Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Original 04-03-05, 10:18 AM	Okay, call me stupid, for I'm not 100% sure "but' when a critical hit makes critical threat roll does strength damage also get multiplied or is it just added in at the end after the weapon mulitiplier? My quom is if giant or some creature with even a fare amount of stength hits, even a cheap ogre with a challege rating of 2, if it critics you death is pretty often with strength added as a multiplier in.
Cold Napalm 04-03-05, 10:22 AM	Strength, magical weapon bonus, feats all that is multipled. Only additional dice is not...like sneak attack or frost weapon enchantment. If it's a fixed number, it's multiplied in general.
The Original 04-03-05, 11:20 AM	thank you for the input, saddly it helps answer the question, but I'm definetly dead now :( ..................
Cold Napalm 04-03-05, 11:24 AM	That's why a scythe critting is soooo bad. x4 crits hurt. At low levels, any crits usually means death.
Salla 04-03-05, 07:05 PM	The basic rule is: If the bonus is 'plus a number', then it's multiplied through. If the bonus is 'plus some dice', then it is not multiplied through. So, let's take a Rogue with a +2 dagger, a 12 Strength, the Flaming enhancement, and he's performing a successful sneak attack of 3d6. The weapon damage (d4 for typical dagger), the +2 magic bonus, and the +1 from his Strength are multiplied by the dagger's x2 crit multiplier, so that's 1d4+3+1d4+3, or 2d4+6, as they are straight numerical bonuses. The damage from flaming is +1d6, and the Sneak Attack is +3d6; since these are bonus *dice*, they are not multiplied through, so that's +4d6. End result: 2d4+4d6+6.
amethal 04-04-05, 07:49 AM	My quom is if giant or some creature with even a fare amount of stength hits, even a cheap ogre with a challege rating of 2, if it critics you death is pretty often with strength added as a multiplier in. Doesn't even need to be an Ogre. A critical hit from a bargain basement (CR 1/2) Orc warrior's greataxe does 15-48 damage (maybe that's why they're supposed to use falchions instead per the SRD). Critical hits are bad news (unless you are dishing them out!).
snowlynx 04-04-05, 08:48 AM	The basic rule is: If the bonus is 'plus a number', then it's multiplied through. If the bonus is 'plus some dice', then it is not multiplied through. Are there exceptions? I wonder, mainly, about things like "Smite evil!" ...this is multiplied too? Did I miss the text that told me this somewhere?
Nom 04-04-05, 09:55 AM	Are there exceptions? I wonder, mainly, about things like "Smite evil!" ...this is multiplied too? Did I miss the text that told me this somewhere?The text is PH pg 140 (and 114). "Extra damage over and above a weapon's normal damage, such as that dealt by a sneak attack or the special ability of a flaming sword, is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.". This has been officially interpreted as meaning that extra dice are not rerolled, but any constant bonuses are applied again on the reroll. This interpretation can be found on pg 36 of the 3.0 FAQ (27 Jun 2003) and has not been updated to my knowledge.
snowlynx 04-04-05, 10:11 AM	Yep, I'd seen that ruling, I just wondered if smite evil counted as 'extra damage'. I see it does not. Thanks! And now, I worry about the paladin cavalier....
Shocker250 04-04-05, 06:10 PM	i just want to see if i understand this correctly... ok.. strength modifier +4, using greataxe.. lets say i hit... with power attack of 3 so... I roll 3D12, +(6 * 3){strength modifier, remember two handed} +(6 *3)[power attack two handed, so the power attack damage gets doubled]. Sooo... its alll in all, ciritng with my greataxe would do... 3D12 + 36 !!!!!!!! thats damn high... reallly.. really... very.. over the top.. high.
Salla 04-04-05, 06:30 PM	i just want to see if i understand this correctly... ok.. strength modifier +4, using greataxe.. lets say i hit... with power attack of 3 so... I roll 3D12, +(6 * 3){strength modifier, remember two handed} +(6 *3)[power attack two handed, so the power attack damage gets doubled]. Sooo... its alll in all, ciritng with my greataxe would do... 3D12 + 36 !!!!!!!! thats damn high... reallly.. really... very.. over the top.. high. Yes and no ... you have less than a 5 percent chance to pull this off (barring Keen/Improved Crit, of course).
Shocker250 04-04-05, 08:31 PM	it doesnt matter... that i only have a small % chance to get the crit. The way i see it, is... my teammate monk, will trip any opponent, and then i'll coup-de-grace. If the damage alone doesnt do it, then he probably die from massive damage. And if not that, then coup-de-grace damage. Guess what.. i might just start wielding a large sized scimitar. Get improved crit... and bham... 15-20 Crit range with X2 multiplier. Large sized so i can make best use of power attack and my strenght modifier. Although, im wondering if perhaps id want to go the route of Scyth with greater weapon focus... to see that +4 damage go to a +16... and my strenght modifier go REALLY high.
Heahengel 04-04-05, 08:40 PM	I'm pretty sure that prone opponents aren't helpless. For example, they can attack. Trip -> CdG does not work. 'Helpless' is defined on page 309 of the PHB.
Colmarr 04-04-05, 11:55 PM	Heahengel is right. From the SRD: Prone:Lying on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks. Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity. In order to CdG, the target needs to be helpless. A creature is not helpless simply by way of being prone, so no CdG.
Salla 04-05-05, 02:55 PM	it doesnt matter... that i only have a small % chance to get the crit. The way i see it, is... my teammate monk, will trip any opponent, and then i'll coup-de-grace. If the damage alone doesnt do it, then he probably die from massive damage. And if not that, then coup-de-grace damage. Guess what.. i might just start wielding a large sized scimitar. Get improved crit... and bham... 15-20 Crit range with X2 multiplier. Large sized so i can make best use of power attack and my strenght modifier. Although, im wondering if perhaps id want to go the route of Scyth with greater weapon focus... to see that +4 damage go to a +16... and my strenght modifier go REALLY high. The CdG thing doesn't work, because prone targets are not helpless. You'll get a +4 to hit, of course, but you can't Coup De Grace. Since the Scimitar is Large and you are Medium, you'll have a -2 to hit for incorrect weapon size (which, admittedly, is a pretty minor penalty at this point).