Concerns about new DM [Archive] - Wizards Community

Concerns about new DM [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sachage
07-01-06, 03:16 AM Myself and to friends will be starting up a campaign in the near future. On of my friends, my fellow player, has never played D&D before, however the other (the DM), like myself, has not played for aout 4 years.

My concern is that when discussing the campaign with the DM, one of his comments was "Oh, and you guys better not be evil". At that point I turned and said "You can't just restrict our alignment choice like that". He clarified saying "I mean, you can't go around thinking you know what will happen or that your characters can do anything and everything."

He has a valid point, my concern is that if somehow things do roll in our favour, he does seem the type to do something drastic to our characters... As D&D is players vs environment, I think he's playing the environment and wants the environment to win...

Is there anyway to avoid such things so that we can just play properly? I always roleplay my character, and try to act how he/she would accordingly, but what if my DM's misinterpretation of a comment/action destroys the game?
geekling
07-01-06, 04:32 AM Well how can I put this nicely.

You are wrong, he is right.

As the DM he CAN restrict your alignment choice - just like that. No ifs and buts about it. If the DM says no evil characters, play a good or neutral one. He creates the world, and he creates the adventure - if said adventure is unsuitable for evil characters. He's got a quest for a good diety to save the world, in mind - for instance. Then there shall be no evil characters, end of story.

Is there anyway to avoid such things so that we can just play properly? I always roleplay my character, and try to act how he/she would accordingly, but what if my DM's misinterpretation of a comment/action destroys the game?

Talk to him, before the game. Have a little discussion about what is evil in his campaign. Rape - evil or not? Torture? Executing prisoners because it'd be inconvenient to bring them to justice? Bribes? Killing 'innoncent' goblin babies? Theft? ...
TheChilliGod
07-01-06, 04:33 AM Well, first off, it is fully and completely within a DM's rights to restrict the party to non-evil alignments; whether or not your DM actually meant to. It just helps with party coherence (y'know, with the probability of a paladin in the party and everything, getting an evil character can get dicey) and ensures the DM that, given later levels, the characters aren't going to completely ruin the environment; which would be destructive to game play.

Now, it appears as though you have a DM with a, "Player vs. DM," mentality. Might I highlight "appears." From your point of view. Ifs, buts and maybes, that sorta thing. Your DM may actually be a very positively-responsive, encouraging sort; just not all too good with first impressions. Has he actually done something along the lines of misinterpretation of in-game actions leading to environmental overreaction?
Or could he have just meant that he has suffered a previous playing group which thought that they could, in fact, do whatever they wanted without any consequences (which could have lead to a very unsatisfied group as they surprisingly are put in jail for ******* on civilians or whatever); and the DM simply doesn't want a repeat? Or something else that you may not yet be aware of?

If your actions are misinterpreted, and the DM tries to pull something on you, then all you really have to do is clarify your intentions. If the DM is going to make an NPC shoot your rogue because you made a rude comment about the NPC, then simply mention to the DM that it was an out-of-game remark. That sort of thing.

You could also talk to the DM about what he meant when he said what he did, and express your point of view about the topic. This could either clear up the situation and make everybody happy, or make you realize that this isn't really the sort of DM you feel like playing with, so to save yourself from a few sessions of torture.
Azezel
07-01-06, 05:57 AM Your DM is not only within his rights to proscribe Evil alignments - he can actually throw the book at you too - PAge 104 of the PHB 'Evil alignments are for Monsters and Vilains' It states in black and white that PC's are supposed to be good or neutral.

This is because no-body wants to play with a chaotic awsome PKing rogue who steals from his allys and sneak attacks any NPC who looks at him funy.

Your DM is not only right, he is also justified - he is trying to make the game more fun - even for you.
kelvinaw273
07-01-06, 08:47 AM Have to add my voice here to the many saying that yes, he CAN restrict your alignment options and NO, you can't do anything about it except not play. If you were planning on a game where you ignore the DM hooks and go after the peasents with a little PvP thrown in (and I am not saying that you were) ... well sorry, but most DMs who pend months prepping campaigns and writing their own modules don't actually appreciate you throwing the campaign right at the outset. If this is the kind of game you prefer, you should tell a DM so at the earliest (not the latest) opportunity.
Witch
07-01-06, 09:11 AM Now, personally, I think that some types of evil can really add to a campaign.
My suggestion would be: talk to your DM about the type of evil you wish to play. If it's "slaughter-babies" evil, or "kill-partymembers" evil, then he is fully, completely justified in banning it.
Sachage
07-01-06, 11:27 AM Ok, to clarify, the DM is not restricting our alignments at all, he meant players being "evil" in how they play their characters.

I understand the reasons for a DM banning evil characters, although I don't see a particular situation wher eit is impossible to include an evil character in the party, not all evil characters go aorund killing things randomly... some are extremely calculating, others to idiotic to come up with the idea to attack someone/something. There may even be someone who is generally extremely selfish, but folows the rest of the party due to some other obligation.

I remember I once played a campaign where I was an evil bounty hunter (This was back in 2nd edition), who had been cuaght and imprisoned. I was placed under the protection of a paladin whose duty was to watch over me. I was ordered to assist the paladin for a year, at which point I would face a trial to see whether I would be released. During the game, ven though i goaded and taunted the paladin, I could still follow and end up helping the paladin, merely because I'm thinking towards getting myself out of my predicament. Good plotline lept, evil alignment maintained.

But that's a little off topic, anyways, thanks for pointing out the whole DM can restrict alignment, but yes, I think ChilliGod understood my point, and it would seem what I should do is merely talk things out with my DM. So that we don't have any sudden player deaths for something that was caused from an unlucky role or a misinterpretation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sachage 07-01-06, 03:16 AM	Myself and to friends will be starting up a campaign in the near future. On of my friends, my fellow player, has never played D&D before, however the other (the DM), like myself, has not played for aout 4 years. My concern is that when discussing the campaign with the DM, one of his comments was "Oh, and you guys better not be evil". At that point I turned and said "You can't just restrict our alignment choice like that". He clarified saying "I mean, you can't go around thinking you know what will happen or that your characters can do anything and everything." He has a valid point, my concern is that if somehow things do roll in our favour, he does seem the type to do something drastic to our characters... As D&D is players vs environment, I think he's playing the environment and wants the environment to win... Is there anyway to avoid such things so that we can just play properly? I always roleplay my character, and try to act how he/she would accordingly, but what if my DM's misinterpretation of a comment/action destroys the game?
geekling 07-01-06, 04:32 AM	Well how can I put this nicely. You are wrong, he is right. As the DM he CAN restrict your alignment choice - just like that. No ifs and buts about it. If the DM says no evil characters, play a good or neutral one. He creates the world, and he creates the adventure - if said adventure is unsuitable for evil characters. He's got a quest for a good diety to save the world, in mind - for instance. Then there shall be no evil characters, end of story. Is there anyway to avoid such things so that we can just play properly? I always roleplay my character, and try to act how he/she would accordingly, but what if my DM's misinterpretation of a comment/action destroys the game? Talk to him, before the game. Have a little discussion about what is evil in his campaign. Rape - evil or not? Torture? Executing prisoners because it'd be inconvenient to bring them to justice? Bribes? Killing 'innoncent' goblin babies? Theft? ...
TheChilliGod 07-01-06, 04:33 AM	Well, first off, it is fully and completely within a DM's rights to restrict the party to non-evil alignments; whether or not your DM actually meant to. It just helps with party coherence (y'know, with the probability of a paladin in the party and everything, getting an evil character can get dicey) and ensures the DM that, given later levels, the characters aren't going to completely ruin the environment; which would be destructive to game play. Now, it appears as though you have a DM with a, "Player vs. DM," mentality. Might I highlight "appears." From your point of view. Ifs, buts and maybes, that sorta thing. Your DM may actually be a very positively-responsive, encouraging sort; just not all too good with first impressions. Has he actually done something along the lines of misinterpretation of in-game actions leading to environmental overreaction? Or could he have just meant that he has suffered a previous playing group which thought that they could, in fact, do whatever they wanted without any consequences (which could have lead to a very unsatisfied group as they surprisingly are put in jail for ******* on civilians or whatever); and the DM simply doesn't want a repeat? Or something else that you may not yet be aware of? If your actions are misinterpreted, and the DM tries to pull something on you, then all you really have to do is clarify your intentions. If the DM is going to make an NPC shoot your rogue because you made a rude comment about the NPC, then simply mention to the DM that it was an out-of-game remark. That sort of thing. You could also talk to the DM about what he meant when he said what he did, and express your point of view about the topic. This could either clear up the situation and make everybody happy, or make you realize that this isn't really the sort of DM you feel like playing with, so to save yourself from a few sessions of torture.
Azezel 07-01-06, 05:57 AM	Your DM is not only within his rights to proscribe Evil alignments - he can actually throw the book at you too - PAge 104 of the PHB 'Evil alignments are for Monsters and Vilains' It states in black and white that PC's are supposed to be good or neutral. This is because no-body wants to play with a chaotic awsome PKing rogue who steals from his allys and sneak attacks any NPC who looks at him funy. Your DM is not only right, he is also justified - he is trying to make the game more fun - even for you.
kelvinaw273 07-01-06, 08:47 AM	Have to add my voice here to the many saying that yes, he CAN restrict your alignment options and NO, you can't do anything about it except not play. If you were planning on a game where you ignore the DM hooks and go after the peasents with a little PvP thrown in (and I am not saying that you were) ... well sorry, but most DMs who pend months prepping campaigns and writing their own modules don't actually appreciate you throwing the campaign right at the outset. If this is the kind of game you prefer, you should tell a DM so at the earliest (not the latest) opportunity.
Witch 07-01-06, 09:11 AM	Now, personally, I think that some types of evil can really add to a campaign. My suggestion would be: talk to your DM about the type of evil you wish to play. If it's "slaughter-babies" evil, or "kill-partymembers" evil, then he is fully, completely justified in banning it.
Sachage 07-01-06, 11:27 AM	Ok, to clarify, the DM is not restricting our alignments at all, he meant players being "evil" in how they play their characters. I understand the reasons for a DM banning evil characters, although I don't see a particular situation wher eit is impossible to include an evil character in the party, not all evil characters go aorund killing things randomly... some are extremely calculating, others to idiotic to come up with the idea to attack someone/something. There may even be someone who is generally extremely selfish, but folows the rest of the party due to some other obligation. I remember I once played a campaign where I was an evil bounty hunter (This was back in 2nd edition), who had been cuaght and imprisoned. I was placed under the protection of a paladin whose duty was to watch over me. I was ordered to assist the paladin for a year, at which point I would face a trial to see whether I would be released. During the game, ven though i goaded and taunted the paladin, I could still follow and end up helping the paladin, merely because I'm thinking towards getting myself out of my predicament. Good plotline lept, evil alignment maintained. But that's a little off topic, anyways, thanks for pointing out the whole DM can restrict alignment, but yes, I think ChilliGod understood my point, and it would seem what I should do is merely talk things out with my DM. So that we don't have any sudden player deaths for something that was caused from an unlucky role or a misinterpretation.