Curosity Question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Curosity Question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Acirema
05-28-05, 05:33 AM I have a question. Ya'll know the tripple 20 insta-death house rule right? Well that's what I thought our DM was doing. It turns out that it is like this: The first roll, if it crits, no matter the crit range you roll your confirmation right, well if that confirms a crit you roll to confirm it again. If all that works out you get an auto kill. :confused:

Now my 4th level Catfolk Scout/Ranger was triple crit killed last session. I had though it was due to the rare triple 20. Now I am wondering if I was just killed off on purpose... :headexplo

I know that the way an auto kill as our DM is ruling it is EXTREMELY powerful. I am figuring if ya can't beat her...use it against her...(I am now playing a 1st level Warmage) :evillaugh

~Armor of Heavy Fortification...no more crits on me, and a Keen rapier... :D

Oh yea that's another thing...the rest of the group is 4th and 5th level mixed...if one dies, thier new char is always 1st...what's up with that??

Any thoughts?
snowlynx
05-28-05, 09:52 AM You're not going to have fun, if this turns into player vs. DM. Consider this.
The group won't ressurect or raise your catfolk?

The rule you mentioned is much more dangerous to PCs then it is to Monsters, because, even though the PCs will be rolling more because they'll be in more fights, it's much more devestating to lose one PC then it is to lose one monster (out of hundreds of monsters fought.) I generally stray away from such rules in my game, as I don't want the PCs in my group dying. Sounds like your DM doesn't care as much about keepign PCs alive as I do....seems to be a standard opinion among DMs, but I think if you want to continue in the group you're going to have to learn to live with it. If you don't want to be affected by it too often, stay in the back of the group where monsters are unlikely to attack you.
Gingerbread Guy
05-28-05, 11:09 AM Any rule that makes combat deadlier is usually bad for the PCs. PCs in a normal game are going to face many more opponents and be the subject of many more attacks than nearly any creature in the entire game world. As the number of attacks they face increases, the chances of them getting tripple 20'ed increase.

I've never liked the "insta-kill crit" rules, although I had once considered using a variant. The problem is that its difficult to envision or describe in some situations. Someone's weasel familiar shouldn't be able to insta-kill a stone giant in one hit, for example. It seems to make more sense in the case of one human fighting another because we're fragile creatures, and no matter how many hit points you have, a spear to the brain is a spear to the brain. But in practice, it just doesn't compute.

Anyway, the main point here is that your DM is your DM. If something happens in his game, you just have to accept it. Try to be the bigger person, and don't make a character simply to get revenge or something. You're welcome to get armor of fortification - its obviously more valuable in his game, so I say go for it.. but try not to be bitter.

If he DID kill your character off, try to find out why without confronting him. Maybe he just didn't like your character.. maybe he was annoying. If you can avoid playing a character that the DM wants to kill at any given opportunity, I promise you everyone will have more fun. And thats what the game is about.

~Ginger
Super Guy
05-28-05, 12:24 PM You're definitely going to have to talk this one out with your DM. Sounds like a lot of unbalance is in this game.

First, find out if there was any reason that she had in killing your character. If not, can you get him raised?

Now, ask her about this insta-kill. This is ludicrous. A decent fighter can easily confirm three criticals with his highest attack. That means, PCs will be dropping like flies and:
a) won't have any money because they will be spending it all on resurrection, or
b) keep starting over on level one and never advance anywhere

If your DM doesn't realize how bad a plan she has, tell her. It's really stupid. Don't say it's really stupid, though it is. The odds that you'll live past level, say, five, are very small. And it's no fun to keep starting over, and it's no fun to be way below the party level. If it's no fun- LEAVE! The DM can't run you over if you're the game. Both parties, players and DM, need to sort this out.

Next... why the hell do you have Heavy Fortification on level 1? This is another big problem I see. Heavy Fortification costs at least 36k + base armor price. I don't want to see a PC toting this even at level 6, it's just crazy. Your DM probably has some big problems if she can't keep you guys balanced.

Edit: Reading over this I may have seemed sort of harsh. Sorry, that wasn't my intent, the internet just makes it look like that :)
Acirema
05-28-05, 12:25 PM I talked to our DM on why my Catfolk was offed, and she explained that she hated powergaming, and that that is what I was doing. I asked her to let me explain what feats and skills, weapons, armor , and equipment I took and why. After explaining all this to her, she still thought I was being to min/maxing... :confused: I had thought that a Catfolk with Catfolk Pounce and Expeditious Dodge was just a normal way to make a good skirmisher, especially when you were going from Ranger 2 and adding Scout levels...oh well.

My party lacks the funds, and also lacks a cleric for rezzing me, so on he groups behest I was asked to make a new char. I figured a good caster who could get our butts out of trouble, and also handle himself in melee would be good, so now I am a Warmage. :mage:

I am going to sit our DM down and ask her why she is using the triple threat auto kill instead of the triple 20 rule. Hopefully she'll see how much risk she is putting the PCs in and go a different, less deadly rout. Barring that I think that all of the group will opt for fortification armor after I get some. :ayyyy!:

I have learned that if ya have to, and it comes down to it...don't fight your DM, just use her tools and have fun;)
Lord Schpungus
05-28-05, 01:29 PM I talked to our DM on why my Catfolk was offed, and she explained that she hated powergaming, and that that is what I was doing. I asked her to let me explain what feats and skills, weapons, armor , and equipment I took and why. After explaining all this to her, she still thought I was being to min/maxing... :confused: I had thought that a Catfolk with Catfolk Pounce and Expeditious Dodge was just a normal way to make a good skirmisher, especially when you were going from Ranger 2 and adding Scout levels...oh well.

My party lacks the funds, and also lacks a cleric for rezzing me, so on he groups behest I was asked to make a new char. I figured a good caster who could get our butts out of trouble, and also handle himself in melee would be good, so now I am a Warmage. :mage:

I am going to sit our DM down and ask her why she is using the triple threat auto kill instead of the triple 20 rule. Hopefully she'll see how much risk she is putting the PCs in and go a different, less deadly rout. Barring that I think that all of the group will opt for fortification armor after I get some. :ayyyy!:

I have learned that if ya have to, and it comes down to it...don't fight your DM, just use her tools and have fun;)

Hammergun time. Your DM fabricated a triple threat autokill for the purpose of specifically killing off your character, because you made feat/skill/class choices that would help your character be who you want your character to be?

I'm all for working it out normally, but leave this game. It's not likely to get better, ever. Or, simply make your next character a human farmer (Commoner or Expert) whose family was slaughtered by goblins. Take only Skill Focus: Profession (Farmer) and Ability Focus (thresh grain). After all, that's what your DM wants your character to be like. Killing you off because you wanted usefulness in a character, dang.

As for the Start Over at 1st clause, maybe the DM just doesn't want to have to think up a challenge for PCs over 5th level? If you're all stuck with new characters repeating levels 1-5, then he doesn't have to do any work. Seriously, beat him with something soft and heavy. Then let him know that killing off your character because he thought you might be good at something is just plain mean, idiotic, and aggravating. Get him to change drastically, or get out.
The Man from Uncle
05-28-05, 02:29 PM Restarting at level 1 everytime you die? Ouch!

I have never seen or played by that rule before and I have no idea what the theory behind it is. Sure you'll go up levels quicker but for the most part you're going to just get killed more regularly. At this point (Quoting Thanatos02) 'Goku's Law' applies and the most powerful character will dominate and everyone else will struggle to keep up. I think that is a worse rule than triple-threat-death.

Now I am a pretty hardcore roleplayer (see link below to my new character) and I loath the psycological powergamer who just goes out of their way to be more powerful than anyone else. But to create (or at least enforce) a rule just to kill a character off? That's messy. You said your DM is a woman.....did this happen at a 'bad time' for her? If so approach her next week and see if she is more reasonable.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=436226
Sargon
05-29-05, 01:26 PM This might sound odd:
But as a house rule we've always played that if you roll in your crit range then you crit. and if you roll two natrual 20's then you auto kill. This is our house rule for D&D anyway. players and monsters have so many HP that its not as devesitating as all that.. infact it adds alittle something to the game i think.. your character suffers a grevious injury in combat.. and besides with healing spells and spells that can raise the dead its not to terrible.

Now.. in the SWRPG you have to confirm your crits because its on a viatility / wound point system.
Acirema
05-29-05, 03:03 PM Well we just had our gamming day...I came with my Warmage, level 1 :( ...and it is approved...Yay! Well the party is in a abondoned keep. I was told that I was not there, and I would be able to join in when they got back to town...

7 hours later...and after they'd gotten about 3, 500 exp each...they are done with the rooms and hallways and such, back in town. And that is where it stopped. :ahem:

Yup, I am not the happyiest player in the world, and when I do get put back in the campaign and I get into my 1st battle...I'm going off like Heroshema. :D

If I am allowed to last long enough I am going to get that Fortification Armor and play with the rules. ;)
Dragon4217
05-29-05, 03:25 PM GET OUT OF THIS GAME!

No DM should ever treat their players like that. Ever.

If a DM has powergamers, the first (note, FIRST) thing they do should be talk with the player. In the game, there are unique abilities that can be focused on...that's what makes heros. Powergaming is when a player pumps themselves up so much in one aspect that it becomes their character. I'm a DM, and I despise powergamers...but, instead of making houserules that kill off players (which keep the storyline going), I make houserules that reduce powergaming (like point buy stats, limiting treasure useful to the powergamer, etc.), or I take away the opportunity for a person to make use of their power move.

I had a guy with a super awesome AC in one game. At 17th level it was something like 54 or 56. Crazy. So, mages with touch attack spells, or area spells (he had no will/reflex save, he was just a tank).

Anyway, I really suggest finding another game. Nothing of what she did as a DM is good.
Thoronmir
05-29-05, 03:36 PM Well we just had our gamming day...I came with my Warmage, level 1 :( ...and it is approved...Yay! Well the party is in a abondoned keep. I was told that I was not there, and I would be able to join in when they got back to town...

7 hours later...and after they'd gotten about 3, 500 exp each...they are done with the rooms and hallways and such, back in town. And that is where it stopped. :ahem: I think most of the regulars on this forum will agree when I say that I'm not quick to reach for the hammergun, but this DM is begging for both barrels. :ahem:

First, she decides that you've excessively powergamed without giving you a legitimate opportunity to either defend or even alter your choices. Jesus Christ! If I have a problem with a PC's build, I don't concoct :censored: rules to kill off a PC ... I let the player know and recommend some slight tweaking to the build that will satisfy both his concept and my concerns.

Then, after knocking you back to 1st level because she didn't like your PC's build, she makes you wait seven hours and still never introduced your new PC. That would send me over the edge. I'd rather a DM boot me from the game than waste my time like that. I understand the need to work new PCs into the story, but she decided you needed a new PC ... it's not like she gave you choice. If she couldn't devise a logical reason for your Warmage to be in the keep, she's not working hard enough as a DM.Yup, I am not the happyiest player in the world, and when I do get put back in the campaign and I get into my 1st battle...I'm going off like Heroshema. :D

If I am allowed to last long enough I am going to get that Fortification Armor and play with the rules. ;)I could be misreading what you're saying here, but it sounds as if you intend to exploit the DM's rules to disrupt the game. If I'm wrong, please ignore the following chastisement. :D If I'm right, my best advice is DON'T! Don't waste your time (or the time of the other players) exacting revenge. Just move on and find a new game ... or start your own. Every minute you commit to this game simply delays your eventual fun in a game with a DM who respects his/her players.
Acirema
05-30-05, 06:35 PM Had another session today...

Well after about an hour of not being brought into the game I called up a few buddies and we (my buddies and I) began a new game.

I am still using my Warmage, though starting at 3rd lvl, ( :D ) so I have done this with my Warmage (in case ya'll are wondering...and for opinions on where to go with him. ;)

(As a side note My new DM allows the 3.0 Crit stacking, ie Keen and Imp Crit stacks, etc.)

Human(1st level only) changed to Necropolitan(undead, augmented)
Evolved undead(LA+1)
Warmage 3(gained a level during play)

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

Deity: Erythnul

Speed: 30

STR 14, DEX 14, CON-, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 20

Saves: Fort 0, Ref 3 Will 3 (+2 vs Control Undead)

AC: 20 (10+ Armor +5, Shield +2 DEX +2, Nat +1)

HP:30

Initiative: +2

BAB:1

Skills: Concentration: 11, Craft- Arms: 10, Knowledge- Arcana: 10, Search: 6, & Spellcraft: 10.

Feats: Spell Casting Prodigy, Precocious Apprentice, Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, & Bladeproof Skin.

Flaws: Meager Fortitude, & Murkey Eyed.

Fast healing:3
DR: 3/Bludgeoning
Undead Qualities

Spells per day: 0lvl-6, 1st lvl-7, 2nd lvl-1
Save DC:0lvl-14, 1st lvl-15, 2nd lvl- 16 (Evocation spell DC's are +2)

Equipment of note: Chain Shirt +1, Darkwood Buckler +1, Broach of Shielding, Achemist Fire (2), Masterwork Morningstar

The party consists of a Drow Wizard4, 1/2 Drow 1/2 Fiend(no classes yet Probably going Barbarian or Fighter), and a 1/2 fiend 1/2 human Favored Soul3

So any thoughts, suggestions or comments?

Thank you all for every bit of advice, I'd be lost without you.
Asmodai_00
05-31-05, 12:24 AM Now I am wondering if I was just killed off on purpose...

-5 points for bad DMing

Oh yea that's another thing...the rest of the group is 4th and 5th level mixed...if one dies, thier new char is always 1st...what's up with that??

-10 for not following the rules/suggestions in the DMG

I talked to our DM on why my Catfolk was offed, and she explained that she hated powergaming, and that that is what I was doing. I asked her to let me explain what feats and skills, weapons, armor , and equipment I took and why. After explaining all this to her, she still thought I was being to min/maxing... I had thought that a Catfolk with Catfolk Pounce and Expeditious Dodge was just a normal way to make a good skirmisher, especially when you were going from Ranger 2 and adding Scout levels...oh well.

My party lacks the funds, and also lacks a cleric for rezzing me, so on he groups behest I was asked to make a new char. I figured a good caster who could get our butts out of trouble, and also handle himself in melee would be good, so now I am a Warmage.

Gah. -30 for being a min/maxxing powertripping DM.

Well we just had our gamming day...I came with my Warmage, level 1 ...and it is approved...Yay! Well the party is in a abondoned keep. I was told that I was not there, and I would be able to join in when they got back to town...

7 hours later...and after they'd gotten about 3, 500 exp each...they are done with the rooms and hallways and such, back in town. And that is where it stopped.

Whoa whoa whoa. FLAG ON THE PLAY! -200 points, repeat first down!

I would have gave up after that night;

"Hey <dm name>, I just wanted to thank you for wasting the past 7 hours of my life because of your personal vendetta against me or my characters which you think are min/maxxed."

Afterwords I would also share a few choice words that would not be allowed on a public forum, give instructions on where her DMG should be, and storm out, never to return.

Sheesh. :nonono:
weasel fierce
05-31-05, 12:49 AM Nothing wrong with the game being deadly. It makes stupid people play better.

However, if the DM is deliberately stacking thigns against a specific character, then its time to talk about why everyone is playing the game.

As for waiting 7 hours, this guy or girl hates your guts. I'd consider quitting this game and either starting another, or finding another DM, because its going to be miserable, if someone insists on being a prick to you
Acirema
05-31-05, 01:06 AM Well with the new game that I joined, the DM is infinatly more expierienced, and know and follows the rules. I believe the only exception is usage of the commonly used Crit range multiplier stacking, ie Keen and Imp. Crit as per 3.0.

The group is smaller than the other one. The other group is 8 people, and the new one is 4 (including me). I am definatly having more fun with the new one as well. :D

As for the other DM, She works in my shop so I have to be a bit nice. (Army life)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Acirema 05-28-05, 05:33 AM	I have a question. Ya'll know the tripple 20 insta-death house rule right? Well that's what I thought our DM was doing. It turns out that it is like this: The first roll, if it crits, no matter the crit range you roll your confirmation right, well if that confirms a crit you roll to confirm it again. If all that works out you get an auto kill. :confused: Now my 4th level Catfolk Scout/Ranger was triple crit killed last session. I had though it was due to the rare triple 20. Now I am wondering if I was just killed off on purpose... :headexplo I know that the way an auto kill as our DM is ruling it is EXTREMELY powerful. I am figuring if ya can't beat her...use it against her...(I am now playing a 1st level Warmage) :evillaugh ~Armor of Heavy Fortification...no more crits on me, and a Keen rapier... :D Oh yea that's another thing...the rest of the group is 4th and 5th level mixed...if one dies, thier new char is always 1st...what's up with that?? Any thoughts?
snowlynx 05-28-05, 09:52 AM	You're not going to have fun, if this turns into player vs. DM. Consider this. The group won't ressurect or raise your catfolk? The rule you mentioned is much more dangerous to PCs then it is to Monsters, because, even though the PCs will be rolling more because they'll be in more fights, it's much more devestating to lose one PC then it is to lose one monster (out of hundreds of monsters fought.) I generally stray away from such rules in my game, as I don't want the PCs in my group dying. Sounds like your DM doesn't care as much about keepign PCs alive as I do....seems to be a standard opinion among DMs, but I think if you want to continue in the group you're going to have to learn to live with it. If you don't want to be affected by it too often, stay in the back of the group where monsters are unlikely to attack you.
Gingerbread Guy 05-28-05, 11:09 AM	Any rule that makes combat deadlier is usually bad for the PCs. PCs in a normal game are going to face many more opponents and be the subject of many more attacks than nearly any creature in the entire game world. As the number of attacks they face increases, the chances of them getting tripple 20'ed increase. I've never liked the "insta-kill crit" rules, although I had once considered using a variant. The problem is that its difficult to envision or describe in some situations. Someone's weasel familiar shouldn't be able to insta-kill a stone giant in one hit, for example. It seems to make more sense in the case of one human fighting another because we're fragile creatures, and no matter how many hit points you have, a spear to the brain is a spear to the brain. But in practice, it just doesn't compute. Anyway, the main point here is that your DM is your DM. If something happens in his game, you just have to accept it. Try to be the bigger person, and don't make a character simply to get revenge or something. You're welcome to get armor of fortification - its obviously more valuable in his game, so I say go for it.. but try not to be bitter. If he DID kill your character off, try to find out why without confronting him. Maybe he just didn't like your character.. maybe he was annoying. If you can avoid playing a character that the DM wants to kill at any given opportunity, I promise you everyone will have more fun. And thats what the game is about. ~Ginger
Super Guy 05-28-05, 12:24 PM	You're definitely going to have to talk this one out with your DM. Sounds like a lot of unbalance is in this game. First, find out if there was any reason that she had in killing your character. If not, can you get him raised? Now, ask her about this insta-kill. This is ludicrous. A decent fighter can easily confirm three criticals with his highest attack. That means, PCs will be dropping like flies and: a) won't have any money because they will be spending it all on resurrection, or b) keep starting over on level one and never advance anywhere If your DM doesn't realize how bad a plan she has, tell her. It's really stupid. Don't say it's really stupid, though it is. The odds that you'll live past level, say, five, are very small. And it's no fun to keep starting over, and it's no fun to be way below the party level. If it's no fun- LEAVE! The DM can't run you over if you're the game. Both parties, players and DM, need to sort this out. Next... why the hell do you have Heavy Fortification on level 1? This is another big problem I see. Heavy Fortification costs at least 36k + base armor price. I don't want to see a PC toting this even at level 6, it's just crazy. Your DM probably has some big problems if she can't keep you guys balanced. Edit: Reading over this I may have seemed sort of harsh. Sorry, that wasn't my intent, the internet just makes it look like that :)
Acirema 05-28-05, 12:25 PM	I talked to our DM on why my Catfolk was offed, and she explained that she hated powergaming, and that that is what I was doing. I asked her to let me explain what feats and skills, weapons, armor , and equipment I took and why. After explaining all this to her, she still thought I was being to min/maxing... :confused: I had thought that a Catfolk with Catfolk Pounce and Expeditious Dodge was just a normal way to make a good skirmisher, especially when you were going from Ranger 2 and adding Scout levels...oh well. My party lacks the funds, and also lacks a cleric for rezzing me, so on he groups behest I was asked to make a new char. I figured a good caster who could get our butts out of trouble, and also handle himself in melee would be good, so now I am a Warmage. :mage: I am going to sit our DM down and ask her why she is using the triple threat auto kill instead of the triple 20 rule. Hopefully she'll see how much risk she is putting the PCs in and go a different, less deadly rout. Barring that I think that all of the group will opt for fortification armor after I get some. :ayyyy!: I have learned that if ya have to, and it comes down to it...don't fight your DM, just use her tools and have fun;)
Lord Schpungus 05-28-05, 01:29 PM	I talked to our DM on why my Catfolk was offed, and she explained that she hated powergaming, and that that is what I was doing. I asked her to let me explain what feats and skills, weapons, armor , and equipment I took and why. After explaining all this to her, she still thought I was being to min/maxing... :confused: I had thought that a Catfolk with Catfolk Pounce and Expeditious Dodge was just a normal way to make a good skirmisher, especially when you were going from Ranger 2 and adding Scout levels...oh well. My party lacks the funds, and also lacks a cleric for rezzing me, so on he groups behest I was asked to make a new char. I figured a good caster who could get our butts out of trouble, and also handle himself in melee would be good, so now I am a Warmage. :mage: I am going to sit our DM down and ask her why she is using the triple threat auto kill instead of the triple 20 rule. Hopefully she'll see how much risk she is putting the PCs in and go a different, less deadly rout. Barring that I think that all of the group will opt for fortification armor after I get some. :ayyyy!: I have learned that if ya have to, and it comes down to it...don't fight your DM, just use her tools and have fun;) Hammergun time. Your DM fabricated a triple threat autokill for the purpose of specifically killing off your character, because you made feat/skill/class choices that would help your character be who you want your character to be? I'm all for working it out normally, but leave this game. It's not likely to get better, ever. Or, simply make your next character a human farmer (Commoner or Expert) whose family was slaughtered by goblins. Take only Skill Focus: Profession (Farmer) and Ability Focus (thresh grain). After all, that's what your DM wants your character to be like. Killing you off because you wanted usefulness in a character, dang. As for the Start Over at 1st clause, maybe the DM just doesn't want to have to think up a challenge for PCs over 5th level? If you're all stuck with new characters repeating levels 1-5, then he doesn't have to do any work. Seriously, beat him with something soft and heavy. Then let him know that killing off your character because he thought you might be good at something is just plain mean, idiotic, and aggravating. Get him to change drastically, or get out.
The Man from Uncle 05-28-05, 02:29 PM	Restarting at level 1 everytime you die? Ouch! I have never seen or played by that rule before and I have no idea what the theory behind it is. Sure you'll go up levels quicker but for the most part you're going to just get killed more regularly. At this point (Quoting Thanatos02) 'Goku's Law' applies and the most powerful character will dominate and everyone else will struggle to keep up. I think that is a worse rule than triple-threat-death. Now I am a pretty hardcore roleplayer (see link below to my new character) and I loath the psycological powergamer who just goes out of their way to be more powerful than anyone else. But to create (or at least enforce) a rule just to kill a character off? That's messy. You said your DM is a woman.....did this happen at a 'bad time' for her? If so approach her next week and see if she is more reasonable. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=436226
Sargon 05-29-05, 01:26 PM	This might sound odd: But as a house rule we've always played that if you roll in your crit range then you crit. and if you roll two natrual 20's then you auto kill. This is our house rule for D&D anyway. players and monsters have so many HP that its not as devesitating as all that.. infact it adds alittle something to the game i think.. your character suffers a grevious injury in combat.. and besides with healing spells and spells that can raise the dead its not to terrible. Now.. in the SWRPG you have to confirm your crits because its on a viatility / wound point system.
Acirema 05-29-05, 03:03 PM	Well we just had our gamming day...I came with my Warmage, level 1 :( ...and it is approved...Yay! Well the party is in a abondoned keep. I was told that I was not there, and I would be able to join in when they got back to town... 7 hours later...and after they'd gotten about 3, 500 exp each...they are done with the rooms and hallways and such, back in town. And that is where it stopped. :ahem: Yup, I am not the happyiest player in the world, and when I do get put back in the campaign and I get into my 1st battle...I'm going off like Heroshema. :D If I am allowed to last long enough I am going to get that Fortification Armor and play with the rules. ;)
Dragon4217 05-29-05, 03:25 PM	GET OUT OF THIS GAME! No DM should ever treat their players like that. Ever. If a DM has powergamers, the first (note, FIRST) thing they do should be talk with the player. In the game, there are unique abilities that can be focused on...that's what makes heros. Powergaming is when a player pumps themselves up so much in one aspect that it becomes their character. I'm a DM, and I despise powergamers...but, instead of making houserules that kill off players (which keep the storyline going), I make houserules that reduce powergaming (like point buy stats, limiting treasure useful to the powergamer, etc.), or I take away the opportunity for a person to make use of their power move. I had a guy with a super awesome AC in one game. At 17th level it was something like 54 or 56. Crazy. So, mages with touch attack spells, or area spells (he had no will/reflex save, he was just a tank). Anyway, I really suggest finding another game. Nothing of what she did as a DM is good.
Thoronmir 05-29-05, 03:36 PM	Well we just had our gamming day...I came with my Warmage, level 1 :( ...and it is approved...Yay! Well the party is in a abondoned keep. I was told that I was not there, and I would be able to join in when they got back to town... 7 hours later...and after they'd gotten about 3, 500 exp each...they are done with the rooms and hallways and such, back in town. And that is where it stopped. :ahem: I think most of the regulars on this forum will agree when I say that I'm not quick to reach for the hammergun, but this DM is begging for both barrels. :ahem: First, she decides that you've excessively powergamed without giving you a legitimate opportunity to either defend or even alter your choices. Jesus Christ! If I have a problem with a PC's build, I don't concoct :censored: rules to kill off a PC ... I let the player know and recommend some slight tweaking to the build that will satisfy both his concept and my concerns. Then, after knocking you back to 1st level because she didn't like your PC's build, she makes you wait seven hours and still never introduced your new PC. That would send me over the edge. I'd rather a DM boot me from the game than waste my time like that. I understand the need to work new PCs into the story, but she decided you needed a new PC ... it's not like she gave you choice. If she couldn't devise a logical reason for your Warmage to be in the keep, she's not working hard enough as a DM.Yup, I am not the happyiest player in the world, and when I do get put back in the campaign and I get into my 1st battle...I'm going off like Heroshema. :D If I am allowed to last long enough I am going to get that Fortification Armor and play with the rules. ;)I could be misreading what you're saying here, but it sounds as if you intend to exploit the DM's rules to disrupt the game. If I'm wrong, please ignore the following chastisement. :D If I'm right, my best advice is DON'T! Don't waste your time (or the time of the other players) exacting revenge. Just move on and find a new game ... or start your own. Every minute you commit to this game simply delays your eventual fun in a game with a DM who respects his/her players.
Acirema 05-30-05, 06:35 PM	Had another session today... Well after about an hour of not being brought into the game I called up a few buddies and we (my buddies and I) began a new game. I am still using my Warmage, though starting at 3rd lvl, ( :D ) so I have done this with my Warmage (in case ya'll are wondering...and for opinions on where to go with him. ;) (As a side note My new DM allows the 3.0 Crit stacking, ie Keen and Imp Crit stacks, etc.) Human(1st level only) changed to Necropolitan(undead, augmented) Evolved undead(LA+1) Warmage 3(gained a level during play) Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Deity: Erythnul Speed: 30 STR 14, DEX 14, CON-, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 20 Saves: Fort 0, Ref 3 Will 3 (+2 vs Control Undead) AC: 20 (10+ Armor +5, Shield +2 DEX +2, Nat +1) HP:30 Initiative: +2 BAB:1 Skills: Concentration: 11, Craft- Arms: 10, Knowledge- Arcana: 10, Search: 6, & Spellcraft: 10. Feats: Spell Casting Prodigy, Precocious Apprentice, Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, & Bladeproof Skin. Flaws: Meager Fortitude, & Murkey Eyed. Fast healing:3 DR: 3/Bludgeoning Undead Qualities Spells per day: 0lvl-6, 1st lvl-7, 2nd lvl-1 Save DC:0lvl-14, 1st lvl-15, 2nd lvl- 16 (Evocation spell DC's are +2) Equipment of note: Chain Shirt +1, Darkwood Buckler +1, Broach of Shielding, Achemist Fire (2), Masterwork Morningstar The party consists of a Drow Wizard4, 1/2 Drow 1/2 Fiend(no classes yet Probably going Barbarian or Fighter), and a 1/2 fiend 1/2 human Favored Soul3 So any thoughts, suggestions or comments? Thank you all for every bit of advice, I'd be lost without you.
Asmodai_00 05-31-05, 12:24 AM	Now I am wondering if I was just killed off on purpose... -5 points for bad DMing Oh yea that's another thing...the rest of the group is 4th and 5th level mixed...if one dies, thier new char is always 1st...what's up with that?? -10 for not following the rules/suggestions in the DMG I talked to our DM on why my Catfolk was offed, and she explained that she hated powergaming, and that that is what I was doing. I asked her to let me explain what feats and skills, weapons, armor , and equipment I took and why. After explaining all this to her, she still thought I was being to min/maxing... I had thought that a Catfolk with Catfolk Pounce and Expeditious Dodge was just a normal way to make a good skirmisher, especially when you were going from Ranger 2 and adding Scout levels...oh well. My party lacks the funds, and also lacks a cleric for rezzing me, so on he groups behest I was asked to make a new char. I figured a good caster who could get our butts out of trouble, and also handle himself in melee would be good, so now I am a Warmage. Gah. -30 for being a min/maxxing powertripping DM. Well we just had our gamming day...I came with my Warmage, level 1 ...and it is approved...Yay! Well the party is in a abondoned keep. I was told that I was not there, and I would be able to join in when they got back to town... 7 hours later...and after they'd gotten about 3, 500 exp each...they are done with the rooms and hallways and such, back in town. And that is where it stopped. Whoa whoa whoa. FLAG ON THE PLAY! -200 points, repeat first down! I would have gave up after that night; "Hey <dm name>, I just wanted to thank you for wasting the past 7 hours of my life because of your personal vendetta against me or my characters which you think are min/maxxed." Afterwords I would also share a few choice words that would not be allowed on a public forum, give instructions on where her DMG should be, and storm out, never to return. Sheesh. :nonono:
weasel fierce 05-31-05, 12:49 AM	Nothing wrong with the game being deadly. It makes stupid people play better. However, if the DM is deliberately stacking thigns against a specific character, then its time to talk about why everyone is playing the game. As for waiting 7 hours, this guy or girl hates your guts. I'd consider quitting this game and either starting another, or finding another DM, because its going to be miserable, if someone insists on being a prick to you
Acirema 05-31-05, 01:06 AM	Well with the new game that I joined, the DM is infinatly more expierienced, and know and follows the rules. I believe the only exception is usage of the commonly used Crit range multiplier stacking, ie Keen and Imp. Crit as per 3.0. The group is smaller than the other one. The other group is 8 people, and the new one is 4 (including me). I am definatly having more fun with the new one as well. :D As for the other DM, She works in my shop so I have to be a bit nice. (Army life)