Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Debonaire 03-15-06, 06:44 AM	G'day, I've lurked on these boards for a while but I needed help so I decided to take the plunge. As the title suggests my party and I are having trouble with a wizard. Not trouble per-say as a complete and utter loathing of this character! We have harassed and been harried by this wizard over continents, oceans, and even a brief foray into the elemental plane of fire. He has sent golems, tides of goblins and even a black dragon demi-god that he was controlling with a black dragon orb and another artifact after us. The killer thing is that we are on a tight timeframe to finish another extremely important quest. So enough is enough. We have him tracked to an underwater dome where he is setting up again and to be frank I want this to be the last encounter with this guy. The party consists mainly of a 13 Cleric, 12 Wizard and a 7/7 Sorcerer monk, with he possibility of a 12 ranger or 10 sorcerer depending on who shows up. We think the evil wizard is around level 16 as the last time we met he hit the wizard with a Power word:kill but was then killed (and returned via clone :mad: ) What I need is a bunch of dirty tricks that we can pull off to make the DM swear under his breath. I have already decided I am going to try doing nothing but counter spelling(if I am not being beat to death by a golem). But we have been warned that since he has encountered us every other time he has tried to set up shop that he has been preparing defenses solely for us. Thing is we can't kill him or he will just return as a clone again. So we need to take him alive or prevent his resurrection somehow.
Parker_W 03-15-06, 06:54 AM	G'day, I've lurked on these boards for a while but I needed help so I decided to take the plunge. As the title suggests my party and I are having trouble with a wizard. Not trouble per-say as a complete and utter loathing of this character! We have harassed and been harried by this wizard over continents, oceans, and even a brief foray into the elemental plane of fire. He has sent golems, tides of goblins and even a black dragon demi-god that he was controlling with a black dragon orb and another artifact after us. The killer thing is that we are on a tight timeframe to finish another extremely important quest. So enough is enough. We have him tracked to an underwater dome where he is setting up again and to be frank I want this to be the last encounter with this guy. The party consists mainly of a 13 Cleric, 12 Wizard and a 7/7 Sorcerer monk, with he possibility of a 12 ranger or 10 sorcerer depending on who shows up. We think the evil wizard is around level 16 as the last time we met he hit the wizard with a Power word:kill but was then killed (and returned via clone :mad:) What I need is a bunch of dirty tricks that we can pull off to make the DM swear under his breath. I have already decided I am going to try doing nothing but counter spelling(if I am not being beat to death by a golem). But we have been warned that since he has encountered us every other time he has tried to set up shop that he has been preparing defenses solely for us. Thing is we can't kill him or he will just return as a clone again. So we need to take him alive or prevent his resurrection somehow. It sounds like to me you arn't fighting the wizard, you are fighting the most powerful enemy of them all: your DM. Unlucky for you, your DM has a challenge rating of infinity.
Kraleck 03-15-06, 07:05 AM	If you want to kill him and keep him from "respawning," there is a metal that traps the soul of whatever dies while touching it (that includes the wielder, even if sheathed, unfortunately) until released into it's body via ressurection spells using the trapped soul as a component or dissipates through command. All you have to do is kill him with it first, then find his clones and destroy all (or all but one) of them and, voila, no more wizard.
Seeker95 03-15-06, 07:28 AM	In the actual combat, cast silence on your monk and have him grapple the wizard. That eliminates almost all of his spells (silence for verbal component spells and grapple for somatic component spells). Then, when you have him almost defeated (as in "unconscious"), use feeblemind on him. If you can find / commission / make a set of handcuffs of feeblmind that would be great. Keep him alive. An item of inflict minor wounds would be good too. Use it to keep him at one or two hit points. Set up a watch over your prisoner to wake him every hour or so. Do not let him get his spells back. Use detect thoughts to interrogate him to track down his remaining clones and other defenses. Eliminate those. Then kill him.
Judging Eagle 03-15-06, 11:11 AM	The silenced, flying invisible monk to grapple the wizard is perfect. Make sure that you use stuff to drop his stats with. Ray of enfeeblement; maximized and/or empowered should make him collapse. and since Str is a dump stat if you get him to 0-1 str he won't be able to even move due to encumberance from his own body wieght. Since there's no save or SR he'll fall to that pretty easy, you could also opt to use empowered rays and keep firing them until you roll a 6 on the d6 for str damage. blindness/deafness also is handy, bestow curse (cleric spell) can make take a -6 to one stat (use it on wisdom or con, then throw tons of fort save or will save spells, or use stat-draining poisons). Don't actually kill him. Never actually kill him, better you completely destroy his mind and have him die of old age than to kill him (placing him in Limbo or the Astral Plane would be ideal, if he ever leaves after enough time has passed he'll die of old age immediately). Combat tactics: Grab him with the sorc/monk; make sure the monk is both flying and invisible and carrying a stone with silence, keep the wizard grappled, then pinned (have the other non-casters assist the monk) then bound and gagged. Add masterwork manacles to complete the binding. Cast blindness/deafness on him until you can both blind and deafen him (once per effect). Cast empowered rays of enfeeblement; no SR, No save, but they only do d6+ 1/2 caster lvls (max +5) +1/2 of amount rolled for a max of 6 + 6 + 3 = 15; you can't stack the penalty but you can keep casting and rolling till you get a 6 and the last highest penalty will always remain (so if you get a 4 1st, then a 2 and a 1 and a 3, the 4 will still apply, but a 5 or 6 would preplace it). Cast bestow curse to drop his wis by 6; then repeat to drop his con and str. Use str/dex/int/wis poisons, not con or damage. Remember, shoot to incapacitate and then imprison him forever. Also, I'd reccomend keeping him unconsious all the time. Get a +1 merciful greataxe and coup de grace him on a regular basis. You won't kill him, but he'll never actually be awake. You could probably build a construct (look up the crap.. some ****** cr 2-3 construct) that would keep him out, and since he's manacled he's always helpless. Have him strapped to a bed that keeps him magically fed and 'bathroomed' and the construct with the merciful greataxe to keep him unconscious. Use det thoughts to find out if he has any allies that could free him, where his bases are, where his cloned bodies are etc. Also, Clone has a ****** duration and the clone can rot since it's not really alive, he must also have a cleric casting gentle repose on the clones or a specially made bed that casts the same.
Millennium 03-15-06, 11:28 AM	It sounds like the DM is doing a minor form of railroading here, in that he's Just not Going to Let This Wizard Die. Just remember that when you want to make the DM squirm, killing NPCs is only one means to the end. What really makes the DM squirm is when you do things that the DM didn't expect you to do. The DM clearly expects you to kill this guy; you've done it many times already. So if you insist on tracking down the wizard again, don't fight: talk. Go out for a drink somewhere and discuss matters. What does he want out of life? How on Earth did he get so many clones? Why did you start fighting in the first place? Do you even remember? Be friendly and gentle, knowing that even if you fight again on some other day, for this moment there can be peace between you. Then, when he's not looking, spike his drink with a love potion. Guaranteed DM-squirmage, or quadruple your GP back. WARNING: Not intended as a cure for vengeful DMs. Known side effects include alignment-slippage in Lawful and Good characters. If you are a paladin, consult with your high priest before using this solution. Patents pending absolutely nowhere.
SiouLubb 03-15-06, 01:18 PM	Flesh to Stone spell. (lvl 6) The subject isn't dead. Baleful Polymorph (lvl 5) after hitting him with a few things to lower his will save. And then you take very, very good care of your new pet. Of course, your DM will simply declare that the Wizard saves against these. Thus, I second the Monk with the Silence spell.
Rosisha 03-15-06, 01:45 PM	I'm with the first reply, this is just an idiot DM. I had a DM like this once many years ago. This is how we handled it: DM: "Rosisha, you're wizard has just been hit by a fireball. You take X damage. Record it." Me: "So Bob, how is life?" DM: "RECORD THE DAMAGE." Me: "Oh I'm sorry, I don't take damage from uber powerful bad guys meant to kill us without any chance of us doing anything." Well that caused the arguement and we all put our character sheets down and explained we were angry, we didn't like the game, and we didn't like that he had ignored our input over and over again. We didn't like being manipulated when we were supposed to be the manipulators (manipulating the world around us with our actions and characters, not being maniuplated by the world). We told him him that if he wants to play that way then he doesn't need us, he just needs a few stuffed scarecrows or manicans (we used another object, but as this is a polite public forum I will not put that up) and then he can just recite his story line and he will be happy. Suddenly the attack vanished and we were all happy again. He never did it again. Try that approach. Rosisha
Vennettai 03-16-06, 03:21 PM	it sounds to me like the dm is playing the wizard the way he should be played that is intelligently. the wizard has contingency plans. can you fault your dm for thinking how to get away from you guys if he gets in a pickle. what you should do is find his clones first kill them then go after the wizard. im sure that there just sitting somewere. unattended or if your dm is really railroading. there being guarded by some high lvl lackey with the power to destroy you.
Morotis 03-16-06, 04:30 PM	G'day What are you? British? Australian? Polish? I support the invisible, flying, silenced rock carrying, grappling monk of spellcaster doom! Lighting yourself on fire and hugging him would definitly anger the DM. Also, just drop every quest or adventure you're currently on and cash in all your gear to buy houses in the country or forest or mountains. Essentially, retire! Then if the Wizard continues to attack you after you've done nothing to provoke him or his plans, then you know the DM is just using the Wizard as a road block their to **** you off even when you're not trying to travel down a road...
BlackMoria 03-16-06, 05:03 PM	Lots of options. Easiest is battle the sucker down to between 0 and -9 hit points, stablize him, feeblemind him, then cut out his tongue and cut off his hands and heal him up. Let your imagine run riot. Just remember...revenge is a dish best served cold.
Varia 03-16-06, 08:42 PM	Sounds like an intelligent wizard being played with.... intelligence! So you need to get nasty in return. Capture and crippling is a good option, as has been mentioned. Thats been pretty well covered by other people, so the only thing I have to add to that is a bit of level draining if you have the ability and alignment/motivation to do so. Be aware that he is likely aware of such tactics and may have prepared some method of suicide to escape it, so do what you can to detect and foil such things. Hunting down and destroying his clones is a good idea too. Be aware that as a golem builder they are likely guarded by golems at least, but you should be able to deal with that. As to preventing resurrection, someone mentioned a metal that can prevent that. But also tthe spell "Soul Bind" (wiz/sorc/cler 9) that can do the same thing, and it doesnt have the dangerous potential side-effect one the holder that the metal does. If you can aquire a scroll with that spell and an 18-20k black sapphire you can try that option after you've stripped/feebleminded/doomed/etc him to hose his saving throw. No idea about the availability of such things in your campaign to know if thats practical or not. Although personally I'm in favor of the love potion thing myself. Simple, elegant, and squirm-inducing; whats not to like? :) *Hugs* Varia
Karma 03-16-06, 10:44 PM	Maybe its just me, but when I kill stuff, I expect it to stay dead. It can come back as undead but by then it is either not my problem or I kill it again, with fire. In the case of a lich, the undead that just keeps dying, I expect him to come back. Its like a friendly game of ping-pong... but a 16th level wizard that is expending all his energy on killing your party? Did you freak his sister at a festival or something? That just seems way over the top to me. Be that as it may, the flaming monk of silence seems like a great plan. If after all that work to incapacitate him and systematicly remove all his contingencies so he is no longer hunting you down and chasing you across the globe, he still manages to get out and give you a hard time or his apprentice seeks vengence, you know that you are playing against the DM. At that point, get some roofies, drug his drink. When he becomes incapacitated, shave his head, draw a Hitler moustache on him, take him down to the subway station and hand-cuff him to a train. There is a huge difference between playing an NPC smart and DM metagaming. Unfortunately, the mile-wide line is often blurred by people trying to compensate for their own inferiority. Just keep in mind that in the real world, the DM is outnumbered and if the DM is going to metagame then the Players have every right to metagame... unfortunately, that kills half the game.
kelvinaw273 03-17-06, 12:20 AM	There used to be an item called a helm of opposite alignment, that would do the trick. Otherwise the options of talking to him, destroying his intelligence etc. should work. Rack up spells to counter his spells and strip away his defences, use the invisible/flying monk to stop him casting, and don't kill him. Petrification has its advantages, you could leave him somewhere he wouldn't be found for a while. Use stoneshape to change his form as well, and you could be laughing.
ChimericPhase 03-17-06, 12:58 AM	If you have them, cast them in the following order: Flesh to Stone Tansmute Rock to Mud Transmute Mud to Rock Stone to Flesh. 1. None of the spells cause damage. You have not killed the wizard. 2. You now have a human pudding. Congratulations. Enjoy your new pet.
Judging Eagle 03-17-06, 11:33 AM	If you have them, cast them in the following order: Flesh to Stone Tansmute Rock to Mud Transmute Mud to Rock Stone to Flesh. 1. None of the spells cause damage. You have not killed the wizard. 2. You now have a human pudding. Congratulations. Enjoy your new pet. I've got one better, and faster. Flesh to Stone Shatter Let's see him rebuild himself or re-emerge as a clone of himself while there are still chunks of his original self. The cut the tounge and sever the hands or arms is nice. Remember to gouge his eyes out and perforate his eardrums and fill them with cement, or use blindness/deafness. Keep him strapped to your hips at all times and make sure that he's well-guarded. You want to keep your eyes on him forever until he dies of old age. Too bad haste doesn't make people age anymore.
Malakai_Demonos 03-17-06, 03:02 PM	It sounds like you have an intelligent DM, be proud of him and keep him as a friend forever. But seriously, that is a way a powerful Wizard should be played. Plus when you can hate an NPC and not hate the DM for it, that is an awsome job on the part of the DM and the Players. When you do finally capture the wizard make sure to put him in some heavy armor for that penalty to everything he does and the ASF. Splint mail is nice if you are low on money or maybe drawven battle plate if you have any. This will hender him incredibly when he tries to get lose from your ropes, chains, and shackles. Also make sure to blind fold him. Plus, a wizard who is gaged and bound has no chance of casting any spell with verbal or somatic components. Once you have him bound, talk with him. Get to know him, you could just make a new friend.
Judging Eagle 03-17-06, 06:22 PM	Yeah, convincing him that a partnership is probably for the best will screw with your DM and maybe the wizard will work with you. I've known DMs to have these powerful NPCs meet up with the PCs only to have the PCs join the NPCs organization.
lastcurse 03-17-06, 06:30 PM	If you get to fight the wizard personally, have the monk or someone grapple him. Grappled wizard = dead wizard.
KnightErrant 03-17-06, 06:59 PM	I vote for using Phantasmal Assaillant to make his will and reflex really bad then subdual until knock-out, put him in full plate with shield, gag him and keep subduling him. Phantasmal Assaillant is in the Spell Compendium
WhiteRaven810 03-17-06, 08:11 PM	I like the idea of locking this bastard away, perhaps on a personal demi-plane. However if this DM is the dick he appears to be, this Wizard will escape. Clones, minions, golems. Your DM will find an excuse. Destroy his mind. Find a way to melt it. I would recommend trying Enfleblement mixed with Permancy, but I know Permancy does not function that way and your Dungeon Master isn't going to cut you any slack. Then I thought of removing his fingers and tongue (a permant way to fix Verbal and Somatic Spells). But I'm sure some place their's a regeneration spell. And then there's that damn Silent Spell feat (and it's twin whose name I cannot recall). I got it. Cut out his tongue and bind his hands/remove his fingers. Strap him to a table. Use a magical device to drop his Intelligence and Wisdom to zero. You just put him in a coma. Kudos. Then, if you have some time, gold, and experience, you may want to safeguard the area. Set up a few magical traps, contruct contructs, and if possible, find the controling device to his Sheild Guardian. Any Wizard worth his weight in spell compotents has a Sheild Guardian. Order the Guardian (and Golems) to guard the room. Then the only hurdle is keeping the Wizard alive. Two solutions leap to mind, the ring that keeps the carrier alive (cannot recall the name), or have the Guardian feed him. But then you have to continually supply this underwater fortress with fodder. Two draw backs. First this is going to require the resources of a small nation, and second, your Dungeon Master is still going to give you a hand job and rule the Wizard some how escapes. P.S. - Please post after the show down and tell us how things ended up happening.
WhiteRaven810 03-17-06, 08:22 PM	Flesh to Stone Shatter I got one faster. Flesh to Stone Hammer No not the spell Hammer (which probably doesn't exist). An actual hammer. As in a blunt object with a handle. As in crack your new Wizard statue in the head with it. Or hell, take your dagger and a hammer to create chips and scarring over the Wizards stone body. A few around his forearm and upper leg, a good handful across the neck (right under the adams apple), and a nice line from hip to shoulder across the spine. If a Clone uses Stone to Flesh, the Wizard is either dead, paralyzed, or strengthless.
Morotis 03-17-06, 08:38 PM	If you have them, cast them in the following order: Flesh to Stone Tansmute Rock to Mud Transmute Mud to Rock Stone to Flesh. 1. None of the spells cause damage. You have not killed the wizard. 2. You now have a human pudding. Congratulations. Enjoy your new pet. As much as I love this solution, It's impossible. :( This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud. I'm sure a statue counts as worked...
jedimaster 03-17-06, 08:45 PM	Check with the Ranger but if he knows it then find all the clones and have him cast Drown on all the Clones. Then Flesh to Stone on the Wizard followed up with Fly to send him up to the top of the Dome and let it and him expire. :evillaugh
Kyuketsukiouji 03-17-06, 09:56 PM	I am mildly surprised by the amount of negative comment towards the DM. We're talking about a 16th-or so level wizard here. Someone of massive intellect. And, unsurprisingly, the character is well-played. He uses minions, he sets up contingencies, and he's hard to kill. Am I the only one who thinks that that's how a 16th level character should act? In a nonepic setting, this guy is 4 levels away from perfection. Why should he be acting like an idiot and getting himself killed off easily? ANd why would you be angry at the DM for playing a highly intelligent, powerful wizard like a highly intelligent powerful wizard? Are the PCs the only ones that are allowed to be successful in your games? As for disposing of the wizard, both plans sound good to me, so I'd say, use them both. Send the monk with Silence at him, and while he's trying to tie the wizard up and keep him busy, get his saves down, and Flesh to Stone him. Be careful to have Arcane Sight up, to check for protections against transmutation, spell turning spells or items, or contingencies, since you'll have to get rid of all of those first. Make sure your Cleric and your Wizard have plenty of Dispel Magic spells to strip away defencive spells and turn off magic items, make sure your monk doesn't give your enemy the chance to do damage, and do everything you can to make your opponent fail his save. Since it's such a critical battle, you might even want to use spells like Limited Wish to knock his save even lower, even though it costs xp. If you do manage to turn your enemy into statuary, my suggestion is to simply find somewhere to bury the statue in after casting Sequester on it.
Always-Late 03-17-06, 11:38 PM	Hire some level 8-10 wizards who have memorized nothing but heightened cantrips and have taken improved counterspell. There must be some of them out there. Alternatively, just have them spam dispel magic as a counterspell as well. Have them follow you around and stand by to counterspell anything of fourth level or lower. In addition, bring a bunch of warriors and ballistas with you (maybe forty), or at least heavy crossbows. Casting becomes mildly annoying when you have to make a DC 32 concentration check to cast anything. Your hired counterspellers can keep the fireballs and cloudkills away from your level 5 warriors. Oh, and if you haven't got Mind Blank, get it. And keep it up all day.
Karma 03-18-06, 12:59 PM	I am mildly surprised by the amount of negative comment towards the DM. We're talking about a 16th-or so level wizard here. Someone of massive intellect. And, unsurprisingly, the character is well-played. He uses minions, he sets up contingencies, and he's hard to kill. Am I the only one who thinks that that's how a 16th level character should act? In a nonepic setting, this guy is 4 levels away from perfection. Why should he be acting like an idiot and getting himself killed off easily? ANd why would you be angry at the DM for playing a highly intelligent, powerful wizard like a highly intelligent powerful wizard? Are the PCs the only ones that are allowed to be successful in your games? {SNIP} I have no problem with a high level wizard thinking and acting like a high level wizard. What I do have a problem with is a DM playing against his players and metagaming. Personally, I find it far fetched that a high level wizard has taken such an interest in a mid level party for no apparent reason other that to be a antagonist. While I think that it is a sloppy story that leads me to suspect that the DM is being a tool and playing AGAINST his players, I could be completely wrong about that. Some of us have just had some really bad DMs. When I hear of an adventure where the PCs seem to be constantly harassed with little or no provocation, I become very suspicious of the DM.
Auburn 03-18-06, 02:43 PM	Get a Wish or a Miracle. Spend some serious time thinking about how to word it so it can't be twisted. Either Wish your party or the Wizard into Ravenloft.
KnaveofClubs 03-18-06, 02:49 PM	I would prefer to hire some invevitables to go after him or just in some way capture him in one of the methods stated above and give him a geas for him not to return (or geas to prevent him from attacking you ever again, be it directly or indirectly). This doesn't inlude the many spells and items that can trap his soul, prevent ressurection, or just keep him from ever bothering you again. A nasty item to pull on him might be Mirror of Opposition, just imagine the look on your DMs face when the wizard always gets to fight himself before facing you. You can turn it around and start harassing him. Kill him enough and the level loss from cloning will make him weaker than you.
taradusis 03-18-06, 05:50 PM	Find your worlds best assassin guild and tell them there's an "unkillable"wizard who keeps haunting your footsteps,get a price quote and get them to reduce it by challanging their professional pride.