Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JadeReaver 05-18-06, 04:04 PM	I've been a long time D&D player, and I'm usually pretty philosphical about getting killed. Character death can happen, even in the most balanced of encounters. However, I have a character that has kicked a couple times now, and I'm starting to lose interest in running him. The sad part is that he was a pretty fun character to run, and I certainly don't feel the need to be the powerhouse of the group, but there comes a point where it just gets old. First, Ogre Pirates punched my ticket . . . resulting in my character's corpse (what was left of it)being thrown in the Haversack until the party could find someone to resurrect me . . . then a bad run in with an Alchemical Golem . . . beware of death by Golem. It is a harsh and glamorless demise. Have you ever had an experience with a character that you just couldn't seem to keep alive? Is Charon telling you to cash in your frequent flyer miles? Do you spend so much time in the afterlife, that you decided to buy a Summer house there? Basically my question is does it bother you when your characters die, even if resurrection or raise dead is fairly accessable? Do you start to lose interest in the campaign if your once favorite character can't seem to survive what the DM seems to be throwing at the party, or doesn't it bother you at all? Share your experiences and views.
Witch 05-18-06, 04:11 PM	It depends - am I losing levels because of the resurrection or not? Are Deus Ex Machinas being used? Am I obviously ineffective? If the answer to one of these three cases is yes, then I dislike frequent death, yes.
Dragonsblood 05-18-06, 05:10 PM	No matter the DM/GM, no matter the game (DnD, L5R, and Shadowrun), I tend to be pretty good at keeping my characters alive. I've only had one character death, which was during a TPK and I've been playing RPGs since about '98.
Bulletproof_Condom 05-18-06, 05:39 PM	You know, to get ressurected, the soul has to be willing. It would be perfectly reasonable for a character to simply give up after his seventh or eighth death with a loud, spectral, "Screw you guys, I'm going home." Once that's done, the party can recruit a new member (you again) that's more survivable. Play a barbarian with Brutal Throw and Power Throw with a haversack full of orc shot puts. All the hit points and none of the melee. ...or would it be orc shots put? Whatever, just make sure some of them are special materials.
OravennasBrother 05-18-06, 06:37 PM	IT depends. Once, back in college, I had a character die by Bullette (landshark) ambush. The Character never had a chance. But the death occured about 15 minutes before I had to leave for a date so I shrugged, told the DM I'd be back the next week and left. Another time I had a Character murdered by another PC - "cause he wanted my character's stuff" - and was pretty irate; particularly since the DM had stressed how I neede to create a team player who the party could trust. The other PC was run by the DM's twin brother. Still not sure which one was Bart. :rolleyes: The only other character deaths I've been through have all been in deadly systems (Rolemaster criticals anybody) and involved serious deviation by the dice. But play enough in dangerous systems (3.X is that dangerous only at low or very high levels) where a single attack has a realistic chance of killing a character and you lose a few.
Arem_K 05-18-06, 06:53 PM	...or would it be orc shots put? Whatever, just make sure some of them are special materials. Shot puts. It seems like you are just having a run of bad luck. If the previous experiences have made you come to dislike the character, roll another.
JadeReaver 05-18-06, 07:13 PM	Now don't get me wrong. Death happens, and my first death was largely a run of bad luck. I've DM'd quite a bit as well, and while I am very careful to balance the encounters, death can still occur once in a while. My second was pretty much the DM being an idiot (we had two DMs running the campaign at the time, the idiot is not longer with our group). Level loss does become annoying (though the first wasn't that bad, but the second puts me behind even more adding to my obviously poor survival chances.) I know I could simply say my spirit doesn't want to come back, and that should be my complete perogative. I just don't want to be a whiner . . . and yes, I realize its too late for that, but whatdoyado? :P BTW, thanks for the feedback so far.
Pangeon 05-18-06, 07:26 PM	I (so far...) haven't had any of my characters die, but one of the players character's keep making stupid decisions and dying. First time, when the party was fleeing in terror from the colossal monstrous centipede, he (dwarf fighter,) decides to try and help out the treant that's getting its *** handed to it. (Even the INT 4 paladin was smart enough to run. His character was cut in two. Second time, (this time he's an orc fighter,) our party was being assailed by dissapearing knives from nowhere in our inn room. So, he jumps out the window. The second story window. The assassian (shadowdancer whisper gnome: +27 to hide,) is just making their escape as his character makes it up the stairs to join the combat. DM: :evillaugh: What's the sneak attack damage for a 10th level rogue? (Our party was 5th level.) Party: :eek: His player: :weep: The best part is the attack wouldn't have killed him if he hadn't jumped out the window. His new character hasn't joined the campaign yet, but I'm looking forward to seeing if the trend continues. :D
solbergb 05-18-06, 09:36 PM	I've been a long time D&D player, and I'm usually pretty philosphical about getting killed. Character death can happen, even in the most balanced of encounters. However, I have a character that has kicked a couple times now, and I'm starting to lose interest in running him. The sad part is that he was a pretty fun character to run, and I certainly don't feel the need to be the powerhouse of the group, but there comes a point where it just gets old. First, Ogre Pirates punched my ticket . . . resulting in my character's corpse (what was left of it)being thrown in the Haversack until the party could find someone to resurrect me . . . then a bad run in with an Alchemical Golem . . . beware of death by Golem. It is a harsh and glamorless demise. Usually I spend a lot of time thinking about what could have been done differently to prevent the death. In 3.x, I play a lot but have actually had only two deaths...one was a failed attempt to rescue the rest of the party from slavers, solo. The bad guys planned better for me than I planned for them, and were more ruthless in pursuit than I was in trying to get away. This was a "roleplay" death not a "mechanical" death - it wasn't the build, it was the character-driven decisions that I made that lead to the death. At the time, I thought it was permanent too, but we had a very, very good diplomat in the party, who managed to end up somehow allied with the slavers after weeks of working on them... The other death was a "mechanical" death, the character having a role of poking his head into dangerous areas because he can almost always survive well enough to escape back to the party without rescuing. The flaw was that he'd lost the ability to resist grapples from a good grappler due to level scaling and I hadn't realized this yet....so he needed rescuing, which worked, then I went back in to rescue someone rescuing me, upshot, everyone but me lived...That one spent his next feat on something that would have prevented that particular death. He's also been a bit more careful poking his head into things after he's advanced a few levels, but before he's gotten "used" to the new danger thresholds.
Tristan 05-18-06, 10:34 PM	hmm, I've never had a character die, but we've never gotten past the 3rd session of a game. of course, people have died, just not me. it DOES **** me off when I race just far enough from the front lines, succeed to make a ride check to dismount as a free action, and then heal your ally from -9hp (his turn is next) and then after that session he decides to commit seppuku and change characters. ANYWAYS, I think being able to say "oh no, not again" after coming back to life for the elevendy seventh time would be cool. I think in exaulted deeds there is someone who has dedicated 17 lives to his cause.
Duvanok 05-19-06, 01:46 AM	I've died a lot, thanks mostly to a very rough DM. Out of all my characters only one has been resurrected. I hated it. It was like being beaten at chess but then the guy who beat you says, "would you like to take back your last couple of moves?" It felt. . . hollow somehow. Like I had already "lost" but was allowed to keep playing anyway. As a result, I have to have a lot invested in a character to want to bring him back.
Another Gnome 05-19-06, 02:27 AM	There's a fairly high mortality rate in games I play, but it's no big deal. Without active DM cheating it's a statistical necessity to get characters killed sooner or later, and most likely in the middle where instant kill effects become accessible but the countermeasures aren't there quite yet. Anyway, as a rule of thumb it's three strikes and you're out. That's not to say we have a house rule on the number of resurrections or anything, but that where dying once is bad and twice is awkward, the third time around it's plain ridiculous (it's good to see others have the same idea, by the way). Of course, we still try to raise dead characters if we can only afford it, but even if the habitual corpse does come back to life, after that point it's usually to grab his remaining stuff (part of which was sold to pay for the spell) and retire with hugs and kisses. That's a handy way to keep the gear value of the party from going through the roof every time a new member shows up (there are only so many naked prisoners thankful for their rescue one can use to that end, especially if the replacement is a player-controlled character).
was_fired 05-19-06, 02:40 AM	Death can be very discouraging for players. They get really into a character and then BOOM death. Ressurection never really fills that void since you as a player still feel like the character lost something. That said I am a killer DM. My last campaign ran one year with five players and resulted in fourteen character deaths. The list and causes are as follows (yes I record this stuff): Archer: 1. Critted by a construct wielding a large greatsword and failed his saving throw versus massive damage. Artificer: Played by Fighter (1)’s player after the character was retired 1. Killed by construct wielding a large greatsword after he walked into melee with it. Cleric: 1. Fireballed while sleeping outside of town with zombie 2. Incinerated by fire burst from illithid 3. Killed by demon’s using produce flame. Body destroyed via empowered fireballs. Paladin: 1. Damage caused by share pain while unconscious 2. Fighting off umber hulks while the rest of the party was confused or temporarily out of the fight. Fighter (1): 1. Killed due to teleportation error after being knocked out by demons using produce flame. 2. Killed by the same class of demons using produce flame. Fighter (2): Played after the Cleric’s player after the character was retired 1. Killed by a slightly more evil version of the party’s former cleric, his former character. 2. Killed in order to allow his soul to be unpossessed by the dark god that bound him. Wizard: 1. Killed by a slightly more evil version of the party’s former cleric. 2. Killed in order to allow his soul to be unpossessed by the dark god that bound him. 3. Took the path of power instead of the path of life in the last session. His disintegrate was bounced back at him by the epic guardian of the path.
hmmmm 05-19-06, 06:51 AM	Cleric: 1. Fireballed while sleeping outside of town with zombie Why was he sleeping with a zombie? Is he a necrophiliac?
Kuraito 05-19-06, 09:23 AM	I have had one character that just seemed to beg to be killed. A human swashbucker/fighter/duelist. I wasn't the most uber person in the world i will readily admit, but for some reason, I was always attacked the most (wasn't the only on in melee either), always failed the most saves, just bag luck, lots of it. I died alot, but I didn't feel to bad, I was atleast useful. The party dubbed me "Fall Guy" as whenever something remotly bad would happen, it would happen to my character. As such, I kept bad things from happening to my allies. My pain was there gain.
jasper 05-19-06, 10:02 AM	no does not bother me. Sometimes it becomes fun to see if I die tonight. Murr start out 5th level fighter. Over the years he has died 6 times. 4 times in one game calendar year. About 4 months real time.
Mnky 05-19-06, 10:29 AM	I don't mind it when characters die that much, making new characters is fun. We play with vp/wp and a no ressurections rule, as raising the dead can spoil decent murder mysteries and takes the stress out of combat. In a different game I DM at school there's a sort of if-you-die-more-than-four-times-you-need-a-better-character rule, as dying repeatedly isn't fun.
Feeb 05-19-06, 11:10 AM	Basically my question is does it bother you when your characters die, even if resurrection or raise dead is fairly accessable? Do you start to lose interest in the campaign if your once favorite character can't seem to survive what the DM seems to be throwing at the party, or doesn't it bother you at all? Share your experiences and views. The DM should be generating encounters which are appropriate and challenging for the group. Not just one or two players in the group, but everyone at the table. Sometimes this means more skill-based encounters for the resident skill monkey, or encounters geared to combinations of abilties possesed by support classes. If a player feels like their losing interest, they should bring it up with the DM away from the table. DM might not be aware of how the player is feeling. That said, I once ran a rather large hack'n'slash, beer and pretzels campaign for a party of about 7 or so (actually had ~10 players who would attend for various lengths of time). In that campaign, character death was rather common, but D&D as presented in core isn't balanced for that large a group (and everyone was aware of this.) Now, if you are playing a Mythos based game, well, in those circumstances, I as a player, look forward to a tenacle'd filled demise, that's half the fun. Cheers!
Tristan 05-19-06, 02:06 PM	Why was he sleeping with a zombie? Is he a necrophiliac? he was sleeping outside of town using the zombies as guards. To bad they arent capable of dealing with a spellcaster 400ft away huh?
Cerebrit 05-19-06, 03:17 PM	My DND group is for the most part, inexperienced, and sometimes it is funny, but the problem is, they never put in time to find ressurection possibilities since they are all low levels. Another problem is, since it takes time to find someone to ressurect a comrad, the dead player would complain like there is no tomorrow, so if you're in a group of novice players, dying REALLY sucks. Thankfully I havn't died yet, but thats only because I had a rediculously strong character. But my point is, at low levels, it seems when you have to make a new character, the character dies because it is 1st level! (My group sucks at protecting each other.... my group just sucks....but they're my friends all the same)
Nephlite 05-19-06, 05:08 PM	Have you ever had an experience with a character that you just couldn't seem to keep alive? Is Charon telling you to cash in your frequent flyer miles? Do you spend so much time in the afterlife, that you decided to buy a Summer house there? Basically my question is does it bother you when your characters die, even if resurrection or raise dead is fairly accessable? Do you start to lose interest in the campaign if your once favorite character can't seem to survive what the DM seems to be throwing at the party, or doesn't it bother you at all? Share your experiences and views. It bothers me when it seems the DMis always targetting me first. like the Spectrer that attack out of the Blue in the center of Town. He decided to attack me. I'm cool with being attacked in battle, but targeting me like that felt robbed. So I'm cool with death as long as it made sense/no grudges/ not fair chance.
FeceMan 05-19-06, 06:34 PM	The only time my character has died was once in a TPK--rules mess up there--and when the GM decided that an ogre mage who was levitating over us fell square on top of me.
devilin_west 05-19-06, 06:35 PM	I've got to say i don't mind dying too much if the character is fun to play. I ran a drunkard of a bard for a while that was quite fun to run. Particuarlly because of how the rest of the party encountered him sitting drunk in the middle of a cave screaming a rendition of "why can't we be freinds" while only 200 ft away were goblins ready to kill, with the bard slowly staggering towards them unknowingly. Now all im saying is that as long as the character is fun to play, it doesnt really matter how many times he dies.
Solidcobra 05-19-06, 09:07 PM	I agree with Duvanok. (13 and counting now, Duvanok) To me, getting ressed feels a lot like "yeah, wanna take a few turns back?". And I know something about character death because of bloodthirsty DMs. Then again, what feels worse is to just throw a beloved character away because, yeah, the cleric didn't want to ress you (or you were the cleric and they didn't want to pay an NPC). That just feels cold. I probably get too attached to my chars though.
dragonseth 05-19-06, 11:39 PM	Death doesn't bother me. It's actually inevitable with my guys. I have a bad habit of making them as strong as possible, so the temptation to kill is most definitely there. It's kind of like a dare sometimes. "I dare to you to get by my 50 some odd AC, 30 DR, 600 some odd hit points, magic immunity blah blah blah."
Ared Du'kel 05-20-06, 12:45 AM	Character Deaths? I've had my share. It's one of the reasons I DM more than play, now. Except in very specific campaigns. Not to age me too much, but I played back when 2nd edition first came out. I made the mistake of kidnapping one of the player's brides the night of the wedding. Over the course of the campaign, the player had to deal with his betrothed constantly being moved from place to place and chasing her down yet again. (It kinda made the whole story arc of the campaign, actually.) Well, this player got revenge the only way he knew how. He killed my characters every chance he got. What made this even worse was that I was the only player killed in the course of the entire campaign, which ran for fifteen months. Each of my characters was killed in a cruel and unusual way, too. For instance, my first character, a female wood elf fighter (played completely as a barbarian for the record) was kidnapped during the adventure and stuffed into a crate and shipped off into slavery. The party caught the ship, but sunk it with me still in the crate. Yes, other player's fault, but still. I took it in stride and made the typical Drizzt Do'urden drow gone good character. I was quickly made party leader (usually was with this group), but I was first level. Fine, whatever. Second adventure I was in, my group was captured by drow while traveling near their lands. I was singled out, being drow, and was killed by the high priestess for my insubordination. The rest of the party was miraculously saved by an NPC and spirited away magically. RIGHT after I was killed. New character. Female paladin. Once again, made the party leader. I was killed during a major battle I was directing by a SILVER dragon on MY side landing on me. No rolls, no nothing. I stated where I was, and the DM had the dragon land on me because it was the best place to land. THAT's when I started to get mad - I mean, EVERYONE knew that's where I was. We talked about it, and I agreed to stay. Next character. I'm making a level one character in a sixth level party. (DM's rule for new characters - they start at first level. I was the ONLY one who had to make use of the rule, being the only one who died. We had a pretty standard group.) Obviously, making a melee warrior wasn't an option, so I made a ranger. Taken out by a pixie who took a disliking to me because I refused to give her some of my rations when she already had some from EVERYONE else in the party. Seriously. The pixie kept attacking me, running behind the fighter in the party, laughing, and when I tried to do something, the rest of the party told me to ignore it. After the fourth hit, I died. Well, at that point, I was almost done with the group, but because this was a good friend of mine DM'ing, I stuck in it for another six months. I figured out that the best way to enjoy this game was to make soap bubbles and play up the aspect that I keep dieing. I'd charge the main bad guy, do most of the damage, and get killed while the rest of the party was working on the subordinates. I almost got to the cookie cutter PC... Oops... There goes Kenny. Let's get his twin, who ironically is also named Kenny. There goes the twin... Wait, wasn't he a triplet? So on and so forth. All in all, that whole campaign kinda jaded me to character deaths after a while. It takes a lot to make me get mad at a character death (although an unfair fight WILL get me going... Damage Reduction 5/magic against a first level party? SERIOUSLY?). I'm all still friends with the DM. We even laugh about the old times. But, mysteriously, neither of us seems to show up for the others games any more... We're both still trying to figure it out.
hmmmm 05-20-06, 09:08 AM	he was sleeping outside of town using the zombies as guards. To bad they arent capable of dealing with a spellcaster 400ft away huh? Ahh ok.
cancerousmango 05-20-06, 11:16 PM	Tamieto the Blue, one of my favorite characters ever, (this was 2E) was a loquacious bard who everone liked, but he always seemed to die in the first round of combat. We were preparing to fight a huge force of ogres coming to town, and Tamieto stepped up in front of the group and delivered an improvised speech: "Dear Mr. Ogre, I am a teller of tales. In more of those tales than I care to remember, an ogre is the butt of the joke. And I can assure you that tonight's tale shall end in much the same manner," he said as he raised his dagger and charged at the ogre, nicking its thigh. The bemused ogre smashed his head so hard that Tamieto's broken body was lodged in the wall of the church. Immediately after, the fight started and we won. I was raised and a statue was erected for my "foolish bravery."
speeblefreak 05-21-06, 12:41 AM	There's an elf spellcast in thr party I have started calling Sir Diesalot. She (yes, I am calling a female elf Sir) hasn't actually died, but she goes into the negatives on a regular basis. 5 minutes into the campaign: A dagger hits Sir Diesalot in the chest. *thud* 15 minutes into the campaign: A gnome monk pummels Sir Diesalot. *thud* 25 minutes into the campaign: Sir Diesalot gets a monstrous spider bite. *thud* 30 minutes into the campaign: Sir Diesalot and the rest of the party (except me) follow a baby blue dragon down a water well without securing water breathing. I anticipate a trio of *thuds* rather soon. __________ In another campaign, I played an elf psion whose face took a lot of abuse from the paladin. 1st session, the paladin was attacking a baby wererat with his flail. I was right next to him. He rolled a natural 1 and ended up hitting me in the face. Later, the paladin was cutting down tree branches with his sword to make a stretcher for the disgustingly ill wizard. He cut 95% of the way through a brance, which swung down and hit me in the face. In an ice cavern, the paadin pushed another character off a cliff (he had to atone), creating an explosion of ice shards when the character hit bottom. One of the ice shards hit me in the face. Specifically, in the eye. I got my own back later when my character started turning into an undead (long story). The paladin tried to grapple me. I resisted and punched him in the face, breaking his nose. __________ The same paladin also took a fair amount of heavy abuse. Over a very short campaign, mind you. First, he got smashed up by a corrupted (not the template) horse. Later, he got ripped up by a corrupted shark. Later, the nose-breaking. Later, he got a cursed sword that hurt him whenever he landed a blow. Later, he rolled a natural 1 while fighting a bugbear highwayman and cut his toe off. with said cursed sword. Finally, he got tossed 100 feet into the air by a brain in a jar. Pally didn't survive the toss.
TinManFan 05-21-06, 12:58 AM	A while back someone mentioned Rolemaster Criticals. Dude, the crits are nothing compared to wet mountain pathways overlooking a 1000 foot drop. One map had us walking on a narrow path behind a waterfall, TPK. No monters, no nuthin. As for D&D, the guy I have now, DM keeps fudging the rolls (Cause I'm the only melee guy) but keeps dying. I want him to stop but always drops me to 0 and I get better.
AesirRaven 05-21-06, 04:32 AM	Our current DM doesn't pull punches, so we've lost two characters to death already. One of them was my Soulknife, who dove off a building into a bunch of grimlocks thinking to spark a heroic sortie from the amazons that were inside said building... They didn't get the memo. The Soulknife became grimlock lunch. Messy business, really... :rolleyes: :D The other character (a Sorcerer) who died made the mistake of taunting a boulder-throwing hill giant. That was also a messy business. In both cases, the characters asked for it, and got it in spades. I think that's what prevents us from being upset about the deaths. The DM was fair, and let us pay out the rope we hanged ourselves with.
High Octane 05-22-06, 04:53 AM	In the one campaign my buddy Tony "The TERROR" DMs....... Elf thief: Dead once, dropped. Half-elf Ranger: Died 4 times (5 if you count him having to "take his natural place in nature" to turn back into a half elf when he was brought back as a stag. And by take his natural place he had to get eaten alive by wolves.) No longer played since his body wasnt recoverable. Human paladin: "Died" and was allowed to live Deusex Machina, then died again in a TPK. Human Bushi: Dead once and done. Gnome mentat (sorcerer): So far dead twice. Still being played. Half-elf thief/cleric: 3 deaths and a reincarnation as a goblin. Still being played. This is over a course of about 3 years. Yes I've had a character who I couldnt keep alive. ALL OF THEM.
KmartKommando 05-23-06, 10:04 PM	With the style of play our DM uses, pretty much everyone takes level(s) of barbarian, Improved Toughness, Shared Pain, False Life, and many others, just to stay alive one gaming session. My swashbuckling-type characters never have a chance, my rogues can never flank or see a trap coming, and I lost so many characters to overwhelming odds, given that we had twice as many players at the table as the standard group, and the creatures of the upped CR rating tend to just rip us a new one one-by-one each round of combat. But, I finally made a Psychic Warrior, and I didn't even optimize him, but he just won't die. I have mediocre combat skills, low power points from a barely-above average wisdom score, rolled really low on hit points at nearly every level, to where the dwarven wizard has much more than me. I just end up popping my Vigor and Biofeedback and every once in a while, a nice Hostile Empathic Transfer (the most fun, once made a handprint on a wizard's face as he failed his save and died instantly :D ). I may actually have to retire this one, rather than weep at his unmarked grave.. (or grease spot on the wall) My first Psychic Warrior, well, he gave 2 good rounds of complete uselessness when the swarms of bugs came around and ate him and the paladin, both of whom had nothing but a torch between them. Didn't even get to name him, so he is referred to as "Red Shirt #3" :weep: Also, once had a dwarven barbarian/fighter that got rescued by the party to replace my dead rogue. He charged a grey render and died instantly. The party didn't even get to loot his body, as I hadn't had time to equip him yet beyond: axe, armor of some sort :rolleyes:
Ashok_Lal 05-24-06, 02:23 AM	We had a charicter in our party who would wait till he was low on HP then he would fumble. Our system for fumbles was you hit yourself 1/2 damage. We ended up calling him Lord Orcarn "Self Slayer". If you dont want to loose a level for raise dead then save your pennies and put them in a bag. Soon you might have enough money to buy a resurection! Dont forget to leave a will stating that is what that money is for.