Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shifting Master 05-01-04, 08:23 AM	So...I've been DMing for almost 2 years now, and I've recently given up my seat for a new DM to try it out. There are no problems with him, he's a great DM. However, one of my fellow PCs took the swashbuckler class in CW and designed his character to be a carbon coby of Jack Sparrow (drunk, swaggering, etc.). He continues to make "escape artist" check in places where a, it isn't necessary and b, it isn't possible (i.e. jumping through a window when the door is wide open). The thing that makes me the angriest is that the other PCs don't seem to mind. In fact, neither does the DM as far as I know. If I were DM, I would have just told him to cut it out. However, I am a PC now, and I can't just tell himto make a new character because its disrupting the session. I've tried dropping hints to the DM IRL but he isn't picking them up. This PC is ruining the fun for me. So what do I do?
Wizard 05-01-04, 08:28 AM	Well...he isn't actually doing anything wrong, but if it annoys you, and it would annoy your character (or put him off, or whatever), then you can RP that: "I'm not going around with anyone this crazy!" But IRL, give up. You have no hope there, probably.
Shifting Master 05-01-04, 08:36 AM	Forgot to add: My character is a CG Gnome cleric of Raconteur, the local gnome god of stories. The other characters are: CN half-orc fighter: No apparant problems with Jack Sparrow LE half-elf marshal (we have an understanding that we'll hate each other in game, interesting RP opportunity): He might be the only player who dislikes this behavior as well. Ingame, his character and Jack will clash almost as much as ours will. CN halfling rogue: Again, no apparant problems with Jack.
Gahidra 05-01-04, 12:50 PM	Alright, why does this bother you so much? Is he abusing the rules in a way that gives him more power? Is he ruining your attempts at stealth? Do you just hate Jack Sparrow or clone characters? It seems like you have a problem with this IRL, but I don't understand why... So his character's a little flashy, what's the big deal? It's hard to help you if you don't offer a better explanation of the problem. :confused:
Doc225 05-01-04, 04:59 PM	You're having trouble dealing with a flamboyant swashbuckler, but not a LE Marshal? So his guy is crazy, just explain to him that escape artist isn't "diving out a window," it's wriggling free of bonds. The LE marshal should have LOADS of problems with this guy, as he is a: extremely caotic, doing random things in innapropriate situations, and B: calling unneccessary attention to the party, which no smart evil character would ever want. Your gnome, however, would probably find this person ammusing. he's chaotic (which fits part of you alignment) and is always giving opportunity for a funny story, which is what your character is all about, telling a good story. Seems to me that the problem shouldn't be his random flamboyance, but his misunderstanding of the rules. If he wants to dive out a window, instead of using the door.. let him, eventually he will run into some shady characters in the alley he dives into that don't want any witnesses around. Explain to him however that escape artist is making rolls to free yourself from bonds, not removing yourself from an open and otherwise unbinding room. Just my opinion.... i could be wrong..... It happens all the time.
Shifting Master 05-01-04, 06:06 PM	Originally posted by Doc225 You're having trouble dealing with a flamboyant swashbuckler, but not a LE Marshal? IRL, I have the problems with Jack, and in-character, I have problems with the marshal. So his guy is crazy, just explain to him that escape artist isn't "diving out a window," it's wriggling free of bonds. He doesn't care. Jack Sparrow knows he's being stupid, and I seem to be the only person who doesn't think its funny after the first time. The LE marshal should have LOADS of problems with this guy, as he is a: extremely caotic, doing random things in innapropriate situations, and B: calling unneccessary attention to the party, which no smart evil character would ever want. The marshal isn't exactly our best roleplayer. I think he's LE to have an excuse to kill stuff, even though the new DM specifically said that LE is "plotting or organized crime" as opposed to CE, which he calls "blind slaughter." This isn't exactly correct, but the marshal isn't anywhere near this. Your gnome, however, would probably find this person ammusing. he's chaotic (which fits part of you alignment) and is always giving opportunity for a funny story, which is what your character is all about, telling a good story. That's what annoys me the most. In-game, I have to be amused. However, I'll probably make the character begin slowly irritating me over time, and then let my RAGE flash out! :behold: Seems to me that the problem shouldn't be his random flamboyance, but his misunderstanding of the rules. If he wants to dive out a window, instead of using the door.. let him, eventually he will run into some shady characters in the alley he dives into that don't want any witnesses around. Explain to him however that escape artist is making rolls to free yourself from bonds, not removing yourself from an open and otherwise unbinding room. As I've said before, it is pretty clear that Jack Sparrow knows that he's being stupid. And, being a new DM, our new DM probably wouldn't do this.
Gahidra 05-01-04, 06:15 PM	So you have problems with the PLAYER of the Jack Sparrow clone, and you're looking to lash out against his CHARACTER? That hardly seems justified, although it explains why you haven't said what bothers you about his antics... I would suggest that you find a way to get over you personal differences as PLAYERS if possible, rather than let it lead to a conflict between the CHARACTERS. Just my two cents....
Vanigo 05-01-04, 06:40 PM	So, is your problem that he isn't taking the game seriously? Or do you just have a low tolerance for stupid? Or something else?
striderII 05-01-04, 07:01 PM	Sounds to me as if it's not just that the player has made an apparent copy of Jack Sparrow, but that he's playing him *poorly* - does that about hit the nail on the head? This player should watch that movie again. And again. And again. He should repeat this until either A) He understands that the character Jack Sparrow is not a moron, nor does he do things like jumping out windows when doors are available, oor B) his brain will turn to mush, and he will be unable to do much but sit in his own drool. Either way, problem solved. Point being - the character is done poorly. The movie Jack Sparrow was not so much crazy (and prone to nonsensical antics) so much as, well....."touched", for lack of a better word. Sure, he was a bit eerie, but by no means were his mental faculties deficient. Jack was a very cunning individual (remember, he played Barbosa and Will both for fools, more than once, and pocketed one of the pieces of gold for his own purposes - *not* the actions of a criminally stupid person). Now...I'm leaving the whole LE character issue alone, as this thread is supposed to be about the problems with the Jack Sparrow clone. There really is only one way to remedy this. Talk to the DM, honestly, about your concerns. Make sure before you do that you know exactly *why* the character/player annoys you so much. Also, attempt to come up with alternatives/compromises for the situation - nobody wants to be told "dude, your character sucks, make a new one". If even that fails, you may wish to consider a lobotomy. That way, you won't notice how poorly the others are playing... :) strider
elf killer 32 05-01-04, 08:56 PM	From everything you've said, this guy really hasn't done anything wrong. If the DM made him make a new character just because he was acting *stupid* that would be crossing the line. Role playing is about being something different, and allthough we have to be considerate to everyone when we do, it appears that what he is doing really isn't effecting your character in any way other than annoying you due to his style. Still if it really bothers yoou that much, talk to him to just tone the heroics down a tad.
Shifting Master 05-02-04, 01:28 PM	Talked to the rogue today. Turns out that he is as annoyed by Jack Sparrow as I am, and implied that everyone else was, too. His exact words: "The joking around with the rum was funny the first time, but it got really old really fast. He (referring to the PC playing Jack) needs to stop being stupid." I just think that the character doesn't clash well with my particular preferences of characters to work with (and, for that matter, the rogue's). To strider: You're right. The PC is playing his admitted replica of Jack poorly. Either that or he just wants to use the "drunken pirate" aspect of Jack Sparrow, which is stupid and immature IMHO. He is obviously (as far as I can see) using a weak and stupid character concept to be "funny" (a.k.a. stupid), and it makes me angry.
DevilKiller 05-02-04, 03:47 PM	Psychoanalyzing the reasons you dislike this character seems kind of interesting, but I'll try to give you some advice instead. Maybe some of it will even be helpful. Different people have different playing styles. Most of my characters have ridiculous aspects, but the groups I play with seem amused by my antics. The only real way I have of judging this is by gauging their reactions though. If I do stuff and people laugh I naturally assume they must find it funny in some way. If your group is laughing Jack's player has little choice but to assume that you find his antics funny. If the guy is being funny but people wish he would stop you might want to explain that while he's a funny guy he's holding up the game and you're there to play, not for comedy hour. If he's not funny what you say might depend on how well you like the player, but I'd think the essential thrust of the message would be the same. I think it actually might be best for the player to switch characters if his current PC doesn't fit the tone of your campaign. Rather than walking around miserable because he can't play his character the way he wants he could just take on a more serious character.
striderII 05-02-04, 06:01 PM	To strider: You're right. The PC is playing his admitted replica of Jack poorly. Either that or he just wants to use the "drunken pirate" aspect of Jack Sparrow, which is stupid and immature IMHO. He is obviously (as far as I can see) using a weak and stupid character concept to be "funny" (a.k.a. stupid), and it makes me angry. Well, here's how I see it. There is nothing wrong playing a character who is *based* on a character from a book/movie/whatever, so long as two things are kept in mind: 1. This is not the same character. Don't make a character that is how you envision the character from the movie or whatever to be according to the rules. Not only will you be wrong, but you'll suck out the enjoyment from everyone else. 2. If you are making a character that is *based* on a movie character, etc. don't base him on something blatantly annoying. I, in fact, have made a character that is loosely based on Jack Sparrow. I am playing the character in a Mage: the Ascension LARP (for those of you who know and might care, he's a Dreamspeaker). I took Jack's walk, his odd motions (fitting in with the "eerie spirit mage" persona that fits with the Dreamspeakers), and some few of his words (I've used "savvy" a few times, and have even used the quote "But where's the demon gone?" as a bit of a parody of the "But where's the rum gone?" quote from the movie). The difference? My character has elements to him that distance him from Jack - I only took the parts of the Jack Sparrow character that fit and discarded the rest. I'm not terribly manipulative, although he is a bit light-fingered (although his larceny stems from a desire to showcase everyone else's reliance on material things rather than a desire for such items himself). Only parts of the character are taken. Again, talk to the DM. That's really the best way to handle this. Let us know what goes on! strider
elf killer 32 05-03-04, 10:19 PM	Shifting Master, I don't want to start a flame war, but it appears you are acting really immature. To go behind another players back and gossip about them is completly uncool, especially when you haven't made any efforts to talk to the player in question. I suggest you stop your current course of action and confront Jack directly. I'de bet you any money that he'll tone his character down if you just asked him to. If you continue plotting behind his back though, only hurtful consequence can result. It does not appear you are friends with Jack, but even aquaintances should pay each other common courtesy.
Shifting Master 05-04-04, 03:19 PM	No offense taken, elf killer. With all of the members of the group still below grade 12 (including me), it's hard not to gossip, especially if you are better friends with some players than with others. I wasn't planning behind his back to do anything to him(actually, my players, when they played under me, did that once to me, and I wouldn't do it to someone else because I felt so rejected afterward), but I do plan to talk to the player who is playing the Jack remake and tell him to stop. Lots of backstabbing at my age, and I don't plan on being the one with the bloody dagger (metaphorically, of course ;))
Prachett 05-04-04, 03:41 PM	I think someone else hit it on the head. If the only feedback this guy is getting is at worst, laughing or at best, quiet acquiescence, he doesn't know to stop. I would say in an exasperated voice, "Dude! Enough jumping out the window - we get it!" Then laugh a little to break the sure to follow tension. Then maybe the other guys will join in to and back you up. Obviously, you'll have to guage whether this tactic will start a war or fight between you two. OTOH, I do find the idea of a Jack Sparrowish clone that jumps out of windows for no good reason funny if used in moderation. (perhaps drunken master type template?) I might even steal the idea.
elf killer 32 05-04-04, 09:04 PM	Well its good that your planning to talk to him. Other than that I have nothing to say. By the way, what ever gave you the impresstion that I wasn't under grade 12 to?
Shifting Master 05-05-04, 03:12 PM	Very true, elf killer. Anyway, I talked to the DM (big step, I know ;)) and he has no problem with the player playing Jack the way he is :confused: (though he didn't exactly support it either), but he didn't mind if I said anything to the player of Jack. So I'll definitely say something at the next session (which STILL hasn't come around), if not just Pratchett's suggestion (great idea, btw). I'll probably start with that, and if he keeps doing it, I'll be more serious.
tasslehoff220 05-05-04, 04:05 PM	Personally I love when PC's do stuff like that at least if its in character and makes sense. In this case the only problem I would have is that he is using escape artist where I think he should be using tumble. One of my favorites things a pc has ever done in one of my sessions was when he was on the second floor of a house he crowbared open the window, used his rope and grapple to swing down back in through the door one of the oc's had opened landed in a roll and came up behind the devil that was in the main foyer for a sneak attack. Seems a bit superfluous because of all the different rolls he had to make and how long it took but it was very cinematic and cool and thats great in a D&D game. Another of my favorites was when the dwarven fighter took a charging jump over the chasm rather than taking the long way around to get to the imp and threatening the small child on the other side. He risked falling into the chasm (instant death considering he was at first level) but in the end rolled 2 natural 20's one for the jump and the other to hit the thing. Very cinematic again. I love when PC's as a player or DM do stuff like that. If you find it abnoxious think of it as adding extra flavor to the game and how exciting the combats can be because of things like that. Try it yourself, it can be alot of fun.
Tony Vargas 05-05-04, 04:12 PM	Some players do take games more or less seriously than others - and some games or meant to be taken more or less seriously than others. If the DM doesn't have a problem with the silly character, maybe this isn't meant to be a serious game. You can still play a serious character, but you might find the role of 'straight man' tiresome. Even if the character is sillier than the game really calls for, well, he can still be played that way, there are just likely to be consequences. In either case, I'd say just react apropriately in-character. If you all run out a door, and he leaps through the window, just spare him a quick "wow, you're stupid" glance, and move on. If he gets himself into a life-threatening situation through sheer stupidity for the /nth/ time, don't try to bail him out or get him ressurected...