Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Masked Thespian 12-14-04, 07:09 PM	Not sure if this is the right place, so apologies in advance if it isn't. I'm currently playing in a 3.0 FR game, with 3.5 bits added in where the DM thinks it's okay (read: doesn't make any of our 10th lvl characters any more powerful than his 120+ lvl Cleric - go figure...), and a couple of questions have come up. I would be very grateful if people could quote books and page numbers for reference when answering. - How does XP work for Animal Companions? How about if they've been Awakened? The DM currently says that they add to the party's level and get a fair share of XP. The same question goes for Cohorts (since there is a possibility of one showing up shortly). - Is it true that a spellcaster may convert any spell into a Melee Touch Spell and have it go off on the target of your Touch Attack as if you'd cast it? Also, any advice on how to handle a DM who continues to brag about how well his 120+ lvl Cleric does (in another game) during ours? Thanks in advance!
Telperion 12-15-04, 02:05 AM	I would be very grateful if people could quote books and page numbers for reference when answering. I'll see what I can do. - How does XP work for Animal Companions? How about if they've been Awakened? The DM currently says that they add to the party's level and get a fair share of XP. The same question goes for Cohorts (since there is a possibility of one showing up shortly). Familiars, Animal Companions and Special Mounts are dependant on their master / friend for their stats. An Awakened Animal Companion (etc.), could, theoretically gain class levels, although I would imagine that it would advance with its racial HD. However: From SRD 3.5 Awaken Transmutation Level: Drd 5 Components: V, S, DF, XP Casting Time: 24 hours Range: Touch Target: Animal or tree touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You awaken a tree or animal to humanlike sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal’s current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened). The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it. An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human’s. An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount. An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). XP Cost: 250 XP. - Is it true that a spellcaster may convert any spell into a Melee Touch Spell and have it go off on the target of your Touch Attack as if you'd cast it? No such thing. However, there's probably a Meta Magic feat somewhere out there that allows you to do this. I have seen stranger things... Also, any advice on how to handle a DM who continues to brag about how well his 120+ lvl Cleric does (in another game) during ours? Yawn a lot whenever he starts and politely ask him to continue running the game...
Nom 12-15-04, 07:36 AM	- How does XP work for Animal Companions? How about if they've been Awakened? The DM currently says that they add to the party's level and get a fair share of XP. The same question goes for Cohorts (since there is a possibility of one showing up shortly).Answers for 3.5: Cohorts, DMG pg 104-105. Summary: A cohort is a subservient character beholden to a particular PC (typically via the Leadership feat). A cohort does not count as a party member for XP determination. Instead, a cohort gains XP proportional to the XP earned by his/her leader, based on their relative levels. A 3rd level cohort travelling with a 6th level PC is granted XP equal to 50% of what the PC earns. A cohort can never attain an ECL greater than 2 levels below the PC's level. If the cohort would gain sufficient XP for this to occur, their XP caps out 1 short of what is needed to grant them an ECL of 1 below the PC. Comment: A cohort is similar to a companion, paid for via the leadership feat. At 2 levels below the PC, a cohort has roughly 1/2 the combat effectiveness of a full PC. Cohorts typically do not act independently, but instead support their leader. Animal companions, PH pg 36 Summary: An animal companion is a base animal of the appropriate type, with bonuses because of its association with the druid. It remains an animal (note errata). The animal does not gain XP or hit dice independently of the druid, rather it's statistics are upgraded based on the druid level as described on PH pg 35 ("as a druid advances in level, the animals power increases as shown on the table in the sidebar") and pg 36. No specific rule is given about an animal that is released from service, but since the improvements are a function of being a druid's animal companion it is reasonable to assume the powers fade away over the following 24 hours. Comment: Animal companions are a druid class feature. They do not count in any way for XP purposes. A druid opponent without an animal companion should be treated as an "easier" encounter when calculating XP. Awaken, PH pg 202: Comment: When you awaken an animal or tree, it ceases to be an animal or tree and becomes an augmented magical beast. The DM should treat it as a friendly character (see DMG pg 104 on discussion of various types of allies). The animal is no longer eligible to be an animal companion, and thus loses all associated benefits. However, it is eligible to be an ally or a cohort, if you so wish. An awakened animal acting as an ally or a cohort follows all applicable rules for allies or cohorts respectively.
Masked Thespian 12-16-04, 01:04 PM	Thanks for the help chaps - it's been quite useful (from an overall perspective POV). Anyone able to help me out with 3.0 though?
zerubabel 12-16-04, 02:51 PM	as i remember it cohort exp was very complex in 3.0 it did count as a party member and there was a formula that gave the party some of the cohort absored exp back. if you have access to 3.0 dmg it should be able to answer the cohort exp thing. being able able to convert any spell into a melee touch :confused: never heard of that one, just chalk it up to a houserule. if all he wants is to keep the palyers in his game under the capabilities of his whatever lvl cleric sounds like he is on a twisted power trip. z
TelinArtho 12-16-04, 03:11 PM	I don't have the 3.0 DMG in front of me, but since I've reviewed this stuff very recently, here it is: A cohort gains a 1/2 share of experience from the party. So, if there are 4 party members and one cohort - the cohort gets 1/10th of the experience, and the rest of the players get 1/5th of the experience + 1/4*(1/10) of the experience. (or put another way: 4/40 for the cohort, 9/40 for each PC). In 3.0, after the cohort is initially received from the leadership feat, there is no restriction on how many levels he/she can gain (in relation to the leader PC).
Masked Thespian 12-16-04, 05:21 PM	The main problem is as such: We have a 10th lvl Aasimar Sorcerer (ECL 11), a 12th lvl Human Ranger/Fighter/Order of the Bow Initiate, an 11th lvl Tiefling Rogue/Fighter/Duellist (ECL 12), a 10th lvl Human Egoist/Psychic Warrior/Urban Ranger/War Mind and a 9th lvl Wild (or Wood) Elf Druid. It's the Druid's animal companions (a pair of Wolves) that are the main problem - they've been both Awakened and had the ritual described in Masters of the Wild (to give them extra HD) applied to them at least once. With the Awakening, they also have at least 1 level in Fighter each. They are supposedly CR 6 each, CR 8 together, and are being treated as such by the DM for gaining XP (though they don't contribute to the party's overall level for working out the XP total to begin with). It's a complete mess, and I don't know how it's supposed to work. Any insight would be nice :confused:
e-z0r 12-16-04, 07:30 PM	When an animal is awakened, it can no longer be an animal companion. Like Telperion already pasted: "An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount." And if Nom is correct, animal companions shouldn't count for XP.
Lincoln Hills 12-16-04, 08:16 PM	Even in 3.0, to cast awaken upon an animal - whether it is a "companion" animal or not - meant giving up the whole 'master/servant' relationship. An awakened animal no longer counts toward his former master's HD total for purposes of animal friendship, but neither is he automatically a cohort. The animal is friendly toward the caster, but there's a big difference between "I am willing to help" and the animal's former, unconscious "I will die for you" attitude. Negotiation with an awakened creature is a matter of Diplomacy, not Animal Empathy/wild empathy or animal friendship. And if the party provides nothing at all in return ("Say, would you mind constantly short sleep, impossible odds in battle and eventually almost certain death in return for as many trail rations as you can eat?") then the former animal is hardly likely to stick around for long, even though he probably won't be hostile. ("Sorry, Boss. I got a whole world to experience, and as long as I'm travelling with your posse, I'm only going to experience the pointy, electrified, or flame-gouting parts of it. No hard feelings.") Now - the official 3.0 method for determining XP for your cohorts is this: For each cohort, divide the XP an additional way. Give HALF that amount to the cohort, and then turn around and divide the remaining XP among the PCs again. (I didn't say it made sense, just that it was official. I guess the moral is - if you want your cohorts to be anywhere near your PC's league after 4 levels or so, you're going to have to run them in a lot of solo or side adventures!)
PhaedrusXY 12-17-04, 05:45 AM	The wolves are now NPCs controlled by the DM, and hence shouldn't really be affecting your XP by a strict interpretation of the rules. Of course, I could see how he might treat them as cohorts, if he doesn't plan on them leaving anytime soon. They do presumably make the combats a bit easier for you guys, but I am sure they don't add nearly as much as a full-blown cohort does, either. So I'd think he should count them together as one cohort at most. Of course, it's his game... The thing about the cleric is just silly.
Arbitrary Aardvark 12-17-04, 03:54 PM	The wolves are now NPCs controlled by the DM, and hence shouldn't really be affecting your XP by a strict interpretation of the rules. Of course, I could see how he might treat them as cohorts, if he doesn't plan on them leaving anytime soon. They do presumably make the combats a bit easier for you guys, but I am sure they don't add nearly as much as a full-blown cohort does, either. So I'd think he should count them together as one cohort at most. Of course, it's his game... The thing about the cleric is just silly. But cohorts, in 3.5 at least, don't suck up party experience. They are awarded xp in a ratio to the PC with the cohort. If a party of 6 8th level PCs gets 6000 xp., then the 4th level cohort of one of them will get 500, the 6th level cohort will get 750, and each PC will get 1000.