Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thetallcowboy 06-17-04, 09:18 PM	I got the idea of playing an old man out for revenge after his whole family is killer by a raiding band of monsters. The story im playing around with is that he was a passive family man all his life and even put away some money to buy his youngest grandson an education, but when the monsters killed his whole family he became consumed by vengence. He used his life savings to buy a rushed apprentacship and now he is out hunting for revenge, in essence a wizardly paladin. But i have major problem making him up to power with normal PCs, he has -6 on all physical stats and +3 on all mental but that is half the fun of an old man. The real problem is that there is no way an 75 year old farmer is without levels in commoner already. i figured the lowest level i could honestly give him is 4 but even counting that as half levels my poor crippled wizard would die in a level 3 party. I thought about giving him expert levels instead but it is the same problem just not to the same degree. Does anyone have ideas on getting around this experience problem?
Nick Soapdish 06-17-04, 11:31 PM	I've linked to this before, but I'm a big fan of using Sean K. Reynolds A Theory About Peasants (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/theoryaboutpeasants.html). Going by that rule of thumb, he'd be a 9th level commoner (or preferably expert) and 1st level wizard. I don't know if this does anything to solve your underlying problem. This guy might have a shot at surviving in a 5th level party or so. Ah, nuts. What am I thinking of? Make the monsters undead of some (level-draining) sort. He's lost all of his commoner (or expert, which would explain his rainy day fund better) except for his 1st. So he's an expert1/wizard1. He should be about right for a first level party. He won't have hit points or AC, but his saving throw DCs should be awesome. You are trying to balance this guy to survive in a 1st level party, right?
thetallcowboy 06-18-04, 12:16 AM	Ideally 1st level party at worst 3rd The level drain never even occured to me, just have to make sure no one ever casts restore on me until im 20th level hehehe
Edward 06-18-04, 12:40 AM	Why dose he need commoner levels at all. Would the back story not work as well if he was a wizard all his life. Not very powerful earned a living casting spells. Sailable 1st and second level spells include endure elements (10 gp to be able to comfortably work in an extreme environment) mount( at caster level 3 6 hours for 30gp. You don’t mind riding it into the ground) identify enlarge person. Cast on strongman to get really strong man arcane lock detect thoughts (Babylon 5 commercial telepath) locate object. Large enough range to be useful in law enforcement continual flame, the manufacture of ever burning torches levitate. Moving structural members into place on building sites spider climb. Construction industry and rescue work. Just make shore you have some of these in your spell book If you think you should be hire level based on age you burned XP on scrolls to sell As to recovering from the low physicals. Start with a very high con or dex (preferably both) str only matters for carrying capacity. Use an extra dimensional space for everything beyond the clothes on your back, 1 dagger a scroll case some wands and a spell component pouch. Wiz and char don’t need to start very good and you can even relax a little on int. use a lot of mage armour and shield spells Edward
Thorak 06-18-04, 01:08 AM	I agree; a backstory as a hedge wizard type, performing spells and selling potions to the townsfolk, would work well. Whatever experience he earned, he spent before leveling, putting it into potions and scrolls he then sold or used. Identify scrolls, particularly, would be good; with caster level 1 and level 1 spells, most spells cost 2 xp to put into a potion or scroll. Identify, however, costs a bunch, and it's probably relatively often needed. And you add the cost of the component to the XP required for the scroll, bringing it up to 102 XP a scroll. A few of those'll burn up experience efficiently at low levels. And now that he's got a goal, and isn't spending his knowledge helping others, he can amass massive power to obliterate his enemies. Wheeeee.
BlaineTog 06-18-04, 01:20 AM	Originally posted by Thorak I agree; a backstory as a hedge wizard type, performing spells and selling potions to the townsfolk, would work well.Even if he was just dealing in cantrips he could be rather succesful (Prestidigitation scrolls, I am told, are quite popular :schemes: ). And then he got his rust education to learn 1st level spells. And you add the cost of the component to the XP required for the scroll, bringing it up to 102 XP a scroll.Where did you get tohse numbers? A scroll of Identify costs 125 gp to buy. It only costs 112.5 gp + 1 XP to make. You don't take the cost of the material component into consideration for XP burn.
thetallcowboy 06-18-04, 01:29 AM	I considered adept/hedgewizard but i like the idea of an ideolistic innocent farmer, who's closest combat experience is chasing away racoons with a pitchfork, trying to join some semi-hardened adventurers. I feel the story looses to much if he has spellcasting experience or is to worldly or wealthy Thanks very much for the idea, the scroll thing is another way around the exp. problem i never saw
ck2001wendt 06-18-04, 08:03 AM	I have nothing against playing "weak" characters, but... 1. Commoner 4\Wizard 1, so basically 1 "adventurer" level. It ALSO means you aren´t getting a lot of XP, as you´ve got 5 "class" levels. 2. Age: 75, so massive penalties for physical stats. 3. Farmer, so no skills useful for dungeoneering or adventuring. There´s your problem right there. Realize you´re playing someone who´s going to die the first time he has to sleep out in the rain. Someone who will get eaten alive by the first Carrion Crawler he runs across. You see him as a Paladin type, but his best Phys stat is going to be a 12, IF you dump an 18 into it. If you´re going to play a character that is markedly inferior to the rest of the party (a CR 3 creature would eat even a Commoner 9\Wizard 1 alive), be prepared to be a run and hide type until you get some Magic or XP. If you´re going to play him as revenge drivien, a Punisher without a military background, be prepared for a quick, ignoble death. Or play him smart, but that´s a long, hard road. The only NPC class I´ve seen hang with a party is Aristocrat 1, but only because his "equipment" (a kick-ass war horse named Pepe) put the rest of us to shame.
tarkin 06-18-04, 11:05 AM	An Expert used to be particularly cool because you could take Use Magic Device and no one but a thief could.
Edward 06-18-04, 04:30 PM	The hedge wizards most likely combat experience is using prestigitation to create a static field that will scare mice out of his supplies. On choosing a path of vengeance he purchased combat spells for his spell books. Take mage armour, shield, magic missile and melf’s acid arrow. These would be the spells an intelligent vengeful old 3rd level wizard would most likely get. Not because they are the best but because they are well known easy to obtain and direct. As a wizard you may have enough spell casting to survive the low stats. As a farmer you will die. Edward
trapspringer 06-20-04, 05:13 PM	I still like the expert class for that. Frankly, I would like a class that had UMD as it's only class skill. Maybe a 3 level prestige class, with skill focus and 'greater skill focus' at levels 1 and 2, and maybe a charisma boost at level 3. Hogwartz-style, I guess.