Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Banatine 04-20-07, 05:03 PM	At the moment i have hit a crossroads in my campaign. First i need to set the scene a little. One of our party members who was transformed into a demon (don't ask) was summone by an evil court magician to kill the king and the entire royal family, and the demon said he would do it and that the party would help. My character (being lawful), and knowing that the king was a good man, said that it was absolutely out of the question that i would help. 2 minuted later, me, our minotaur (again, don't ask), our demon, and our warlock head off. What my character has planned is to inform the town guard of the plot, warning them about the capabilities of the party, and saying that the court magician called us. However, if the players find out i did it, they will probably be really angry with me. I don't want to cause a lot of friction, but i can't play my character against his alignment and his beleifs. So the ultimate question is, what should i do?
darkneolink 04-20-07, 05:30 PM	well lets go first with the standard answer talk to your Dm and your party members. So you tell them what do you think and how your character would react. Tell them that you are not doing it because you want to mess up with their plans but because you want to Role play your character as he should be role played If it doesn't work violence is always teh answer n_n
Banatine 04-20-07, 05:54 PM	At the moment, i have spoken to the DM, but i told him i don't want to tell the players. I was kind of hoping they wouldn't find out that i ruined the plan unless i was the one to tell them. The way our players work is that if they knew i was planning to warn the guard out of character, they would do something about it in character. I've been thinking this could turn out for the best, because if the guard find out that the court magician was the header of the plot, and that the rest of the party had no choice but to obey him, they may spare them and the king will give us a reward for showing him that he has a traitor in his midst.
Candin 04-20-07, 08:07 PM	I don't think whether you're lawful or not plays into it so much as whether you're evil or not. If you're good, you'll probably inform the guards of the plot. Unless the king is an evil person (which you intimated that he wasn't). If this guy was a despot, you would probably try to have him removed, but not by murder. Neutral? Piece of cake. Wash your hands of it, tell the party that you won't have anything to do with them while they do it and have your character sit out for the spectacle. Evil? You'd probably lead the charge.
Saberus 04-20-07, 08:27 PM	Plans A, B, D & E, part one Inform the guards, then convince your party to rest up at the inn for the night, pay for the rooms if you have to. Plan A, part two Go out for some 'air' that evening, then go back to the guards and have them take you to the King, explain to him the situation. Plan B, part two Sneak out that evening, take your stuff, and go back to the guards and have them take you to the Magician, buff like hell, and take him on single handedly. then explain the treachery to the King, and plead with him to spare your friends when they arrive. Plan C Run like hell! Plan D, part two Tell the DM you're not going to stand for this, go to the local tavern, gather a party of NPCs, and stand against your former allies, begging for them to re-consider. Plan E, part two (Evil only) Slit their throats in their sleep, and then go complete the quest, keeping the whole reward for yourself
Mysteria 04-21-07, 03:56 AM	I'm wondering: How are you going to convince the king that his court magician wants him dead?
DarkRhystar 04-21-07, 04:04 AM	My character (being lawful), and knowing that the king was a good man, said that it was absolutely out of the question that i would help. Lawful alignment doesn't matter diddly in this scenario. Being lawful doesn't mean you follow laws... at all. I don't want to cause a lot of friction, but i can't play my character against his alignment and his beleifs. So the ultimate question is, what should i do? Inform the guard. Play your character. That's the whole point of the game. I'm wondering: How are you going to convince the king that his court magician wants him dead? Depends on the king. Royalty makes lots and lots of enemies if by only being royalty. Any King or Queen that has had the title long enough should know to take all accusations seriously and investigate them.
Banatine 04-21-07, 09:01 AM	I'm wondering: How are you going to convince the king that his court magician wants him dead? that's easy enough with the use of a discern lies spell to tell that i'm telling the truth. I also like Saberus' plan. oh well, i have until thursday to think about it.
DyloniusFunk 04-21-07, 08:45 PM	I'm wondering: How are you going to convince the king that his court magician wants him dead? that's easy enough with the use of a discern lies spell to tell that i'm telling the truth. I also like Saberus' plan. oh well, i have until thursday to think about it. So the OP, whose character presumably is a total stranger to the king and the people at the palace, strolls up to the palace and tells the guards "Hey guys. Hate to tell ya this but i found out a friend of mine who's a demon was summoned by the kings court magacin and order to kill him adn the entire royal famly. But it's all cool if you just let me in i can cast discern lies on him and we can get this whole matter settled" Good luck, hope that works out real well.
DarkRhystar 04-22-07, 01:59 AM	So the OP, whose character presumably is a total stranger to the king and the people at the palace, strolls up to the palace and tells the guards "Hey guys. Hate to tell ya this but i found out a friend of mine who's a demon was summoned by the kings court magacin and order to kill him adn the entire royal famly. But it's all cool if you just let me in i can cast discern lies on him and we can get this whole matter settled" Good luck, hope that works out real well. No, I think he meant that the king's people cast Discern Lies on the PC and learn that the PC is telling the truth.
Shadowhowler 04-22-07, 04:15 AM	Hm... If you are playing a character who goals and values are castly at odds with the others in your party, I'd suggest you make a new character. Groups should try to have characters that are of similar bends, otherwise you run into inter-party conflict... which, for highly advanced players can be fun, but for most is NOT a good time. Also, you said your character would use player knowledge to screw your character in game... thats a big no no. If your playing with players that can not seperate in game/out of game... your going to have problems, and you might wanna consider a new group.
Banatine 04-22-07, 10:52 AM	Hm... If you are playing a character who goals and values are castly at odds with the others in your party, I'd suggest you make a new character. Groups should try to have characters that are of similar bends, otherwise you run into inter-party conflict... which, for highly advanced players can be fun, but for most is NOT a good time. Also, you said your character would use player knowledge to screw your character in game... thats a big no no. If your playing with players that can not seperate in game/out of game... your going to have problems, and you might wanna consider a new group. I'm not sure that we are at odds. It's just that i don't think any other characters care about alignment. All they seem to think is 'we've been given a quest, so let's do it'. they don't have any 'would i want to do it?' or 'do i agree with this?'. Normally the group are quite good. The only reason i am in this situation is because the rest of the party wanted to help the demon, and i didn't want to sit there doing nothing for the next few weeks. My character has his own quest to be taking care of, but he would never be able to complete it on his own either (i have to search for scales in a few dragon graveyards). i just don't like the groups current characters. there's the demon (who i dislike for this quest), the minotaur monk (because his character has vow of poverty and is an *******), and a warlock (who i don't mind, but i dont trust dark magic).
DyloniusFunk 04-22-07, 11:46 AM	No, I think he meant that the king's people cast Discern Lies on the PC and learn that the PC is telling the truth. That still requires getting in to see the King and convince him to cast a spell on his adviser, who most likely is a trusted ally and/or friend of the king. Having some no nothing adventurer come off the street and tell him his adviser is a traitor will be a hard sell. And any good usurper will most likely have friends and allies on the palace staff. Honey over vinegar and all that. Most likely he would know that the PC is on to him and make plans to eliminate this threat to his plan. No matter how it goes down it's gonna be tough to walk in and convince the king to bring his wizard to him and have him stand there under a spell while he's questioned about being involved with something like assassination.
Banatine 04-22-07, 12:09 PM	That still requires getting in to see the King and convince him to cast a spell on his adviser, who most likely is a trusted ally and/or friend of the king. Having some no nothing adventurer come off the street and tell him his adviser is a traitor will be a hard sell. And any good usurper will most likely have friends and allies on the palace staff. Honey over vinegar and all that. Most likely he would know that the PC is on to him and make plans to eliminate this threat to his plan. No matter how it goes down it's gonna be tough to walk in and convince the king to bring his wizard to him and have him stand there under a spell while he's questioned about being involved with something like assassination. You still seem to be misunderstanding the situation. If Discern Lies is cast in me, they will know i'm telling the truth when i tell them that the king's wizards is trying to have him killed, so the wizard will not be involved at all. Even better, they could use a zone of truth so that it would be impossible for me to lie. Then the wizard would be exposed for the traitor he is without my, or the party, getting their hands dirty.
Shadowhowler 04-22-07, 07:03 PM	I'm not sure that we are at odds. It's just that i don't think any other characters care about alignment. All they seem to think is 'we've been given a quest, so let's do it'. they don't have any 'would i want to do it?' or 'do i agree with this?'. Normally the group are quite good. The only reason i am in this situation is because the rest of the party wanted to help the demon, and i didn't want to sit there doing nothing for the next few weeks. My character has his own quest to be taking care of, but he would never be able to complete it on his own either (i have to search for scales in a few dragon graveyards). i just don't like the groups current characters. there's the demon (who i dislike for this quest), the minotaur monk (because his character has vow of poverty and is an *******), and a warlock (who i don't mind, but i dont trust dark magic). Ok.... yikes. I want very badly to avoid making sterotype influenced conclussions about the guys you are playing with... but, to be honest, I'm having a hard time. 1. Is the Demon an actual PC in the group? 2. If not, WHY does the group accept a 'quest' from the demon to go Murder a king? Do they not know he is a demon, did the demon tell them a really good story and use charm/suggestion out the a$$ on them to convice them? Or do they just not care that he is a DEMON, and he wants them to go MURDER someone for him. If its the later, and they are not evil bastereds, then yeah, they are being jacka$$es and totaly ignore the concept of alignment. 3. Between the Minotar Monk with VoP and how most people tend to play Warlocks, I'd say you are in the wrong party my man. This sounds like a bad, bad group. Like... I smell some Bree, maybe Limburger, even threw my computer. I dunno what to tell you... without know the history of your group, both the in and out of game history, I can't say much more. I can say everything you have told me thus far raises a lot of my warning signs, and I suspect I would either NOT play with this group... or make the kinda character that would play with with such an insane group. Something with very little morals and little regard for rules, and probably something whacking, something I would never try to play in a serious game but that I'd been currious to try out...
Banatine 04-23-07, 07:47 AM	The demon is a PC in our party, but she isnt a proper demon. She was made a demon by dringinc some kind of corrupted water. She has to pass a will save whenever someone tries to summona demon and if she fails she is summoned and kind of has to obay the orders she is given. Therefor, the party help her because all they see it as is another quest that we have been given by the DM. The warlock isn't a bad character. I get annoyed with him because whenever any kind of cobbat starts, he becomes invisible and climbs onto the ceiling (those are his exact words every time). The minotaur i just dislike. I'm not sure why, but i may be something to do with the rampage he went on through the last town we travelled through. mainly because the party has very little money, and certainly not as much as the expected wealth for 9th lvl. (we had to pay 1,500 gp in bail for him. The party has about 5,000 gp in total between each character, and none of that came from my share because i thought he was totally reckless. Also when he was released he decided to mutter dark speech (?) all around the prison, beacuse i think he said it would make the building collapse later.)
hiryuu 04-23-07, 02:23 PM	Wait, hold on, the minotaur has Vow of Poverty? You know in order to have that feat you've got to be so full of goodness and light you make a paladin look like a guy wearing a trenchcoat "watching" the kids at a playground, right? What is he doing going along with a murder of the king and his family?
Banatine 04-25-07, 07:51 AM	Wait, hold on, the minotaur has Vow of Poverty? You know in order to have that feat you've got to be so full of goodness and light you make a paladin look like a guy wearing a trenchcoat "watching" the kids at a playground, right? What is he doing going along with a murder of the king and his family? I know that, but i don't think he does. Also how does it work that he has vile feats (i assume dark speech is a vile feat) too? They are diametrically opposed. (they are also reason why his character is an arsehole, but the player isnt. His last character was a shodowcaster, who was quite likeable despite looking like the evilest man alive)
DyloniusFunk 04-25-07, 12:08 PM	You still seem to be misunderstanding the situation. If Discern Lies is cast in me, they will know i'm telling the truth when i tell them that the king's wizards is trying to have him killed, so the wizard will not be involved at all. Even better, they could use a zone of truth so that it would be impossible for me to lie. Then the wizard would be exposed for the traitor he is without my, or the party, getting their hands dirty. Fair enough. Doesn't mean the PC will actually get to the King. Any guy who's planing to usurp rulership and has more than a 8 Int will have done his legwork. The magician will likely have allies in the palace staff, in the guards, peoples he's bribed, threatened, promised power and position to. Maybe he has contacts in the military who let him know whats going on. Of course the PC don't know this, but when they go to the king, the magician should know about it and have plans ready to go into action against them.
kelvinaw273 04-25-07, 12:11 PM	Kill the court magician. Once the other players find out he's dead, they have no quest. Once the king's guard catch up with you for doing this, you can do the discern lies but without worry, as the one guy who could mess it up for you is dead. Collect reward from king, leave.
DyloniusFunk 04-25-07, 01:07 PM	Kill the court magician. Once the other players find out he's dead, they have no quest. Once the king's guard catch up with you for doing this, you can do the discern lies but without worry, as the one guy who could mess it up for you is dead. Collect reward from king, leave. That still leaves the trouble of geting to the magician and not having your plasn allready ratted out by agents/scrying/etc
Shadowhowler 04-25-07, 11:57 PM	I know that, but i don't think he does. Also how does it work that he has vile feats (i assume dark speech is a vile feat) too? They are diametrically opposed. (they are also reason why his character is an arsehole, but the player isnt. His last character was a shodowcaster, who was quite likeable despite looking like the evilest man alive) Yikes. I have not read the book of Vile darkness, so I don't know if there is an 'evil' version of the vow of poverty, although I'd find it hard to figure the reasoning behind such a thing. If there isn't, just sounds like he decided to make one, cuz yeah, Dark Speach is very very bad... I must reiterate my previous statment... sounds like a WHACKED out game with some really CHESSY characters... excape it if you can. If you don't wanna ditch it, then your going to have to acept that the other playings in this game are currently playing a insane, silly, if it moves kill it and who gives a crap sorta game with over the top loppy characters, and nothing you do will change that.
kelvinaw273 04-26-07, 04:23 AM	That still leaves the trouble of geting to the magician and not having your plasn allready ratted out by agents/scrying/etc Details, details ... <sigh> 'join' the other two, then say you need more information and volunteer to go get if off the Magician. When you get him alone, attempt "Power Word: Chutney" on him.
Banatine 04-28-07, 04:18 PM	*sigh* I've just ralised that my party is stupider than I thought. When we were on the way to the palace, I suggested that we kill the magician instead of the king, and they said 'that's stupid, because what if he's more powerful than us? killing the king and his wife and children makes much more sense because we wont die that way.' :eek: :confused: It was only then i realised that i was a good character among an evil party. Now I actually want to see their characters die.
draco1119 04-29-07, 02:51 AM	When we were on the way to the palace, I suggested that we kill the magician instead of the king, and they said 'that's stupid, because what if he's more powerful than us? killing the king and his wife and children makes much more sense because we wont die that way.' :eek: :confused: :rofl: They've obviously never been to Silverymoon. The Royal Magician MAY be the best spell-slinger, but the King likely is a heck of a warrior, and possibly a spellcaster himself. I'd put my money on the king. :)
Shadowhowler 04-29-07, 10:40 PM	It was only then i realised that i was a good character among an evil party. Now I actually want to see their characters die. Thats what I was trying to tell ya... Get out. Get out now. ;)
Banatine 04-30-07, 04:20 AM	I can't get out, because there are no other 3rd edition groups at the club. And I would rather play nothing at all than 2nd ed. (so many tables...:tantrum:). Also, even though i am irritated currently, these are the best players, the best DM, and the best game i have ever played. Also, they aren't a bad group to play with. This is the only during this quest that i have found myself at odds with them. It turns out that our DM doesn't use alignments, but declares all PC's as neutral, but they can act as they please. (How he works is when you want to use rules he has never seen, you show them to him, he breifly skims through them, and says ok.)
draco1119 04-30-07, 07:14 AM	Kill them. Kill them all.