Con-base Chars [Archive] - Wizards Community

Con-base Chars [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
allenchan
05-27-04, 09:01 PM Are there any Constitution-based classes that give you any special abilities, etc? Im looking to run a Con-based character, but constitution alsways eems to be secondary. Is that because it provides HP, too, and they wouldnt want it to be over-powered?
Nom
05-27-04, 09:50 PM Not sure what you mean by "Con-based classes that give you special abilities". The barbarian Rage ability applies equally to Str and Con, some Ranger feats apply to Con based abilities (eg Endurance), and Fighters may take some Con-based feats as bonus feats.

If you're talking about the value of Con, then yes, it's considered secondary to Str and Dex. This is most easily seen by the table in the DMG (in the section on Characters) that suggests that a +2 racial to Str or Dex needs a -2 to Str, Dex or Con or -2 to two of Int, Wis or Cha to balance, while a +2 to Con (or Int or Wis or Cha) only needs a -2 to any stat.

Str: primary ability score for melee combat, carrying capacity bonus for everybody
Dex: primary ability score for missile combat, valuable for everybody (AC and Ref)
Con: valuable for everybody (due to HP boost and Fort)
Int: primary ability score for Wizards, useful for everybody (skill points)
Wis: primary ability score for Divine casters, useful for everybody (Will)
Cha: primary ability score for Src/Brd, may provide socialisation benefits depending on DM

Excluding specific needs, the scores can be relatively easily ranked in mechanical value: Dex, Con/Str, Int/Wis, Cha. However, Con cannot be used to power-up a character as easily as Str can (in general, defensive is weaker than offensive; a 20 Str is much more devastating than a 20 Con), so it is not ranked quite as highly in racial penalties.

I'm not sure whether that answers your question?
allenchan
05-27-04, 10:19 PM I was wondering if there were any classes that utilize con to grant spells or spell-like abilities etc, instead of int or wis or cha, etc.
CrimsonRyoko
05-27-04, 10:54 PM All spellcasting is based off of the mental stats, all phsyical fighting is well, based off of the physical stats.

There are a few exceptions to the rule, some, allbeit few, some PrC's grant mental stats the ability to effect physical combat.

But no, there is no class that grants spellcasting from con, thats actually pretty opposite of DnD, the more spellcasting and damage from spells the less HP/con.
MonkeyPaladin
05-27-04, 11:15 PM I would rate Con as the single most useful stat. A high strength or dex gives you one bonus, but a high Con keeps getting better as you go up in level, and if you pop points into it's retroactive. Heavily armored guys don't need much dex and non-melee guys can dump strength, but everyone needs a high constitution. For most classes I would rate it at number 2, but in some cases if you have a 16 or higher as your second highest stat or a racial bonus to use for that main stat, I would put it at number one. No class has a con based ability because the ability score is awesome on its own.

Although if you use 3.0 psionics, you can get a Con based psion. But then the price of that is that you're playing a 3.0 psion.
Nom
05-28-04, 12:24 AM Several breath weapons and poisons use Con to determine DC. Though that's not quite the same thing.
Gandilas
05-28-04, 01:33 AM Hello.

Don't some Psionics use Con to base the save DC?
Nihilism
05-28-04, 02:31 AM Originally posted by Gandilas
Hello.

Don't some Psionics use Con to base the save DC?

Not anymore. The 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook changed this to remove MAD (multiple ability dependancy). Psion saves are based on intelligence, psychic warrior saves are based on wisdom, and wilder saves are based on charisma.
Gray Eminence
05-28-04, 09:51 AM As long as I know, in the original Psionics Handbook, there was a type of psion for each ability score. The one for constitution was, IIRC the savant. It got extra psionic points for high constitution score, just like a wizard has more spells for a high intelligence score.

But I do not know, how it was changed in the expanded book. And of course, you do not have to use the expanded book at all.
Dauntless
05-28-04, 07:37 PM Originally posted by Gray Eminence
As long as I know, in the original Psionics Handbook, there was a type of psion for each ability score. The one for constitution was, IIRC the savant. It got extra psionic points for high constitution score, just like a wizard has more spells for a high intelligence score.

But I do not know, how it was changed in the expanded book. And of course, you do not have to use the expanded book at all.

Of course for the minor issue that the original Psionics is 3.0, and sucked. :)

Honestly as another poster said, Constitution is important enough already! You get hitpoints and a saving throw based off it. Getting even more bonuses from it would be sick, considering its already a stat that everyone wants to be good at.
evoken_november
05-28-04, 07:52 PM I'm not aware of any core class with Con based special abilities.... other than the special ability of being able to eat damage for breakfast and keep on going.

A Dwarf Cleric who starts with 20 Con at level 1 is nothing to look down on... even if you are 2 feet taller. ;)
Mr.Black
05-29-04, 12:58 AM The stonelord in the Complete Warrior has abilities that have DCs based on con. It's a dwarf only class.
ninjarabbit
05-30-04, 08:24 AM I say be a dwarf fighter/barbarain with a con 20, put all your level up points in con, take toughness and all it's variants (fighter levels are for extra feats for those toughness feats) and be the ultimate bad dude.
The Master Weaver Is Warped
05-31-04, 11:45 AM This is a class I created that is CON dependant.
The Collector (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151065) It is an odd caster varient, and has not been play tested yet. Check with your DM first.
Stuntman
05-31-04, 02:56 PM Originally posted by ninjarabbit
I say be a dwarf fighter/barbarain with a con 20, put all your level up points in con, take toughness and all it's variants (fighter levels are for extra feats for those toughness feats) and be the ultimate bad dude.

A fighter cannot choose Toughness as one of the fighter's bonus feats. You have to use your regular feats to select it.

What you can do is select Improved Toughness from CW. Not sure if you can take it as a fighter bonus feat, but in any case, Improved Toughness is roughly equivalent to taking Toughness every 3 levels. You can still take Toughness every three levels to boost your HP even more.

Also, if you allow the 3.0 MotW, there are other Toughness feats that give you more than 3 hp. I think they are called Dwarf's toughness and Dragon's toughness.
Iron Chef Vastrox
05-31-04, 03:03 PM The Spellfire Wielder from Faerun/FRCS uses Constitution as its primary stat. That's entirely 3.0, however.
ninjarabbit
05-31-04, 08:07 PM D'oh!

I know you can take improved toughness as a fighter feat since I looked it up the other day, regular toughness you can't, I'm not sure about the others since I don't have MotW.

:tantrum:
amishcommando
06-01-04, 03:13 AM Well I'm currently playing a Con focused character and i can give you a few suggestions, though I really know of only two Con based prestige classes (other than the already mentioned Spellfire Weilder, there is a class called the Disciple of Dispater in the BOVD that is very powerful in the hands of a high Con character...but you need to be real evil to take the class)

As for suggestions, I've found that my con based character (essentialy a half-fiend ranger/planar champion) wasn't too strong at low levels, but can now simply outlast most creatures thrown at him......If your DM allows player to take feats out of Savage Species you should take "Roll with It" and "Pain Mastery"

Roll with it gives DR 2/- (and can be taken multiple times) and pain mastery gives you a strength boost for every 50 points of damage you take......obviously useful for high HP/high con characters
Stuntman
06-02-04, 12:10 AM Originally posted by ninjarabbit
D'oh!

I know you can take improved toughness as a fighter feat since I looked it up the other day, regular toughness you can't, I'm not sure about the others since I don't have MotW.

:tantrum:

Dwarf's Toughness, Giant's Toughness and Dragon's Toughness are available as fighter's bonus feats.
ninjarabbit
06-02-04, 07:42 PM ^

Good:drool:

One more question before I try to build the ultimate hp character, can I take those three toughness feats more than once?
allenchan
06-02-04, 08:28 PM Yes. :) Take Dragon's Toughness over and over and over... :angel:
Votan
06-02-04, 10:14 PM Originally posted by allenchan
I was wondering if there were any classes that utilize con to grant spells or spell-like abilities etc, instead of int or wis or cha, etc.

The balance on such a class would be dubious at best unless the abilities were extremely limited. Con directly improves one of the primary balancing factors for spellcasting (weaker HPs) and would lead to the most fierce battlemages imaginable.
The Master Weaver Is Warped
06-03-04, 07:31 AM Originally posted by Votan
The balance on such a class would be dubious at best unless the abilities were extremely limited. Con directly improves one of the primary balancing factors for spellcasting (weaker HPs) and would lead to the most fierce battlemages imaginable. The socerer my son plays is 20th level with total HP of 150. My rogue duelist 18/4 has 128. It's scary.
ratt182
06-04-04, 03:59 PM Man I love a good com based char.
Ive played 2. they just.... won't..... DIE!!!!
they're like the Energizer (TM) bunny. load 'em up with thoughness and u have the ultimate soaker. and yes throw sum DR on 'em and they become near unstopable.
it also leads to some really cool char concepts. u get to create a whole backstory why he got to be this tough. i had a guy that was bought by a necromancer as a child. he (and he others that wer in the purchase order wioth him) were to be test subjects but he managed to survuve. when we played he was the necomancers manservant.
Dragonspirit
06-05-04, 03:37 AM I would rate Con as the single most useful stat. A high strength or dex gives you one bonus, but a high Con keeps getting better as you go up in level

I agree on Con being the most overall important stat (who plays a character with a penalty here?) but Dex affects more than one bonus. It gives you AC, bonus to ranged attacks, Reflex Save AND initiative not to mention the skills it covers. Overall, Dex is the most multitasking stat there is!
ninjarabbit
06-05-04, 08:30 AM It depends more on the character than anything else, but at level 1 I think dex is a little better than con but as you level up con becomes better.

And I decided my hp monster is going to be a dwarf barbarian2/fighter18 takin the various toughness feats and extra rage once or twice.
OrionGemini
06-05-04, 09:07 AM Originally posted by allenchan
I was wondering if there were any classes that utilize con to grant spells or spell-like abilities etc, instead of int or wis or cha, etc.

*casts protection from backlash before posting*

OK, some people don't like the Quintessential ___ books from Mongoose Publishing, but here's a possibility from The Quintessential Elf. There's a feat called "High Magic" which allows Elves to use the inherent magic in their blood to boost their spells. In game terms, instead of using higher spell slots for metamagic feats, you take a point of temporary CON damage for each level you increase the spell.

Not a big deal, but it's the only way, so far, that I've seen Con used in spellcasting.
ninjarabbit
06-05-04, 02:42 PM I've changed my mind on my build, I need to get to a base fortitude save of 11 as soon as possible, any ideas?
starfire311
06-07-04, 05:56 PM without prestige classes

to get base fort of +11 as soon as possible I would go Barb 2/Fighter 6/Ranger2

With
Barb 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Frenzied Berserker 1.... I think this works not sure about the pre-reqs for the Berserker
ninjarabbit
06-07-04, 09:11 PM The fastest I figured without prc's is barbarain2/fighter1/cleric2/ranger2 or any similar combination, 7 levels, so here's my 1.0 build without prc's

28 pt build, dwarf- str14 , dex10 , con20, int8 ,wis12, cha6

1-barb1: improved toughness
2-barb2
3-cleric1: extra rage
4-ranger1: +1 con
5-ranger2: two weapon fighting
6-cleric2: extra rage
7-fighter1: dragon's toughness
8-fighter2:dragon's toughness, +1 con
9-fighter3: dragon's toughness
10-fighter4:dragon's toughness
11-fighter5
12-fighter6:dragon's toughness x2, +1 con
13-fighter7
14-fighter8:dragon's toughness
15-fighter9: dragon's toughness
16-figher10: dragon's toughness, +1 con
17-fighter11
18:fighter12: dragon's toughness x2
19:fighter13
20:fighter14: dragon's toughness, +1 con

I've taken dragon's toughness 12 times, plus improved toughness for another 20 hp, plus a 25 con + any other bonuses I might get from items, wishes, tombs, etc, I'll do the math later for hps but this guy will take a long time to kill.
Trydan
06-08-04, 03:09 AM Originally posted by ninjarabbit
4-ranger1: +1 con
5-ranger2: two weapon fightingHmm.. why two-weapon fighting? Why ranger? For a high-fortitude, high-hitpoints character, I'd have thought that high-AC would also be appropriate. Hence a tower shield or something.

7-fighter1: dragon's toughness What does dragon's toughness do? What is the reference for it?
allenchan
06-08-04, 03:11 AM I think its from S&F splat book that gives you +12 HP every time you take it
was_fired
06-08-04, 04:53 AM When going for a con based character remember wisdom is your secondary and then strength / dex. You can take hits like no other and are next to imune to anything that requires a fort save, but none of that matters if you are hit with a will save or die. Iron will is also a must have.
ninjarabbit
06-08-04, 03:51 PM The ranger levels aren't optimal, but I needed something core with a good fort save and my only other option was druid, if someone has a better idea let me know, dragon's toughness is from the Masters of the Wild splatbook, it gives 12 extra hps, can be taken multiple times, and can be taken as a fighter feat.

Anyways he's the final tally for hps ,I broke 3 slide rules doing the math.

25 con + 5 from tombs/wishes + 6 from item = 36 con (40 in rage) for 260 hps from con (13 x 20), 300 in rage

12 dragon's toughness x 12 hps = 144 hps

20 hps from improved toughness

12 hps from 1st level barbarian + average hps from leveling up, 1d12 (6) + 3d8 (12) + 14d10 (70) = 100 hps

So if my math is correct, I have 260 + 144 + 20 +100 = 524 hps for my character at level 20, I could push 600 hps with a potion of false life, rage, and a few good rolls on my level up hps.
starfire311
06-08-04, 04:34 PM now that I have thought about it the fastest way is barbarian 1/ Cleric 1/Druid 1/ Fighter 2/ Ranger 1.... This gives you +11 at 6th level or even better would be Barbarian 2/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 1 this allows you to spend all you fighter bonus feats on Dragon's Toughness starting at 6th level.

so you can get a total of 8 DT's from Fighter feats and 5 from normal feats for a total of 13 DT's

With Con 40

on average you can have
2D12(18)+3D8(14)+15D10(82)+300(Con)+20(I T)+156(DT)= 590
If you can take Giant's Toughness at 3rd level this can go to 599
ninjarabbit
06-08-04, 07:02 PM Good call starfire311, you get a cookie::cookie:
OleOneEye
06-09-04, 08:59 PM You may look at the forsaker from masters of the wild. Con bonuses for natural armor, plus 10 extra points into Con.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
allenchan 05-27-04, 09:01 PM	Are there any Constitution-based classes that give you any special abilities, etc? Im looking to run a Con-based character, but constitution alsways eems to be secondary. Is that because it provides HP, too, and they wouldnt want it to be over-powered?
Nom 05-27-04, 09:50 PM	Not sure what you mean by "Con-based classes that give you special abilities". The barbarian Rage ability applies equally to Str and Con, some Ranger feats apply to Con based abilities (eg Endurance), and Fighters may take some Con-based feats as bonus feats. If you're talking about the value of Con, then yes, it's considered secondary to Str and Dex. This is most easily seen by the table in the DMG (in the section on Characters) that suggests that a +2 racial to Str or Dex needs a -2 to Str, Dex or Con or -2 to two of Int, Wis or Cha to balance, while a +2 to Con (or Int or Wis or Cha) only needs a -2 to any stat. Str: primary ability score for melee combat, carrying capacity bonus for everybody Dex: primary ability score for missile combat, valuable for everybody (AC and Ref) Con: valuable for everybody (due to HP boost and Fort) Int: primary ability score for Wizards, useful for everybody (skill points) Wis: primary ability score for Divine casters, useful for everybody (Will) Cha: primary ability score for Src/Brd, may provide socialisation benefits depending on DM Excluding specific needs, the scores can be relatively easily ranked in mechanical value: Dex, Con/Str, Int/Wis, Cha. However, Con cannot be used to power-up a character as easily as Str can (in general, defensive is weaker than offensive; a 20 Str is much more devastating than a 20 Con), so it is not ranked quite as highly in racial penalties. I'm not sure whether that answers your question?
allenchan 05-27-04, 10:19 PM	I was wondering if there were any classes that utilize con to grant spells or spell-like abilities etc, instead of int or wis or cha, etc.
CrimsonRyoko 05-27-04, 10:54 PM	All spellcasting is based off of the mental stats, all phsyical fighting is well, based off of the physical stats. There are a few exceptions to the rule, some, allbeit few, some PrC's grant mental stats the ability to effect physical combat. But no, there is no class that grants spellcasting from con, thats actually pretty opposite of DnD, the more spellcasting and damage from spells the less HP/con.
MonkeyPaladin 05-27-04, 11:15 PM	I would rate Con as the single most useful stat. A high strength or dex gives you one bonus, but a high Con keeps getting better as you go up in level, and if you pop points into it's retroactive. Heavily armored guys don't need much dex and non-melee guys can dump strength, but everyone needs a high constitution. For most classes I would rate it at number 2, but in some cases if you have a 16 or higher as your second highest stat or a racial bonus to use for that main stat, I would put it at number one. No class has a con based ability because the ability score is awesome on its own. Although if you use 3.0 psionics, you can get a Con based psion. But then the price of that is that you're playing a 3.0 psion.
Nom 05-28-04, 12:24 AM	Several breath weapons and poisons use Con to determine DC. Though that's not quite the same thing.
Gandilas 05-28-04, 01:33 AM	Hello. Don't some Psionics use Con to base the save DC?
Nihilism 05-28-04, 02:31 AM	Originally posted by Gandilas Hello. Don't some Psionics use Con to base the save DC? Not anymore. The 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook changed this to remove MAD (multiple ability dependancy). Psion saves are based on intelligence, psychic warrior saves are based on wisdom, and wilder saves are based on charisma.
Gray Eminence 05-28-04, 09:51 AM	As long as I know, in the original Psionics Handbook, there was a type of psion for each ability score. The one for constitution was, IIRC the savant. It got extra psionic points for high constitution score, just like a wizard has more spells for a high intelligence score. But I do not know, how it was changed in the expanded book. And of course, you do not have to use the expanded book at all.
Dauntless 05-28-04, 07:37 PM	Originally posted by Gray Eminence As long as I know, in the original Psionics Handbook, there was a type of psion for each ability score. The one for constitution was, IIRC the savant. It got extra psionic points for high constitution score, just like a wizard has more spells for a high intelligence score. But I do not know, how it was changed in the expanded book. And of course, you do not have to use the expanded book at all. Of course for the minor issue that the original Psionics is 3.0, and sucked. :) Honestly as another poster said, Constitution is important enough already! You get hitpoints and a saving throw based off it. Getting even more bonuses from it would be sick, considering its already a stat that everyone wants to be good at.
evoken_november 05-28-04, 07:52 PM	I'm not aware of any core class with Con based special abilities.... other than the special ability of being able to eat damage for breakfast and keep on going. A Dwarf Cleric who starts with 20 Con at level 1 is nothing to look down on... even if you are 2 feet taller. ;)
Mr.Black 05-29-04, 12:58 AM	The stonelord in the Complete Warrior has abilities that have DCs based on con. It's a dwarf only class.
ninjarabbit 05-30-04, 08:24 AM	I say be a dwarf fighter/barbarain with a con 20, put all your level up points in con, take toughness and all it's variants (fighter levels are for extra feats for those toughness feats) and be the ultimate bad dude.
The Master Weaver Is Warped 05-31-04, 11:45 AM	This is a class I created that is CON dependant. The Collector (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151065) It is an odd caster varient, and has not been play tested yet. Check with your DM first.
Stuntman 05-31-04, 02:56 PM	Originally posted by ninjarabbit I say be a dwarf fighter/barbarain with a con 20, put all your level up points in con, take toughness and all it's variants (fighter levels are for extra feats for those toughness feats) and be the ultimate bad dude. A fighter cannot choose Toughness as one of the fighter's bonus feats. You have to use your regular feats to select it. What you can do is select Improved Toughness from CW. Not sure if you can take it as a fighter bonus feat, but in any case, Improved Toughness is roughly equivalent to taking Toughness every 3 levels. You can still take Toughness every three levels to boost your HP even more. Also, if you allow the 3.0 MotW, there are other Toughness feats that give you more than 3 hp. I think they are called Dwarf's toughness and Dragon's toughness.
Iron Chef Vastrox 05-31-04, 03:03 PM	The Spellfire Wielder from Faerun/FRCS uses Constitution as its primary stat. That's entirely 3.0, however.
ninjarabbit 05-31-04, 08:07 PM	D'oh! I know you can take improved toughness as a fighter feat since I looked it up the other day, regular toughness you can't, I'm not sure about the others since I don't have MotW. :tantrum:
amishcommando 06-01-04, 03:13 AM	Well I'm currently playing a Con focused character and i can give you a few suggestions, though I really know of only two Con based prestige classes (other than the already mentioned Spellfire Weilder, there is a class called the Disciple of Dispater in the BOVD that is very powerful in the hands of a high Con character...but you need to be real evil to take the class) As for suggestions, I've found that my con based character (essentialy a half-fiend ranger/planar champion) wasn't too strong at low levels, but can now simply outlast most creatures thrown at him......If your DM allows player to take feats out of Savage Species you should take "Roll with It" and "Pain Mastery" Roll with it gives DR 2/- (and can be taken multiple times) and pain mastery gives you a strength boost for every 50 points of damage you take......obviously useful for high HP/high con characters
Stuntman 06-02-04, 12:10 AM	Originally posted by ninjarabbit D'oh! I know you can take improved toughness as a fighter feat since I looked it up the other day, regular toughness you can't, I'm not sure about the others since I don't have MotW. :tantrum: Dwarf's Toughness, Giant's Toughness and Dragon's Toughness are available as fighter's bonus feats.
ninjarabbit 06-02-04, 07:42 PM	^ Good:drool: One more question before I try to build the ultimate hp character, can I take those three toughness feats more than once?
allenchan 06-02-04, 08:28 PM	Yes. :) Take Dragon's Toughness over and over and over... :angel:
Votan 06-02-04, 10:14 PM	Originally posted by allenchan I was wondering if there were any classes that utilize con to grant spells or spell-like abilities etc, instead of int or wis or cha, etc. The balance on such a class would be dubious at best unless the abilities were extremely limited. Con directly improves one of the primary balancing factors for spellcasting (weaker HPs) and would lead to the most fierce battlemages imaginable.
The Master Weaver Is Warped 06-03-04, 07:31 AM	Originally posted by Votan The balance on such a class would be dubious at best unless the abilities were extremely limited. Con directly improves one of the primary balancing factors for spellcasting (weaker HPs) and would lead to the most fierce battlemages imaginable. The socerer my son plays is 20th level with total HP of 150. My rogue duelist 18/4 has 128. It's scary.
ratt182 06-04-04, 03:59 PM	Man I love a good com based char. Ive played 2. they just.... won't..... DIE!!!! they're like the Energizer (TM) bunny. load 'em up with thoughness and u have the ultimate soaker. and yes throw sum DR on 'em and they become near unstopable. it also leads to some really cool char concepts. u get to create a whole backstory why he got to be this tough. i had a guy that was bought by a necromancer as a child. he (and he others that wer in the purchase order wioth him) were to be test subjects but he managed to survuve. when we played he was the necomancers manservant.
Dragonspirit 06-05-04, 03:37 AM	I would rate Con as the single most useful stat. A high strength or dex gives you one bonus, but a high Con keeps getting better as you go up in level I agree on Con being the most overall important stat (who plays a character with a penalty here?) but Dex affects more than one bonus. It gives you AC, bonus to ranged attacks, Reflex Save AND initiative not to mention the skills it covers. Overall, Dex is the most multitasking stat there is!
ninjarabbit 06-05-04, 08:30 AM	It depends more on the character than anything else, but at level 1 I think dex is a little better than con but as you level up con becomes better. And I decided my hp monster is going to be a dwarf barbarian2/fighter18 takin the various toughness feats and extra rage once or twice.
OrionGemini 06-05-04, 09:07 AM	Originally posted by allenchan I was wondering if there were any classes that utilize con to grant spells or spell-like abilities etc, instead of int or wis or cha, etc. casts protection from backlash before posting OK, some people don't like the Quintessential ___ books from Mongoose Publishing, but here's a possibility from The Quintessential Elf. There's a feat called "High Magic" which allows Elves to use the inherent magic in their blood to boost their spells. In game terms, instead of using higher spell slots for metamagic feats, you take a point of temporary CON damage for each level you increase the spell. Not a big deal, but it's the only way, so far, that I've seen Con used in spellcasting.
ninjarabbit 06-05-04, 02:42 PM	I've changed my mind on my build, I need to get to a base fortitude save of 11 as soon as possible, any ideas?
starfire311 06-07-04, 05:56 PM	without prestige classes to get base fort of +11 as soon as possible I would go Barb 2/Fighter 6/Ranger2 With Barb 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Frenzied Berserker 1.... I think this works not sure about the pre-reqs for the Berserker
ninjarabbit 06-07-04, 09:11 PM	The fastest I figured without prc's is barbarain2/fighter1/cleric2/ranger2 or any similar combination, 7 levels, so here's my 1.0 build without prc's 28 pt build, dwarf- str14 , dex10 , con20, int8 ,wis12, cha6 1-barb1: improved toughness 2-barb2 3-cleric1: extra rage 4-ranger1: +1 con 5-ranger2: two weapon fighting 6-cleric2: extra rage 7-fighter1: dragon's toughness 8-fighter2:dragon's toughness, +1 con 9-fighter3: dragon's toughness 10-fighter4:dragon's toughness 11-fighter5 12-fighter6:dragon's toughness x2, +1 con 13-fighter7 14-fighter8:dragon's toughness 15-fighter9: dragon's toughness 16-figher10: dragon's toughness, +1 con 17-fighter11 18:fighter12: dragon's toughness x2 19:fighter13 20:fighter14: dragon's toughness, +1 con I've taken dragon's toughness 12 times, plus improved toughness for another 20 hp, plus a 25 con + any other bonuses I might get from items, wishes, tombs, etc, I'll do the math later for hps but this guy will take a long time to kill.
Trydan 06-08-04, 03:09 AM	Originally posted by ninjarabbit 4-ranger1: +1 con 5-ranger2: two weapon fightingHmm.. why two-weapon fighting? Why ranger? For a high-fortitude, high-hitpoints character, I'd have thought that high-AC would also be appropriate. Hence a tower shield or something. 7-fighter1: dragon's toughness What does dragon's toughness do? What is the reference for it?
allenchan 06-08-04, 03:11 AM	I think its from S&F splat book that gives you +12 HP every time you take it
was_fired 06-08-04, 04:53 AM	When going for a con based character remember wisdom is your secondary and then strength / dex. You can take hits like no other and are next to imune to anything that requires a fort save, but none of that matters if you are hit with a will save or die. Iron will is also a must have.
ninjarabbit 06-08-04, 03:51 PM	The ranger levels aren't optimal, but I needed something core with a good fort save and my only other option was druid, if someone has a better idea let me know, dragon's toughness is from the Masters of the Wild splatbook, it gives 12 extra hps, can be taken multiple times, and can be taken as a fighter feat. Anyways he's the final tally for hps ,I broke 3 slide rules doing the math. 25 con + 5 from tombs/wishes + 6 from item = 36 con (40 in rage) for 260 hps from con (13 x 20), 300 in rage 12 dragon's toughness x 12 hps = 144 hps 20 hps from improved toughness 12 hps from 1st level barbarian + average hps from leveling up, 1d12 (6) + 3d8 (12) + 14d10 (70) = 100 hps So if my math is correct, I have 260 + 144 + 20 +100 = 524 hps for my character at level 20, I could push 600 hps with a potion of false life, rage, and a few good rolls on my level up hps.
starfire311 06-08-04, 04:34 PM	now that I have thought about it the fastest way is barbarian 1/ Cleric 1/Druid 1/ Fighter 2/ Ranger 1.... This gives you +11 at 6th level or even better would be Barbarian 2/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 1 this allows you to spend all you fighter bonus feats on Dragon's Toughness starting at 6th level. so you can get a total of 8 DT's from Fighter feats and 5 from normal feats for a total of 13 DT's With Con 40 on average you can have 2D12(18)+3D8(14)+15D10(82)+300(Con)+20(I T)+156(DT)= 590 If you can take Giant's Toughness at 3rd level this can go to 599
ninjarabbit 06-08-04, 07:02 PM	Good call starfire311, you get a cookie::cookie:
OleOneEye 06-09-04, 08:59 PM	You may look at the forsaker from masters of the wild. Con bonuses for natural armor, plus 10 extra points into Con.