Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pws421 04-15-06, 11:34 AM	This will probably sound dumb, but I'm fairly new to this, so I'm wondering if this would be allowed... Can you use a spell to do something that it wouldn't normally do? An example of what I mean follows... Say you have a level 2 wizard. You cast 'Floating Disk' (a 3-foot floating disk that holds 100lbs/level). Say your character weighs 150lbs. Would you be able to get onto the disk, and ride it, kind of like a surfboard or something in the air? Thanks for your input
PhantomTrain 04-15-06, 11:57 AM	It's a great idea, and a lot of people have thought of it. Unfortunately, as I recall, anyway, it says explicitly that you can't stand on your own disc (to stop second level characters from being able to fly, if no other reason). That's why you need a pal who can also cast it. As to the question in general, the spells usually function as written, and only as written. However, I would certainly suggest talking to your DM about variants on spells, especially ones that fit the overall 'theme' of your character or for particularly dramatic moments. In the end, though, breaking the rules is a matter of DM attitude. If your DM likes the idea of your Tenser's Floating Hoverboard as an image for your character, there's no reason why he shouldn't let you do it (and he should accept it when you use that trick to float over his carefully thought out dungeon traps). I have a DM who's feelings on magic are so lax that the 'Flame Blade' spell, which normally creates a blade made of fire, can do anything that the words 'flame' and 'blade' can define. (Set an opponents weapon on fire, cause your own blade to do fire damage, create a blade made out of fire, shape existing fire into a blade, enchant your blade so fire cannot harm it, etc ad-infinitum). The cost of this freedom is that all spellcasting classes eventually drive their user insane. But that's another long story. In the end, trying to do interesting and creative stuff is a good thing. Too many players read the spell section, memorize it, and spend their time coming up with the most effective kill-combos in the game. If I were your DM, I'd look to reward you for that kind of outside-the-box thinking.
Feor 04-15-06, 12:08 PM	Short answer: maybe. Long answer: Ask you DM. We can tell you that you can do something all you like (unless, as with the above example, it's explicitly against the rules) but telling your DM "A bunch of guys on the internet said I should be able to do this!" will both a) probably not work, and b) probably not earn you brownie points if he's of the opinion that it shouldn't. You're not against the DM, or you shouldn't be, at any rate. Tell him what you want to do and how you want to do it and let him decide if you'll be able to or not.
kelvinaw273 04-15-06, 02:25 PM	Use imagination. Really, you just have to read the spell description and figure out for yourself what it can do. For example, using Grease on a ladder rather than a floor, or using it on a pole to reduce friction so you can slide along it. It's up to you, and your characters to use their heads. Most odd uses of spells will come from improvisation on the spot, not planned use.
EternalZzyx 04-15-06, 03:54 PM	in the spell compendium there is an improved version of the disk that allows you to do this, i dont think the standard one can...
Aegeu 04-15-06, 08:17 PM	Yeah, it's basically DM's option. As for tenser's floating disk, it always stays 3 feet from the ground, it is only 3 feet in diameter, and it only moves at your normal speed each round. It winks out if any of these rules are broken. This means that if you have a pit trap that is more than 3 feet in diameter (most pits are), the disc will wink out and leave you to your fate. So, you can't fly, you can't cross pits, but you can be 3 feet taller. Yay.
pws421 04-15-06, 08:37 PM	Thanks for the advice. I'll talk it over with my DM and see what I can and cannot do.
Dragonsblood 04-15-06, 09:58 PM	The book does not specifically say that you cannot stand on yourown disk. The FAQ says no (completely arbitrarily), but I wouldn't have a problem with it as a DM because it provides no mechanical advantage. I'd see it as more of a flavor thing than anything.
Feor 04-15-06, 10:11 PM	I've had a couple of DMs who rule on things, "not seeing the advantage," until the advantage their player was seeing and they weren't comes up, then they start bashing their heads on things. :P Example, Warlock in our party convinced the DM to rule Eldritch Blast as a force effect, DM didn't see why not, then the warlock got the equivalent of a ring of blinking.
Dragonsblood 04-15-06, 10:26 PM	Fair enough, but can you think of the advantage for surfing on a disk?
Feor 04-15-06, 11:02 PM	Crossing water, lava, trap trigger plates, etc. Not leaving tracks so your enemies can't find you. Ascending steep slopes without climb checks. I'm sure there's more, but those leap to mind.
Zeful 04-16-06, 03:10 AM	You could, in character, reasearch the construction of a magical hoverboard.
pws421 04-16-06, 04:10 AM	how would you go about that? (meaning, the research and construction of a hover-board type of thing)
trapspringer 04-16-06, 04:28 AM	In my game if you aren't using your spells creatively then I am getting tired of you having that spell book, if you catch my drift. I think magic should be used in as bizarre and clever a way as can be done so long as it follows the rules. It would be best to ask the DM on a case-by-case basis, but he should encourage creativity.
reff42 04-16-06, 05:45 AM	I love tensers floating disc. I've always wanted a party with 2 arcane casters with this spell, @ lvl 9 or above. They can acutally travel 24 hrs a day, rememorizing spells every 18 hours, at a speed of 30. And you can sit in your own tensers and move it 'stays within 5ft of you unless otherwise directed' is the key phrase. Though, you just have a buddy cast one for himself and one for you, and go to sleep/rest. This basically quadrulples normal walking speeds for overland travel (they assume 8hrs of move) it'd make for some scuffed butts or abrupt awakenings (disc disappeared) but it sure would be cool.
Art_Tillary 04-16-06, 07:50 AM	Creative use of spells is a good thing. Caveats though. 1 - you have to really read what the spell says. that being said, I wouldn't let you use Tensor's Disk as a hover board. Reason, the disk is supposed to follow you. I see that as similar to it having a leash to you. You'd have no way to move it if you were sitting / standing on it. I'd probably let you create a level one spell that would let use some other means of moving it, but works the same otherwise. Ie. lvl 1 Movable Disk, and you use a pole, rope or another spell to move yourself along at 3 foot hight 2 - you can only use a spell as a tech substitute IF the society has the tech, or almost has the tech, already. while I have a set of spells from the SRD that I can turn into an infinate electrical generator powered by gerbils, the society can't use it because they don't have the concept of electrical generation. I am firmly in the camp that magic will be used by people in a D&D world as a type of technology. You don't mine iron and smelt it, you cast Wall of Iron and rework it. You don't build aquaducts, you build Decanters of Water, etc. AT
nyysjan 04-16-06, 08:54 AM	Creative use of spells is a good thing. Caveats though. 1 - you have to really read what the spell says. that being said, I wouldn't let you use Tensor's Disk as a hover board. Reason, the disk is supposed to follow you. I see that as similar to it having a leash to you. You'd have no way to move it if you were sitting / standing on it. if not otherwise directed, it , maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. this would suggest that you can direct it to move within the spell range. and there is nothing in the spell description to stop you from standing, sitting, lying or doing cartwheels on the disk. depending how you read the description, the ruling might go either way on using it as a surf board (a slow surfboard)
Dragonsblood 04-16-06, 01:00 PM	Crossing water, lava, trap trigger plates, etc. Not leaving tracks so your enemies can't find you. Ascending steep slopes without climb checks. I'm sure there's more, but those leap to mind. The spell requires the ground to work; lava and water are not the ground. The disk would not be able to go up a steep slope because the disk must stay level. The tracks and trigger plates could be an advantage, but unless this is a one man party, the other party members would still make tracks and trigger any plates. But if the mage wants to blow that many spells to get his whole party on disks, more power to him.
Feor 04-16-06, 01:15 PM	Why wouldn't it work over liquid or on a steep slope? If a wizard summons it, puts a bunch of loot on it, then swims across a river is he going to loose all his loot? If it must remain horizontal at all times that means a wizard using it in the traditional fashion couldn't even walk up a grade steeper than about 45 degrees, cause the disk would just plow into the ground on any slope higher than that. It would also be rendered usless in pretty much any terrain except flat city streets, since a rise of more than 3 feet in a short distance, say, scrambling over a large rock, would stop it dead in it's tracks. Sure, you can put those restrictions on it to make it so there's no real advantage to riding it, but then the spell becomes all but useless in general and no one will use it anyways. I always treat it as staying a constant 5 feet from the caster unless it's unable to do so. (the caster flies straight up or something of that nature. And even then it stays exactly 5 feet horizontally, of the character) The spell says "Unless directed otherwise it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you." but does not state that you can actually issue the disk commands. EDIT: Just thinking, I'd probably have to say it was actually 5 feet in game terms, as in it's always in the square immediatly beside/behind/in front of you, since there are very few people who could reach 5 actual feet to put stuff on the disk.
Dragonsblood 04-16-06, 01:37 PM	You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows you about and carries loads for you. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight per caster level. (If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 2 gallons.) The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. The disk winks out of existence when the spell duration expires. The disk also winks out if you move beyond range or try to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it. When the disk winks out, whatever it was supporting falls to the surface beneath it. Material Component: A drop of mercury. It can't go up steep slopes because it must be horizontal, and it must be approximately 3 feet above the ground. Half of it can't be 4 or 5 feet above the ground and the corner is 3 feet above. It can't go across lava or water because it must be 3 feet above the ground, but I suppose it could go under water or under lava if you don't mind your loot possibly getting knocked off by the water or destroyed by lava (assuming you can survive the lava :p ). It's pretty obvious to me that scrambling over a large rock would stop a floating disk. The spell would be useful for traveling along roads and plains, not just in town. I'm not adding any restrictions - this is how I interprit the spell, ridability or not. The spell says "Unless directed otherwise it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you." but does not state that you can actually issue the disk commands. It says it can be directed right there in your quote.
Feor 04-16-06, 02:17 PM	It says it can be directed right there in your quote. It implies it certainly, but you'll notice how pretty much any other spell which you can command to move around an area states, explicitly how the spell can be directed. The biggest problem is how we want the spell to happen. You want it to be all but useless in most adventuring situations, (rarely do you find yourself hauling gold out of a rolling plain) but able to be ridden. I think it should be extremely useful for what it was intended (added carrying capacity) and severly limited in most other capacities. So it would float above water and lava like a levitating person, and would climb a hill as long as at least one edge of the disk was 3' of the ground. (so, anything short of a vertical wall) Wth your interpretation you'd also have to rule what was the maximum angle the disk could handle, because even most roads, plains, and city streeets would not be perfectly flat. Travelling down a highway the disk would become useless as soon as you had to go through a mountain pass (where roads often have 25-30 degree grades, putting one edge of the disk 3 feet off the ground, and the other 4 feet off the ground) or if you had to cross a bridge, a structure which often forms a rather noticable arch. And plains are rarely perfectly flat, even the Praries in North America have small hills.
Tempest Stormwind 04-16-06, 02:36 PM	Two links for everyone to read: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50733 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168634
trapspringer 04-16-06, 05:47 PM	I didn't actually read those links, so I might be rehashing something already covered, but this has been eratta'd to say you can't ride it around by directing it. Sorry.
Art_Tillary 04-16-06, 09:58 PM	if not otherwise directed, it , maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. this would suggest that you can direct it to move within the spell range. and there is nothing in the spell description to stop you from standing, sitting, lying or doing cartwheels on the disk. depending how you read the description, the ruling might go either way on using it as a surf board (a slow surfboard) Agreed, it depends upon how you read the spell. AT
Aeromus 04-16-06, 11:41 PM	The book does not specifically say that you cannot stand on yourown disk. The FAQ says no (completely arbitrarily), but I wouldn't have a problem with it as a DM because it provides no mechanical advantage. I'd see it as more of a flavor thing than anything. It would give you an attack bonus for being on higher ground.
pws421 04-17-06, 12:28 AM	The spell states that it can go no more than 5 feet from you, correct? And it says that it can go no more than your normal speed. What is stopping you from getting onto the disk, and going your speed (at least on level ground)? Also, if you cast Haste, you can go twice your speed, while on the disk, correct?
tharivol266 04-17-06, 02:06 AM	It would give you an attack bonus for being on higher ground. woot a melee attack bonus for a low level arcane caster. Wizards shall rise and be the new fighters. all of the power and then spells all because they can cause them selves to float alittle bit higher off the ground than the rest of you losers Bwahahahahaha the day of reckoning has come. you shall all bow down to our power. FEAR THE NEW AGE! YOUR LIVES ARE OVER. YOU ARE OUR SLAVES.
reff42 04-17-06, 03:40 AM	directly from the FAQ- "Can you ride your own Tenser's floating disc? no. while you can command your disc to MOVE close enough to you for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to move under it's own power. it can follow you only at a maximum rate equal to your normal speed" yeah... the sage contradicted himself in his own answer. If he had stated that you could command your disc to halt so that you can sit upon it, fine. But no, if you can command it to move, how exactly can it not move under it's own power?
DaMullet 04-17-06, 03:49 AM	Basically, the disk cannot move in front of you. This means it can only stand still if you are on it. At level 21, you can take the feat Familiar Spell, allowing you to grant your familiar the use of one of your spells as a Sp. ability once per day. By then, of course, the point is moot.