Could I have some suggestions on what to do with my character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Could I have some suggestions on what to do with my character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fastspawn
07-03-07, 02:30 AM Hey,

I currently have a level 1 rogue character, high intell and dex(16) and low charisma (10).

I want to play a skill monkey, with a couple of combat tricks like feinting and tumbling.

However I also felt like multi-classing into a wizard. and taking a prestige class like mindspy or something.

I was wondering whether anyone can offer a suggestion on how to develop my character so that i can ~optimize~ it.
Rerecros
07-03-07, 03:04 AM The arcane trickster from the DMG is a really good skill monkey/mage.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm

Mindspy is only useful if you can constantly detect thoughts, like a changling cabinet trickster (RoE).
danielinthewolvesden
07-03-07, 03:31 AM Well, requests for Char Ops go to (strangely enuf:P ) the Char Ops boards. So ask a Mod to move this,eh?

But I think you would be better off playing a Beguiler.
Salla
07-03-07, 03:33 AM Well, it bears noting that a 10 Charisma isn't low, it's average. :)

The main Prestige Classes that jump out for Rogue/Wizards are the Arcane Trickster, the Daggerspell Mage (CAdv), and the Unseen Seer (CScoundrel).
Seldriss
07-03-07, 08:30 AM I would recommend playing a Bard or a Beguiler :
Skills and spells. And great fun in roleplaying.
Drag0nUL
07-03-07, 10:36 AM What I recommend: go rogue 2(evasion is too good to miss)/wizard 5/Daggerspell Mage 10/Arcane trickster 3/
This gives: BAB +11/+5/+1, CL 17 (9th level spells) +5d6 Sneak Attack and +5 +15 +11 base saves
As for feats I suggest:
Lvl 1: Weapon focus: Dagger, Two-weapon fighting
Lvl 3: Weapon finesse
Lvl 6: Improved initiative
Lvl 9:
Lvl 12:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike
Lvl 15:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike (choose the other one)
Lvl 18:

In the two feat slots that are left feel free to introduce any feat you wish, though I would go for metamagic feats, or maybe great fortitude and Imp. toughness.
fastspawn
07-03-07, 10:54 AM is a daggerspell mage really that great? From what i understand, its main ability is the ability to apply their spells to the daggers?
Drag0nUL
07-03-07, 12:31 PM is a daggerspell mage really that great? From what i understand, its main ability is the ability to apply their spells to the daggers?

And at level 10 to allow you to make a full attack and cast a quickened spell in the same round, which is the class' most powerful ability. It also has other nice melee/magic combo related abilities.
It also has medium bab (3/4lvl) unlike then arcane trickster's 1/2lvl.
fastspawn
07-03-07, 12:36 PM i see, but i don't know whether I will be playing all the way till lvl 20, maybe i will but maybe the campaign will end earlier.

But thanks for your suggestion anyway! I will definately look over the suggestions

The DM is only allowing Complete series, so I guess i have a more focused area to search (which is a good thing)
Salla
07-03-07, 12:39 PM What I recommend: go rogue 2(evasion is too good to miss)/wizard 5/Daggerspell Mage 10/Arcane trickster 3/
This gives: BAB +11/+5/+1, CL 17 (9th level spells) +5d6 Sneak Attack and +5 +15 +11 base saves
As for feats I suggest:
Lvl 1: Weapon focus: Dagger, Two-weapon fighting
Lvl 3: Weapon finesse
Lvl 6: Improved initiative
Lvl 9:
Lvl 12:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike
Lvl 15:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike (choose the other one)
Lvl 18:

In the two feat slots that are left feel free to introduce any feat you wish, though I would go for metamagic feats, or maybe great fortitude and Imp. toughness.

I'd skip IMproved TWF for Practiced Spellcaster, myself, but that's just me. :)
Drag0nUL
07-03-07, 01:02 PM I'd skip IMproved TWF for Practiced Spellcaster, myself, but that's just me. :)

Forgot about practiced spellcaster. Stupid me. As you can see this build leaves quite a few spell slots open, so practiced spellcaster can(and should) go in one of them. As for skipping ITWF, losing an extra attack means you lose up to 1d4+5(weapon enhancement)+5d6 sneak attack+5d6 (flaming frost shock bane)+9d4(arcane strike with a lvl.9 spell) which is about 65 damage. This is an extreme case but I expect on average an extra attack to yield an extra 30-40 damage.
Salla
07-03-07, 01:08 PM Forgot about practiced spellcaster. Stupid me. As you can see this build leaves quite a few spell slots open, so practiced spellcaster can(and should) go in one of them. As for skipping ITWF, losing an extra attack means you lose up to 1d4+5(weapon enhancement)+5d6 sneak attack+5d6 (flaming frost shock bane)+9d4(arcane strike with a lvl.9 spell) which is about 65 damage. This is an extreme case but I expect on average an extra attack to yield an extra 30-40 damage.

However, the penalty to hit from ITWF, especially with a combination of mid-and-low BABs, means that extra attack is very likely to whiff. :)
Drag0nUL
07-03-07, 03:36 PM However, the penalty to hit from ITWF, especially with a combination of mid-and-low BABs, means that extra attack is very likely to whiff. :)

Not if you are using wraithstrike.
Assuming, as the OP stated starting dex is 16,at level 20 you get:
BAB+ 11 dex (6 gloves 5 stat increases 5 manual of whatever:) ) +1 weapon focus +5 weapon enhancement, which totals BAB +17.
Factoring in the TWF penalties, this gives +28/+28/+23/+23/+18. Not bad for hitting the AC of the average CR 20 monster, not to mention the touch AC.
Chimaera2000
07-04-07, 02:37 AM Which books do you have available?

The arcane trickster from the DMG is a really good skill monkey/mage.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm

Mindspy is only useful if you can constantly detect thoughts, like a changling cabinet trickster (RoE).

Arcane Trickster works very well alongside the Unseen Seer (Complete Mage). For example, you can get into Arcane Trickster with a Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 1 instead of Rogue 3/Wizard 5, getting into it earlier and saving two caster levels in the process. Of course, that's assuming that you don't just want to stick with pure Unseen Seer. Take a look at the two classes and decide which would be more appropriate for what you want to do with your character.
fastspawn
07-04-07, 02:56 AM the DM is only allowing the Complete Series and the Corebooks, of course there is room to maneuver if i want to pick a feat from another splat book like races/heroes and the like.
GaffeR
07-04-07, 03:05 AM I like human Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X/Arcane Trickster Y, personally. Be human and take Able learner to keep your skills ticking. Make liberal use of that spell in PHB2 that gives you a +SA bonus and fulfill a few roles simultaneously.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fastspawn 07-03-07, 02:30 AM	Hey, I currently have a level 1 rogue character, high intell and dex(16) and low charisma (10). I want to play a skill monkey, with a couple of combat tricks like feinting and tumbling. However I also felt like multi-classing into a wizard. and taking a prestige class like mindspy or something. I was wondering whether anyone can offer a suggestion on how to develop my character so that i can ~optimize~ it.
Rerecros 07-03-07, 03:04 AM	The arcane trickster from the DMG is a really good skill monkey/mage. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm Mindspy is only useful if you can constantly detect thoughts, like a changling cabinet trickster (RoE).
danielinthewolvesden 07-03-07, 03:31 AM	Well, requests for Char Ops go to (strangely enuf:P ) the Char Ops boards. So ask a Mod to move this,eh? But I think you would be better off playing a Beguiler.
Salla 07-03-07, 03:33 AM	Well, it bears noting that a 10 Charisma isn't low, it's average. :) The main Prestige Classes that jump out for Rogue/Wizards are the Arcane Trickster, the Daggerspell Mage (CAdv), and the Unseen Seer (CScoundrel).
Seldriss 07-03-07, 08:30 AM	I would recommend playing a Bard or a Beguiler : Skills and spells. And great fun in roleplaying.
Drag0nUL 07-03-07, 10:36 AM	What I recommend: go rogue 2(evasion is too good to miss)/wizard 5/Daggerspell Mage 10/Arcane trickster 3/ This gives: BAB +11/+5/+1, CL 17 (9th level spells) +5d6 Sneak Attack and +5 +15 +11 base saves As for feats I suggest: Lvl 1: Weapon focus: Dagger, Two-weapon fighting Lvl 3: Weapon finesse Lvl 6: Improved initiative Lvl 9: Lvl 12:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike Lvl 15:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike (choose the other one) Lvl 18: In the two feat slots that are left feel free to introduce any feat you wish, though I would go for metamagic feats, or maybe great fortitude and Imp. toughness.
fastspawn 07-03-07, 10:54 AM	is a daggerspell mage really that great? From what i understand, its main ability is the ability to apply their spells to the daggers?
Drag0nUL 07-03-07, 12:31 PM	is a daggerspell mage really that great? From what i understand, its main ability is the ability to apply their spells to the daggers? And at level 10 to allow you to make a full attack and cast a quickened spell in the same round, which is the class' most powerful ability. It also has other nice melee/magic combo related abilities. It also has medium bab (3/4lvl) unlike then arcane trickster's 1/2lvl.
fastspawn 07-03-07, 12:36 PM	i see, but i don't know whether I will be playing all the way till lvl 20, maybe i will but maybe the campaign will end earlier. But thanks for your suggestion anyway! I will definately look over the suggestions The DM is only allowing Complete series, so I guess i have a more focused area to search (which is a good thing)
Salla 07-03-07, 12:39 PM	What I recommend: go rogue 2(evasion is too good to miss)/wizard 5/Daggerspell Mage 10/Arcane trickster 3/ This gives: BAB +11/+5/+1, CL 17 (9th level spells) +5d6 Sneak Attack and +5 +15 +11 base saves As for feats I suggest: Lvl 1: Weapon focus: Dagger, Two-weapon fighting Lvl 3: Weapon finesse Lvl 6: Improved initiative Lvl 9: Lvl 12:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike Lvl 15:Improved two-weapon fighting/Arcane strike (choose the other one) Lvl 18: In the two feat slots that are left feel free to introduce any feat you wish, though I would go for metamagic feats, or maybe great fortitude and Imp. toughness. I'd skip IMproved TWF for Practiced Spellcaster, myself, but that's just me. :)
Drag0nUL 07-03-07, 01:02 PM	I'd skip IMproved TWF for Practiced Spellcaster, myself, but that's just me. :) Forgot about practiced spellcaster. Stupid me. As you can see this build leaves quite a few spell slots open, so practiced spellcaster can(and should) go in one of them. As for skipping ITWF, losing an extra attack means you lose up to 1d4+5(weapon enhancement)+5d6 sneak attack+5d6 (flaming frost shock bane)+9d4(arcane strike with a lvl.9 spell) which is about 65 damage. This is an extreme case but I expect on average an extra attack to yield an extra 30-40 damage.
Salla 07-03-07, 01:08 PM	Forgot about practiced spellcaster. Stupid me. As you can see this build leaves quite a few spell slots open, so practiced spellcaster can(and should) go in one of them. As for skipping ITWF, losing an extra attack means you lose up to 1d4+5(weapon enhancement)+5d6 sneak attack+5d6 (flaming frost shock bane)+9d4(arcane strike with a lvl.9 spell) which is about 65 damage. This is an extreme case but I expect on average an extra attack to yield an extra 30-40 damage. However, the penalty to hit from ITWF, especially with a combination of mid-and-low BABs, means that extra attack is very likely to whiff. :)
Drag0nUL 07-03-07, 03:36 PM	However, the penalty to hit from ITWF, especially with a combination of mid-and-low BABs, means that extra attack is very likely to whiff. :) Not if you are using wraithstrike. Assuming, as the OP stated starting dex is 16,at level 20 you get: BAB+ 11 dex (6 gloves 5 stat increases 5 manual of whatever:) ) +1 weapon focus +5 weapon enhancement, which totals BAB +17. Factoring in the TWF penalties, this gives +28/+28/+23/+23/+18. Not bad for hitting the AC of the average CR 20 monster, not to mention the touch AC.
Chimaera2000 07-04-07, 02:37 AM	Which books do you have available? The arcane trickster from the DMG is a really good skill monkey/mage. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm Mindspy is only useful if you can constantly detect thoughts, like a changling cabinet trickster (RoE). Arcane Trickster works very well alongside the Unseen Seer (Complete Mage). For example, you can get into Arcane Trickster with a Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 1 instead of Rogue 3/Wizard 5, getting into it earlier and saving two caster levels in the process. Of course, that's assuming that you don't just want to stick with pure Unseen Seer. Take a look at the two classes and decide which would be more appropriate for what you want to do with your character.
fastspawn 07-04-07, 02:56 AM	the DM is only allowing the Complete Series and the Corebooks, of course there is room to maneuver if i want to pick a feat from another splat book like races/heroes and the like.
GaffeR 07-04-07, 03:05 AM	I like human Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X/Arcane Trickster Y, personally. Be human and take Able learner to keep your skills ticking. Make liberal use of that spell in PHB2 that gives you a +SA bonus and fulfill a few roles simultaneously.