Classy Fighter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Classy Fighter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JEntropy
06-28-07, 11:39 AM I have to reroll in one of the campaigns I'm in, and I figured I'd play a more martially-oriented character this time.

This being said, I don't want to play a PA'ing fighter/barbarian with a greataxe/sword. Powerful, but a been there, done that kinda thing. It's not a deal-breaker, but it's not my preference.

I'm looking for something with a little more flair. I was considering playing a fighter who incorporates shield-bashing into combat (a la "300"), which would incorporate the shield feats from PHB 1&2, as well as the two-weapon fighting tree.

Not sure whether it matters, but I'll be starting off as an ECL 3. The DM has allowed all core, core2 and the complete series, but I can probably convince him to allow other material on a case-by-case basis.

How viable/fun do you think this would be, and do you have any better suggestions?
Comus
06-28-07, 11:56 AM Try your damnedest to get him to allow Tome of Battle. The options in there are a lot more fun (though not really more powerful) than "charge-full attack-full attack-repeat".
Azezel
06-28-07, 12:55 PM What is 'core 2'?

In any event, the Shield feats in the PHB II are very good. Also - I recommend that you choose a bludgeoning weapon as your primarily, that way, you can take advantage of the weapon supremacy tree in the same book, and gain the +2/+2 on your shield as well. There are some exotic shields in Races of Stone which you might look at, if you think you can talk your DM into allowing them (and I'd be very careful about that - it's not nice to badger a DM for extras, ask once and then accept any 'no's that you get).

As for flavour - that's slightly harder without knowing anything about the character or the setting.

Oh, and Comus - The OP asked for help with a Fighter - and he did not mention to Tome of Battle. If He's asked for help making a Sorcerer would you have piped up 'Play a Psion!'?

Thought not...
JEntropy
06-28-07, 01:16 PM What is 'core 2'?

I wanted to distinguish between what I consider the core rulebooks (PHB1/MM1/DMG1) and newer books (PHB2/MM234/DMG2). It may not be common, but I thought it made sense.

In any event, the Shield feats in the PHB II are very good. Also - I recommend that you choose a bludgeoning weapon as your primarily, that way, you can take advantage of the weapon supremacy tree in the same book, and gain the +2/+2 on your shield as well. There are some exotic shields in Races of Stone which you might look at, if you think you can talk your DM into allowing them (and I'd be very careful about that - it's not nice to badger a DM for extras, ask once and then accept any 'no's that you get).

Great advice. I wasn't planning on badgering the DM; he's brought in alternative material before, he is just reluctant to give a blank check on all of the rulebooks. This being said, he's been open to suggestions in the past, so I don't think it will be an issue. My comment about convincing him was meant more to give people free reign in generating ideas rather than as a "give me something I can try and coerce my DM into letting me use."

But thanks for the insight.

As for flavour - that's slightly harder without knowing anything about the character or the setting.

The campaign features various nations who each represent a different alignment, under the influence of relevant deities. Of the six-member party, we have at least three CG from Kord's nation, two TN from Boccob and one yet-to-be-named (myself). I thought that a LG character under Heironeus (sp?) would shake things up a bit. Originally I considered playing a Pally/Fighter up to the Cavalier PrC, but I'm trying to come up with some different ideas to choose from.

Oh, and Comus - The OP asked for help with a Fighter - and he did not mention to Tome of Battle. If He's asked for help making a Sorcerer would you have piped up 'Play a Psion!'?

Thought not...

How viable/fun do you think this would be, and do you have any better suggestions?

I meant that to be open to martial-oriented builds that were not necessarily the fighter class. Sorry for any confusion.
Comus
06-28-07, 01:17 PM Oh, and Comus - The OP asked for help with a Fighter - and he did not mention to Tome of Battle. If He's asked for help making a Sorcerer would you have piped up 'Play a Psion!'?
and do you have any better suggestions?
Tome of Battle is my Better Suggestion.
Some_call_me_Tim
06-28-07, 02:16 PM Using core stuff, try going the combat expertise, improved trip, improved disarm with a flail. It will let you still get the shield bashing in but opens a lot of opportunities for different tactics. Trip an opponent then disarm him all in one quick action. It's fun to watch opponents try and fight back, stand up--AoO, pick up weapon--AoO, fight unarmed--AoO.

I'm not saying this is an all-powerful build, but I've played and had a lot of fun, as you have all kinds of options in combat.

Power attack and improved overrun is fun for getting at those squishy targets in the back.
High Octane
06-28-07, 02:30 PM How about a graceful swashbuckler? Drop 2 levels in swashbuckler, rack up 4 levels of fighter, take weapon specialization and at the same time daring warrior. From then on you rack up fighter bonus feats with your swashbuckler levels. You also gain most of the features you missed during those 4 levels which you would have gotten with swashbuckler. Have a high dex bonus, some mithril chainmail, a shield (nothing about swashbuckler is lost when using a shield) and combine it with some combat expertise and you have one high AC. Slap on some improved trip and the fact that you will qualify for Greater weapon focus and specialization and you have a workable acrobatic tank. Look up complete scoundrel also, if you are willing to drop your shield bonus you could take daring defense and combine it with combat expertise toget another d6 damage added on. If you take 2 weapon fighting, it will apply to both weapons and you can get the benefit of the 2 handed defense dodge bonus instead.
Comus
06-28-07, 02:55 PM From then on you rack up fighter bonus feats with your swashbuckler levels.
I was under the impression that you didn't get fighter bonus feats, and that your swashbuckler levels just stacked with your fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for fighter-only feats.
Azezel
06-28-07, 04:24 PM Well, if you're not dead set on the Fighter class - I'd strongly recomend that you look into the Knight in the PHB II.

You say you are starting at level 3 - A Human Knight, first level Improved Sheild Bash and Sheild Specialisation, then at level three, Agile Shield Fighter.

You have low TWF penalties, but do not need to pump up your DEX as you would for the TWF feat. As a Knight, you will gain a nice lot of sheild related abilites as Class Features.

Also, and this almost goes without saying, put magic spikes on your shield asap.
Devil Gnasher
06-28-07, 06:55 PM Watch The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and pay special attention to the Man With No Name. Then take that character, or someone like him, into a fantasy setting replace his gun with a sword and give him plate armor. That'll give you some ideas for feats and item selections for your fighter.
RainerNader
06-29-07, 07:01 PM My suggestion is to take the Power Attack feat... not for Power Attack itself, but also Improved Bullrush, Overrun, Sunder, etc.

I built a fighter who basically had all the Improved [Combat Maneuver] feats. Was lots of fun for battlefield control. And if you're ever in a situation where the best maneuver is straight damage, then go ahead and Power Attack.
trapspringer
06-29-07, 07:36 PM An interesting character is a character with options.

No matter what you specialize in, if you do the same thing every round you'll get bored.

Why not collect a couple of feat trees that open up new combat options for you? Combat expertise has been mentioned already. Grappling and the various power attack feat trees are also good options.

The book list you provided also opens up the possibility of tactical feats, which will also give you more choices round to round.

Weapon style feats aren't that fun (in keeping with this idea of what is fun) because they reinforce only doing one thing and are generally pretty feat intensive.
mcnoo
06-29-07, 09:09 PM Have you considered a martial rogue with a tower shield?
You just walk behind them, laughing off their attack of oppurtunity from behind your full cover, when you have them flanked, out comes the sneak attack. Even better would be the fighter variant in the SRD with the sneak attack rather than bonus feats.

Hmm.. just a thought off the top of my head. You can use a ranged weapon from cover with no penalty, what if you used the tower sheild for 9/10 cover and used a whip-dagger. Is that too cheeky?
trapspringer
06-29-07, 10:02 PM Whip-dagger is 3.0.
mcnoo
06-29-07, 10:41 PM Did it not recieve a 3.5 incarnation? Ho hum, another perfectly good* plan down the drain.

*DISCLAIMER: Plans many be less perfect than they apear.
Salla
06-30-07, 12:11 AM I was under the impression that you didn't get fighter bonus feats, and that your swashbuckler levels just stacked with your fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for fighter-only feats.

That is correct.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JEntropy 06-28-07, 11:39 AM	I have to reroll in one of the campaigns I'm in, and I figured I'd play a more martially-oriented character this time. This being said, I don't want to play a PA'ing fighter/barbarian with a greataxe/sword. Powerful, but a been there, done that kinda thing. It's not a deal-breaker, but it's not my preference. I'm looking for something with a little more flair. I was considering playing a fighter who incorporates shield-bashing into combat (a la "300"), which would incorporate the shield feats from PHB 1&2, as well as the two-weapon fighting tree. Not sure whether it matters, but I'll be starting off as an ECL 3. The DM has allowed all core, core2 and the complete series, but I can probably convince him to allow other material on a case-by-case basis. How viable/fun do you think this would be, and do you have any better suggestions?
Comus 06-28-07, 11:56 AM	Try your damnedest to get him to allow Tome of Battle. The options in there are a lot more fun (though not really more powerful) than "charge-full attack-full attack-repeat".
Azezel 06-28-07, 12:55 PM	What is 'core 2'? In any event, the Shield feats in the PHB II are very good. Also - I recommend that you choose a bludgeoning weapon as your primarily, that way, you can take advantage of the weapon supremacy tree in the same book, and gain the +2/+2 on your shield as well. There are some exotic shields in Races of Stone which you might look at, if you think you can talk your DM into allowing them (and I'd be very careful about that - it's not nice to badger a DM for extras, ask once and then accept any 'no's that you get). As for flavour - that's slightly harder without knowing anything about the character or the setting. Oh, and Comus - The OP asked for help with a Fighter - and he did not mention to Tome of Battle. If He's asked for help making a Sorcerer would you have piped up 'Play a Psion!'? Thought not...
JEntropy 06-28-07, 01:16 PM	What is 'core 2'? I wanted to distinguish between what I consider the core rulebooks (PHB1/MM1/DMG1) and newer books (PHB2/MM234/DMG2). It may not be common, but I thought it made sense. In any event, the Shield feats in the PHB II are very good. Also - I recommend that you choose a bludgeoning weapon as your primarily, that way, you can take advantage of the weapon supremacy tree in the same book, and gain the +2/+2 on your shield as well. There are some exotic shields in Races of Stone which you might look at, if you think you can talk your DM into allowing them (and I'd be very careful about that - it's not nice to badger a DM for extras, ask once and then accept any 'no's that you get). Great advice. I wasn't planning on badgering the DM; he's brought in alternative material before, he is just reluctant to give a blank check on all of the rulebooks. This being said, he's been open to suggestions in the past, so I don't think it will be an issue. My comment about convincing him was meant more to give people free reign in generating ideas rather than as a "give me something I can try and coerce my DM into letting me use." But thanks for the insight. As for flavour - that's slightly harder without knowing anything about the character or the setting. The campaign features various nations who each represent a different alignment, under the influence of relevant deities. Of the six-member party, we have at least three CG from Kord's nation, two TN from Boccob and one yet-to-be-named (myself). I thought that a LG character under Heironeus (sp?) would shake things up a bit. Originally I considered playing a Pally/Fighter up to the Cavalier PrC, but I'm trying to come up with some different ideas to choose from. Oh, and Comus - The OP asked for help with a Fighter - and he did not mention to Tome of Battle. If He's asked for help making a Sorcerer would you have piped up 'Play a Psion!'? Thought not... How viable/fun do you think this would be, and do you have any better suggestions? I meant that to be open to martial-oriented builds that were not necessarily the fighter class. Sorry for any confusion.
Comus 06-28-07, 01:17 PM	Oh, and Comus - The OP asked for help with a Fighter - and he did not mention to Tome of Battle. If He's asked for help making a Sorcerer would you have piped up 'Play a Psion!'? and do you have any better suggestions? Tome of Battle is my Better Suggestion.
Some_call_me_Tim 06-28-07, 02:16 PM	Using core stuff, try going the combat expertise, improved trip, improved disarm with a flail. It will let you still get the shield bashing in but opens a lot of opportunities for different tactics. Trip an opponent then disarm him all in one quick action. It's fun to watch opponents try and fight back, stand up--AoO, pick up weapon--AoO, fight unarmed--AoO. I'm not saying this is an all-powerful build, but I've played and had a lot of fun, as you have all kinds of options in combat. Power attack and improved overrun is fun for getting at those squishy targets in the back.
High Octane 06-28-07, 02:30 PM	How about a graceful swashbuckler? Drop 2 levels in swashbuckler, rack up 4 levels of fighter, take weapon specialization and at the same time daring warrior. From then on you rack up fighter bonus feats with your swashbuckler levels. You also gain most of the features you missed during those 4 levels which you would have gotten with swashbuckler. Have a high dex bonus, some mithril chainmail, a shield (nothing about swashbuckler is lost when using a shield) and combine it with some combat expertise and you have one high AC. Slap on some improved trip and the fact that you will qualify for Greater weapon focus and specialization and you have a workable acrobatic tank. Look up complete scoundrel also, if you are willing to drop your shield bonus you could take daring defense and combine it with combat expertise toget another d6 damage added on. If you take 2 weapon fighting, it will apply to both weapons and you can get the benefit of the 2 handed defense dodge bonus instead.
Comus 06-28-07, 02:55 PM	From then on you rack up fighter bonus feats with your swashbuckler levels. I was under the impression that you didn't get fighter bonus feats, and that your swashbuckler levels just stacked with your fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for fighter-only feats.
Azezel 06-28-07, 04:24 PM	Well, if you're not dead set on the Fighter class - I'd strongly recomend that you look into the Knight in the PHB II. You say you are starting at level 3 - A Human Knight, first level Improved Sheild Bash and Sheild Specialisation, then at level three, Agile Shield Fighter. You have low TWF penalties, but do not need to pump up your DEX as you would for the TWF feat. As a Knight, you will gain a nice lot of sheild related abilites as Class Features. Also, and this almost goes without saying, put magic spikes on your shield asap.
Devil Gnasher 06-28-07, 06:55 PM	Watch The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and pay special attention to the Man With No Name. Then take that character, or someone like him, into a fantasy setting replace his gun with a sword and give him plate armor. That'll give you some ideas for feats and item selections for your fighter.
RainerNader 06-29-07, 07:01 PM	My suggestion is to take the Power Attack feat... not for Power Attack itself, but also Improved Bullrush, Overrun, Sunder, etc. I built a fighter who basically had all the Improved [Combat Maneuver] feats. Was lots of fun for battlefield control. And if you're ever in a situation where the best maneuver is straight damage, then go ahead and Power Attack.
trapspringer 06-29-07, 07:36 PM	An interesting character is a character with options. No matter what you specialize in, if you do the same thing every round you'll get bored. Why not collect a couple of feat trees that open up new combat options for you? Combat expertise has been mentioned already. Grappling and the various power attack feat trees are also good options. The book list you provided also opens up the possibility of tactical feats, which will also give you more choices round to round. Weapon style feats aren't that fun (in keeping with this idea of what is fun) because they reinforce only doing one thing and are generally pretty feat intensive.
mcnoo 06-29-07, 09:09 PM	Have you considered a martial rogue with a tower shield? You just walk behind them, laughing off their attack of oppurtunity from behind your full cover, when you have them flanked, out comes the sneak attack. Even better would be the fighter variant in the SRD with the sneak attack rather than bonus feats. Hmm.. just a thought off the top of my head. You can use a ranged weapon from cover with no penalty, what if you used the tower sheild for 9/10 cover and used a whip-dagger. Is that too cheeky?
trapspringer 06-29-07, 10:02 PM	Whip-dagger is 3.0.
mcnoo 06-29-07, 10:41 PM	Did it not recieve a 3.5 incarnation? Ho hum, another perfectly good* plan down the drain. *DISCLAIMER: Plans many be less perfect than they apear.
Salla 06-30-07, 12:11 AM	I was under the impression that you didn't get fighter bonus feats, and that your swashbuckler levels just stacked with your fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for fighter-only feats. That is correct.