Conflicting DM and player ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Conflicting DM and player ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ishindri
10-30-06, 04:32 PM Well, this is just what the title says. But first, a little background. My brother and I have been collecting 3rd and now 3.5 edition books since about 2000. We've always intended to create a D&D campaign for the ages, but never really got around to it. Cut to six years later. My brother and I have decided on a solo campaign, since there aren't really many D&D players in our area. We've decided that I'm going to be the player and him the DM. We've decided to go and make me gestalt, since it's a solo campaign. We have a pretty fair grasp of the mechanics, (since we've been reading the books for six years) and I've decided on a Warlock/Artificer gestalt. However, my brother doesn't want to deal with the artificer part, giving various excuses ranging from "the item creation system is too complicated" to "the flavor doesn't fit in my campaign world". I understand the creation system just fine, and flavor can be easily changed. So, who's right? Me or my DM?

Thanks in advance for all replies and no flames, please. :)
ReverseCausality
10-30-06, 04:37 PM This isn't a question of right or wrong. Everyone has their own method and things are fine so long as everyone is having fun.

One of the major rules to remember, though, is that the DM is always right. He has every right not to allow something. Unless you can convince him that you can completely handle all the item creation stuff, and show how you'd change all the flavor, then it's best just to drop it. However, when you DM, then you can use Artificer NPCs and use all the stuff you have planned.
Sarrazon
10-30-06, 04:46 PM Ok, lets get into this. I am Ishindri's brother, and I thought i might post in my defense.

However, my brother doesn't want to deal with the artificer part, giving various excuses ranging from "the item creation system is too complicated" to "the flavor doesn't fit in my campaign world". I understand the creation system just fine, and flavor can be easily changed. So, who's right? Me or my DM?

Couple things here. 1st, tho i didn't mention it to him when he was choosing his classes, Eberon books are off limits. While he was picking his classes, I was still working out the flavor of the campaign, and i decided Eberon didn't really fit it. Thats really the main reason i don't want him to play one, but i haven't been able to perfectly grasp the creation system, and I'm not sure if that will be the best for the campaign if one of the solo char.'s classes is totally based around it.

Those are really the only hard and fast reasons i have for it,but because the campaign world isn't totally finished yet, that may change

Thank you in advance for Intelligent responses
ReverseCausality
10-30-06, 05:00 PM And there you have it. No Eberron stuff.

The DM has every right to pick and choose which stuff will be allowed and which stuff won't. If artificer won't fit, so be it. Save the ideas for when you DM.
Daxen
10-30-06, 05:06 PM A few questions to the DM brother.

1.) Does Alchemy exist in your world? If so how widespread is it? Is there an Alchemist in every town or are there a few guys messing with chemicals in secret labs?

2.) If not. This character could be the first Artificer ever, atleast as far as he knows. He wouldn't start taking levels in it right away and would probably start as a Warlock/Wizard Gestalt. This allows the player to pick up the class later as you slowly learn the Artificer ways.

3.) If Ebberon Books are not allowed, that can be a hard and fast rule, which in my opinion any DM is well within their rights to do.

4.) Even with wizard you will have to deal with item creation at some point.

To the Player

The fact comes down to one simple fact. If something is denied to you you have to alter your character concept. If the DM has to allow something they were not originally prepared for he has to change an entire world. I know it really stinks when you have this great idea and the DM says no, but it is sometimes a necessary evil. Decide what you want your character to be able to do, don't thrust a class label on it, and you apply what the character would do with the resources at hand.

Neither one of you is right or wrong, but I would say that your brother has willingly taken on the task of DM, which while fun, can be taxing. If there is an aspect of the game he is uncomfortable with it is best left out in my experience.

For example, I have already told my friends that if I ever run a game. The feat Natural Spell does not exist. Am I wrong? Some may say so. It doesn't change the fact that I am uncomfortable with the rammifications of Natural Spell and thus do not allow it.

Hope this helped, all just my 2 cents. Sorry if I rambled.
Sarrazon
10-30-06, 05:22 PM A few questions to the DM brother.

1.) Does Alchemy exist in your world? If so how widespread is it? Is there an Alchemist in every town or are there a few guys messing with chemicals in secret labs?

Yes it does, and it's kinda in-between this. It's not really very widespread, but it does happen

2.) If not. This character could be the first Artificer ever, atleast as far as he knows. He wouldn't start taking levels in it right away and would probably start as a Warlock/Wizard Gestalt. This allows the player to pick up the class later as you slowly learn the Artificer ways.

Ok, that does sound like a good idea

4.) Even with wizard you will have to deal with item creation at some point.

Right, but it IS really more of a flavor issue...an in how artificers TREAT magic... as knowledge, not as magic, which is how its treated in my campaign
On_the_wings_of_TPK
10-30-06, 05:32 PM This really is a non-issue. The DM has stated that he does want Artificers, or any of Ebberon in his game. Thus no Ebberon. simply as that. My DM doesn't allow Ebberon material in his fariun Campaign, and I do not allow Fariun in my Ebberon game. There is nothing wrong with this discision it is reasonable, and justified. Hell "becuase i don't to" is enough of a justification to not allow classes, feats, ablities, etc.

As a plyer though you can decide wheather or not to play in a Dms given campaign. If you decide not to play, well so be it, you no longer play in the campaign, and need to find a new DM whose rules you perfer. If you do however decide to play anyways, then by agreeing to play in the game, you agree to abide by the DMs rulings. This agreement may be terminated, by either party, at anytime, by the other simply not playing anymore. It really is that simple.
Ishindri
10-30-06, 05:40 PM Well, thank you to all those who responded with their opinions. I decided to yield to my brother's wishes, and change to Warlock/Erudite.
Sarrazon
10-30-06, 05:42 PM I also want to thank everyone, now that that is over, we can get this thing off the ground!
Thubby
10-30-06, 06:47 PM you chose him as dm, he realy doesnt need an excuse. if he says teh artificer is out "because it doesnt fit" then it doesnt, and you cant be one. its not a huge deal anyway, unless he starts hacking a lot more
on a counter arguement, we have a rule of "if he didnt say we couldnt, we can" meaning, if our dm forgot to tel us we cant be monks (for example) until after we started making characters, he's sol
Tiefling_Warlock
10-30-06, 09:48 PM I would just like to add that this isn't immidiatly obvious to anyone who hasn't played a whole lot and you shouldn't feel bad. (I'm sure I would if I thought I have a justification for something and turned out I was wrong) that was an example. You were not wrong, just inexperianced.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ishindri 10-30-06, 04:32 PM	Well, this is just what the title says. But first, a little background. My brother and I have been collecting 3rd and now 3.5 edition books since about 2000. We've always intended to create a D&D campaign for the ages, but never really got around to it. Cut to six years later. My brother and I have decided on a solo campaign, since there aren't really many D&D players in our area. We've decided that I'm going to be the player and him the DM. We've decided to go and make me gestalt, since it's a solo campaign. We have a pretty fair grasp of the mechanics, (since we've been reading the books for six years) and I've decided on a Warlock/Artificer gestalt. However, my brother doesn't want to deal with the artificer part, giving various excuses ranging from "the item creation system is too complicated" to "the flavor doesn't fit in my campaign world". I understand the creation system just fine, and flavor can be easily changed. So, who's right? Me or my DM? Thanks in advance for all replies and no flames, please. :)
ReverseCausality 10-30-06, 04:37 PM	This isn't a question of right or wrong. Everyone has their own method and things are fine so long as everyone is having fun. One of the major rules to remember, though, is that the DM is always right. He has every right not to allow something. Unless you can convince him that you can completely handle all the item creation stuff, and show how you'd change all the flavor, then it's best just to drop it. However, when you DM, then you can use Artificer NPCs and use all the stuff you have planned.
Sarrazon 10-30-06, 04:46 PM	Ok, lets get into this. I am Ishindri's brother, and I thought i might post in my defense. However, my brother doesn't want to deal with the artificer part, giving various excuses ranging from "the item creation system is too complicated" to "the flavor doesn't fit in my campaign world". I understand the creation system just fine, and flavor can be easily changed. So, who's right? Me or my DM? Couple things here. 1st, tho i didn't mention it to him when he was choosing his classes, Eberon books are off limits. While he was picking his classes, I was still working out the flavor of the campaign, and i decided Eberon didn't really fit it. Thats really the main reason i don't want him to play one, but i haven't been able to perfectly grasp the creation system, and I'm not sure if that will be the best for the campaign if one of the solo char.'s classes is totally based around it. Those are really the only hard and fast reasons i have for it,but because the campaign world isn't totally finished yet, that may change Thank you in advance for Intelligent responses
ReverseCausality 10-30-06, 05:00 PM	And there you have it. No Eberron stuff. The DM has every right to pick and choose which stuff will be allowed and which stuff won't. If artificer won't fit, so be it. Save the ideas for when you DM.
Daxen 10-30-06, 05:06 PM	A few questions to the DM brother. 1.) Does Alchemy exist in your world? If so how widespread is it? Is there an Alchemist in every town or are there a few guys messing with chemicals in secret labs? 2.) If not. This character could be the first Artificer ever, atleast as far as he knows. He wouldn't start taking levels in it right away and would probably start as a Warlock/Wizard Gestalt. This allows the player to pick up the class later as you slowly learn the Artificer ways. 3.) If Ebberon Books are not allowed, that can be a hard and fast rule, which in my opinion any DM is well within their rights to do. 4.) Even with wizard you will have to deal with item creation at some point. To the Player The fact comes down to one simple fact. If something is denied to you you have to alter your character concept. If the DM has to allow something they were not originally prepared for he has to change an entire world. I know it really stinks when you have this great idea and the DM says no, but it is sometimes a necessary evil. Decide what you want your character to be able to do, don't thrust a class label on it, and you apply what the character would do with the resources at hand. Neither one of you is right or wrong, but I would say that your brother has willingly taken on the task of DM, which while fun, can be taxing. If there is an aspect of the game he is uncomfortable with it is best left out in my experience. For example, I have already told my friends that if I ever run a game. The feat Natural Spell does not exist. Am I wrong? Some may say so. It doesn't change the fact that I am uncomfortable with the rammifications of Natural Spell and thus do not allow it. Hope this helped, all just my 2 cents. Sorry if I rambled.
Sarrazon 10-30-06, 05:22 PM	A few questions to the DM brother. 1.) Does Alchemy exist in your world? If so how widespread is it? Is there an Alchemist in every town or are there a few guys messing with chemicals in secret labs? Yes it does, and it's kinda in-between this. It's not really very widespread, but it does happen 2.) If not. This character could be the first Artificer ever, atleast as far as he knows. He wouldn't start taking levels in it right away and would probably start as a Warlock/Wizard Gestalt. This allows the player to pick up the class later as you slowly learn the Artificer ways. Ok, that does sound like a good idea 4.) Even with wizard you will have to deal with item creation at some point. Right, but it IS really more of a flavor issue...an in how artificers TREAT magic... as knowledge, not as magic, which is how its treated in my campaign
On_the_wings_of_TPK 10-30-06, 05:32 PM	This really is a non-issue. The DM has stated that he does want Artificers, or any of Ebberon in his game. Thus no Ebberon. simply as that. My DM doesn't allow Ebberon material in his fariun Campaign, and I do not allow Fariun in my Ebberon game. There is nothing wrong with this discision it is reasonable, and justified. Hell "becuase i don't to" is enough of a justification to not allow classes, feats, ablities, etc. As a plyer though you can decide wheather or not to play in a Dms given campaign. If you decide not to play, well so be it, you no longer play in the campaign, and need to find a new DM whose rules you perfer. If you do however decide to play anyways, then by agreeing to play in the game, you agree to abide by the DMs rulings. This agreement may be terminated, by either party, at anytime, by the other simply not playing anymore. It really is that simple.
Ishindri 10-30-06, 05:40 PM	Well, thank you to all those who responded with their opinions. I decided to yield to my brother's wishes, and change to Warlock/Erudite.
Sarrazon 10-30-06, 05:42 PM	I also want to thank everyone, now that that is over, we can get this thing off the ground!
Thubby 10-30-06, 06:47 PM	you chose him as dm, he realy doesnt need an excuse. if he says teh artificer is out "because it doesnt fit" then it doesnt, and you cant be one. its not a huge deal anyway, unless he starts hacking a lot more on a counter arguement, we have a rule of "if he didnt say we couldnt, we can" meaning, if our dm forgot to tel us we cant be monks (for example) until after we started making characters, he's sol
Tiefling_Warlock 10-30-06, 09:48 PM	I would just like to add that this isn't immidiatly obvious to anyone who hasn't played a whole lot and you shouldn't feel bad. (I'm sure I would if I thought I have a justification for something and turned out I was wrong) that was an example. You were not wrong, just inexperianced.