Clerics [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Clerics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rico_Huerta
09-11-07, 12:05 AM How long until a cleric can stop being the heal pony and start throwing down himself? About what level?
Salla
09-11-07, 12:21 AM I'd say around 7th. That's when he gets Divine Power (+8 STR, Full BAB, and temporary HP).
Borris
09-11-07, 01:05 AM From experience, I'd say you're pretty much condemned to be a walking healing battery or Band-Aid box until 4th level. You can fill the role of a secondary fighter if the party gets attacked by many weak enemies instead of one strong monster (your AC and hp make you better at surviving this than the rogue), but otherwise you're better offf hiding behind the fighter o heal him as needed.

Starting at 5th-level, you'll come to spend a lesser fraction of your spell slots on healing with each passing level. Of course, at first thse spells will simply go to buffing instead, with spells like prayer, bull's strength, shield of faith. Luckily for you, those spells will quickly become obsolete as everyone finds rings of protection, belts of giant's strength, or gloves of dexterity.

By the time you reach 7th level, you should be devoted about one third of your spells to healing, one third to buffing (which should now included buffing yourself, with spells like divine power or righteous might), and one third to blasting and problem-solving (with divinations and the like). As you gain more levels, you'll keep using less and less spells for healing, a bit more on buffing the party, and even more to be used in battle. I'm currently playing in a 16th-level campaign, with a cleric caster level of only 13th, and I still never run out of spells at the end of a day. Even after all the 1 hour or 10 min/level pre-buffing has been done and all the day's encounters are done, I still usually have enough to heal everyone's wounds. And if I can't heal everything, that's what wands of cure light wounds are for.
navar100
09-11-07, 01:06 AM Level 1

It's partially build since you need some mechanics to back yourself up, such as strength and spell selection, and partially what you want to do with the character - the choices you make.

Healing is important, but never let anyone tell you that's all clerics can do.
Kraz
09-11-07, 08:36 AM You can start at level 1. There are lots of great spells that can hurt an enemy. Cast command then tell them sit, or down, or any of a number of other things. Not only that but taking a deity with the war domain and a good two hander can really boost your attack abilities.

Starting at 5th-level, you'll come to spend a lesser fraction of your spell slots on healing with each passing level.

You should NEVER devote any of your spell slots to healing since you have the ability to spontaneously convert any spell you can cast into a healing spell. Unless you're evil of course.
Sunic_Flames
09-11-07, 08:44 AM There are so many ways to heal without using a spell at all there is no reason a cleric cannot throw down if they wish, only healing in emergencies while still covering it. Scrolls/wands/wonderous items... all are better for out of combat healing, just to name a few. In combat, you only need to be healed if you are within a round of dropping.

If it really bothers you, leadership > healer cohort. Let THEM be the heal bot.
Borris
09-11-07, 10:57 PM You should NEVER devote any of your spell slots to healing since you have the ability to spontaneously convert any spell you can cast into a healing spell. Unless you're evil of course.

I totally agree with you, yet at low levels (1st or 2nd), where everyone has under 20 hp (yet CR 1/2 orc warriors hit for an average of 10 hp) and wands or potions of cure light wounds are too expensive to be bought, you'll need all the healing a cleric can give if he's the only healer in the party. In the end, though none of his spells slots are prepared as such, most will have ended up being spent for cure spells. Luckily, that quickly stops as you gain levels.
The9Circles
09-11-07, 11:54 PM I totally agree with you, yet at low levels (1st or 2nd), where everyone has under 20 hp (yet CR 1/2 orc warriors hit for an average of 10 hp) and wands or potions of cure light wounds are too expensive to be bought, you'll need all the healing a cleric can give if he's the only healer in the party. In the end, though none of his spells slots are prepared as such, most will have ended up being spent for cure spells. Luckily, that quickly stops as you gain levels.

I'd limit that to first...you can get a healing belt or two by 2nd if you tell your DM..."Hey man, I don't want to be a f'n heal bot. Give us some good healing magical items as lewt." At least if the DM isn't an ass.
Eater_Of_Souls
09-12-07, 03:16 AM Well it all depends on the DM and how he runs encounters.
If your group is needing healing all the time in combat talk with your GM as something is messed up.
as for divine power it has no limit for BAB bonus, only limit is your caster level so at level 20 you could have +35 (15 +20) base attack bonus and all iterative attacks that come with it :devil:

For the first few levels cleric can't do much as your spell selection is pretty limited.
When you get your 3rd and 4th level spells you get access to several powerful spells that make cleric near or equal to any fighter in melee.
The most powerful spell a priest can have are those which have no meaning in combat at first glance for example take a look at hold person it paralyses the victim but what happens to a paralysed victims in high places, they fall down and range is the same as in fireball so you don't have worry about that archer any more.
Then we have the briar web which is essentially the same as entangle but with thorns that deal 1d4dmg to each creature moving in square that it occupies.
Doesn't sound much but when you think of it in combination with several low level orcs ...

As a last mention never ever prepare any low level healing spells because you have spontanious casting so you can allways heal if it seems necessary as long as you have spells and even an orison that heals 1hp is enough to stabilize a dying character.
Also you can put a few ranks to heal that helps with long term cure when camping off-scene.
Cifer
09-12-07, 08:34 AM as for divine power it has no limit for BAB bonus, only limit is your caster level so at level 20 you could have +35 (15 +20) base attack bonus and all iterative attacks that come with it
Except for the fact it doesn't work that way. You don't get a plus to your BAB, it's just set to your character level, meaning a Level 20 character gets a BAB of... 20.
Sunic_Flames
09-12-07, 08:42 AM I'd limit that to first...you can get a healing belt or two by 2nd if you tell your DM..."Hey man, I don't want to be a f'n heal bot. Give us some good healing magical items as lewt." At least if the DM isn't an ass.

I concur and agree fully. Before this, scrolls are... 25 gp? Maybe less if you can produce them yourself. You could start with one or more, tell the others to buy them and give them to you to use on their behalf... Clerics are only heal bots if you want them to be, or you have a paranoid DM who won't give the party useful treasure.
Cifer
09-12-07, 09:24 AM Maybe less if you can produce them yourself.
Well, you could co-produce them with the group wizard - he automatically gets the Scribe Scroll feat so you can provide him with the spells.
Eater_Of_Souls
09-12-07, 09:58 AM Except for the fact it doesn't work that way. You don't get a plus to your BAB, it's just set to your character level, meaning a Level 20 character gets a BAB of... 20.

I noticed when I rechecked description still the same as fighters BAB at lvl 20 though. :P
Also +6 to STR and +1hp/level
The9Circles
09-12-07, 10:19 AM Except for the fact it doesn't work that way. You don't get a plus to your BAB, it's just set to your character level, meaning a Level 20 character gets a BAB of... 20.

Eh it isn't hard for a Cleric to pump up his CL to 30 tho with items and feats.
Matthew77
09-12-07, 10:27 AM Divine Power:

Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue yourself with strength and skill in combat. Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level.

Note that the bolded phrase is different from the underlined phrase.
Increasing your caster level to 30 will give you 30 temporary hit points, but it won't give you a 30 BAB.
The only way to raise your character level is to actually gain experience.

As to the original question: Level One.
Absolutely nothing requires the Cleric to devote any of his resources to healing. Just tell your group, "I'm going to make a melee combatant", and use Cleric as your class.
Phrennzy
09-12-07, 10:49 AM Level 1.

You can wear plate, a shield, and wield a mace. You will kick ass.
RobbyPants
09-12-07, 11:31 AM Not only that but taking a deity with the war domain and a good two hander can really boost your attack abilities.
That's how I would do it. Combined with Power Attack, you can deal pretty decent damage. Once you get Divine Power and your BAB goes up, that makes Power Attack all the more viable.

Feats like Combat Brute will take Power Attack further (although you'll have to wait until 9th level instead of 6th to qualify). Leap Attack can work well in combination, but the Jump check prereq is pretty tough (13th level for a straight Cleric).

Long story short, a decent cleric can do pretty well right off the bat at 1st level. The reason they often don't is because they're poorly built and poorly played. Running around with a mace and shield, casting nothing but Bless and cures is not using your full potential. It's akin to playing a longsword fighter, and blowing all your bonus feats on Toughness.
Sunic_Flames
09-12-07, 11:40 AM Level 1.

You can wear plate, a shield, and wield a mace. You will kick ass.

Ok, but where are you getting 1,500-2,000 gp at level 1?
Eater_Of_Souls
09-12-07, 11:49 AM That's how I would do it. Combined with Power Attack, you can deal pretty decent damage. Once you get Divine Power and your BAB goes up, that makes Power Attack all the more viable.

Long story short, a decent cleric can do pretty well right off the bat at 1st level. The reason they often don't is because they're poorly built and poorly played. Running around with a mace and shield, casting nothing but Bless and cures is not using your full potential. It's akin to playing a longsword fighter, and blowing all your bonus feats on Toughness.

Well my clerics usually suk because I wan't to focus more on spell casting side with out losing combat potency, I usually end up sucking equally in both. :P
My next priest is going to be a warpriest, however I haven't decided if I should take the prestige class as my 8th or 11th level either way I would still "have to" take 3 levels more before being a level 20 assuming my character will live that far :P
So any suggestions, fill out the cleric levels first or take prestige class as soon as possible at 8th level ?
The9Circles
09-12-07, 11:54 AM Divine Power:

Note that the bolded phrase is different from the underlined phrase.
Increasing your caster level to 30 will give you 30 temporary hit points, but it won't give you a 30 BAB.
The only way to raise your character level is to actually gain experience.

As to the original question: Level One.
Absolutely nothing requires the Cleric to devote any of his resources to healing. Just tell your group, "I'm going to make a melee combatant", and use Cleric as your class.

Oops =0 I always forget cleric spells (I'm an Arcanist, always.)
RobbyPants
09-12-07, 11:57 AM Well my clerics usually suk because I wan't to focus more on spell casting side with out losing combat potency, I usually end up sucking equally in both. :P
My next priest is going to be a warpriest, however I haven't decided if I should take the prestige class as my 8th or 11th level either way I would still "have to" take 3 levels more before being a level 20 assuming my character will live that far :P
So any suggestions, fill out the cleric levels first or take prestige class as soon as possible at 8th level ?
Well, I guess it really depends on what you're after. If all you are really driving for is to be a warpriest, then you'll probably want to enter it as quickly as possible. If you're looking for MOAR POWER, then I'd consider a different PrC entirely. IIRC, you lose several caster levels with warpriest, and there are several PrCs in the Complete Divine that offer full casting. Really, when you look at it, cleric is a full casting class, that has the ability to wear armor while casting. You tend to end up with a nerfed character if you go into it with the mindset of being a tank that can cast some defensive magic.

Still, if what you're after is a theme and/or roleplaying potential, then go for the PrC early. Just don't expect to be teh uber brokezen pwnzer.
pres_man
09-12-07, 02:44 PM When can you get Brew Potion? There you go. "Heal me I'm hurt!" "I gave you a potion, waste your actions this round drinking it, I'm busy putting the beat down."
MogliGrimTooth
09-12-07, 09:43 PM This may not help but....

Im our campaign everyone is responsable for thier own healing.
But thier own pots and wands as such...

We have an alternative/house rule that you can only swap spells out for healing spells if your primary domain is the healing domain.
Otherwise you swap out for spells of you primary domain.....

Stops clerics being heal bots...
Has worked out real well healing has not been an issue.....

MGT......
OneWinged4ngel
09-12-07, 11:31 PM How long until a cleric can stop being the heal pony and start throwing down himself? About what level?

Level 1.

Quite frankly, anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually know how to play a cleric. A few examples of clerics throwing down at level 1:

1) Resources required: PHB. Cast Command.
2) Resources required: PHB. Cast Cause Fear.
3) Resources required: PHB II. Cast Blade of Blood, and your melee attacks deal +3d6 damage (and you do 5 damage to yourself). Wear the best armor you can. Charge. Take the war domain (or something similarly useful). With a mere 14 Strength, you're doing 5d6+3 damage with a +5 to your attack roll, and that's before you add in any buffs or anything. In fact, this is just the beginning of the level 1 melee cleric's potential. With a masterwork weapon (or casting Magic Weapon or Guidance before a fight), that bonus rises to +6. With Law Devotion, you can get another +3 once a day (or more by expending turn checks). With Divine Might, you can add Charisma to damage by expending turns. With a potion of Enlarge Person, you get a more damaging weapon, reach, and so forth. With Powerful Charge, you add a coupla d6s to your damage when charging. With Rapid Assault, you get extra damage on the first round of combat. The list goes on and on.

These are just a few of many, many options. My clerics always start usin' scrolls to cover healing at level 1, because their spell slots are busy making them awesome.

Again, if anyone tells you anything other than "Level 1" then they don't know how to play a cleric well. That's all there is to it.

I totally agree with you, yet at low levels (1st or 2nd), where everyone has under 20 hp (yet CR 1/2 orc warriors hit for an average of 10 hp) and wands or potions of cure light wounds are too expensive to be bought, you'll need all the healing a cleric can give if he's the only healer in the party.

I've never found this to be true, even with 4 encounters per day at a CR higher than my level with enemies using intelligent tactics. Buy or scribe some scrolls of Lesser Vigor to heal up between battles (they cost next to nothing, and even a level 1 character can get a load of them.) Use your awesome combat abilities to make it so that you rarely have to use those scrolls anyways. Done and done. No need to be a healbot as a cleric. Ever.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rico_Huerta 09-11-07, 12:05 AM	How long until a cleric can stop being the heal pony and start throwing down himself? About what level?
Salla 09-11-07, 12:21 AM	I'd say around 7th. That's when he gets Divine Power (+8 STR, Full BAB, and temporary HP).
Borris 09-11-07, 01:05 AM	From experience, I'd say you're pretty much condemned to be a walking healing battery or Band-Aid box until 4th level. You can fill the role of a secondary fighter if the party gets attacked by many weak enemies instead of one strong monster (your AC and hp make you better at surviving this than the rogue), but otherwise you're better offf hiding behind the fighter o heal him as needed. Starting at 5th-level, you'll come to spend a lesser fraction of your spell slots on healing with each passing level. Of course, at first thse spells will simply go to buffing instead, with spells like prayer, bull's strength, shield of faith. Luckily for you, those spells will quickly become obsolete as everyone finds rings of protection, belts of giant's strength, or gloves of dexterity. By the time you reach 7th level, you should be devoted about one third of your spells to healing, one third to buffing (which should now included buffing yourself, with spells like divine power or righteous might), and one third to blasting and problem-solving (with divinations and the like). As you gain more levels, you'll keep using less and less spells for healing, a bit more on buffing the party, and even more to be used in battle. I'm currently playing in a 16th-level campaign, with a cleric caster level of only 13th, and I still never run out of spells at the end of a day. Even after all the 1 hour or 10 min/level pre-buffing has been done and all the day's encounters are done, I still usually have enough to heal everyone's wounds. And if I can't heal everything, that's what wands of cure light wounds are for.
navar100 09-11-07, 01:06 AM	Level 1 It's partially build since you need some mechanics to back yourself up, such as strength and spell selection, and partially what you want to do with the character - the choices you make. Healing is important, but never let anyone tell you that's all clerics can do.
Kraz 09-11-07, 08:36 AM	You can start at level 1. There are lots of great spells that can hurt an enemy. Cast command then tell them sit, or down, or any of a number of other things. Not only that but taking a deity with the war domain and a good two hander can really boost your attack abilities. Starting at 5th-level, you'll come to spend a lesser fraction of your spell slots on healing with each passing level. You should NEVER devote any of your spell slots to healing since you have the ability to spontaneously convert any spell you can cast into a healing spell. Unless you're evil of course.
Sunic_Flames 09-11-07, 08:44 AM	There are so many ways to heal without using a spell at all there is no reason a cleric cannot throw down if they wish, only healing in emergencies while still covering it. Scrolls/wands/wonderous items... all are better for out of combat healing, just to name a few. In combat, you only need to be healed if you are within a round of dropping. If it really bothers you, leadership > healer cohort. Let THEM be the heal bot.
Borris 09-11-07, 10:57 PM	You should NEVER devote any of your spell slots to healing since you have the ability to spontaneously convert any spell you can cast into a healing spell. Unless you're evil of course. I totally agree with you, yet at low levels (1st or 2nd), where everyone has under 20 hp (yet CR 1/2 orc warriors hit for an average of 10 hp) and wands or potions of cure light wounds are too expensive to be bought, you'll need all the healing a cleric can give if he's the only healer in the party. In the end, though none of his spells slots are prepared as such, most will have ended up being spent for cure spells. Luckily, that quickly stops as you gain levels.
The9Circles 09-11-07, 11:54 PM	I totally agree with you, yet at low levels (1st or 2nd), where everyone has under 20 hp (yet CR 1/2 orc warriors hit for an average of 10 hp) and wands or potions of cure light wounds are too expensive to be bought, you'll need all the healing a cleric can give if he's the only healer in the party. In the end, though none of his spells slots are prepared as such, most will have ended up being spent for cure spells. Luckily, that quickly stops as you gain levels. I'd limit that to first...you can get a healing belt or two by 2nd if you tell your DM..."Hey man, I don't want to be a f'n heal bot. Give us some good healing magical items as lewt." At least if the DM isn't an ass.
Eater_Of_Souls 09-12-07, 03:16 AM	Well it all depends on the DM and how he runs encounters. If your group is needing healing all the time in combat talk with your GM as something is messed up. as for divine power it has no limit for BAB bonus, only limit is your caster level so at level 20 you could have +35 (15 +20) base attack bonus and all iterative attacks that come with it :devil: For the first few levels cleric can't do much as your spell selection is pretty limited. When you get your 3rd and 4th level spells you get access to several powerful spells that make cleric near or equal to any fighter in melee. The most powerful spell a priest can have are those which have no meaning in combat at first glance for example take a look at hold person it paralyses the victim but what happens to a paralysed victims in high places, they fall down and range is the same as in fireball so you don't have worry about that archer any more. Then we have the briar web which is essentially the same as entangle but with thorns that deal 1d4dmg to each creature moving in square that it occupies. Doesn't sound much but when you think of it in combination with several low level orcs ... As a last mention never ever prepare any low level healing spells because you have spontanious casting so you can allways heal if it seems necessary as long as you have spells and even an orison that heals 1hp is enough to stabilize a dying character. Also you can put a few ranks to heal that helps with long term cure when camping off-scene.
Cifer 09-12-07, 08:34 AM	as for divine power it has no limit for BAB bonus, only limit is your caster level so at level 20 you could have +35 (15 +20) base attack bonus and all iterative attacks that come with it Except for the fact it doesn't work that way. You don't get a plus to your BAB, it's just set to your character level, meaning a Level 20 character gets a BAB of... 20.
Sunic_Flames 09-12-07, 08:42 AM	I'd limit that to first...you can get a healing belt or two by 2nd if you tell your DM..."Hey man, I don't want to be a f'n heal bot. Give us some good healing magical items as lewt." At least if the DM isn't an ass. I concur and agree fully. Before this, scrolls are... 25 gp? Maybe less if you can produce them yourself. You could start with one or more, tell the others to buy them and give them to you to use on their behalf... Clerics are only heal bots if you want them to be, or you have a paranoid DM who won't give the party useful treasure.
Cifer 09-12-07, 09:24 AM	Maybe less if you can produce them yourself. Well, you could co-produce them with the group wizard - he automatically gets the Scribe Scroll feat so you can provide him with the spells.
Eater_Of_Souls 09-12-07, 09:58 AM	Except for the fact it doesn't work that way. You don't get a plus to your BAB, it's just set to your character level, meaning a Level 20 character gets a BAB of... 20. I noticed when I rechecked description still the same as fighters BAB at lvl 20 though. :P Also +6 to STR and +1hp/level
The9Circles 09-12-07, 10:19 AM	Except for the fact it doesn't work that way. You don't get a plus to your BAB, it's just set to your character level, meaning a Level 20 character gets a BAB of... 20. Eh it isn't hard for a Cleric to pump up his CL to 30 tho with items and feats.
Matthew77 09-12-07, 10:27 AM	Divine Power: Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue yourself with strength and skill in combat. Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level. Note that the bolded phrase is different from the underlined phrase. Increasing your caster level to 30 will give you 30 temporary hit points, but it won't give you a 30 BAB. The only way to raise your character level is to actually gain experience. As to the original question: Level One. Absolutely nothing requires the Cleric to devote any of his resources to healing. Just tell your group, "I'm going to make a melee combatant", and use Cleric as your class.
Phrennzy 09-12-07, 10:49 AM	Level 1. You can wear plate, a shield, and wield a mace. You will kick ass.
RobbyPants 09-12-07, 11:31 AM	Not only that but taking a deity with the war domain and a good two hander can really boost your attack abilities. That's how I would do it. Combined with Power Attack, you can deal pretty decent damage. Once you get Divine Power and your BAB goes up, that makes Power Attack all the more viable. Feats like Combat Brute will take Power Attack further (although you'll have to wait until 9th level instead of 6th to qualify). Leap Attack can work well in combination, but the Jump check prereq is pretty tough (13th level for a straight Cleric). Long story short, a decent cleric can do pretty well right off the bat at 1st level. The reason they often don't is because they're poorly built and poorly played. Running around with a mace and shield, casting nothing but Bless and cures is not using your full potential. It's akin to playing a longsword fighter, and blowing all your bonus feats on Toughness.
Sunic_Flames 09-12-07, 11:40 AM	Level 1. You can wear plate, a shield, and wield a mace. You will kick ass. Ok, but where are you getting 1,500-2,000 gp at level 1?
Eater_Of_Souls 09-12-07, 11:49 AM	That's how I would do it. Combined with Power Attack, you can deal pretty decent damage. Once you get Divine Power and your BAB goes up, that makes Power Attack all the more viable. Long story short, a decent cleric can do pretty well right off the bat at 1st level. The reason they often don't is because they're poorly built and poorly played. Running around with a mace and shield, casting nothing but Bless and cures is not using your full potential. It's akin to playing a longsword fighter, and blowing all your bonus feats on Toughness. Well my clerics usually suk because I wan't to focus more on spell casting side with out losing combat potency, I usually end up sucking equally in both. :P My next priest is going to be a warpriest, however I haven't decided if I should take the prestige class as my 8th or 11th level either way I would still "have to" take 3 levels more before being a level 20 assuming my character will live that far :P So any suggestions, fill out the cleric levels first or take prestige class as soon as possible at 8th level ?
The9Circles 09-12-07, 11:54 AM	Divine Power: Note that the bolded phrase is different from the underlined phrase. Increasing your caster level to 30 will give you 30 temporary hit points, but it won't give you a 30 BAB. The only way to raise your character level is to actually gain experience. As to the original question: Level One. Absolutely nothing requires the Cleric to devote any of his resources to healing. Just tell your group, "I'm going to make a melee combatant", and use Cleric as your class. Oops =0 I always forget cleric spells (I'm an Arcanist, always.)
RobbyPants 09-12-07, 11:57 AM	Well my clerics usually suk because I wan't to focus more on spell casting side with out losing combat potency, I usually end up sucking equally in both. :P My next priest is going to be a warpriest, however I haven't decided if I should take the prestige class as my 8th or 11th level either way I would still "have to" take 3 levels more before being a level 20 assuming my character will live that far :P So any suggestions, fill out the cleric levels first or take prestige class as soon as possible at 8th level ? Well, I guess it really depends on what you're after. If all you are really driving for is to be a warpriest, then you'll probably want to enter it as quickly as possible. If you're looking for MOAR POWER, then I'd consider a different PrC entirely. IIRC, you lose several caster levels with warpriest, and there are several PrCs in the Complete Divine that offer full casting. Really, when you look at it, cleric is a full casting class, that has the ability to wear armor while casting. You tend to end up with a nerfed character if you go into it with the mindset of being a tank that can cast some defensive magic. Still, if what you're after is a theme and/or roleplaying potential, then go for the PrC early. Just don't expect to be teh uber brokezen pwnzer.
pres_man 09-12-07, 02:44 PM	When can you get Brew Potion? There you go. "Heal me I'm hurt!" "I gave you a potion, waste your actions this round drinking it, I'm busy putting the beat down."
MogliGrimTooth 09-12-07, 09:43 PM	This may not help but.... Im our campaign everyone is responsable for thier own healing. But thier own pots and wands as such... We have an alternative/house rule that you can only swap spells out for healing spells if your primary domain is the healing domain. Otherwise you swap out for spells of you primary domain..... Stops clerics being heal bots... Has worked out real well healing has not been an issue..... MGT......
OneWinged4ngel 09-12-07, 11:31 PM	How long until a cleric can stop being the heal pony and start throwing down himself? About what level? Level 1. Quite frankly, anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually know how to play a cleric. A few examples of clerics throwing down at level 1: 1) Resources required: PHB. Cast Command. 2) Resources required: PHB. Cast Cause Fear. 3) Resources required: PHB II. Cast Blade of Blood, and your melee attacks deal +3d6 damage (and you do 5 damage to yourself). Wear the best armor you can. Charge. Take the war domain (or something similarly useful). With a mere 14 Strength, you're doing 5d6+3 damage with a +5 to your attack roll, and that's before you add in any buffs or anything. In fact, this is just the beginning of the level 1 melee cleric's potential. With a masterwork weapon (or casting Magic Weapon or Guidance before a fight), that bonus rises to +6. With Law Devotion, you can get another +3 once a day (or more by expending turn checks). With Divine Might, you can add Charisma to damage by expending turns. With a potion of Enlarge Person, you get a more damaging weapon, reach, and so forth. With Powerful Charge, you add a coupla d6s to your damage when charging. With Rapid Assault, you get extra damage on the first round of combat. The list goes on and on. These are just a few of many, many options. My clerics always start usin' scrolls to cover healing at level 1, because their spell slots are busy making them awesome. Again, if anyone tells you anything other than "Level 1" then they don't know how to play a cleric well. That's all there is to it. I totally agree with you, yet at low levels (1st or 2nd), where everyone has under 20 hp (yet CR 1/2 orc warriors hit for an average of 10 hp) and wands or potions of cure light wounds are too expensive to be bought, you'll need all the healing a cleric can give if he's the only healer in the party. I've never found this to be true, even with 4 encounters per day at a CR higher than my level with enemies using intelligent tactics. Buy or scribe some scrolls of Lesser Vigor to heal up between battles (they cost next to nothing, and even a level 1 character can get a load of them.) Use your awesome combat abilities to make it so that you rarely have to use those scrolls anyways. Done and done. No need to be a healbot as a cleric. Ever.