Conversion Book.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Conversion Book.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zorr77
04-01-04, 10:04 AM This might be the wrong place for this, but can anyone give me a link to the Conversion Book from AD&D that was free from Wizards online when 3.0 firs came out. I printed it back then, but can't find it anymore, and I have just finally convinced some old friends to try 3rd, and now I can't convert thier characters!!!
Arbitrary Aardvark
04-01-04, 11:46 AM Originally posted by Zorr77
This might be the wrong place for this, but can anyone give me a link to the Conversion Book from AD&D that was free from Wizards online when 3.0 firs came out. I printed it back then, but can't find it anymore, and I have just finally convinced some old friends to try 3rd, and now I can't convert thier characters!!!

Run away!!!

Seriously, don't try to convert 2.0 characters. You end up with really broken characters. We converted one campaign, and ended up with a level spread between 7 and 14. (Multi-class characters make out like bandits.) It takes much longer in 3.5 (and even longer in 3.0) to narrow the level gap than it did in 2nd ed.
Rogues were generally several levels higher than other party members in 2nd ed. (A 13th level rogue is in some sense equivelent to a 9th level fighter) In 3.5, they should be the same level. Converting at existing levels makes the rogues more powerful relative to the fighters than they should be. (In the example above, the rogue would have the same BAB and multiple attacks as the fighter, in 2nd ed it would have a slightly worse THACO and only a single attack to the fighters 2.)

Characters with high strengths (18 blank) make out like bandits also. We had characters with 26 STR or so at 12th level.

Due to the way magic items are priced, some characters will have greatly different values of magic items.

After our conversion, we had characters with point buys in the range from 24 to 60+ (and that was with pretending their 1st level strength was 18, not 22), levels of 7 and 14, and wealth of 6,000 to 200,000. The same character (a ftr 7, CLR 12) had the most wealth, the highest STR, and the highest level.

It wasn't until I rebalanced all the characters that people were happy, since most of the party was ineffectual compared to that one guy.

Another campaign, which I watched convert, had similar power-problems. One or two characters had near-artifacts, and others had nothing. The GM was using 3.0 experience, so one poor guy was still 5th level and others were 11th. He never caught up, since he kept getting killed.

What I would recommend is first:
1. Play a session or two using low (2nd or 3rd level) pregens.
2. Re-create the characters using 3.5 with everyone starting with the same experience, same wealth, and same point buy.

Characters should keep the same class (perhaps with an appropriate prestige class), mostly the same spells, the same ordering of stats (same highest, lowest), and same important magical items (although some may need to be re-engineered). Characters with excessive wealth should tone down some of their items (after all, does it really matter whether someones flaming sword is +3 or +2), and characters with little wealth should upgrade their items or take new ones.

Multi-class characters are very tricky. An old style fighter/whatever is best represented as having mostly whatever levels. (For example, a Ftr 9/Thief 13 might be a Ftr 4/Rogue 8 in a 12th level party.) Key levels for Ftr/whatevers are 1 (to get the fighter proficiencies), 2 (2nd feat), and 4 (weapon specialization).

"Classic" 2nd edition multiclasses are best handled via the 3.5 prestige classes (which are not mentioned in the conversion book)
Ftr/Wizard -- Eldritch Knight
Wizard/Thief-- Arcane Trickster
Wizard/Priest -- Mystic Theurge.

Note that there is no good reason why you can't make a modified Arcane Trickster based off of a Cleric/Thief.

Anyway, that's my take on it.
SmiloDan
04-01-04, 02:38 PM Well, maybe find the average party level, and have everyone try to re-do their characters at the new average party level in 3.0 or 3.5. The systems are so different, it doesn't really matter if someone was a 15th level rogue with a 12th level wizard. Just warn the multiclasses that they're in a world of hurt if they expect to keep the same high levels.

Except 2nd Edition non-epic levels went to level 29, didn't they? Or am I thinking of 1.5th Edition Oriental Adventures?

Just expect them to have A LOT more fun in 3.0 and 3.5. Things actually make sense, and there is a lot more customization available now. Now every fighter doesn't have to be the same!
Zorr77
04-05-04, 03:54 PM I just found the conversion and you are right, this thing is rediculus. Especially on the multi-class levels. The better way is to take the xp total of all the characters and use one xp table for all of them(I would use the Fighter table) so all the characters should be fairly close.
The Strength modifier thing is just silly.
I don't think there was a level limit in 2nd ed, although I never saw tables above 30.
Thanks for the replies Aardvark and Dan.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zorr77 04-01-04, 10:04 AM	This might be the wrong place for this, but can anyone give me a link to the Conversion Book from AD&D that was free from Wizards online when 3.0 firs came out. I printed it back then, but can't find it anymore, and I have just finally convinced some old friends to try 3rd, and now I can't convert thier characters!!!
Arbitrary Aardvark 04-01-04, 11:46 AM	Originally posted by Zorr77 This might be the wrong place for this, but can anyone give me a link to the Conversion Book from AD&D that was free from Wizards online when 3.0 firs came out. I printed it back then, but can't find it anymore, and I have just finally convinced some old friends to try 3rd, and now I can't convert thier characters!!! Run away!!! Seriously, don't try to convert 2.0 characters. You end up with really broken characters. We converted one campaign, and ended up with a level spread between 7 and 14. (Multi-class characters make out like bandits.) It takes much longer in 3.5 (and even longer in 3.0) to narrow the level gap than it did in 2nd ed. Rogues were generally several levels higher than other party members in 2nd ed. (A 13th level rogue is in some sense equivelent to a 9th level fighter) In 3.5, they should be the same level. Converting at existing levels makes the rogues more powerful relative to the fighters than they should be. (In the example above, the rogue would have the same BAB and multiple attacks as the fighter, in 2nd ed it would have a slightly worse THACO and only a single attack to the fighters 2.) Characters with high strengths (18 blank) make out like bandits also. We had characters with 26 STR or so at 12th level. Due to the way magic items are priced, some characters will have greatly different values of magic items. After our conversion, we had characters with point buys in the range from 24 to 60+ (and that was with pretending their 1st level strength was 18, not 22), levels of 7 and 14, and wealth of 6,000 to 200,000. The same character (a ftr 7, CLR 12) had the most wealth, the highest STR, and the highest level. It wasn't until I rebalanced all the characters that people were happy, since most of the party was ineffectual compared to that one guy. Another campaign, which I watched convert, had similar power-problems. One or two characters had near-artifacts, and others had nothing. The GM was using 3.0 experience, so one poor guy was still 5th level and others were 11th. He never caught up, since he kept getting killed. What I would recommend is first: 1. Play a session or two using low (2nd or 3rd level) pregens. 2. Re-create the characters using 3.5 with everyone starting with the same experience, same wealth, and same point buy. Characters should keep the same class (perhaps with an appropriate prestige class), mostly the same spells, the same ordering of stats (same highest, lowest), and same important magical items (although some may need to be re-engineered). Characters with excessive wealth should tone down some of their items (after all, does it really matter whether someones flaming sword is +3 or +2), and characters with little wealth should upgrade their items or take new ones. Multi-class characters are very tricky. An old style fighter/whatever is best represented as having mostly whatever levels. (For example, a Ftr 9/Thief 13 might be a Ftr 4/Rogue 8 in a 12th level party.) Key levels for Ftr/whatevers are 1 (to get the fighter proficiencies), 2 (2nd feat), and 4 (weapon specialization). "Classic" 2nd edition multiclasses are best handled via the 3.5 prestige classes (which are not mentioned in the conversion book) Ftr/Wizard -- Eldritch Knight Wizard/Thief-- Arcane Trickster Wizard/Priest -- Mystic Theurge. Note that there is no good reason why you can't make a modified Arcane Trickster based off of a Cleric/Thief. Anyway, that's my take on it.
SmiloDan 04-01-04, 02:38 PM	Well, maybe find the average party level, and have everyone try to re-do their characters at the new average party level in 3.0 or 3.5. The systems are so different, it doesn't really matter if someone was a 15th level rogue with a 12th level wizard. Just warn the multiclasses that they're in a world of hurt if they expect to keep the same high levels. Except 2nd Edition non-epic levels went to level 29, didn't they? Or am I thinking of 1.5th Edition Oriental Adventures? Just expect them to have A LOT more fun in 3.0 and 3.5. Things actually make sense, and there is a lot more customization available now. Now every fighter doesn't have to be the same!
Zorr77 04-05-04, 03:54 PM	I just found the conversion and you are right, this thing is rediculus. Especially on the multi-class levels. The better way is to take the xp total of all the characters and use one xp table for all of them(I would use the Fighter table) so all the characters should be fairly close. The Strength modifier thing is just silly. I don't think there was a level limit in 2nd ed, although I never saw tables above 30. Thanks for the replies Aardvark and Dan.