Post/Author/DateTime	Post
obsoletehero 09-14-06, 04:50 PM	So I'm working on a cleric of kelemvor (hence the title :D ), and I'm having trouble in planning for things that might happen... Usually in our games, if someone is a cleric, they are just Healbots of Pelor that always take the Healing and Sun domains. But Kelemvor looks extremely interesting.... Unfortunately, the LN alignment is really going to mess me up on the choices I make in-character until i figure out exactly what it means. Kelemvor is 100% anti-undead, for good reason, but how would he look upon resurrection spells? I don't want everyone in the party mad at me when I tell that that we can't get the rogue ressurected at my church because we don't believe in it... (or, if they do get mad, I want to at least know what to say). In the description it says that kelemvor is kind, but stern, and it more and more sounds like he is Good, though it makes more sense that he be Neutral, given the pervasivness of his portfolio. So, who would be oppose? Obviously he'd oppose ravenous bands of raiders who kill indiscrimately, and a tyrant bend on decimating his enemies to bring the lands under subjugation, but how would Kelemvor look upon, say, a community under the rule of an unscrupulous and corrupt magistrate who exploits the townspeople through forced labor and ridiculous taxes? Would I say something like "Well, the people still have their lives which is the most important thing, so I shall not intervene." I know that's the neutral thing to do, and that I certainly wouldn't lead the crusade to remove him from office (politically or militarily), but would a cleric of kelimvor just turn his back and leave? or would either be in accordance with kelemvor's teachings, and it's up to how i would like my character to be? I'm sure I have more questions and thoughts, but I have forgotten the rest of them.... ideas or tips?
draco1119 09-14-06, 05:35 PM	So I'm working on a cleric of kelemvor (hence the title :D ), and I'm having trouble in planning for things that might happen... Usually in our games, if someone is a cleric, they are just Healbots of Pelor that always take the Healing and Sun domains. But Kelemvor looks extremely interesting.... Unfortunately, the LN alignment is really going to mess me up on the choices I make in-character until i figure out exactly what it means. Kelemvor is 100% anti-undead, for good reason, but how would he look upon resurrection spells? I don't want everyone in the party mad at me when I tell that that we can't get the rogue ressurected at my church because we don't believe in it... (or, if they do get mad, I want to at least know what to say). In the description it says that kelemvor is kind, but stern, and it more and more sounds like he is Good, though it makes more sense that he be Neutral, given the pervasivness of his portfolio. So, who would be oppose? Obviously he'd oppose ravenous bands of raiders who kill indiscrimately, and a tyrant bend on decimating his enemies to bring the lands under subjugation, but how would Kelemvor look upon, say, a community under the rule of an unscrupulous and corrupt magistrate who exploits the townspeople through forced labor and ridiculous taxes? Would I say something like "Well, the people still have their lives which is the most important thing, so I shall not intervene." I know that's the neutral thing to do, and that I certainly wouldn't lead the crusade to remove him from office (politically or militarily), but would a cleric of kelimvor just turn his back and leave? or would either be in accordance with kelemvor's teachings, and it's up to how i would like my character to be? I'm sure I have more questions and thoughts, but I have forgotten the rest of them.... ideas or tips? You can also play a LG cleric of Kel, yaknow. Just in case that's easier for you to RP. As for Ressurection, Kel has no problem with it, since he knows they will pass through his realm eventually. As for the corrupt magistrate, he won't personally intervene, but won't mind if one of his clerics does...
Robert Craven 09-14-06, 06:28 PM	I had a L-N cleric of Kelemvor once. He was a pretty powerful undead killer but focused mainly on diplomacy. Talking to people, finding compromises, creating alliances, even with the "enemy" if necessary. But in the face of unjustice he would not hesitate to take action. Though my cleric was on a mission to save his god. And that just stands above any common problems others might have. I don't want everyone in the party mad at me when I tell that that we can't get the rogue ressurected at my church because we don't believe in it No problem there. If there is a good reason to ressurect, he will do it. Although he would not want to be resurrected himself, he even would accept it if necessary. but how would Kelemvor look upon, say, a community under the rule of an unscrupulous and corrupt magistrate who exploits the townspeople through forced labor and ridiculous taxes? Not his problem. The cleric would not approve it. He would not want to live there. But all within acceptable limits.
DraconsNighthawk 09-14-06, 07:16 PM	Personally, your going to have to choose between the Kel of the sourcebooks, or the kel of the avatar triolgy books. The fictional counterpart of him would have singlehandly lead the revolt to kick the living crap out of the mage to take back the city for the people, while the source would likely go meh.
Black Kitten 09-15-06, 03:24 AM	You should look at Kelemvor as the god he is. He was a Paladin I believe before his rise to power. He is stern, but just. He believes that death needs to be a natural path of life for all to know and accept (that's why Lathander doesn't hate him). However, Kelemvor isn't somoene who wants to hold everyone in death against everything. If your character feels that the rogue's 'time has not come' it would actually be a good cause for a cleric of Kelemvor to oversee his resurrection. You could work with the DM to use a kind of devination to contact your god when the situation occurs. If your DM is a friendly fellow, he will get you the answer you need to rez the rogue. I am a great fan of Kelemvor to be honest, as he's the kind of God of the Dead I like (unlike those evil counterparts). And remember that he leans clearly towards good even now. He would not want people to fear death by forced labour. Dignity is an important part of his personality and he would want you to help those people to regain their dignity by freeing them. And I do not believe this is Chaotic, as Kelemvor's law stretches beyond mortal understanding. Then what makes Kelemvor neutral, one may ask? The punishment. Beyond death, Kelemvor works with devils to torture the Faithless and the False. His portifolio of death causes dispair and hopelessness, even though Kelemvor wishes it differently. He strifes towards good, let no mortal die without a Cleric of Kelemvor at his side, provide honourable burials, etc, etc. But even the assurance that someone has passed to a better realm now that he or she has died is not enough to stop the pain of loss. Your task in this world and the world beyond is a grim one. From the morning you wake up till the evening, you are charged with overseeing death and passing to ensure that it happens the way it is supposed to be. You hunt the undead to ensure their souls get the rest they deserve and they are not shackeled in a world between death and life. I hope your character carries a shovel...
Feriin 09-15-06, 02:33 PM	Couple things a few people have gotten wrong here.. Kelemvor was never a paladin, he was a fighter/rogue in life. He was also a werepanther, Bane helped him with that though. As for undead he has no problem at all with say zombies and skeletons and the like mindless undead. It's the undead that are intelligent, the ones that have become undead to cheat death. If I were to make a Cleric of Kelemvor I would probably go LN and select feats/domains/skills/equipement that would allow to hunt Intellegent Undead. As for the corrupt government, as long as they were not greavisly mistreating people I would let it go. Only interfer if I suspected and had some evidence of an Undead being in the mix somehow.
CaoSlayer 09-15-06, 02:57 PM	You are a SCI, you must investigate any murder or unnatural death and see if the poor man died in this time or otherwise punish the murderer... You also are against those who evade death.
Feriin 09-15-06, 06:48 PM	You are a SCI, . SCI? I am guessing you mean CSI. Scene Crime Invstigation, doesn't sound right does it ..
pmurray@bigpond.com 09-16-06, 03:24 AM	I am a great fan of Kelemvor to be honest, as he's the kind of God of the Dead I like (unlike those evil counterparts). A couple of other nice death-gods are Terry Pratchett's DEATH and Peirs Anthony's incarnation of same. You know - death is the thing that is specific to mortals. A good death god understands and is interested in the human condition in a way that other gods cannot be. Lord, we know that there is no good order except that which we create. There is no hope but us. There is no mercy but us. There is no justice. There is just us. All things that are, are ours. But we must care, for if we do not care, we do not exist. If we do not exist, then there is nothing but blind oblivion. And even oblivion must end some day. Lord, will you grant me just a little time? For the proper balance of things. To return what was given. For the sake of prisoners and the flight of birds. Lord, what can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the reaper man?
Kyoti00 09-17-06, 01:43 PM	I played a Paladin/Divine Agent of Kelemvor for a long time. There are several things in the dogma of the Kelemvorian Order that will allow you to adventure and still participate with a good alligned groop. First, Kelemvor hates all undead, and all that use undeath to either cheat death or use undead to further their own purposes. Depending on your DM you could have a lot of undead in the campaign, or be in a quid pro quo situation where you help the party in return for them helping you when undead are out and about. Another great peice of the dogma is that death is a natural part of life, so those that cause unnessesary death and distruction are just as bad as those that abuse undeath. Naturally evil causes unwanted death and destruction, so you are good in almost every situation. This will also aid in your problems with rezing fallen comrades. If they die fighting evil then they were just another victim of that evildoer's murderus ways and died before their due time. The rez is perfectly in line with the ways of Kelemvor. Hope that helps.
Feriin 09-17-06, 03:26 PM	I played a Paladin/Divine Agent of Kelemvor for a long time. There are several things in the dogma of the Kelemvorian Order that will allow you to adventure and still participate with a good alligned groop. First, Kelemvor hates all undead, and all that use undeath to either cheat death or use undead to further their own purposes. Depending on your DM you could have a lot of undead in the campaign, or be in a quid pro quo situation where you help the party in return for them helping you when undead are out and about. Another great peice of the dogma is that death is a natural part of life, so those that cause unnessesary death and distruction are just as bad as those that abuse undeath. Naturally evil causes unwanted death and destruction, so you are good in almost every situation. This will also aid in your problems with rezing fallen comrades. If they die fighting evil then they were just another victim of that evildoer's murderus ways and died before their due time. The rez is perfectly in line with the ways of Kelemvor. Hope that helps. Wow, you just made Kelemvor to be a Lawful Good, Stupid Paladin.. You are seriously stretching alot on pretty much everthing here in your post. Though Kelemvor tends to the good side he is still LN, he doesn't care who kills people. He only cares that all beings get judged for there lives, be they Faithful, the False, or the Faithless. It is because of this that he hates INTELLIGENT UNDEAD, he simply does not care about the mindless undead.
Kyoti00 09-17-06, 03:32 PM	Wow, you just made Kelemvor to be a Lawful Good, Stupid Paladin.. You are seriously stretching alot on pretty much everthing here in your post. Though Kelemvor tends to the good side he is still LN, he doesn't care who kills people. He only cares that all beings get judged for there lives, be they Faithful, the False, or the Faithless. It is because of this that he hates INTELLIGENT UNDEAD, he simply does not care about the mindless undead. I wish I had my Deities and Demigods here so I could quote you the specific dogma. I think you are meshing what you know from the books and what is writen in the game. It also looks like you have some serious attachment to Kelemvor. I was just trying to help the guy out, there is no need to attack me for finding ways that he can make a viable character in a goodly alligned group.
Black Kitten 09-18-06, 02:39 AM	I wish I had my Deities and Demigods here so I could quote you the specific dogma. I think you are meshing what you know from the books and what is writen in the game. It also looks like you have some serious attachment to Kelemvor. I was just trying to help the guy out, there is no need to attack me for finding ways that he can make a viable character in a goodly alligned group. As you requested: Reocgnise that death is part of life. It is not an ending, but a beginning, not a punishment, but a necessity. Death is an orderly process without deceat, concealment and randomness. Help others die with dignity at their appointed time and no sooner. Speak against those that would artificially prolong their life beyond natural limits such as undead. Do honor to the dead, for their strivings in life brought Faerun to where it is now. Forgetting them is to forget where we are now and why. Let no human die a natural death in all Faerun without one of Kelemvor's clerics at her side. I would say that Kelemvor does actually care about mindless undead, for judgement of the soul of the dead is prevented by undeath.
Martryn 09-18-06, 06:08 PM	One, I would think that your character would be against all undeath, but would specifically hunt out and crusade against intelligent udead. All undead is an affront to natural death, as the bodies of the undead used to be the bodies of the living. Since it is your place to oversee burials, it appears that some bodies weren't properly buried and don't want to be properly buried. So feel free to righteously bash the skeletons. As for intelligent undead, they're worse, and I don't see anyone disagreeing about that. A couple of roleplaying ideas from my old cleric/necromancer/mystic theurge of Kelemvor: -Bury the bodies of your fallen foes. Say a few words. Don't feel too obligated if you're in a hurry and other lives are on the line, but a hasty burial is better than none. -Don't loot bodies of your enemy if they have children or a spouse or relative they left behind. Instead keep a little bit for the church of Kelemvor and return the rest. Don't forget to tithe! -I always liked saying (at appropriately morbid times) "Death is a part of life. It isn't an ending, but a beginning, not a punishment, but a necessity." -Being lawful, remember to keep you promises, but don't feel obligated to if you were lied to or somehow mislead. -Being neutral, you wouldn't necessarily feel obliged to root out evil, but remember your loyalty to your party. Neither would you abandon them if they take up a cause. In your example you wouldn't be compelled to end the corrupt government unless you saw or heard tell of lots of death caused by it. Your character might indeed want to pass it up, but if the party decided to go, you wouldn't throw a tantrum either. And once committed to a cause, you wouldn't casually abandon it. -Clerics of Kelemvor pray for spells at night. My cleric always took gentle repose as a spell just in case. Speak with dead and similar spells also work well for roleplaying purposes (and information gathering). Just my take on my particular cleric of Kelemvor. :D