend on perception DnD alignments are absolutes, although feww people stick to them all the time. Poison, on the same basis, isn't necessarily evil Isn't their a thread just above started by someone who wants to make a poison using paladin? Oh yes... I suspect you of an ulterior motive :devil: That said, I don't see poison as particularly evil. Going round saying "I am the Poison MASTAH!" on the other hand, will not get you invited to many parties... As far as classes go, they do represent a set of skills, techniques and abilities which lots of people possess. It is certainly not impossible that they are recognised in the world in the same way that martial arts styles are. Most PHB classes will certainly be recognised (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Monk). There is a difference between a Warrior and a Fighter or Barbarian, and it is not unreasonable to suppose that it might be recognised, in the same way as the difference between a line infantry trooper and a spec ops is today. Rogues are perhaps the loosest, but even they do have a core of recognisable techniques. You certainly don't have to play it this way, but I wouldn't rule it out a priori.
babysamurai 11-22-05, 08:42 AM	Yeah, it's the same problem with these control-freak DM's who won't let you take levels in Dervish unless you're a desert-dwelling-prancer.
Sevil 11-22-05, 03:21 PM	I think this could be a hilarious in-game character discussion too. I think the movie was Chasing Amy and it went something like this: "What do you do for a living?" "I'm an inker for a comic strip." "A what?" "An inker!" "So what, you like, trace stuff?" "No! I ink the drawings!" "You take somebody else's drawing. Go over the drawing with ink. And then give it to somebody else??? YOU'RE A TRACER!!" "#$!@$#!, you don't understand me...." Ha ha...you should just keep 'trying' to do 'roguish' things but totally suck at them. 'Hey rogue, open this door" "Ok....let's see here...eh.... one sec, I'll get it...." struggle (20 mins later) "Almost got it......." grumble "What kind of rogue can't open a door?!?!" "Exactly...." I also liked the idea of requesting others to do extremely basic things about their character's base class. "Hey fighter...go attack that tree until we find something useful for you to do."
Vaelan 11-22-05, 09:16 PM	Since they're so intent upon defining what one does based on class levels, ask them when they're taking their levels of "Metagaming Twit".
hollow_ghost 11-22-05, 09:36 PM	Isn't their a thread just above started by someone who wants to make a poison using paladin? Oh yes... I suspect you of an ulterior motive :devil: Actually, I started the other one after this reply. Replying to this thread got me thinking about paladins and poison.
CryoSilver 11-22-05, 09:41 PM	The task of disarming traps in my old group fell to me, the barbarian. I usually threw a dead gnome (I had a bag of them) at the supposed trapped area to see if it was. If it went off, I threw another to see if it rearmed. If it did, the wizard fragged the area into smoking rubble.
ranger danger 11-22-05, 11:38 PM	change the name on the paper but still level up as a rouge. so when they look on your paper you are a poison master. :D