Cleric: I'm a n00b [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric: I'm a n00b [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
freakazoidjake
08-09-06, 01:17 PM This is one of my first time playing D&D, and I don't have anyone around that I can ask these questions right now, so I thought that I would post here.

I am interested in being a cleric with the domains of healing and death. Is that possible? It says in the phb that you cannot have realms with conflicting alignment. I want to be the healer, but I also want to have death magic capabilities.

Help!

Thank you,

Jake
Toloran
08-09-06, 01:30 PM As long as their is a deity who has those two domains, you can have them. There is no restriction (AFAIK) on conflicting domains.

However, if their is a domain combonation that isn't reflected in the standard deities that you want, talk to your DM. They might just find a "rare, here-to-now unknown diety that just so happens to match the domains you wanted."
CPAtheFat
08-09-06, 01:59 PM From the SRD: If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

No reason why your cleric MUST have a deity, in which case you can have healing and death domains.

Also, death is not an alignment, nor is healing. No reason why you can't be a lawful good cleric with the death domain. Of course, depending on how you use it, you may not be lawful good very long.
Reversefigure4
08-09-06, 07:12 PM You may want to consider Wee Jas as a deity. Death is a domain. Healing is not, but since Wee Jas is a neutral deity, you can chose to have spontaneous healing spells, which might fit with what you want. Remember, you don't need to have the healing domain to be the healer.

Failing that, worship an ideal rather than a deity. As a cleric devoted to "the transformation of life" you are interested in both helping people pass over AND in keeping them in this world - the Death and Healing Domains.
DarkNick
08-09-06, 07:29 PM I think they compliment eachother well. Life and Death go hand'n'hand.

Remember though that you don't need to have the healing domain to be a healer - every cleric is capable of healing.
Alric
08-09-06, 07:33 PM Might want to talk to the DM. I recently played a cleric and the DM wouldn't allow me to go with a cause, he said I had to follow a god.
Nephlite
08-09-06, 07:44 PM Might want to talk to the DM. I recently played a cleric and the DM wouldn't allow me to go with a cause, he said I had to follow a god.
Some DMs will houserule against the PHB rules because about Ideal Clerics:
a. they don't like thr idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they can have god force you to do something (command you).
"Thou Shalt nots"
b. they don't like the idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they have never considered the idea.
"Thou Mights"
c. Don't like Clerics so they only allow Dieties so they can fully control them. Maybe be the DM was a Atheist and is taking it on Cleric or the diety.

Usually one of the three.
Azezel
08-10-06, 04:59 AM Some DMs will houserule against the PHB rules because about Ideal Clerics:
a. they don't like thr idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they can have god force you to do something (command you).
"Thou Shalt nots"
b. they don't like the idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they have never considered the idea.
"Thou Mights"
c. Don't like Clerics so they only allow Dieties so they can fully control them. Maybe be the DM was a Atheist and is taking it on Cleric or the diety.

Usually one of the three.

For my part, I don't like Ideal Only Clerics because the idea is loopy. I won't stop anyone from following, or even trying to promote whatever ideal they happen to fancy, but it cannot grant divine magic in my game - you will needa god.

The only reason the PHB allows non-god clerics is so that people who don't wish to RP can skip the god bit and get to the magic. (YEs - I'm sure there is the occasional well RPed exception, but I stand by that generalisation.

And for the record, this atheist doesn't have a problem with propper clerics.

(It's a fantasy game)
kelvinaw273
08-10-06, 05:45 AM I would personally rule that 'ideal only' clerics are those that follow religions that are lacking in specific deities, such as Buddhism. For lone idealists, the Ardent from complete psionic works much better as a 'philosopher/mystic' concept.

Clerics have to have devotion to an ideal or a deity, it's fundamental to their nature and yes, it is the check on their otherwise considerable power (the feared CoDzilla). If you want a cleric of an ideal, your DM has every right to expect you to detail that ideal, and live up to it or lose your powers!
SamiPeikko
08-10-06, 07:19 AM Forgotten Realms specifically forces Clerics to follow gods, not ideals, so it is campaign dependent.
Healing is a domain, and only clerics that turn undead (instead of rebuking them), can spontaneously convert spells to Cure-spells.
Death domain has some Evil aligned spells, so if you play good character with that domain you just can't use those. This also means that Good gods should never have Death domain, although neutrals should technically be able to have it as it is.
For this reason in FR (PGtF) exists almost identical domain called Repose. In it all Evil aligned spells are replaced with others that for example help fighting against Undead.

None of the FR gods have the combination of Healing and Repose.
Protection, Law and Fate are normal for god with Repose domain, and one of them has Good.
freakazoidjake
08-10-06, 02:55 PM Yeah, the phb description for clerics is very vague.

And I think that Death and healing (Personally) go very well together. Even undead is a form of life!

My DM told me that he didn't know, but we'd work something out so I could have both domains. But thanks, I didn't know that you can still have healing powers while being a death domain cleric...

Thanks, you guys!
SamiPeikko
08-11-06, 04:53 AM Some suggestions:
Be a neutral cleric of neutral diety (in Good-Evil axis, that is). This way you can choose to Turn undead, and also can use Evil spells freely, as long as your GM is happy about the balance between good and evil you demonstrate with your actions. If you slip into Evil aligment you will loose your ability to turn, and if you go into Good you can't use Evil spells anymore.

I'd personally recommend Lawful neutral, but think about your god or ideal: is it something about the natural order of life and death (Law), or randomness and chaos with only certainty that everything must eventually die?
One example to give some idea for Lawfull neutral death diety is Kelemvor from Faerun. He does not have Death domain but Repose instead. He opposes undead and diseases, as he sees them to be against natural order of death. (However somehow violent death seems to be regarded as "natural sources" intead. ;) )
Of course your god odes not have to be like that at all, but it is much easier and more fun to play if you think these kind of things through with your GM.
X-Codes
08-11-06, 05:32 AM I'd personally recommend Lawful neutral, but think about your god or ideal: is it something about the natural order of life and death (Law), or randomness and chaos with only certainty that everything must eventually die?
One example to give some idea for Lawfull neutral death diety is Kelemvor from Faerun. He does not have Death domain but Repose instead. He opposes undead and diseases, as he sees them to be against natural order of death. (However somehow violent death seems to be regarded as "natural sources" intead. ;) )
Of course your god odes not have to be like that at all, but it is much easier and more fun to play if you think these kind of things through with your GM.
Haha, don't suggest someone be a Cleric of Kelemvor. Kelemvor is a seriously loopy guy. He plays host to both Celestials and Devils in his realm where he allows them to recruit souls of the fallen into their ranks. He also gets really pissy when Demons come in and steal souls from his realm, but doesn't allow anyone else to attack them except his own servants. He doesn't care if people die or even how they die, just so long as they stay dead or are properly resurrected (or sold on the markets of Hades, or transformed into enslaved demons...). Also, Repose is WEAK compared to Death. Get this guy for his other domains if you want them that much.

Yeah, that guy has issues. In Greyhawk use Wee Jas. In Faerun you can't do this anymore. Actually, I think Velsharoon is the only guy left with the Death domain in FR, everyone else was changed to Repose.
SamiPeikko
08-11-06, 07:45 AM Haha, don't suggest someone be a Cleric of Kelemvor. Kelemvor is a seriously loopy guy. He plays host to both Celestials and Devils in his realm where he allows them to recruit souls of the fallen into their ranks. He also gets really pissy when Demons come in and steal souls from his realm, but doesn't allow anyone else to attack them except his own servants. He doesn't care if people die or even how they die, just so long as they stay dead or are properly resurrected (or sold on the markets of Hades, or transformed into enslaved demons...). Also, Repose is WEAK compared to Death. Get this guy for his other domains if you want them that much.

Well, I am playing a Doomguide and having a blast. All I know about Kelemvor is from Faiths and pantheons, and what I red about the fugue plane, so I and GM have to wing it when discussing with the rest of the PC:s topics like "how bad it actually is to summon Fiendish creatues" (our team has been named Fiendish Direbat Company) and "in training we did not pick on our fellow priests just because they were Evil". This makes tha character fun to play and memorable without disrupting the party.

I think that Repose is actually stronger domain. I understand that you think low level domain spell for Death domain are better, but those are regular Cleric spells anyway. And Create Undead spells are not something you would want as a domain spell, because they have material component with price. Repose domain gives you access to one spell you could not otherwise take, and the killing spells are still there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
freakazoidjake 08-09-06, 01:17 PM	This is one of my first time playing D&D, and I don't have anyone around that I can ask these questions right now, so I thought that I would post here. I am interested in being a cleric with the domains of healing and death. Is that possible? It says in the phb that you cannot have realms with conflicting alignment. I want to be the healer, but I also want to have death magic capabilities. Help! Thank you, Jake
Toloran 08-09-06, 01:30 PM	As long as their is a deity who has those two domains, you can have them. There is no restriction (AFAIK) on conflicting domains. However, if their is a domain combonation that isn't reflected in the standard deities that you want, talk to your DM. They might just find a "rare, here-to-now unknown diety that just so happens to match the domains you wanted."
CPAtheFat 08-09-06, 01:59 PM	From the SRD: If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies. No reason why your cleric MUST have a deity, in which case you can have healing and death domains. Also, death is not an alignment, nor is healing. No reason why you can't be a lawful good cleric with the death domain. Of course, depending on how you use it, you may not be lawful good very long.
Reversefigure4 08-09-06, 07:12 PM	You may want to consider Wee Jas as a deity. Death is a domain. Healing is not, but since Wee Jas is a neutral deity, you can chose to have spontaneous healing spells, which might fit with what you want. Remember, you don't need to have the healing domain to be the healer. Failing that, worship an ideal rather than a deity. As a cleric devoted to "the transformation of life" you are interested in both helping people pass over AND in keeping them in this world - the Death and Healing Domains.
DarkNick 08-09-06, 07:29 PM	I think they compliment eachother well. Life and Death go hand'n'hand. Remember though that you don't need to have the healing domain to be a healer - every cleric is capable of healing.
Alric 08-09-06, 07:33 PM	Might want to talk to the DM. I recently played a cleric and the DM wouldn't allow me to go with a cause, he said I had to follow a god.
Nephlite 08-09-06, 07:44 PM	Might want to talk to the DM. I recently played a cleric and the DM wouldn't allow me to go with a cause, he said I had to follow a god. Some DMs will houserule against the PHB rules because about Ideal Clerics: a. they don't like thr idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they can have god force you to do something (command you). "Thou Shalt nots" b. they don't like the idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they have never considered the idea. "Thou Mights" c. Don't like Clerics so they only allow Dieties so they can fully control them. Maybe be the DM was a Atheist and is taking it on Cleric or the diety. Usually one of the three.
Azezel 08-10-06, 04:59 AM	Some DMs will houserule against the PHB rules because about Ideal Clerics: a. they don't like thr idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they can have god force you to do something (command you). "Thou Shalt nots" b. they don't like the idea of Ideal only Clerics. Perfer Gods because they have never considered the idea. "Thou Mights" c. Don't like Clerics so they only allow Dieties so they can fully control them. Maybe be the DM was a Atheist and is taking it on Cleric or the diety. Usually one of the three. For my part, I don't like Ideal Only Clerics because the idea is loopy. I won't stop anyone from following, or even trying to promote whatever ideal they happen to fancy, but it cannot grant divine magic in my game - you will needa god. The only reason the PHB allows non-god clerics is so that people who don't wish to RP can skip the god bit and get to the magic. (YEs - I'm sure there is the occasional well RPed exception, but I stand by that generalisation. And for the record, this atheist doesn't have a problem with propper clerics. (It's a fantasy game)
kelvinaw273 08-10-06, 05:45 AM	I would personally rule that 'ideal only' clerics are those that follow religions that are lacking in specific deities, such as Buddhism. For lone idealists, the Ardent from complete psionic works much better as a 'philosopher/mystic' concept. Clerics have to have devotion to an ideal or a deity, it's fundamental to their nature and yes, it is the check on their otherwise considerable power (the feared CoDzilla). If you want a cleric of an ideal, your DM has every right to expect you to detail that ideal, and live up to it or lose your powers!
SamiPeikko 08-10-06, 07:19 AM	Forgotten Realms specifically forces Clerics to follow gods, not ideals, so it is campaign dependent. Healing is a domain, and only clerics that turn undead (instead of rebuking them), can spontaneously convert spells to Cure-spells. Death domain has some Evil aligned spells, so if you play good character with that domain you just can't use those. This also means that Good gods should never have Death domain, although neutrals should technically be able to have it as it is. For this reason in FR (PGtF) exists almost identical domain called Repose. In it all Evil aligned spells are replaced with others that for example help fighting against Undead. None of the FR gods have the combination of Healing and Repose. Protection, Law and Fate are normal for god with Repose domain, and one of them has Good.
freakazoidjake 08-10-06, 02:55 PM	Yeah, the phb description for clerics is very vague. And I think that Death and healing (Personally) go very well together. Even undead is a form of life! My DM told me that he didn't know, but we'd work something out so I could have both domains. But thanks, I didn't know that you can still have healing powers while being a death domain cleric... Thanks, you guys!
SamiPeikko 08-11-06, 04:53 AM	Some suggestions: Be a neutral cleric of neutral diety (in Good-Evil axis, that is). This way you can choose to Turn undead, and also can use Evil spells freely, as long as your GM is happy about the balance between good and evil you demonstrate with your actions. If you slip into Evil aligment you will loose your ability to turn, and if you go into Good you can't use Evil spells anymore. I'd personally recommend Lawful neutral, but think about your god or ideal: is it something about the natural order of life and death (Law), or randomness and chaos with only certainty that everything must eventually die? One example to give some idea for Lawfull neutral death diety is Kelemvor from Faerun. He does not have Death domain but Repose instead. He opposes undead and diseases, as he sees them to be against natural order of death. (However somehow violent death seems to be regarded as "natural sources" intead. ;) ) Of course your god odes not have to be like that at all, but it is much easier and more fun to play if you think these kind of things through with your GM.
X-Codes 08-11-06, 05:32 AM	I'd personally recommend Lawful neutral, but think about your god or ideal: is it something about the natural order of life and death (Law), or randomness and chaos with only certainty that everything must eventually die? One example to give some idea for Lawfull neutral death diety is Kelemvor from Faerun. He does not have Death domain but Repose instead. He opposes undead and diseases, as he sees them to be against natural order of death. (However somehow violent death seems to be regarded as "natural sources" intead. ;) ) Of course your god odes not have to be like that at all, but it is much easier and more fun to play if you think these kind of things through with your GM. Haha, don't suggest someone be a Cleric of Kelemvor. Kelemvor is a seriously loopy guy. He plays host to both Celestials and Devils in his realm where he allows them to recruit souls of the fallen into their ranks. He also gets really pissy when Demons come in and steal souls from his realm, but doesn't allow anyone else to attack them except his own servants. He doesn't care if people die or even how they die, just so long as they stay dead or are properly resurrected (or sold on the markets of Hades, or transformed into enslaved demons...). Also, Repose is WEAK compared to Death. Get this guy for his other domains if you want them that much. Yeah, that guy has issues. In Greyhawk use Wee Jas. In Faerun you can't do this anymore. Actually, I think Velsharoon is the only guy left with the Death domain in FR, everyone else was changed to Repose.
SamiPeikko 08-11-06, 07:45 AM	Haha, don't suggest someone be a Cleric of Kelemvor. Kelemvor is a seriously loopy guy. He plays host to both Celestials and Devils in his realm where he allows them to recruit souls of the fallen into their ranks. He also gets really pissy when Demons come in and steal souls from his realm, but doesn't allow anyone else to attack them except his own servants. He doesn't care if people die or even how they die, just so long as they stay dead or are properly resurrected (or sold on the markets of Hades, or transformed into enslaved demons...). Also, Repose is WEAK compared to Death. Get this guy for his other domains if you want them that much. Well, I am playing a Doomguide and having a blast. All I know about Kelemvor is from Faiths and pantheons, and what I red about the fugue plane, so I and GM have to wing it when discussing with the rest of the PC:s topics like "how bad it actually is to summon Fiendish creatues" (our team has been named Fiendish Direbat Company) and "in training we did not pick on our fellow priests just because they were Evil". This makes tha character fun to play and memorable without disrupting the party. I think that Repose is actually stronger domain. I understand that you think low level domain spell for Death domain are better, but those are regular Cleric spells anyway. And Create Undead spells are not something you would want as a domain spell, because they have material component with price. Repose domain gives you access to one spell you could not otherwise take, and the killing spells are still there.