Couldn't be clearer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Couldn't be clearer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cube004
08-01-05, 02:01 PM I need input in resolving a dispute about the tumble rule:

The PHB describes the 'action' of the tumble skill as "part of a move action." It also says that to avoid Attacks of Opportunity while moving through threatened squares a character may, on a successful Tumble check, move at half speed "as part of a normal move." Then, it says a charater may move through an occupied square on a successul Tumble check as "part of a normal move."

The PHB glossary states, "a character may make a move action and a standard action, or a second move action in place of a standard action."

My question is: Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling.

In responding, please feel free to be as condescending and patronizing as possible, as the answer is so obvious it is hardly worth asking.

Thanks.
Fanged Fremont
08-01-05, 02:16 PM everyone can except for you.
cube004
08-01-05, 02:22 PM Funny, that was the same thing my DM ruled.
OGS-Remix
08-01-05, 02:27 PM My question is: Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling.

You can only do this on days which end with "y".
Puritan13
08-01-05, 02:31 PM Your interpretation seems fair.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe
08-01-05, 02:42 PM That's how I would handle that situation.
Illion the Red
08-01-05, 02:43 PM My question is: Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling.

If that's all the character is doing, yes. If they want to do something else in the round like pick someone's pocket, make a sneak attack, draw a weapon without the quickdraw feat, the answer would be no.
Phrennzy
08-01-05, 05:09 PM It depends:

Is he tumbling at half-speed?
Is he half-speed tumbling?
Is he tumb-speed halfling?

You need to be much more clear in your question. But I guess that I would most likely probably suggest that the answer might be a possible yes.
OamuTheMonk
08-01-05, 07:17 PM ...if you weren't such a munchkin. Wanting to use the Tumble skill! Hah! Next, you'll be wanting to make attacks of opportunity yourself. Munchy McTumbleskin, that should be your new name.

I forgot my medicine.
mvincent
08-01-05, 08:09 PM Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling. Sure. Here's a related question though: does the "Each additional enemy" penalty reset between moves?
Duvanok
08-01-05, 11:22 PM I think what "Captain Complexity" here is really trying to say is: Can you tumble 30 feet in one round if all you do is a double move of 60? It's the whole "tumble half your speed" thing that's got us (yes, Cube is in my gaming group) confused. Obvious or not, I would like a consensus, as I also DM and would like to know how everyone else interprets the rule.

p.s. Cube,
After the complete disaster that was our last gaming session, the tumble skill should be the least of your complaints. :banghead:

~D
Nom
08-01-05, 11:42 PM I interpret it that any squares through which you tumble cost double. Which deals with single moves, double moves, and withdrawls.
OamuTheMonk
08-01-05, 11:42 PM Can you tumble 30 feet in one round if all you do is a double move of 60?

This is not much clearer.

During your turn, you may use a DC15 Tumble check and take one move action to move 15', without provoking attacks of opportunity. If you so desire, you may then take another move action (with another DC 15 Tumble check) to move another 15' without provoking attacks of opportunity. The result is 30' of movement, two Tumble checks, no AoO's.
Lord Schpungus
08-01-05, 11:43 PM as a move action, tumble half your speed. 15 ft.

As your second move action, tumble half your speed. 15 ft.

Yeah, I concur. Tumble 30 ft. as your turn. Easy peasy as pie.
Vaelan
08-02-05, 01:50 AM You are correct, Cube004.

But don't forget about accelerated tumbling! If you increase the DCs by 10, you can Tumble at full speed.
Nurgan_the_drunked
08-02-05, 06:37 AM No matter how far you tumble, people will still pay the same amount of money for your performance

[/silly]

Yeah, what Vaelan said
cube004
08-03-05, 05:55 PM Munchy McTumbleskin, that should be your new name.

Done. Did you catch that, Duvanok? My new character's name is Munchy McTumbleskin.

Outstanding.
cube004
08-03-05, 05:59 PM No way can you tumble while withdrawing. The rule clearly states that tumble is part of a NORMAL move action. Withdraw is not a normal move action.
It's that kind of abuse of the rules that makes it hard for us honest players to interract with DMs.
OamuTheMonk
08-03-05, 06:36 PM Munchy McTumbleskin, that should be your new name.

Done. Did you catch that, Duvanok? My new character's name is Munchy McTumbleskin.

Outstanding.

Now go, go! Tumble towards your dreams, Munchy! Tumble 'til you're all a flutter with glee!

"Who was that tumbling force of nature? Why, I couldn't get an AoO on him to save my life!"

"Why, that was Munchy McTumbleskin, sir!"
Vaelan
08-04-05, 01:04 PM No way can you tumble while withdrawing. The rule clearly states that tumble is part of a NORMAL move action. Withdraw is not a normal move action.
It's that kind of abuse of the rules that makes it hard for us honest players to interract with DMs.
Nobody ever suggested using tumble with the Withdraw action. You can move twice your movement rate in a single round without using the Withdraw action.
Nom
08-04-05, 07:17 PM Nobody ever suggested using tumble with the Withdraw action. You can move twice your movement rate in a single round without using the Withdraw action.I did mention it in passing.

That said, there's not really a lot of point in using Withdraw if your tumbling, even if it were legal.
Milandros
08-04-05, 09:49 PM My group does the same as Nom. We have ruled (more than one DM) that tumbling is a movement like climbing. It's possible to move , climb, then continue to move, it's just that the climbing is at a seriously reduced rate. In the same way, a character can tumble multiply even on a single move, as long as he counts each square of tumble as two squares. The "each additional enemy" counter is valid for the whole round, however.

Think of it a charcacter running for a few paces, diving over a sword, rolling to his feet, running again, then fliging himself under the reach of his next opponent, running a few more paces then dropping into a roll along the ground. You someties see gymnasts do this sort of thing.
^Graff_EpsilonIX
08-05-05, 10:31 PM I ruled that it's a move action. A type of movement, but not actually a full round action.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cube004 08-01-05, 02:01 PM	I need input in resolving a dispute about the tumble rule: The PHB describes the 'action' of the tumble skill as "part of a move action." It also says that to avoid Attacks of Opportunity while moving through threatened squares a character may, on a successful Tumble check, move at half speed "as part of a normal move." Then, it says a charater may move through an occupied square on a successul Tumble check as "part of a normal move." The PHB glossary states, "a character may make a move action and a standard action, or a second move action in place of a standard action." My question is: Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling. In responding, please feel free to be as condescending and patronizing as possible, as the answer is so obvious it is hardly worth asking. Thanks.
Fanged Fremont 08-01-05, 02:16 PM	everyone can except for you.
cube004 08-01-05, 02:22 PM	Funny, that was the same thing my DM ruled.
OGS-Remix 08-01-05, 02:27 PM	My question is: Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling. You can only do this on days which end with "y".
Puritan13 08-01-05, 02:31 PM	Your interpretation seems fair.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 08-01-05, 02:42 PM	That's how I would handle that situation.
Illion the Red 08-01-05, 02:43 PM	My question is: Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling. If that's all the character is doing, yes. If they want to do something else in the round like pick someone's pocket, make a sneak attack, draw a weapon without the quickdraw feat, the answer would be no.
Phrennzy 08-01-05, 05:09 PM	It depends: Is he tumbling at half-speed? Is he half-speed tumbling? Is he tumb-speed halfling? You need to be much more clear in your question. But I guess that I would most likely probably suggest that the answer might be a possible yes.
OamuTheMonk 08-01-05, 07:17 PM	...if you weren't such a munchkin. Wanting to use the Tumble skill! Hah! Next, you'll be wanting to make attacks of opportunity yourself. Munchy McTumbleskin, that should be your new name. I forgot my medicine.
mvincent 08-01-05, 08:09 PM	Can an unencumbered human rogue wearing light armor with a base speed of 30 feet use the Tumble twice if he takes two 'normal' moves in a single round. In other words, can a rogue move at half his speed twice in a single round while tumbling. Sure. Here's a related question though: does the "Each additional enemy" penalty reset between moves?
Duvanok 08-01-05, 11:22 PM	I think what "Captain Complexity" here is really trying to say is: Can you tumble 30 feet in one round if all you do is a double move of 60? It's the whole "tumble half your speed" thing that's got us (yes, Cube is in my gaming group) confused. Obvious or not, I would like a consensus, as I also DM and would like to know how everyone else interprets the rule. p.s. Cube, After the complete disaster that was our last gaming session, the tumble skill should be the least of your complaints. :banghead: ~D
Nom 08-01-05, 11:42 PM	I interpret it that any squares through which you tumble cost double. Which deals with single moves, double moves, and withdrawls.
OamuTheMonk 08-01-05, 11:42 PM	Can you tumble 30 feet in one round if all you do is a double move of 60? This is not much clearer. During your turn, you may use a DC15 Tumble check and take one move action to move 15', without provoking attacks of opportunity. If you so desire, you may then take another move action (with another DC 15 Tumble check) to move another 15' without provoking attacks of opportunity. The result is 30' of movement, two Tumble checks, no AoO's.
Lord Schpungus 08-01-05, 11:43 PM	as a move action, tumble half your speed. 15 ft. As your second move action, tumble half your speed. 15 ft. Yeah, I concur. Tumble 30 ft. as your turn. Easy peasy as pie.
Vaelan 08-02-05, 01:50 AM	You are correct, Cube004. But don't forget about accelerated tumbling! If you increase the DCs by 10, you can Tumble at full speed.
Nurgan_the_drunked 08-02-05, 06:37 AM	No matter how far you tumble, people will still pay the same amount of money for your performance [/silly] Yeah, what Vaelan said
cube004 08-03-05, 05:55 PM	Munchy McTumbleskin, that should be your new name. Done. Did you catch that, Duvanok? My new character's name is Munchy McTumbleskin. Outstanding.
cube004 08-03-05, 05:59 PM	No way can you tumble while withdrawing. The rule clearly states that tumble is part of a NORMAL move action. Withdraw is not a normal move action. It's that kind of abuse of the rules that makes it hard for us honest players to interract with DMs.
OamuTheMonk 08-03-05, 06:36 PM	Munchy McTumbleskin, that should be your new name. Done. Did you catch that, Duvanok? My new character's name is Munchy McTumbleskin. Outstanding. Now go, go! Tumble towards your dreams, Munchy! Tumble 'til you're all a flutter with glee! "Who was that tumbling force of nature? Why, I couldn't get an AoO on him to save my life!" "Why, that was Munchy McTumbleskin, sir!"
Vaelan 08-04-05, 01:04 PM	No way can you tumble while withdrawing. The rule clearly states that tumble is part of a NORMAL move action. Withdraw is not a normal move action. It's that kind of abuse of the rules that makes it hard for us honest players to interract with DMs. Nobody ever suggested using tumble with the Withdraw action. You can move twice your movement rate in a single round without using the Withdraw action.
Nom 08-04-05, 07:17 PM	Nobody ever suggested using tumble with the Withdraw action. You can move twice your movement rate in a single round without using the Withdraw action.I did mention it in passing. That said, there's not really a lot of point in using Withdraw if your tumbling, even if it were legal.
Milandros 08-04-05, 09:49 PM	My group does the same as Nom. We have ruled (more than one DM) that tumbling is a movement like climbing. It's possible to move , climb, then continue to move, it's just that the climbing is at a seriously reduced rate. In the same way, a character can tumble multiply even on a single move, as long as he counts each square of tumble as two squares. The "each additional enemy" counter is valid for the whole round, however. Think of it a charcacter running for a few paces, diving over a sword, rolling to his feet, running again, then fliging himself under the reach of his next opponent, running a few more paces then dropping into a roll along the ground. You someties see gymnasts do this sort of thing.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 08-05-05, 10:31 PM	I ruled that it's a move action. A type of movement, but not actually a full round action.