darvision and mirrors? [Archive] - Wizards Community

darvision and mirrors? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
castigated
04-09-06, 05:27 AM if you have darkvision, in a completely dark dungeon, can you use a mirror to see around the corner?

there is no light to reflect, so my guess is no. but according to the books, it says that darkvision works exactly like normal vision.

thoughts?
Shaggy_Shaggs
04-09-06, 05:31 AM That's a good question. The strictest logic would say mirrors don't work in the dark, but then it would also say darkvision doesn't work at all.

Since darkvision works pretty much like normal vision except it doesn't require any light to work, I would rule that you can use a mirror to see at an odd angle with darkvision, just like you could with normal vision.
kelvinaw273
04-09-06, 05:58 AM I seem to recall that darkvision sees 'shapes' rather than colour definitions. As such, to darkvision a mirror is just another shape.
DaMullet
04-09-06, 12:31 PM I seem to recall this exact topic coming up a few weeks ago.

This ws the ruling.

Darkvision is black and white only but otherwise like normal sight.

Can you see around a corner in normal light? Then you can in Darkvision.
DM_Greatness
04-09-06, 12:48 PM As a former Armor crew member in the Fab U.S Army, I'll go ahead and throw my two cents in here for this one.

On the tanks, we have nightvision equipment that allow us to be fully functional at night time. These are different than the standard 'everything is green' type of night vision equipment. Everything is either black or white.

Darkness provides no cover at all. You see the world as bright as you could see it in the sun, and anything that would produce heat of some kind (vehicles, lights, people) just show up as a bright white of their exact shape and features. While the land, trees, and ground as black, with white lining (like they were drawn with only black and white on paper.)

If you ever watch the police chases from helicopter, or CSI, or anything to that effect, I bet you have already see this effect.

It describes Darkvision to a tee. I'm about 100% certain whoever wrote the rules for Darkvision has used this type of night vision enhancment. There is no way a mirror could reflect any of that.

Bringing the real world to the fantasy world... I'd have to say that Darkvision wouldn't reflect in a mirror. :teach:
Iry
04-09-06, 01:03 PM It's just so arbitrary.
By RAW, it should reflect around mirrors, but that has certain implications best not explored in a fantasy setting. That of Darkvision being an actual spectrum shift that picks up other ranges of non-visible light bouncing around which would reflect off mirrors to some degree.

The quick and easy answer is to just say no. Maybe have the mirror surface either be white or black depending on wether it is facing an empty space or a surface, and otherwise hold no distingishing details.
DaMullet
04-09-06, 01:11 PM DM Greatness, since when has bringing real-world logic to DnD proved more effective than using a welding torch to freeze water?

The SRD has spoken, though I won't stop you from ruling how you like.
DM_Greatness
04-09-06, 01:15 PM Thanks Mullet! I'm glad I still have your permission to rule however I want :D

Black/White Night vision is just like normal sight btw... However, it still wouldn't reflect in a mirror, trust me :thumbsup:

And you got to love the Mullet... 'Business in the front, Party in the back!' :w00t:
DaMullet
04-09-06, 01:19 PM Indeed. Despite your swaying argument, I will continue to rule is as I see it, as well.
ressurrector
04-09-06, 03:57 PM Well, it depends really, what is darkvision?

I will now assume that darkvision is simply that a characters eyes can see light spectra that are not visible to humans (usually heat).
Now, a mirror reflects all EM thrown at it, dependant on the type of mirror (infrared and UV are types of EM waves, so are X-rays, and other fun things)

So, if Darkvision really does use light (EM waves, photons) outside the visible spectrum, then yes you could get a mirror that would reflect it. This might have to be a different type of mirror however.

Of course, this is D&D, physics got kicked out the back door long ago, so ask your DM.
CYMRO
04-09-06, 04:07 PM Darkvision is black and white only but otherwise like normal sight.

Seems simple enough.
That "otherwise" is very clear.

If you want a fluffier explanation, darkvision sees a different frequency of light, and a mirror reflects that "darklight" just as well as it reflects ordinary light.
Bulletproof_Condom
04-09-06, 11:09 PM This pile of copper pieces just increased by two.

You have to realize, mirrors are used to reflect light, and darkvision specifically works in the complete absense of light. Since the mirror can only be used to reflect something that isn't there, I'd rule that darkvision wouldn't work in a mirror. That mirror surface would be just another black & white object.

However, this is a mundane mirror we're talking about. I'd have no problem with allowing a magical "darkvision mirror" if a PC really wanted it, say for 50 gp. It's a little too expensive for most NPCs, but pocketchange for any PC above 1st level.
ressurrector
04-09-06, 11:49 PM You have to realize, mirrors are used to reflect light, and darkvision specifically works in the complete absense of light. Since the mirror can only be used to reflect something that isn't there, I'd rule that darkvision wouldn't work in a mirror. That mirror surface would be just another black & white object.
There's light, and then there's visible light.
Light is any electro-magnetic emission, including radio waves. It is composed of photons.
Visible light is light that falls within a certain waveleingth, which is visible by the human eye.
Darkvision functions in the absence of visible light, if it required the absence of all light then it would never function.
shadowfox628
04-10-06, 12:38 AM A mirror reflects light, which consists of colors. If there is no light, there is no color. Personally, I'd rule that you can't do it. Mirrors depends fully on light, which means that it depends on color. I'd consider Darkvision to be on a different spectrum. So, the mirror would be useless. However, that's my ruling.
Rhomphaia
04-10-06, 01:44 AM There are problems both ways with judging this.

Just doing a blanket 'darkvision works like normal light' has problems. For example, could you use a magnifying glass to make a fire? This is completely illogical while being able to see in a mirror or read a scroll would seem feasible.

However, ruling that it doesn't work opens yourself up to all kinds of criticism for possible contradictory rulings on this and seemingly unrelated issues. For example, if you can't see a reflection in a mirror in darkvision, then how might non-mind-affecting illusions work against someone with darkvision? just as an example. Another one is would a spyglass work at all, or other visually enhancing equipment?

Ruling on this is kind of a damned if ya do and damned if ya don't situation.
DegenerateElite
04-10-06, 02:10 AM Let us assume Darkvision simply functions in a different wavelength. The fact that it is present even in the absence of normally visible light does not mean you could light a fire by using ambient darkvision spectrum light. It is only the massive amount of light coming from the sun that allows things to be lit with a magnifying glass outside. If you are sitting in a dark cave and try to focus a flashlight on a piece of paper to light it, fat chance. Likewise there would not be a concentration of darkvision spectrum light of great enough strength to light something. Perhaps if you made a small darklight sun or something it would be possible... i guess. W/e.
ArcTan
04-10-06, 03:29 AM It's *simple* to explain darkvision, people. Darkvision is extremely sensitive to infrared radiation. The nightvision DM_Greatness describes is a form of IR scanning.

Here's how it works: Anything that has heat gives off some radiation -- the universe is filled with background radiation. No place is truly completely dark.

If something is very, very hot, it glows in the visible spectrum, usually in the lower end. That's why metal that heats up becomes "red-hot", and if you heat it up more it becomes orange, then yellow. Very hot things glow blue, like flames from a gasjet. (The lowest frequencies are at the outer edge of the rainbow and the highest at the inner: it goes red->blue.)

Things that aren't quite as hot glow at a lower frequency than that, which we call "infrared" or "below red". Among those things are human bodies.

Which means that, assuming you're one of the vast majority of PCs whose race is that of a warm-blooded mammal, to a very sensitive IR scanner your own body glows like a torch. Which means that you, personally, are filling the room with "light". Which means that the infrared radiation you're giving off, which can be reflected from a mirror just like any other kind of light, is what's illuminating your surroundings.

There are problems with this, sure -- why don't monsters glow incredibly brightly when you're using darkvision? -- but it's easy to say that the spell compensates for brighter or darker areas to create the illusion of overall steady illumination. You can even say that the spell itself generates some infrared radiation even if your body is completely cold (though I contend that even a warforged or a lich generates *some* heat just by moving around).

If you fudge the science just a little, it explains everything and lets you see in mirrors and lets you see illusions (there's no reason a complete illusion wouldn't emit light in the infrared as well as in the visible range, since a sensible spell would be designed to fool _darkvision_) and all that, without having to make up any dodgy and complicated new laws of physics.

By the way, the fact that the vision is black-and-white proves nothing -- color is just an arbitrary way for the eye to see differences in frequency of light, and there's no reason _darkvision_ should impose such a filter to create color in your darkvision, given that the frequency of light you're looking at is different from visible light anyway.
Shaggy_Shaggs
04-10-06, 03:41 AM Except darkvision isn't infravision, infravision doesn't exist anymore, and acting like it does requires a massively failed Int check and opens the door back up to all sorts of ridiculousness like tracking skillless via leftover heat in footprints, hiding in areas of extreme temperature, etc etc.
DegenerateElite
04-10-06, 03:51 AM I'm not sure if i agree with this. In R.A. Salvatore's books (YAY) featuring Drizzt's early life (curse him) and the War of the Spider Queen series (yay again) it is made clear that Drow darkvision works in the infrared spectrum; Narbondel is a drow version of the clock, being heated at the beginning of the day and cool as the day passed. However, this way of handling darkvision DOES NOT work as normal light. First of all you cannot hide in shadows but rather hide by making your temperature match natural features around you, as when Drizzt turns his cape into a conical structure to elude goblins or some such. Hiding one's self in such a manner is a deliberate practice and would not function at all like normal hiding. Similiarly, it is explained that reading normally is impossible with darkvision. I believe it is Gromph who complains about using dim candles to study arcane texts or having to use expensive exothermic dyes with a short life-span. These two specific examples lead me to believe that 1) Faerunian literature is made seperate from RAW 3e d20 and 2) That darkvision in said rules setting does not function in the infrared spectrum.
I am not nearly as knowledgable about ultraviolet light, only that is doesn't have color as we see it but that insects for instance are drawn to ultraviolet patterns on flowers. Perhaps it operates in this way?
Planar Wanderer
04-10-06, 08:21 AM I'm fairly sure I saw somewhere that the Dri'zzt books date back to the days of late 2nd ed, that would certainly explain the difference, Darkvision doesn't behave like infra-vision would (no idea how it did work in D&D I'm just basing it off of what physics I can think of) seriously IR behaves exactly like light, by that logic something like Brown Mold (is that the one which causes cold damage?) would probably completely destroy Darkvision, how darkvision works is left unexplained and really so far as I'm concerned "It's magic" works fine, UV would be similar to IR, its very similar to light (being EM radiation like light and IR) the only difference is the wavelength and hence photon energy, you still need a source, if either was the case you'd expect inanimate objects not to show up in darkvision but they do hence it can't be any part of the conventional spectrum since there isn't really anything that say a golem should emit, as Shaggy_Shaggs said you get into all sorts of rule difficulties if you try to rationalise Darkvision like this.
nyysjan
04-10-06, 08:40 AM how darkvision works is left unexplained and really so far as I'm concerned "It's magic" works fine,

wrong it isn't magic, Drakvision is Ex quality an as such works in antimagic fields :P
Planar Wanderer
04-10-06, 08:44 AM [QUOTE=Planar Wanderer]how darkvision works is left unexplained and really so far as I'm concerned "It's magic" works fine,QUOTE]

wrong it isn't magic, Drakvision is Ex quality an as such works in antimagic fields :P

That's what I get for not looking it up before posting *points to note in sig about mistakes*still most of my point stands, and to clarify the intent of that sentence, it was more to say "They don't say how and I'm not going to theorise but.... "
Sir Knight
04-10-06, 08:59 AM I'm not sure if i agree with this. In R.A. Salvatore's books (YAY) featuring Drizzt's early life (curse him) and the War of the Spider Queen series (yay again) it is made clear that Drow darkvision works in the infrared spectrum; Narbondel is a drow version of the clock, being heated at the beginning of the day and cool as the day passed. However, this way of handling darkvision DOES NOT work as normal light. First of all you cannot hide in shadows but rather hide by making your temperature match natural features around you, as when Drizzt turns his cape into a conical structure to elude goblins or some such. Hiding one's self in such a manner is a deliberate practice and would not function at all like normal hiding. Similiarly, it is explained that reading normally is impossible with darkvision. I believe it is Gromph who complains about using dim candles to study arcane texts or having to use expensive exothermic dyes with a short life-span. These two specific examples lead me to believe that 1) Faerunian literature is made seperate from RAW 3e d20 and 2) That darkvision in said rules setting does not function in the infrared spectrum.
I am not nearly as knowledgable about ultraviolet light, only that is doesn't have color as we see it but that insects for instance are drawn to ultraviolet patterns on flowers. Perhaps it operates in this way?

This isn't valid anymore as Infravision was changed to either Low-Light Vision or Darkvision depending on the race. It doesn't exist in 3.5e and is a 2e mechanic. That said, you could change Drow (or any other underdark race) to Infravision and rule it the same in mechanics and just say that you see heat patterns and can't read via Infravision (play EverQuest 2, it is neat how you can shift into the different visions).

Also, remember that you CAN hide in shadows with Infravision. Drizzt and others did it in the novels by calming their bodies to have a lower temperature and to use natural stuff (rocks, fungi, etc) to mask his body heat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
castigated 04-09-06, 05:27 AM	if you have darkvision, in a completely dark dungeon, can you use a mirror to see around the corner? there is no light to reflect, so my guess is no. but according to the books, it says that darkvision works exactly like normal vision. thoughts?
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-09-06, 05:31 AM	That's a good question. The strictest logic would say mirrors don't work in the dark, but then it would also say darkvision doesn't work at all. Since darkvision works pretty much like normal vision except it doesn't require any light to work, I would rule that you can use a mirror to see at an odd angle with darkvision, just like you could with normal vision.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 05:58 AM	I seem to recall that darkvision sees 'shapes' rather than colour definitions. As such, to darkvision a mirror is just another shape.
DaMullet 04-09-06, 12:31 PM	I seem to recall this exact topic coming up a few weeks ago. This ws the ruling. Darkvision is black and white only but otherwise like normal sight. Can you see around a corner in normal light? Then you can in Darkvision.
DM_Greatness 04-09-06, 12:48 PM	As a former Armor crew member in the Fab U.S Army, I'll go ahead and throw my two cents in here for this one. On the tanks, we have nightvision equipment that allow us to be fully functional at night time. These are different than the standard 'everything is green' type of night vision equipment. Everything is either black or white. Darkness provides no cover at all. You see the world as bright as you could see it in the sun, and anything that would produce heat of some kind (vehicles, lights, people) just show up as a bright white of their exact shape and features. While the land, trees, and ground as black, with white lining (like they were drawn with only black and white on paper.) If you ever watch the police chases from helicopter, or CSI, or anything to that effect, I bet you have already see this effect. It describes Darkvision to a tee. I'm about 100% certain whoever wrote the rules for Darkvision has used this type of night vision enhancment. There is no way a mirror could reflect any of that. Bringing the real world to the fantasy world... I'd have to say that Darkvision wouldn't reflect in a mirror. :teach:
Iry 04-09-06, 01:03 PM	It's just so arbitrary. By RAW, it should reflect around mirrors, but that has certain implications best not explored in a fantasy setting. That of Darkvision being an actual spectrum shift that picks up other ranges of non-visible light bouncing around which would reflect off mirrors to some degree. The quick and easy answer is to just say no. Maybe have the mirror surface either be white or black depending on wether it is facing an empty space or a surface, and otherwise hold no distingishing details.
DaMullet 04-09-06, 01:11 PM	DM Greatness, since when has bringing real-world logic to DnD proved more effective than using a welding torch to freeze water? The SRD has spoken, though I won't stop you from ruling how you like.
DM_Greatness 04-09-06, 01:15 PM	Thanks Mullet! I'm glad I still have your permission to rule however I want :D Black/White Night vision is just like normal sight btw... However, it still wouldn't reflect in a mirror, trust me :thumbsup: And you got to love the Mullet... 'Business in the front, Party in the back!' :w00t:
DaMullet 04-09-06, 01:19 PM	Indeed. Despite your swaying argument, I will continue to rule is as I see it, as well.
ressurrector 04-09-06, 03:57 PM	Well, it depends really, what is darkvision? I will now assume that darkvision is simply that a characters eyes can see light spectra that are not visible to humans (usually heat). Now, a mirror reflects all EM thrown at it, dependant on the type of mirror (infrared and UV are types of EM waves, so are X-rays, and other fun things) So, if Darkvision really does use light (EM waves, photons) outside the visible spectrum, then yes you could get a mirror that would reflect it. This might have to be a different type of mirror however. Of course, this is D&D, physics got kicked out the back door long ago, so ask your DM.
CYMRO 04-09-06, 04:07 PM	Darkvision is black and white only but otherwise like normal sight. Seems simple enough. That "otherwise" is very clear. If you want a fluffier explanation, darkvision sees a different frequency of light, and a mirror reflects that "darklight" just as well as it reflects ordinary light.
Bulletproof_Condom 04-09-06, 11:09 PM	This pile of copper pieces just increased by two. You have to realize, mirrors are used to reflect light, and darkvision specifically works in the complete absense of light. Since the mirror can only be used to reflect something that isn't there, I'd rule that darkvision wouldn't work in a mirror. That mirror surface would be just another black & white object. However, this is a mundane mirror we're talking about. I'd have no problem with allowing a magical "darkvision mirror" if a PC really wanted it, say for 50 gp. It's a little too expensive for most NPCs, but pocketchange for any PC above 1st level.
ressurrector 04-09-06, 11:49 PM	You have to realize, mirrors are used to reflect light, and darkvision specifically works in the complete absense of light. Since the mirror can only be used to reflect something that isn't there, I'd rule that darkvision wouldn't work in a mirror. That mirror surface would be just another black & white object. There's light, and then there's visible light. Light is any electro-magnetic emission, including radio waves. It is composed of photons. Visible light is light that falls within a certain waveleingth, which is visible by the human eye. Darkvision functions in the absence of visible light, if it required the absence of all light then it would never function.
shadowfox628 04-10-06, 12:38 AM	A mirror reflects light, which consists of colors. If there is no light, there is no color. Personally, I'd rule that you can't do it. Mirrors depends fully on light, which means that it depends on color. I'd consider Darkvision to be on a different spectrum. So, the mirror would be useless. However, that's my ruling.
Rhomphaia 04-10-06, 01:44 AM	There are problems both ways with judging this. Just doing a blanket 'darkvision works like normal light' has problems. For example, could you use a magnifying glass to make a fire? This is completely illogical while being able to see in a mirror or read a scroll would seem feasible. However, ruling that it doesn't work opens yourself up to all kinds of criticism for possible contradictory rulings on this and seemingly unrelated issues. For example, if you can't see a reflection in a mirror in darkvision, then how might non-mind-affecting illusions work against someone with darkvision? just as an example. Another one is would a spyglass work at all, or other visually enhancing equipment? Ruling on this is kind of a damned if ya do and damned if ya don't situation.
DegenerateElite 04-10-06, 02:10 AM	Let us assume Darkvision simply functions in a different wavelength. The fact that it is present even in the absence of normally visible light does not mean you could light a fire by using ambient darkvision spectrum light. It is only the massive amount of light coming from the sun that allows things to be lit with a magnifying glass outside. If you are sitting in a dark cave and try to focus a flashlight on a piece of paper to light it, fat chance. Likewise there would not be a concentration of darkvision spectrum light of great enough strength to light something. Perhaps if you made a small darklight sun or something it would be possible... i guess. W/e.
ArcTan 04-10-06, 03:29 AM	It's simple to explain darkvision, people. Darkvision is extremely sensitive to infrared radiation. The nightvision DM_Greatness describes is a form of IR scanning. Here's how it works: Anything that has heat gives off some radiation -- the universe is filled with background radiation. No place is truly completely dark. If something is very, very hot, it glows in the visible spectrum, usually in the lower end. That's why metal that heats up becomes "red-hot", and if you heat it up more it becomes orange, then yellow. Very hot things glow blue, like flames from a gasjet. (The lowest frequencies are at the outer edge of the rainbow and the highest at the inner: it goes red->blue.) Things that aren't quite as hot glow at a lower frequency than that, which we call "infrared" or "below red". Among those things are human bodies. Which means that, assuming you're one of the vast majority of PCs whose race is that of a warm-blooded mammal, to a very sensitive IR scanner your own body glows like a torch. Which means that you, personally, are filling the room with "light". Which means that the infrared radiation you're giving off, which can be reflected from a mirror just like any other kind of light, is what's illuminating your surroundings. There are problems with this, sure -- why don't monsters glow incredibly brightly when you're using darkvision? -- but it's easy to say that the spell compensates for brighter or darker areas to create the illusion of overall steady illumination. You can even say that the spell itself generates some infrared radiation even if your body is completely cold (though I contend that even a warforged or a lich generates some heat just by moving around). If you fudge the science just a little, it explains everything and lets you see in mirrors and lets you see illusions (there's no reason a complete illusion wouldn't emit light in the infrared as well as in the visible range, since a sensible spell would be designed to fool _darkvision_) and all that, without having to make up any dodgy and complicated new laws of physics. By the way, the fact that the vision is black-and-white proves nothing -- color is just an arbitrary way for the eye to see differences in frequency of light, and there's no reason _darkvision_ should impose such a filter to create color in your darkvision, given that the frequency of light you're looking at is different from visible light anyway.
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-10-06, 03:41 AM	Except darkvision isn't infravision, infravision doesn't exist anymore, and acting like it does requires a massively failed Int check and opens the door back up to all sorts of ridiculousness like tracking skillless via leftover heat in footprints, hiding in areas of extreme temperature, etc etc.
DegenerateElite 04-10-06, 03:51 AM	I'm not sure if i agree with this. In R.A. Salvatore's books (YAY) featuring Drizzt's early life (curse him) and the War of the Spider Queen series (yay again) it is made clear that Drow darkvision works in the infrared spectrum; Narbondel is a drow version of the clock, being heated at the beginning of the day and cool as the day passed. However, this way of handling darkvision DOES NOT work as normal light. First of all you cannot hide in shadows but rather hide by making your temperature match natural features around you, as when Drizzt turns his cape into a conical structure to elude goblins or some such. Hiding one's self in such a manner is a deliberate practice and would not function at all like normal hiding. Similiarly, it is explained that reading normally is impossible with darkvision. I believe it is Gromph who complains about using dim candles to study arcane texts or having to use expensive exothermic dyes with a short life-span. These two specific examples lead me to believe that 1) Faerunian literature is made seperate from RAW 3e d20 and 2) That darkvision in said rules setting does not function in the infrared spectrum. I am not nearly as knowledgable about ultraviolet light, only that is doesn't have color as we see it but that insects for instance are drawn to ultraviolet patterns on flowers. Perhaps it operates in this way?
Planar Wanderer 04-10-06, 08:21 AM	I'm fairly sure I saw somewhere that the Dri'zzt books date back to the days of late 2nd ed, that would certainly explain the difference, Darkvision doesn't behave like infra-vision would (no idea how it did work in D&D I'm just basing it off of what physics I can think of) seriously IR behaves exactly like light, by that logic something like Brown Mold (is that the one which causes cold damage?) would probably completely destroy Darkvision, how darkvision works is left unexplained and really so far as I'm concerned "It's magic" works fine, UV would be similar to IR, its very similar to light (being EM radiation like light and IR) the only difference is the wavelength and hence photon energy, you still need a source, if either was the case you'd expect inanimate objects not to show up in darkvision but they do hence it can't be any part of the conventional spectrum since there isn't really anything that say a golem should emit, as Shaggy_Shaggs said you get into all sorts of rule difficulties if you try to rationalise Darkvision like this.
nyysjan 04-10-06, 08:40 AM	how darkvision works is left unexplained and really so far as I'm concerned "It's magic" works fine, wrong it isn't magic, Drakvision is Ex quality an as such works in antimagic fields :P
Planar Wanderer 04-10-06, 08:44 AM	[QUOTE=Planar Wanderer]how darkvision works is left unexplained and really so far as I'm concerned "It's magic" works fine,QUOTE] wrong it isn't magic, Drakvision is Ex quality an as such works in antimagic fields :P That's what I get for not looking it up before posting points to note in sig about mistakesstill most of my point stands, and to clarify the intent of that sentence, it was more to say "They don't say how and I'm not going to theorise but.... "
Sir Knight 04-10-06, 08:59 AM	I'm not sure if i agree with this. In R.A. Salvatore's books (YAY) featuring Drizzt's early life (curse him) and the War of the Spider Queen series (yay again) it is made clear that Drow darkvision works in the infrared spectrum; Narbondel is a drow version of the clock, being heated at the beginning of the day and cool as the day passed. However, this way of handling darkvision DOES NOT work as normal light. First of all you cannot hide in shadows but rather hide by making your temperature match natural features around you, as when Drizzt turns his cape into a conical structure to elude goblins or some such. Hiding one's self in such a manner is a deliberate practice and would not function at all like normal hiding. Similiarly, it is explained that reading normally is impossible with darkvision. I believe it is Gromph who complains about using dim candles to study arcane texts or having to use expensive exothermic dyes with a short life-span. These two specific examples lead me to believe that 1) Faerunian literature is made seperate from RAW 3e d20 and 2) That darkvision in said rules setting does not function in the infrared spectrum. I am not nearly as knowledgable about ultraviolet light, only that is doesn't have color as we see it but that insects for instance are drawn to ultraviolet patterns on flowers. Perhaps it operates in this way? This isn't valid anymore as Infravision was changed to either Low-Light Vision or Darkvision depending on the race. It doesn't exist in 3.5e and is a 2e mechanic. That said, you could change Drow (or any other underdark race) to Infravision and rule it the same in mechanics and just say that you see heat patterns and can't read via Infravision (play EverQuest 2, it is neat how you can shift into the different visions). Also, remember that you CAN hide in shadows with Infravision. Drizzt and others did it in the novels by calming their bodies to have a lower temperature and to use natural stuff (rocks, fungi, etc) to mask his body heat.