Darn Rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Darn Rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shimmer01
05-29-05, 12:51 AM Okay, Rogues are starting to tick me off. Especially the one in my party. He took the feet, "Quick Reconnences" to make free spot checks and initiative. Then he took that feet that when he makes a spot check, he can find the weakness in an armor and basically make the person have an AC 10. What I want to know is, how can I over come it?
Drood
05-29-05, 12:54 AM Never heard of this feat. Don't be afraid to take it away if you don't like it. I'm a powergamer and there have been times when my DMs have made me swap out a feat for something different because it was just too cheesy (ie using a spiked chain, combat reflexes, and a feat that makes an opponent stop in place when hit by an AOO - NASTY).

One option, stop sending in things with armor. Other rogues, mages, etc.
thugpoetry
05-29-05, 01:04 AM Message incomplete. Are you the DM or a player?
The Man from Uncle
05-29-05, 01:12 AM I am very interested to know more about this "Quick Reconnences", or 'Feat of Brokenness +5' as might otherwise be called. What exactly does the feat state?
Shimmer01
05-29-05, 01:12 AM player
Shimmer01
05-29-05, 01:14 AM Quick Reconnoiter. Sorry about the name. You need 5 ranks in listen and spot. +2 to initiative and you can take free spot and listen checks each round. The other feat I can't remember what its called. I'll find it tomorrow
Drood
05-29-05, 01:16 AM Well technically you can take free listen and spot checks every round anyways....
So a feat that gives +2 init is pretty weak (esp considering imp init is +4).

What craziness is he combining this with to put something down to 10AC?
Super Guy
05-29-05, 01:34 AM Cleared up. Thought the feat was overpowered, found out it took a standard action.
Kintara
05-29-05, 02:10 AM Deft Strike? It costs a Standard action to use the feat, it doesn't matter if they can make Spot checks as free actions, the Deft Strike still takes a Standard action. Deft Strike is a feat, costing a Standard action, that requires a spot check. That's how I'd rule it.

Quick Reconnoiter is for making regular old Spot checks, which usually require a move action (I believe) to use actively. Like, if you ask to make a Spot check to see something, that's a move action. You remember in the Fifth Element when Bruce Willis character pokes his eye into the room with the aliens for an instant, and knows how many aliens there are, and where they are? That's Quick Reconnoiter (well, I'd allow someone with that feat to do that, but it's not exactly what it does. It would be more accurate as an example if he used Shot on the Run, ran from one side of the door to the other, made a shot as he passed, and still spotted the room like he did in that scene).
allenchan
05-29-05, 02:13 AM Neither of these feats are very powerful if you use them properly and follow the RAW. You get to make a touch attack every other round. woo.
Super Guy
05-29-05, 02:16 AM Oh, if all that was is deft strike then I reclaim my statement. You can't make a full round attack or anything, because it takes a standard action to use it. It's not overpowered.

Editing previous post...
The Man from Uncle
05-29-05, 02:26 AM So what's the deal? How does it work? You take a spot check one round (and no other standard action) and make a touch attack the next? Sounds VERY handy for a thiefy type, but not not broken.
Lord Schpungus
05-29-05, 02:37 AM Well, with Deft Strike and Improved Feint, assuming both worked, he'd get one attack every two rounds against an AC of about 10, dealing sneak attack damage. Much more efficient to get a flanking buddy and deal sneak attack damage multiples times every round.

I would also have to say that Quick Reconnoiter does not decrease the time for a Deft Strike check. It decreases time for normal spot/listen checks only.
The Man from Uncle
05-29-05, 03:04 AM What are the prerequisites for deft strike? I am making a bard (see link below) and he is will likely have a laughable attack bonus, but the ability to take a cheap shot by spotting a weakness might suit him well. Also what book is it in?

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=436226

This was another cheap plug brought to you by the Man from Uncle!
Lord Schpungus
05-29-05, 01:51 PM It's in the Draconomicon, and also in Complete Adventurer. It requires combat expertise, sneak attack, and plenty of spot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shimmer01 05-29-05, 12:51 AM	Okay, Rogues are starting to tick me off. Especially the one in my party. He took the feet, "Quick Reconnences" to make free spot checks and initiative. Then he took that feet that when he makes a spot check, he can find the weakness in an armor and basically make the person have an AC 10. What I want to know is, how can I over come it?
Drood 05-29-05, 12:54 AM	Never heard of this feat. Don't be afraid to take it away if you don't like it. I'm a powergamer and there have been times when my DMs have made me swap out a feat for something different because it was just too cheesy (ie using a spiked chain, combat reflexes, and a feat that makes an opponent stop in place when hit by an AOO - NASTY). One option, stop sending in things with armor. Other rogues, mages, etc.
thugpoetry 05-29-05, 01:04 AM	Message incomplete. Are you the DM or a player?
The Man from Uncle 05-29-05, 01:12 AM	I am very interested to know more about this "Quick Reconnences", or 'Feat of Brokenness +5' as might otherwise be called. What exactly does the feat state?
Shimmer01 05-29-05, 01:12 AM	player
Shimmer01 05-29-05, 01:14 AM	Quick Reconnoiter. Sorry about the name. You need 5 ranks in listen and spot. +2 to initiative and you can take free spot and listen checks each round. The other feat I can't remember what its called. I'll find it tomorrow
Drood 05-29-05, 01:16 AM	Well technically you can take free listen and spot checks every round anyways.... So a feat that gives +2 init is pretty weak (esp considering imp init is +4). What craziness is he combining this with to put something down to 10AC?
Super Guy 05-29-05, 01:34 AM	Cleared up. Thought the feat was overpowered, found out it took a standard action.
Kintara 05-29-05, 02:10 AM	Deft Strike? It costs a Standard action to use the feat, it doesn't matter if they can make Spot checks as free actions, the Deft Strike still takes a Standard action. Deft Strike is a feat, costing a Standard action, that requires a spot check. That's how I'd rule it. Quick Reconnoiter is for making regular old Spot checks, which usually require a move action (I believe) to use actively. Like, if you ask to make a Spot check to see something, that's a move action. You remember in the Fifth Element when Bruce Willis character pokes his eye into the room with the aliens for an instant, and knows how many aliens there are, and where they are? That's Quick Reconnoiter (well, I'd allow someone with that feat to do that, but it's not exactly what it does. It would be more accurate as an example if he used Shot on the Run, ran from one side of the door to the other, made a shot as he passed, and still spotted the room like he did in that scene).
allenchan 05-29-05, 02:13 AM	Neither of these feats are very powerful if you use them properly and follow the RAW. You get to make a touch attack every other round. woo.
Super Guy 05-29-05, 02:16 AM	Oh, if all that was is deft strike then I reclaim my statement. You can't make a full round attack or anything, because it takes a standard action to use it. It's not overpowered. Editing previous post...
The Man from Uncle 05-29-05, 02:26 AM	So what's the deal? How does it work? You take a spot check one round (and no other standard action) and make a touch attack the next? Sounds VERY handy for a thiefy type, but not not broken.
Lord Schpungus 05-29-05, 02:37 AM	Well, with Deft Strike and Improved Feint, assuming both worked, he'd get one attack every two rounds against an AC of about 10, dealing sneak attack damage. Much more efficient to get a flanking buddy and deal sneak attack damage multiples times every round. I would also have to say that Quick Reconnoiter does not decrease the time for a Deft Strike check. It decreases time for normal spot/listen checks only.
The Man from Uncle 05-29-05, 03:04 AM	What are the prerequisites for deft strike? I am making a bard (see link below) and he is will likely have a laughable attack bonus, but the ability to take a cheap shot by spotting a weakness might suit him well. Also what book is it in? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=436226 This was another cheap plug brought to you by the Man from Uncle!
Lord Schpungus 05-29-05, 01:51 PM	It's in the Draconomicon, and also in Complete Adventurer. It requires combat expertise, sneak attack, and plenty of spot.