Conflicting Play styles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Conflicting Play styles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Delfedd
12-12-07, 07:05 AM Me and my buddies are playing some low level characters. As a change of pace, I decided to play a beguiler investigator, with mostly social skills, trying to figure out things before the other players did.

One of my other friends is playing as a monk.

Our play styles clash. I try to play as smart as I can, while he wants to get in to the fighting as quickly as possible.

For example, at one point in this weeks session, I was attempting to gain access to a warehouse filled with guards. There where a lot of guards inside, and my bluff checks weren't going quite so well, but I hadn't blown my cover yet.

It was at this point that the dwarf monk punched one of the guys in the balls.

That didn't make me happy. I'm getting a little frustrated, because I'm pretty much useless in combat because I don't use spells unless it's necessary (when the wizard is out).

My DM has confirmed that we would've gotten more XP if we had snuck by them, and has also said that some of the players in the campaign aren't too smart. He wrote the adventures to be played smart.
Meles_Meles
12-12-07, 07:40 AM Don't worry! This is a problem that lots people in D&D encounter. If you guys (players and DM) work together, you can definitely make a campaign which is enjoyable for everyone

Talk to your DM about crafting some encounters which are both smart and fighting oriented. These are definitely not mutually exclusive!

Examples:
You have to bluff your way by a bunch of guards, since you know that they outrank you by several levels, in order to assassinate their leader. Your monk still gets his fighting, and you get your sneaky goodness.

The cult/crime syndicate/evil bunny temple you need information about only exchanges information orally. Nothing written down. So if you want to know more about them, killing them outright won't do you any good. Subdual damage for the monk, interrogation for you. Killing off a low-level cult member for the monk, impersonating him to gain access to the temple for you. Following a cult member to gain information for you, silently dispatching his anti-espionage bodyguards for the monk.

This way, neither of you gets penalized for your play styles. In fact, it makes the campaign flow better since you each have your special niche.

Hope this helps, and good gaming!
Orchomenos
12-12-07, 07:51 AM It was at this point that the dwarf monk punched one of the guys in the balls.

That didn't make me happy.
If you were not happy, have you thought about the guy who got punched in the balls? :tongue:

More seriously...
First of all, did the monk player did a good roleplay? I mean, is he playing a reckless, short-tempered monk? Or is he just playing a D&D character with the ability to fight without weapons? If the former, this might be solved IC, perhaps after a good RP session where the Beguiler ask the Monk what the heck is his problem, the monk bursts into tears saying he never recovered after his puppy was killed by some trigger-happy guards, etc.

But if the player wants an hack-&-slash game, you (I mean, the DM and you) should tell him that this time, it is not this kind of game, but perhaps the next game (or the next mission) will see the group escort a caravan continually threatened by brutish orcs or sneaky goblins, and where striking first and asking second would be the way to play.

Basically, he doesn't have to change his playstyle that much; he just has to give you a bit more space to bluff your way in and out of trouble, and just attack when everything is lost. Beside, a monk bodyguard is great for this kind of game, because where a normal adventurer with armors, weapons and wands would be seen with suspiscion, the monk can enter barehanded and still be dangerous.
Shadowshimmer
12-12-07, 09:13 AM It seems like the teamwork for this party just needs a little time to develop. Every party has their problem solver/sly member and then every party needs the person that will just walk up to somebody and punch them in the face or other places. It is knowing when to do what that makes a good party. Hopefully this will come in time and if not it does not sound like your character could beat his up so have your character use their wits.
icuall
12-14-07, 11:17 AM One of my other friends is playing as a monk...Our play styles clash...he wants to get in to the fighting as quickly as possible.

For example, at one point in this weeks session, I was attempting to gain access to a warehouse filled with guards. There where a lot of guards inside, and my bluff checks weren't going quite so well, but I hadn't blown my cover yet.

It was at this point that the dwarf monk punched one of the guys in the balls.

Maybe you need to remind him Monk's class requirements are to be Lawful. Initiating combat for the purpose to solely engage in melee is not lawful.

Your DM will (should) back you up on it if you bring it to his attention. If I was the DM I'd penalize his XP further for bone headed playing.
kelvinaw273
12-14-07, 01:20 PM I have to say that sadly, I have played with this kind of player before. They want to do one thing: kill things and take their stuff. If they are in a situation where that is not the course of action required, they will do it anyway. If you are trying to talk to somebody, and they are not getting their action, they will attack. If you are negotiating with a patron offering to pay you to do a job and they are out of the limelight, they will attack.

They know that at any time, they can get their limelight and their action fix by attacking whatever is there, and so they do so. RP has nothing to do with it (I mean come on, monks are supposed to be wise and disciplined: even the evil ones know the value of patience; this one is cruising for chaotic alignment and loss of monkhood in a hurry).

There are two ways of dealing with this, and you need to talk to your DM about the options:

1) next time, make sure he can't be hose things up by simply not taking him. Talk your way in alone, do what you need to do, leave him in the dark. It's cruel, he won't get to do much for half the session, but you can argue it would be impossible to get things done if you took him as he would just start a fight (why I don't know, monks should be good at stealth).

2) take him next time, and have the guards jump on you (to protect you from this maniac) and on him (and suddenly, these are really hot guards!). Starting a fight you cannot win is the ultimate fate of every character that goes around starting fights.

3) the compromise is this: "I'll blag my way in on my own, you come after me and make a distraction to draw the guards out and make my life easier."
toucanbuzz
12-14-07, 05:09 PM Hehe, that poor guard.

A good D&D encounter can be solved several ways. Your DM should not tell you that you get less XP for solving it in a way he didn't expect or desire. You should celebrate the fact that you've got some varying attitudes in your group. While you're Bluffing around, this poor monk is wondering what he can contribute to solving the situation. When things look bad (your failed checks), he goes for the balls. :eek: It's not what your character would have done, but it's what his does.

You should also have a talk about Lawful characters. I'm not sure, barring exigent need or blatant aggression, it is in a lawful philosophy to thwack a guy when he's not expecting it and not threatening anything. Then again, I don't know your full setup for this adventure.
Shadowhowler
12-14-07, 06:01 PM Like kelvinaw273, I have had the misfortune of being stuck in gaming groups with players like the one of this Dwarf Monk.

As suggested already... punching someone in the balls without a DAMN good reason isn't very Lawful... you may want to talk to the player or DM about that.

This problem comes up all the time... if your basic playstyle conflicts with the others in your group, it's HARD to have a good time. Not impossable... but very VERY hard. This is why I try very hard to find groups of players with similar styles to my own to play with. Sadly, this is also why I am not playing right now.

:(

I subscribe to the idea that it's better to have no game then a bad game thats no fun for me. So... I have no game.

:weep:

I hope this changes soon.

Good luck with your game... hope you fare better then I.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Delfedd 12-12-07, 07:05 AM	Me and my buddies are playing some low level characters. As a change of pace, I decided to play a beguiler investigator, with mostly social skills, trying to figure out things before the other players did. One of my other friends is playing as a monk. Our play styles clash. I try to play as smart as I can, while he wants to get in to the fighting as quickly as possible. For example, at one point in this weeks session, I was attempting to gain access to a warehouse filled with guards. There where a lot of guards inside, and my bluff checks weren't going quite so well, but I hadn't blown my cover yet. It was at this point that the dwarf monk punched one of the guys in the balls. That didn't make me happy. I'm getting a little frustrated, because I'm pretty much useless in combat because I don't use spells unless it's necessary (when the wizard is out). My DM has confirmed that we would've gotten more XP if we had snuck by them, and has also said that some of the players in the campaign aren't too smart. He wrote the adventures to be played smart.
Meles_Meles 12-12-07, 07:40 AM	Don't worry! This is a problem that lots people in D&D encounter. If you guys (players and DM) work together, you can definitely make a campaign which is enjoyable for everyone Talk to your DM about crafting some encounters which are both smart and fighting oriented. These are definitely not mutually exclusive! Examples: You have to bluff your way by a bunch of guards, since you know that they outrank you by several levels, in order to assassinate their leader. Your monk still gets his fighting, and you get your sneaky goodness. The cult/crime syndicate/evil bunny temple you need information about only exchanges information orally. Nothing written down. So if you want to know more about them, killing them outright won't do you any good. Subdual damage for the monk, interrogation for you. Killing off a low-level cult member for the monk, impersonating him to gain access to the temple for you. Following a cult member to gain information for you, silently dispatching his anti-espionage bodyguards for the monk. This way, neither of you gets penalized for your play styles. In fact, it makes the campaign flow better since you each have your special niche. Hope this helps, and good gaming!
Orchomenos 12-12-07, 07:51 AM	It was at this point that the dwarf monk punched one of the guys in the balls. That didn't make me happy. If you were not happy, have you thought about the guy who got punched in the balls? :tongue: More seriously... First of all, did the monk player did a good roleplay? I mean, is he playing a reckless, short-tempered monk? Or is he just playing a D&D character with the ability to fight without weapons? If the former, this might be solved IC, perhaps after a good RP session where the Beguiler ask the Monk what the heck is his problem, the monk bursts into tears saying he never recovered after his puppy was killed by some trigger-happy guards, etc. But if the player wants an hack-&-slash game, you (I mean, the DM and you) should tell him that this time, it is not this kind of game, but perhaps the next game (or the next mission) will see the group escort a caravan continually threatened by brutish orcs or sneaky goblins, and where striking first and asking second would be the way to play. Basically, he doesn't have to change his playstyle that much; he just has to give you a bit more space to bluff your way in and out of trouble, and just attack when everything is lost. Beside, a monk bodyguard is great for this kind of game, because where a normal adventurer with armors, weapons and wands would be seen with suspiscion, the monk can enter barehanded and still be dangerous.
Shadowshimmer 12-12-07, 09:13 AM	It seems like the teamwork for this party just needs a little time to develop. Every party has their problem solver/sly member and then every party needs the person that will just walk up to somebody and punch them in the face or other places. It is knowing when to do what that makes a good party. Hopefully this will come in time and if not it does not sound like your character could beat his up so have your character use their wits.
icuall 12-14-07, 11:17 AM	One of my other friends is playing as a monk...Our play styles clash...he wants to get in to the fighting as quickly as possible. For example, at one point in this weeks session, I was attempting to gain access to a warehouse filled with guards. There where a lot of guards inside, and my bluff checks weren't going quite so well, but I hadn't blown my cover yet. It was at this point that the dwarf monk punched one of the guys in the balls. Maybe you need to remind him Monk's class requirements are to be Lawful. Initiating combat for the purpose to solely engage in melee is not lawful. Your DM will (should) back you up on it if you bring it to his attention. If I was the DM I'd penalize his XP further for bone headed playing.
kelvinaw273 12-14-07, 01:20 PM	I have to say that sadly, I have played with this kind of player before. They want to do one thing: kill things and take their stuff. If they are in a situation where that is not the course of action required, they will do it anyway. If you are trying to talk to somebody, and they are not getting their action, they will attack. If you are negotiating with a patron offering to pay you to do a job and they are out of the limelight, they will attack. They know that at any time, they can get their limelight and their action fix by attacking whatever is there, and so they do so. RP has nothing to do with it (I mean come on, monks are supposed to be wise and disciplined: even the evil ones know the value of patience; this one is cruising for chaotic alignment and loss of monkhood in a hurry). There are two ways of dealing with this, and you need to talk to your DM about the options: 1) next time, make sure he can't be hose things up by simply not taking him. Talk your way in alone, do what you need to do, leave him in the dark. It's cruel, he won't get to do much for half the session, but you can argue it would be impossible to get things done if you took him as he would just start a fight (why I don't know, monks should be good at stealth). 2) take him next time, and have the guards jump on you (to protect you from this maniac) and on him (and suddenly, these are really hot guards!). Starting a fight you cannot win is the ultimate fate of every character that goes around starting fights. 3) the compromise is this: "I'll blag my way in on my own, you come after me and make a distraction to draw the guards out and make my life easier."
toucanbuzz 12-14-07, 05:09 PM	Hehe, that poor guard. A good D&D encounter can be solved several ways. Your DM should not tell you that you get less XP for solving it in a way he didn't expect or desire. You should celebrate the fact that you've got some varying attitudes in your group. While you're Bluffing around, this poor monk is wondering what he can contribute to solving the situation. When things look bad (your failed checks), he goes for the balls. :eek: It's not what your character would have done, but it's what his does. You should also have a talk about Lawful characters. I'm not sure, barring exigent need or blatant aggression, it is in a lawful philosophy to thwack a guy when he's not expecting it and not threatening anything. Then again, I don't know your full setup for this adventure.
Shadowhowler 12-14-07, 06:01 PM	Like kelvinaw273, I have had the misfortune of being stuck in gaming groups with players like the one of this Dwarf Monk. As suggested already... punching someone in the balls without a DAMN good reason isn't very Lawful... you may want to talk to the player or DM about that. This problem comes up all the time... if your basic playstyle conflicts with the others in your group, it's HARD to have a good time. Not impossable... but very VERY hard. This is why I try very hard to find groups of players with similar styles to my own to play with. Sadly, this is also why I am not playing right now. :( I subscribe to the idea that it's better to have no game then a bad game thats no fun for me. So... I have no game. :weep: I hope this changes soon. Good luck with your game... hope you fare better then I.