Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nygaard 11-14-07, 12:55 PM	I've been looking to try a new class, and I decided to try a monk. I'm a big fan of Goliaths, and they seem to fit here pretty well. The Powerful Build racial ability lets them use the large unarmed damage die, and gives them a big grapple bonus. I also get to do abilities that seem really cool and fitting for an 8 foot tall martial artist-- Stunning Fist and Knockback. The story I'm working out for the char involves a group of humans who meet a goliath tribe while on an expedition. They stay some time to trade and rest. A human monk in the party bests my char in a wrestling tournament. The goliath is awestruck by how he turned his brawn against him, and asks to learn from the monk. He seeks to obtain Kavaki's strength by meditating on the purity of nature, and balance in the world around him. I've run into a few problems with this build. To pull of the things I want to cram in here I'm going to have to be pretty feat-heavy. Here's what I'm thinking so far: Base Scores w/Racial Mods STR 16 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 11 WIS 18 CHA 9 01. LA +1 - Goliath 02. Mnk 1 - Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist 03. Mnk 1/Ftr 1 - Power Attack 04. Mnk 2/Ftr 1 - Improved Bullrush, Deflect Arrows 05. Mnk 2/Ftr 2 - Knockback, Dex +1 06. Mnk 3/Ftr 2 - 07. Mnk 4/Ftr 2 - Heavy Lithoderms 08. Mnk 5/Ftr 2 - 09. Mnk 6/Ftr 2 - Improved Disarm or Improved Trip, Dex +1 10. Mnk 7/Ftr 2 - Snatch Arrows? Auspicious Markings? Without the levels in fighter, I wouldn't be able to use knockback until my effective 10th level. If I take one level of fighter, it goes down to 7th. So to get it in any real haste I have to go for two levels of fighter, which isn't all that bad. I can't decide on the 6th level bonus feat, mostly because I've never had reason to disarm or trip anyone in a game. What are the strengths and weaknesses here? I figured on putting both ability increases into dex to help my AC/initiative and qualify for some more feats, but I'm not really sure what feats to take at 9th. I've heard that Two-Weapon Fighting works for monks, but it seems like kind of a waste here. I'm leaning towards Auspicious Markings at the moment, since re-rolling stabilization checks helps my armor-less self and seems very monk-ish. But the real good comes when I take more feats in the tree. Is it worth investing most of my characters remaining feats into re-rolls? I'm running out of useful monk stuff in the books I own. Are there any good grappling feats out there that I'm missing? Thanks in advance for your help!
Orenmir 11-14-07, 01:31 PM	Before the argument starts... RAW, Powerful Build does not increase your damage dice for an unarmed attack. IMO, it is a fair, balanced, and reasonable houserule to allow it. You might get some posts contributing to this argument. For your build... You may want to try to focus this guy. If you want to Grapple -- focus on Grappling only. If you want to Trip -- focus on Tripping only. You get the idea. If you want to do it all, you will need tons of feats and you won't be able to excel in any of them. My shameless plug (because I really like this build - yes, I'm currently playing it)... Monk 2 / Psychic Warrior X -- with the feat Tashalatora (from Secrets of Sarlona) Unless your heart is set on Goliath, you'll want to use a Half-Giant.
Nygaard 11-14-07, 04:33 PM	Before the argument starts... RAW, Powerful Build does not increase your damage dice for an unarmed attack. IMO, it is a fair, balanced, and reasonable houserule to allow it. You might get some posts contributing to this argument. For your build... You may want to try to focus this guy. If you want to Grapple -- focus on Grappling only. If you want to Trip -- focus on Tripping only. You get the idea. If you want to do it all, you will need tons of feats and you won't be able to excel in any of them. My shameless plug (because I really like this build - yes, I'm currently playing it)... Monk 2 / Psychic Warrior X -- with the feat Tashalatora (from Secrets of Sarlona) Unless your heart is set on Goliath, you'll want to use a Half-Giant. As I understand it, the unarmed attack restrictions on Powerful Build seem to be intended to [a]prevent increasing your unarmed range, and [b] to prevent natural weapons from being abused while using Wild Shape. I'd forgotten about this while working on the char. Getting a 10 foot reach seems stupid, but i'll ask the DM if I can still have the large damage die. I would like to focus on grappling, cause I think it's pretty cool. Problem is, I don't know where other grappling-related feats are. What books should I look at for that? And where is Psychic Warrior printed? I heard about it when looking for a monk handbook, and now it's been suggested again. i'd love to look it up.
Skysoar 11-14-07, 04:57 PM	Psychic Warrior is one of the base classes introduced in Expanded Psionic Handbook (along with the half-giant race). Powerful Build specifically states your space and reach remain the same as without Powerful Build. Personally, I'd be willing to houserule that your natural and unarmed attacks do deal damage as one size category larger, but you'll have to talk with your DM about that. I hate to rain on your parade, but you'll need to remember that once you dual-class out of the Monk class, you can't put any more levels into that.. at least thus states the RAW, if your DM allows it go for it :D . Otherwise you might want to take the 2 Fighter levels first. Overall, this seems like an interesting and effective build (Grapple Monkey f teh w!) and will make for some interesting RP as well :)
Heros_Backpack 11-14-07, 05:14 PM	And where is Psychic Warrior printed? I heard about it when looking for a monk handbook, and now it's been suggested again. i'd love to look it up. Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) at your fingertips! :)
Endarrion 11-14-07, 05:35 PM	Grappling sucks as a general rule. You're totally at the mercy of anyone under a Freedom of Movement effect. I'd say you should go after an Antimagic Field Torc (forget the book, someone else might know, or google it to see where it's at). [tooting my own horn] Alternatively, I created a decent grappling prestige class for a goliath character I never got to play, ironically. It's in my sig. [/tooting my own horn]
Nygaard 11-14-07, 05:51 PM	I hate to rain on your parade, but you'll need to remember that once you dual-class out of the Monk class, you can't put any more levels into that.. at least thus states the RAW, if your DM allows it go for it :D . Otherwise you might want to take the 2 Fighter levels first. ...crap. Starting out with levels in fighter is viable, but I lose 8 skill points by taking fighter at first instead of monk. I also gain at least 2 more HP this way. With my low DEX score I'd really like to take the skill points, but I'll do what I have to. Funny thing is, I was even thinking to myself how splitting levels like that didn't fit theflavor of a monk very well, but man, this kinda sucks. Taking Fighter first does let me get knockback at 2nd, but Im not sure how I feel about that. I guess it adds to the roleplaying element to have the fighter shed his armor and lay down his weapon to follow his path as a monk. In fact, before deciding on monk I was planning on a Knockback based fighter wielding a Goliath Greathammer (same stats in a different order gave me 3d6+9 as a Lvl 1 fighter...). Now I can combine the characters, I guess. -Punching People Off Of Ledges 2.0- 01. LA +1 - Goliath 02. Ftr 1 - Power Attack, Improved Bullrush 03. Ftr 2 - Knockback 04. Ftr 2/Mnk 1 - Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist 05. Ftr 2/Mnk 2 - Deflect Arrows, Dex +1 06. Ftr 2/Mnk 3 - 07. Ftr 2/Mnk 4 - Heavy Lithoderms or Auspicious Markings 08. Ftr 2/Mnk 5 - 09. Ftr 2/Mnk 6 - Improved Disarm, Dex +1 (for Snatch Arrows, otherwise STR or WIS, depending on the equip I have at the time) 10. Ftr 2/Mnk 7 - Snatch Arrows or Markings of the Maker
Orenmir 11-14-07, 06:32 PM	I would like to focus on grappling, cause I think it's pretty cool. If you want to be a grappler... Monk 2 / Psychic Warrior X Feats (go to CrystalKeep.com and download the Feat doc): Monastic Training (a prereq for...) Tashalatora (in Secrets of Sarlona - not at Crystal Keep) Earth's Embrace Freezing the Lifeblood Weakening Touch Pharaoh's Fist (from Sandstorm) Superior Unarmed Strike Inproved Natural Attack Choke Hold (Oriental Adventures) Psionic Feats (found in XPH and Complete Psi): Linked Power Combat Manifesting Expanded Knowledge - Schism Practiced Manifester (maybe) Powers: Grip of Iron Expansion Strength of My Enemy Empathetic Transfer - Hostile Dimension Door Psychofeedback Freedom of Movement Form of Doom ...you won't be disappointed! Grappling is fun, especially is you enjoy melee combat and are tired of the usual. But, it can be very tough to pull off successfully -- you need all the help you can get. EDIT: In case you can't get your hands on Secrets of Sarlona. Tashalatora is the key feat for this build. It allows you to continue advancing Monk's AC bonus, unarmed damage progression, and flurry progression while leveling in a Psionic class.
rogan999 11-15-07, 03:55 PM	If your DM will Allow it: Scorpions Grasp: From Dungeon 120: If you hit a creature with a One-Handed or Light weapon, deal damage normally and then you have the option of starting a Grapple as a Free Action without provoking an Attack of Opportunity (no touch needed). If a grapple is started and you were wielding a One-Handed weapon, you drop it. If a grapple is started and you were wielding a Light weapon, you may continue holding it. Each round, you may attack your grappled foe as normal with it, except you do not have the standard –4 penalty. I am building a Goliath Monk now.. and i have this feat. you can attack, if you hit, make a grapple, if you are succesful, you then get to deal unarmed damage again. Pretty cool feat. Also if you read the full version, you can hold someone that is one size category smaller then you, by taking a -20, and you are not considered grappled but they are. Pair that with "Earths Embrace" i think from races of stone that lets you do +d12 damage when pinning... And you have the Goliath who grabs and Crushes. Rogan.
Esgay 11-15-07, 05:31 PM	Earths embrace is in complete warrior as far as I can remember, along with the reaping mauler. An excellent grapple based 5 level PRC with some nice abilities (grapple the for for 3 consecutive rounds and they need to make a fort save vs death) Also consider the monk alternative in PHB2; Decisive strike, it trades your flurry of blows for a single, more powerful attack which adds to the save DC of your stunning fist.