Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vinex Ridel 07-12-05, 04:52 PM	She's a half-elf, ten years old, and about the size of a male gnome. I plan on making her a rouge. Though I'm still trying to contact my DM to find out if something like this would be alright. But, before I do bring it up, what do you think? Would it add an interesting effect to the roleplay? Or would a character like this just be annoying? Eh, sorry if this is in the wrong board, by the way. Sorta new 'ere. :D
rbrt_Spade 07-12-05, 05:00 PM	this is a good idea-but dont take the kid with you on adventures-a kobold could kill it(thats sad) it could make a good backround arc plus new pcs family for future campaigns!
High King Tigernmas 07-12-05, 05:01 PM	Nice sig... I have three (two now) children from one night, though they are unborn...Superbard... I also remember sitting up a full night writing out a random genetics thing to figure out 5 generations of a family that most of my PCs are a part of...
Vinex Ridel 07-12-05, 05:11 PM	Nice sig... Dawww, you're so nice. Also, thanks for the tips, Spade. :) I'll probably go with something similar to that. I still have to get the DM's comments 'n such.
rbrt_Spade 07-12-05, 05:13 PM	watch out the dm might make stealing the kid a adventure!
Steel Cobra 07-12-05, 05:16 PM	I just have my PCs kids be background and common folk never saw the 'call to adventure' and well it makes it easy on me the Dm
Vinex Ridel 07-12-05, 05:21 PM	watch out the dm might make stealing the kid a adventure! :evillaugh It's brilliant!
Thievingrouge 07-12-05, 05:32 PM	Call me a rules lawyer and such... but I see no rules for making, or running children. How, in DND, does a person have a child... there is no rule stating you can (Or cannot) have children...and if you can, how does the mechanic work? And then the running a child...
Aram al'Castor 07-12-05, 05:33 PM	A great idea story and roleplaying wise, however i wonder how said 10 year old will make it through her first encouter thats higher then CR 1? Her being able to take out a few kobolds or goblins here or their i can see but i dont think shes going to do well against those ogres and such as the party progresses.
ragingmaro 07-12-05, 05:38 PM	If the DM goes more on the roleplaying side and not so much of battling ogres, then this might work. But here is some stuff to think about, do children have lower inteligence scores? higher charisma scores? Would there be any modifications to abilitys? Besides those problems it sounds like it would be an interesting roleplay.
Vinex Ridel 07-12-05, 05:46 PM	Mmhm, all very good points. Our current DM doesn't very much like battling. That, and I'd probably have her equiped with a crossbow, in case we do encounter an ogre or anything of the sort. She could fight from a distance. Hiding isn't too difficult for someone her size, either. Do any of you mind if I copy and paste your posts and put them on a word document?
Sprain Ogre 07-12-05, 06:00 PM	Call me a rules lawyer and such... OK, you're a rules lawyer! Come on, it's just some background flavor. If the DM approves, then the rules work for the pint-sized 1/2 elf. Now if I were DM (as I often am), I'd ask WHY they want to do this, but there's no reason to dismiss it out of hand just because there are no RULES for it. Rules can be made up and modified, depending on how long you expect the campaign to run and if you ever have to worry about them growing up in-game. Now, personally, as DM I'd be against it. A) I run a pretty high hack factor and I don't hold back on the CR curve (or the gore). B) A 10 year-old half-elf is even younger then it soud a pretty good bnds, since half-elves don't reach base age until 20. C) I'd neeack story on why a group of adventurers is going to allow basically a 7 year-old (if you compare the ageing rates of half-elves and humans) along on dungeon crawls. D) Now, besides from the hack-factor, I do have a good number of actual role-playing situations, court intrigue, murder mysteries, spying, some merchanting and trade, etc. so I'd have to consider how a little kid is going to fit into these sorts of situations, and on how I'd have to run these adventures with this character in mind, as the dynamic is just REALLY different. I'd want the player to consider all of this too. Now if they had good reasons for playing a character like this, and the party issues could be worked out, then I'd consider it. Good reasons do not include: "Becouse it'd be cute!" or "Becouse a kid can get away with anything!" or "So I can annoy the rest of the party!" However, "I think it would be an interesting change of pace, and a good roleplaying opportunity" might be a good reason.
Vinex Ridel 07-12-05, 06:31 PM	However, "I think it would be an interesting change of pace, and a good roleplaying opportunity" might be a good reason. Exactly. That's one of the reasons I wanted a child in this game. I might change her age some. Twelve or eleven, maybe? Besides that, someone as small as her would make a pretty good rouge. Just a fun and interesting character to have around. Some little peasent girl thinking she's 'all grown-up' and special (but not annoying - she knows better than to get on an uber-powerful mage's nerves, or make a fully equpied and lethal fighter mad) adventuring along side of her, well, heroes. The DM'll tweak a few things to his liking, if he accepts the character, so it'll fit more with the plot.
XIII 07-12-05, 07:57 PM	How i do it in my game is: Human child 1 to 8 years old : 1d6 stats 9 to 16 : 2d6 stats Would be the same for Half-Elf, 1 to 10 years old : 1d6, 11 to 20 : 2d6, and 20 + starting age 3d6 Average, we roll all 3d6 and lets say i get 4 5 4 = 13 id use 5 first, then add 4 and get the last 4 a little before starting age for race/class. This show the effect of getting older and stronger/intellectual its not really a balanced concept, but thats what we use, and we did had a child in a few games and it was neat! We once had a 11 years old beggar (rogue) with our group and it made some nice roleplaying times.
Vinex Ridel 07-12-05, 09:05 PM	That's awsome. Mind if we use it?
XIII 07-12-05, 09:13 PM	Go ahead, if i posted its because i thought it could help!!
kam_Islash 07-12-05, 09:30 PM	Why be ageist? Why can't there be child prodigies who became adventurers at a young age?
WizardlyFriend 07-12-05, 11:07 PM	all i can think of is a 12 year old Natalie Portman knocking on the door of criminals going "can you open the door it's scary out here" (makes her bluff check), and then Leon comes and assassinates them.
Abalux 07-12-05, 11:45 PM	There was a thread for playing child characters somewhere on this board. I'm not sure it's still up, but I looked at it. It was pretty extensive.
Nani? 07-13-05, 12:08 AM	I made an important NPC in my game a Tiefling child (which the party was charged with making sure she did not become evil). As for a child PC-- Half blooded children make the most logical sense from the standpoint of not having comfortable home lives. Size--Small or tiny (gnomes and halfings). Age--No younger then 10 human years for realisms sake. If I were to allow a player to play child without undue penalty or severe game balance problems (not completely realistic, but with believable characters). Stats-- Str--Obviously some minuses here, either -2 (14-15) or -4 (10-13). Int-- A kid going adventureing would be presumed to be precousious. The lazy ones would simply not become adventuerers and stick to it. Therefore I would give no penalties. Wis-- Same rules as Int. Think how Harry Potter (or a lot childrens fantasy) etc show more sense then many of the adults around them. Dex--Kids are squirrilly. I'd reverse the Str Penalties and give them bonuses here. Con-- -2 (10-13) No penalty(14-15), they are small but they have lots of energy. Cha-- +4 (10-13) +2 (14-15) Kids are less likely to be seen as a threat, seen as more mallable ("Your my new apprentice", the Necromancer says as the newly animated corpses of her former companions holds the the struggleing 12 year old). Those plusses become minuses under certain circumstances. Special ablity--Class exchange: Must be started at ages 10-13, may continues until age 15: As children grow, habits of mind solidfiy around the opportunities they latch onto. At the same time, childish habits are lost, fall out of use etc. A child that is mentored by another character may, for every two levels gained, replace all traits one previously learned class and replace them with those of another class unless it is very thier first level. That level is treated as 2 levels for these purposes with half of your skill points exchanged half way after two levels and the other half, as well as HD, save etc, change after two more levels. Human and Half elven children have the favored class: Rogue but skills such as decipher script that require "higher learning" are not class skills. All the Best, Nani?
captainmorley 07-13-05, 01:36 AM	wow that is a great idea i love it you can continue on permanently with a child from your old PC's. I grow so attached to my chars how can i give them up now i dont have to anyone care if i use this idea for a character? Yipee my half nymph charismatic vampire(toned down so it doesnt have a +8 CR and just a few mods)will never have to die. not that she will she in imortal being undead but i cant start a campaign with a lvl 20 or maybe epic when we get there. anyways good idea. Also just idea maybe you could have the parents bloodline if you where taking it from two parents who you knew the stats of so like kid would get boosts and minus's to stats based on her parents so low str high char would show in the kid but not too much just... enough? yeaidk just an idea? Also you could have traits from parents like if she was highborn she would feel like she ruled the world when she actually didnt? lol 12 year old brat commanding people to do stuff?
Shaken, not Stunned 07-13-05, 01:53 AM	This is a clear case for a +0 LA template. Something like the inverse of powerful build, as well as racial bonuses on bluff and diplomacy, but penalties on intimidate. A penalty to strength and a bonus to dexterity are in order, but I would say more along the lines of 2:1. So. Abilities +2 dexterity, -4 strenght Special qualities Small Stature- This creature may be considered one size smaller than the base race any time doing so would be advantageous to the character. The character is also considered small any time he or she makes an opposed roll, regardless of whether or not it is beneficial. Innocent- This creature gains a +2 on bluff and diplomacy, but takes a -2 penalty on intimidate and gather information checks. LA +0 This is based heavily off a template called 'forever young' by this dude who posted it, like, a month ago. It was really killer, but I can't remember his handle.
DwarvinJedi 07-13-05, 02:09 AM	d20 modern has rules for this, I really don't want to pull my book out(I spent 45 minutes getting all of my D&D and related books to stay up in my new bookshelf, eh, I guess I'll just have to buy a few more books) but check the Modern SRD. They might be in there
braindead345 07-13-05, 02:24 AM	How, in DND, does a person have a child... there is no rule stating you can (Or cannot) have children...and if you can, how does the mechanic work? Same way it does in real life. Female gets pregnant and the child is born some time later. The races each have their own gestation periods due to the varrying lengths of lifespan. Female elves, if I remember correctly (from Dragon Magazine circa 1983) are pregnant for 2 years, female dwarfs for 18 months. Valar Project, INC.'s Book of Erotic Fantasy is a good source for all sexual encounters in D&D. Everything from pregnancy to diseases and how races and alignments view sex. But be warned, the book might be difficult to find in some areas and impossible to purchase if you are under the age of 18.
Claggart 07-13-05, 09:35 AM	I have played two "child" characters in my many years of gaming. One was a home-brew race that was the result of an elf/halfling union. They were very rare and could not breed. They were the scum of society and most became thieves because they weren't accepted anywhere. My character was a young female Thief/Street Urchine (gotta love Kits from 2nd Ed). She was taken in by a Paladin in a story that was somewhat similar to the movie Young Guns. The Paladin took in the most unlikely and unwanted people and gave them a chance to do better for themselves. The game was great and there were no problems with the character. The second was also a young girl (14 year old human). She was the daughter of a locally famous Ranger. He trained other Rangers and had always wanted a son to train. The character finally got her father to agree to train her. Because she was a girl, she felt she had to work extra hard at sword fighting to prove she was equal to the boys. In play, she was a Dex based TWF Fighter with the Tracking feat, but most of the other players/characters thought she was a Ranger. I typically don't play children or females, but I was going for the same thing with each of these characters. I wanted to contrast the weakness, fear, and frailty of a young and vulnerable character with the typical D&D character. It worked wonderfully, especially the second time. The heros seemed more heroic. The loyal and honorable seemed even more so. Our problems seemed bigger. Even the bad guys seemed more evil. Its not good for every group and its not good every time, but like many things its great in the right quantity. This also assumes that you don't play in games with Celestial Half-dragon Half-demon Insectile Psykiller3/deathninja2/superwizbang6 characters. Claggart
Vinex Ridel 07-13-05, 10:01 AM	Just... wow. Thank you all, so very much. :) I do appreciate you help. Again, thanks. The DM and the rest of our group will discuss and decide on making a child during today's meet. You've all been a wonderful help! :ayyyy!:
rbrt_Spade 07-13-05, 10:09 AM	Originally Posted by Thievingrouge How, in DND, does a person have a child... there is no rule stating you can (Or cannot) have children...and if you can, how does the mechanic work? if you want rules for this the book of erotic fantasy-but just say you have a kid with dm liking it.-no offense but thats just dumb for rules on it
eudas 07-13-05, 10:39 AM	The Guide of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge covers alot of this type of information: http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/online.htm Particularly the sections about Pregnancy Mechanics: http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/online_guide/5_preg2_mechanics.htm Note that there are Pregnancy sections for Conception and Labor/Childbirth as well. eudas
BW0222 07-13-05, 09:02 PM	Vinex Ridel, The problem with playing a child is that folks can treat you as one. If you are a 10-year-old girl, as a fellow PC, I'd start the adventure looking looking for your parents, finding an elf to take you home, or finding a nice save orphanage or church to look after you. Honestly, NPCs and other PCs shouldn't be willing to put your in harms way, trusting you with weapons, giving you money or magical items, letting you stay in the inn, etc. IMO, good PCs would risk some alignment shifts bringing a child into danger. I've played an elven bard PC, who disguised herself as a 10-year-old human begger girl. It had some serious advantages -- you could run a hundred scams. However, the captain of the guard certainly wasn't going to send me on any mission.
HorizonWalker 07-14-05, 05:45 AM	Star Wars d20 has a system for playing younger characters as well. Basically, it created age categories beneath "adult", like "adolescent" and "child". It was very similar to the aging effects for older characters; An adolescent has -1 to all stats. A child has another -1 (or was it -2) to all stats. I never let someone start as a child (no one ever asked) but someone DID end up playing a child in a game of mine once. Waaaaay back in time, in the early days of 2E, I was running an old 1E module, I think it was The Sentinel or The Gauntlet or something like that. Ancient and Gygaxian. The party consisted of a Half-Elf Fighter/Thief, a Half-Elf Fighter/Thief/Mage, a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist, a Bard, and a Human Ranger. I can't remember how, but the Ranger, played by my friend Barb, had this Girdle of Stone Giant Strength, which made her the group's best warrior...oh wait, 3 multi-classed Fighters...ok, she was the group's best warrior without it. Anyways, they find themselves in a bad spot, and after a grueling fight with some...gargoyles, I think it was, Barb is fuming on hit points, they have no Cleric (remember, in those days, Bards couldn't heal you), and they know there's other monsters lurking around. The Ftr/Thf/Mg is played by Barb's husband, Rob. He gets this (Brilliant!) idea to ply her with a batch of untested potions they found in a wizard's laboratory earlier. Knowing full well that mixing potions is bad, each character (except the Ranger) takes a tiny sip of a potion. (potion #1): "You feel very light-headed for a moment." (Levitation) (potion #2): "You feel powerful and brave." (Heroism) (potion #3): "You feel much more energetic, and your old wounds cease to bother you." (Longevity) (potion #4): "You feel deathly ill." (Poison) The Bard uses his "ability to know a little bit about everything" to identify the potions (legal as of the Complete Bard's Handbook). He fails on potions #1 and #3. He suggests the third potion to the Ranger, who quaffs it without a moment's hesitation. Now the Potion of Longevity (where has it gone in 3E?) reduces a character's age by 1d12 years. Good for an aging wizard. Bad for a 20-year old human Ranger. In moments, her body dwindles and regresses to that of a 9-year old girl, wearing oversized clothing and armor, and unable to wield her weapons in one-hand. Some players would *****, but not Barb. After a few minutes of the shock and amazement IC, she wanders off with the female Gnome, and borrows something from her spare wardrobe. The Gnome, not having many spells left for the day, graciously loans out her Bracers of Armor, and puts on her spare chainmail. So there we were, with our best warrior (thanks to that belt) being a 9 year-old girl wearing ill-fitting gnomish clothes, a broad leather belt, a pair of shiny steel vambraces, and wielding a +2 longsword in both hands. Said 9 year old girl had a 20 Strength, and was about 5th-level...so if written up in 3.5, she'd have an attack bonus of +5 (BAB), +8 (26 Str, which is equivalent to the 2.0 20 Str), +2 (enhancement), -2 (oversized weapon penalty?), +1 (size?) = +14 for 5th-level, an AC of 18 (Dex and +3 Armor bonus from Bracers, Ring of Protection +1, +1 size?), and dishing out 1d8+14 damage per hit. Which wasn't too much different than the 2.0 game. Barb played the hell out of that character, and I think she was about 12 (level AND age) by the time we stopped playing. It was a strange case of being thrown a curve ball, and adapting to it; in her own words, the character became MORE fun to play as a result. She truly enjoyed beating the hell out of people that assumed her character was a little girl, like the time she lifted a town guard captain off the ground with one arm. (/nostalgia) Heh, sorry about that, I do tend to ramble on about the "good old days".
Sprain Ogre 07-14-05, 05:54 AM	I agree with you BW0222, it would be really hard to see a child as part of an adventuring group for just those reasons, which is why my first reaction would be to go against it. However, I'm pretty sure we can find some fantasy where the situation comes up, and with the right group and players it can work despite of, and becouse of the reasons you mentioned. IE: the child has no place to go, the local churches are ill equiped to deal with the problem, and by the time the group is somewhere that the problem can be dealt with, the little tykes part of the group. Like I said thought, the right players make this possible, and even then it could prove to be a risky mix.
Vinex Ridel 07-14-05, 01:35 PM	Yes, I agree, too. Most adventurers would frown upon dragging around a little child. But, the DM came up with a brilliant solution... The child's dream is to become a paladin, like her human mother was before her. Though she is thought to be dead (been missing for about twenty years), her elven father has told her many great things about his beloved. How they crawled through monster-filled dungeons, rescued royals from certain death, and cleansed entire lands of the most evil beings. A little after her eleventh birthday, her father had learned a few tidbits about where his wife might be. Captured, he heard. Almost immedeatly, he set out to find a group of willing adventurers to help him find his child's mother. She didn't quite see why he'd need a group to come along with him, or why he was in such a hurry. This made her even more anxious to meet her mother for the very first time. And yet, whenever she asked the importance of this mission, she would get the same, smiling reply, 'You will learn in time, my daughter.' Seeing as the child wanted so badly to fight along side of her father, proving to her long-lost mother that she could be just like her, she was aloud to come along. Her father granted his child a crossbow and rapier, 'But only for emergencies', he told her. She was told to hide while they fought whatever monstorous creatures came in their way. And so they set off, the child feeling oh-so proud of herself with a rapier at her hip and crossbow straped at her back. Whereas the father, feeling somewhat proud for his daughter ('She's growing up so fast.' he would say.), still sensed some tension from the other four adventurers along side of him... ----- All seven of us agreed, because we all thought this would be an interesting roleplay. So there we were, with our best warrior (thanks to that belt) being a 9 year-old girl wearing ill-fitting gnomish clothes, a broad leather belt, a pair of shiny steel vambraces, and wielding a +2 longsword in both hands. Said 9 year old girl had a 20 Strength, and was about 5th-level...so if written up in 3.5, she'd have an attack bonus of +5 (BAB), +8 (26 Str, which is equivalent to the 2.0 20 Str), +2 (enhancement), -2 (oversized weapon penalty?), +1 (size?) = +14 for 5th-level, an AC of 18 (Dex and +3 Armor bonus from Bracers, Ring of Protection +1, +1 size?), and dishing out 1d8+14 damage per hit. I can just picture this little kid standing on a hill with an exaggerated sunset behind her. About three feet tall, but looks so very menacing due to those twin long swords and the deadliest look one can summon at her age. :rofl:
Need_A_Life 07-14-05, 02:00 PM	I personally like this scenario... The PCs are hired to destroy the goblin village that is a potential threat to the local miners. After a quick and easy fight, where they've slain all the goblins, they find a goblin child (5-10 years old) holding the longspear of his father towards them, trying to keep away from him and his littlesister (of course a futile act, he has a size penalty, he is unproficient, a strength penalty and is facing higher level enemies), they have the choice between killing him (Instant alignment shift to Chaotic Evil if non-evil), leaving him there (and letting him and his sister starve to death) or take him with them. If the party leave them with the miners or the authorities the children will be killed simply because they're goblins, and the PCs will be informed of that (which should keep them from doing it :rant: ). So now they're stuck with two children, not only that but they've killed their parents and everyone else in the village.
eudas 07-14-05, 04:57 PM	Actually, my LG Fighter and his Elf Rogue/Wizard companion saved a goblin child from being eaten by a group of kobolds; if the child had made it, I might've made her my cohort one day, but instead she starved to death in the room we locked her in. I'd left her some rations, but apparently not enough; we were delayed in the return trip out of the Sunless Citadel, and she was already weak. Telamon mourned her loss and buried her near the citadel. eudas
bomaz 07-14-05, 05:28 PM	hm there is this book called complete guide to unlawful carnal knowleage, it is most likely online somewhere dont think it excists in print so download is the only option. might be hard to find
Arados Son Of Kelfor 07-14-05, 05:37 PM	It isnt in print anymore luckely I got a copy
bomaz 07-14-05, 06:31 PM	HM. Well maybe I was wrong then
Sprain Ogre 07-15-05, 04:06 AM	Ahhh, I just checked my link to GUCK, and it's still there....