Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thegoodwarlock 05-07-07, 09:51 PM	im having trouple deciding how to make my cleric into a necromancy spellcaster, hes a level 8 and is choatic neutral, when i say necromancer i mean like spells feats, and other things that would make people in the game preceive him as a undeath obbesssed cleric, his domains are death and undeath. im lookin for good prestige classes but theres a problem the DM says i can only use the old complete books(arcana) andthe corebooks. i was thinking at the next level to take up sorcerory as a second class so i could get access to more necro spells, and buying a few items that give negative energy abilities. i cant use libris mortis, heroes of horror. im at a loss now and cant figureout wat to do please help me!!!!!! thanx
Kopana 05-07-07, 10:34 PM	Undeath is a domain? :? Never seen that one before...
temparus2000 05-07-07, 10:43 PM	True Necromancer, if your DM will allow it, best fuses Cleric + arcane caster +Undead Lover. It's in Tome and Blood pg 69, an older book, but it may have been re-printed somewhere
Magrus 05-07-07, 10:50 PM	True Necro was updated in Libris mortis. I have to wonder, if your DM is banning books of that nature, why are you trying so hard to build your character in exactly the direction of those banned books? That just sounds like you are going to irritate your DM by going in a way he isn't wanting to go, and has taken action to attempt to make the picture clear. Have you thought to ask him if he thinks your character concept is a bad one for the game?
thegoodwarlock 05-07-07, 10:50 PM	Undeath is a domain? :? Never seen that one before... yes its in libris mortis and spell compedium
claypigeons 05-07-07, 10:52 PM	i cant use libris mortis, heroes of horror. im at a loss now and cant figureout wat to do please help me!!!!!! Then how do you have Undeath as a domain? But, seriously, without access to the undead oriented feats, just cast necromancy spells. That's really it. Gather up some undead minions (animate/create/c.greater). And, DO NOT multiclass into sorcerer. It won't end well for you. Just stay as a cleric. True Necromancer, if your DM will allow it, best fuses Cleric + arcane caster +Undead Lover. It's in Tome and Blood pg 69, an older book, but it may have been re-printed somewhere True Necromancer was reprinted in Libris Mortis. It's really not that good, unfortunately.
thegoodwarlock 05-07-07, 10:55 PM	hes the type of Dm who doesnt tell you anything exept the history of the world, this is a world he created that goes over a period of 8000 years. all undead in teh world were captured and sent into this hundred level tower to imprison them, and now its a game tower that no one has ever gotten to the top, my group made it to level 12 but the highest anyone ever gotten was 60. he wont tell me why he dosnt want anynew books its annoying so im trying to go around his rules by makin a socoeror/ evil cleric that casts nothin but necro spells and conj spells.
thegoodwarlock 05-07-07, 10:56 PM	we can use spell compendium but thats about it
Magrus 05-07-07, 11:36 PM	hes the type of Dm who doesnt tell you anything exept the history of the world, this is a world he created that goes over a period of 8000 years. all undead in teh world were captured and sent into this hundred level tower to imprison them, and now its a game tower that no one has ever gotten to the top, my group made it to level 12 but the highest anyone ever gotten was 60. he wont tell me why he dosnt want anynew books its annoying so im trying to go around his rules by makin a socoeror/ evil cleric that casts nothin but necro spells and conj spells. Ok, personally, I tell my players when I have a reason I don't want to use books. Even if it is simply a "I don't feel like dealing with it. If you want to use the books, make your own game and take the time to run it, and I'll try playing in your game." my players get a response. So, that's a fault on his end for not just being forward with why he won't allow them. HOWEVER, this attitude of "so im trying to go around his rules" isn't likely to impress him, at all. Nor is it likely to make him laugh and say "Oh, that was a good one, you sure got me. HAHA." It is more likely for you to make him angry, and for him to kill your character, grin and say "Well. Looks like you'll have to make a new one. Disintegrate, nothing left to raise, you know." Which will make you even more mad. Your best bet is to try working it out with him what kind of character would work best. If you just go to him and say "Hey, I had a character concept in mind that I wanted to play, but it doesn't seem like it's going to work for your game. Can you please help me pick a way to use a different one that will fit better for this game?" he might be impressed that you were polite and intelligent in your response and try to find a character that would be fun for the BOTH of you.
JulesCARV 05-08-07, 03:28 AM	I'd go against the sorcerer idea, personally, although you could possibly find a way to make it work. On one hand, a simple, straight cleric without access to Libris Mortis and such isn't as good at necromancy as a cleric who does have access to LM. On the other hand, a game that doesn't include books like LM, Heroes of Horror, etc, won't include Dread Necromancers or anyone who has splatbook-boosted necromancy either, so they still come out being great at it relatively speaking. If possible, it would be good if you could switch your Death domain to Evil instead. It's probably too late to do that, and I'm not sure what god you worship, if any, but evil is better for necroclerics than death. (Possibly try to become a Complete Divine contemplative?) (If Eberron were allowed, Necromancer would be another nice domain. Undeath is fine, but Evil and Necromancer would be best. ECS probably isn't allowed, though.) Divine Spell Power (Complete Divine) is nice feat, at least if you're passably charismatic (which I assume you are if you're considering sorcery). Spend a turning attempt and possibly get a CL boost.
thegoodwarlock 05-08-07, 09:07 AM	his game doesnt have gods so we can worship any domain i want and by the time i get to level 10 my character is supossed to go mad with power for not having a god to worship, but he does have ancients that took over the gods power, oh and all planes in this game are sealed by the old gods who hide in them from the ancients. and hes the type of DM who likes to watch what will happen he doesnt tell you why he just likes to see what will happen. sigh we cant use complete divine just complete acrane
Ack 05-08-07, 10:04 AM	I think you've given us the reason he's banning some books.
Magrus 05-08-07, 10:50 AM	Yeah. Completely ignored my reasonable and logical suggestion. Personally, I'd boot you from my game if I realized you were doing something of this sort after I made it clear your character concept wasn't wanted in my game. Good luck with that though!
thegoodwarlock 05-08-07, 03:15 PM	Yeah. Completely ignored my reasonable and logical suggestion. Personally, I'd boot you from my game if I realized you were doing something of this sort after I made it clear your character concept wasn't wanted in my game. Good luck with that though! i have no idea what you 2 are talkin about, im lookin at the advice and i dont see wat im doin wrong in the campaign, he hasnt told me i cant use undead spells then i wont ill move on to demonic because dragons are extinct. im came on here for alittle advice and now your all snapping at me, im listening to the advice but my partner the paladin he thinks it would be a good idea to take up sorcerory and hes also the team leader and been playing the master of evil game for a long time now so i have to take into his reasons as well, i havent done anything to make the DM mad and he honestly dousnt care what we do as long as we do it quick....
thegoodwarlock 05-08-07, 03:19 PM	Ok, personally, I tell my players when I have a reason I don't want to use books. Even if it is simply a "I don't feel like dealing with it. If you want to use the books, make your own game and take the time to run it, and I'll try playing in your game." my players get a response. So, that's a fault on his end for not just being forward with why he won't allow them. HOWEVER, this attitude of "so im trying to go around his rules" isn't likely to impress him, at all. Nor is it likely to make him laugh and say "Oh, that was a good one, you sure got me. HAHA." It is more likely for you to make him angry, and for him to kill your character, grin and say "Well. Looks like you'll have to make a new one. Disintegrate, nothing left to raise, you know." Which will make you even more mad. Your best bet is to try working it out with him what kind of character would work best. If you just go to him and say "Hey, I had a character concept in mind that I wanted to play, but it doesn't seem like it's going to work for your game. Can you please help me pick a way to use a different one that will fit better for this game?" he might be impressed that you were polite and intelligent in your response and try to find a character that would be fun for the BOTH of you. i dont try to find the loopholes my best freind des does and i always follow him, my character oesnt usuaaly care because hes etiher true netral or chaotic neutral, my character only cares for himself and the battle. ive treid askin him but hes always busy with other charater that have been in this game before, see hes been running this campaign for about 3 years now, not all together, in each 200 year period out of 8000 years, right now were in the middle about towards the end of ch 2 there are 3 chp.
Ack 05-08-07, 03:42 PM	I believe there was a comment you made earlier about how "you always end up running the world, then something happens to kill everyone in the campaign". I also note that you've edited the post in which that comment occurred. That is what I was referring to. And just to note: GMs are within their rights to ban any book. Especially books which have been used to unbalance a game before.
Ack'noth Necrom 05-08-07, 04:15 PM	First off, I think you need to stop this idea of a necromaner and go talk to your DM because if you continue down this line without discussion your going to **** some people off. Be open and honest with him, tell him the concept of the character and the idea behind it. The point is, you need to communicate with the DM If I had banned a certain character type from my game and the player still persued it behind my back I would kick them from the group, but granted Im a hard :censored: and have a long waiting list of players
thegoodwarlock 05-08-07, 08:16 PM	[QUOTE=Ack;12335993]I believe there was a comment you made earlier about how "you always end up running the world, then something happens to kill everyone in the campaign". I also note that you've edited the post in which that comment occurred. QUOTE] see that post was meant about the paladin that is my best freind he always ends up becomeing a shadow dragon or avatar to a god, he always shares his plans with me and in every game i just want to rule the dead i dont care about the quest my character is out to find a hidden race of undead that hid away. i didnt mena rule i meant just....um...well...i never think far ahaed when makin a character i just go with what the group needs, like in this one they needed a healer, this is first group that lasted more than a month, ive just started playing, but ive been studying it since i was in elementary school but just couldnt find anyone to play with, techinically this is my firsatt year playing. and i do try to talk to him about the game but he answers everyting with another question or some riddle of his, he run s great games but he dousnt do much when it comes to helping the players.
temparus2000 05-08-07, 09:17 PM	i have no idea what you 2 are talkin about, im lookin at the advice and i dont see wat im doin wrong in the campaign, he hasnt told me i cant use undead spells then i wont ill move on to demonic because dragons are extinct. im came on here for alittle advice and now your all snapping at me, im listening to the advice but my partner the paladin he thinks it would be a good idea to take up sorcerory and hes also the team leader and been playing the master of evil game for a long time now so i have to take into his reasons as well, i havent done anything to make the DM mad and he honestly dousnt care what we do as long as we do it quick.... people are snapping at you because you aren't listening to them. What they are trying to tell you is "Don't use books the DM has banned. It will anger him." That is some pretty sensical advice. You seem to just want everyone to jump on your bandwagon and give you all sorts of clever tricks you could use to cheat the DM. The reason they aren't doing that is because it's a very bad idea. So you see, you ARE getting advice, you are just choosing to ignore it because it wasn't what you hoped to hear.
Magrus 05-08-07, 09:58 PM	i have no idea what you 2 are talkin about, im lookin at the advice and i dont see wat im doin wrong in the campaign, he hasnt told me i cant use undead spells then i wont ill move on to demonic because dragons are extinct. im came on here for alittle advice and now your all snapping at me, im listening to the advice but my partner the paladin he thinks it would be a good idea to take up sorcerory and hes also the team leader and been playing the master of evil game for a long time now so i have to take into his reasons as well, i havent done anything to make the DM mad and he honestly dousnt care what we do as long as we do it quick.... What we are talking about is that you are trying to take a character concept that your DM is taking efforts to ban. If he banned a book on undead and necromancy, chances are good you shouldn't be a NECROMANCY focused character. It's not a hard concept. If you are asking advice, and you don't like the advice given, that's fine. Mixing different caster type classes is bad. It's been covered, blending cleric/Sorc isn't helpful if you are going to go high level with your char. Do it if you want. Try to find ways around your DM's decisions if you want. He'll likely ban your choices, but I doubt your getting help, as most people try to respect their DM's, and this is a disrespectful path you want to go down.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-08-07, 11:57 PM	hes the type of Dm who doesnt tell you anything exept the history of the world, this is a world he created that goes over a period of 8000 years. all undead in teh world were captured and sent into this hundred level tower to imprison them, and now its a game tower that no one has ever gotten to the top, my group made it to level 12 but the highest anyone ever gotten was 60. he wont tell me why he dosnt want anynew books its annoying so im trying to go around his rules by makin a socoeror/ evil cleric that casts nothin but necro spells and conj spells. Well, if undead are the bad guys and he is permitting Complete Divine, check out Radiant Servant of Pelor and the "Sun" and "Glory" domains. There's more than enough cheese there to build a cleric that pwns undead. Make Cha your highest stat, Wis second. Go "Extra Turning", which you can take as often as you like, "Improved Turning", and "Divine Spell Power". Divine Metamagic is also v. good, but you also need the metamagic feat that you want to goose. I think there's also a "Hunter of the Undead" class somewhere. Consider building a Paladin towards that PrC. Basically - forget necromancy. Fight fire with water.
thegoodwarlock 05-09-07, 11:32 AM	people are snapping at you because you aren't listening to them. What they are trying to tell you is "Don't use books the DM has banned. It will anger him." That is some pretty sensical advice. You seem to just want everyone to jump on your bandwagon and give you all sorts of clever tricks you could use to cheat the DM. The reason they aren't doing that is because it's a very bad idea. So you see, you ARE getting advice, you are just choosing to ignore it because it wasn't what you hoped to hear. I HAVENT USED ANY BANNED BOOKS! we can use spell compedium how many times do i have to say it to get through to you im taking the advice im not rtying to go around the DM, i just like casting undead spells, like neg levels spells and -con spells to end the battle quick. thanx for th eclasses but we cant use complete divine in this game just cores and complete arcana. and write now the enmies we are going after are not undead that whyi chose it, they are living and i cant remember what they are called i thin ka siren, we released her and my leader tried to kill her and she thinks its amusing and hes hotheaded so now hes really angry, she gave him a poster with a map on it to where she lives and it changed to be an image of her now she wont leave the warehouse we live, and she keeps playfully mocking the leader, its really quite funny i had to cast heat metal on his armor to calm him down because she was beating him in battle and he was going to die so i thought id just intervien
VerdugoExplode 05-09-07, 03:40 PM	I HAVENT USED ANY BANNED BOOKS! we can use spell compedium how many times do i have to say it to get through to you im taking the advice im not rtying to go around the DM, i just like casting undead spells, like neg levels spells and -con spells to end the battle quick. Well, you are in spirit. Once again, as so many have stated before the DM probably doesn't want necro themed PC's, hence his banning of the Libris Mortis, a book that's almost entirely dedicated to the aforementioned study. He probably doesn't want PC's of a questionable alignment running around because many of the necromancy spells have the evil subtype and their use is inherently corrupting. You tried to circumvent the DM's banning of the LM by choosing Necro spells from the spell compendium, which is a less than honest action, especially when considering that the compendium is a collection of new and old spells, some of which may have come from the Mortis itself (I think, based on conjecture but not actual proof). My advice is to change and adapt to it, you still have plenty of spells available and the sudden lack of Necro spells probably won't kill you. If it does reroll wizard so you can get all the pew pew you desire.
EvilDeathBee 05-09-07, 04:47 PM	If you can't use necro stuff, why not go in the opposite direction. Your plan is to circumvent his undead strategy. Why not tke it head on and make an Undead Smiting Cleric of Pelor? If you're not using it for necro stuff, you may be able to use Libris Mortis, and you could get the Sacred Purifier PrC. It's not contorl over the undead, but it is a good tactic against them.
temparus2000 05-09-07, 06:59 PM	exactly WHY do you want to be a main caster of necro in an undead-laden world? Undead are immune to almost ALL of the necro spells, so you are in essense fighting very hard to make your character less useful.
thegoodwarlock 05-10-07, 07:37 PM	thanxguys im cooled off now i was a bit on edge because of finals coming up but im fine now. i hear all you advice but see when i chose this type of caster, the DM didnt tell what i could and coudnt use so i was planing on finishing my char from his last campaign who wanted to be the next lich lord and we beat the lich lord but he ened the campaign beforewe could finish it. ijust got off the phone with him he said we could use complete arcana, warrior, adventurer, DMG 1 not 2 PHB 1 not 2, and spell compedium. so what could i do with these? in this stry all undead were imprisoned in this magical 100 level tower that randomizes the level of strength. my character douesnt really have a plan but becuase its no use being a undead smiting cleric then i chose to go the direction of creating undead instead. theres not much to do with a cleric, see i usually play a charisma based caster, but i wanted to try something new. so now im stuck i have all the books on 2 discs and each one has about 10-12 books on them. MY DM has a training that makes our char forget feats and learn new ones, i wasthinking about some metamagic feats? and i have sacred purification too thanxagain