Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Horseshoe 12-09-06, 06:23 PM	Hi there, I've been DM'ing a campaign for a group of players for a little while, and occasionally work calls me away from our gaming night. I was kind of hoping that they would work on their characters or do some sort of in-character thing with each other, but instead one of the players decided to start her own campaign. Which is cool. However, they want me to play now. So far, what I've heard includes: "She wants you to play a wizard. You can put any spell in your spellbook and you start at level 2 with a ring of sustenance and a handy haversack." The stats she's giving the players add up to something like a 62 point buy. Apparently, every character gets the ring and the sack... its' that sort of thing. To me, it looks like symptoms of lazy/bad DM'ing, and it makes me not want to play. It seems like she's handing out spells and items so as not to have to deal with game mechanics. Or, maybe it's because I put a lot of time into my campaign and it's going to irritate me to be in one that sounds less thought out. Am I just being a jerk and should I play anyway? Or if not, any recommendations on how to break it to this person that I don't want to play in her campaign without offending her? Thanks.
Mixster 12-09-06, 06:29 PM	well you could try it... and if it starts getting boring, ask the tell her how you feel... But my word is: it can't be all wrong, perhaps this DM may introduce something new and you'd be loving to play her campaign...
Rancorpit 12-09-06, 06:45 PM	In my experience, campaigns like that tend to die on their own anyway. It's all fun and games for a while, but in the end, the other players probably want to play "properly" again. Of course YMMV.
Knight9910 12-09-06, 06:56 PM	As a rule I refuse to play any game where I'm told something like "She wants you to play a wizard." Now, I myself have asked new people coming in if they would make certain character archetypes to fill a niche that's unfilled by the current party such as "we need a rogue badly" or "we could really use a healer", but I always leave the final choice up to them. Any game where the DM basically gives your characters to you sounds like trouble to me.
TokTok 12-09-06, 06:59 PM	Not everyone's great at DMing, so some might want to prevent arguements and (more difficult) game mechanics early on. Don't be too harsh on it, and give it a try. You can notice later on if things go too haywire. (Plus, I'd take any opportunity to be a player instead of DM. DMing can be a stressful business.) You could even see it as going back to your roots, to remember what it was like to be new at the game again. I'd give my entire cookie stash just to get that blissfull ignorance again. But your irritation is understandable. Those magic items take away the challenge, and having others pick out the class you have to play...(I'd shudder at that. It's no fun if I can't scurry through books for an hour or two to get a cool character concept.)
Tyraxus 12-09-06, 07:00 PM	Eh, at least give it a shot, you never know. Maybe she's built something that needs the massive spells and high stats to let the characters survive. Or maybe everybody decided they'd like a "munchkin" game for a while (you know, the kind where the PCs are basically gods on earth from the get-go). And how often does a DM get the chance to actually play for a while? If you don't care for it, and don't want to hurt her feelings by telling her that her campaign sucks, you've a history of having to miss games due to work, so use that.
romana 12-09-06, 08:13 PM	Give it a shot, and have a non-threatening debrief with her informally after sessions. I've recently taken over from an experienced DM (his request - he wanted to play), and we sit down after sessions and pick what happened apart to work out what worked well, and what could have gone better. She might have a reason for introducing that stuff (which could be well- or ill- founded); sitting down with her after a session might help clarify this for both of you.
Tyraxus 12-09-06, 08:28 PM	After thinking about it for a bit, I strongly suggest going to the DM and asking specifically what's going on even before you build your character, just to be sure. It sounds to me like the whole "you have to be a wizard" thing is more of a breakdown in communication (party really needs a wizard guys, talk to him about it) or in group politics (Party: We need a wizard. DM: Prolly a good idea. Party: Well, he can do it, we don't want to and he's not here, so he gets the short straw.) - you know how in small-scale politics the guy that isn't there gets voted in to do all the work. Ring of sustenance may be small-scale aversion to bookkeeping (she doesn't want to make people keep up with rations or whatever), and the sack reinforces this by saying she doesn't really want to make you keep up with space and weight limits. But like I said, after thinking about it, I'd get confirmation of the whole wizard thing before anything else happens.
Animae_Draconum 12-09-06, 09:50 PM	Personally I would power game the hell out or her lazy campaign by playing Pun-Pun or another extremely cheesy build, and teach her how being a lazy DM leads to players not wanting to play. It may takle a few sessions but essentially the idea is for your Pun-Pun-esque character to override the DM any time you dont like somthing. I've used this strategy before and it works really well, it teaches them how to be a proper DM and not just an encounter generator. A_D
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 12-09-06, 11:28 PM	I feel having new people introduced to DMing is almost as important as having new people introduced to playing. True, some people just can't get the hang of it. But thats no reason to set out to destroy the campaign. Any time you do that you are just as likely to set the person off of DMing and possibly playing with you in the future. I'm assuming you are all friends and rational adults. Take to each other. And sometimes an encounter generating "campaign" is fun. I run one in addition to my actual campaign when people can't show up. Its an infinite dungeon with little to no consistency and allows people to have something different.
Boshi 12-09-06, 11:41 PM	Personally I would power game the hell out or her lazy campaign by playing Pun-Pun or another extremely cheesy build, and teach her how being a lazy DM leads to players not wanting to play. It may takle a few sessions but essentially the idea is for your Pun-Pun-esque character to override the DM any time you dont like somthing. I've used this strategy before and it works really well, it teaches them how to be a proper DM and not just an encounter generator. A_D That sounds like a remarkably petty and immature course of action. I would strongly recommend not doing anything of the sort.
Sphyre 12-10-06, 12:20 AM	However, they want me to play now. So far, what I've heard includes: "She wants you to play a wizard. Ok, she can want all she wants, she can suggest it, but if you want to play a fighter, cleric, sorcerer or rogue, she better well let you play what you want, even if it's a less traditional party. It's upto the players to choose their characters, not the DM. Also, it sounds by the invitation, that everyone's happy with how the new DM is doing things, and you are the one that's wary. You can put any spell in your spellbook and you start at level 2 with a ring of sustenance and a handy haversack." Any spell in your spell book? What does that mean? You may have researched spells upto 1st level before the game? That doesn't seem out of line. Nothing says you have to adventure before you can take time to copy new spells. Some rules are just annoying to keep track of. A lot of people use the "upkeep system" but more people just ignore food all together. Apparently, she would prefer not altering the game at all, but rather assume that you obtained it somehow. This is not lazy DMing, this is simply a preference of focus. Everyone has preferences, and the group must work together to comprimise with each other for what gaming preferences they will have. Same goes for the Triple H. It's a very handy item that one of my players in the past praised and almost always got. The convenience may be something she enjoyed and something she wishes for her players to enjoy. The stats she's giving the players add up to something like a 62 point buy. Apparently, every character gets the ring and the sack... its' that sort of thing. Again, 62 pointbuy is yet another preference. In fact, high stats are nice for players when the DMs are new, because it makes the PCs a bit more resilient against DM mistakes. Again, talk with her and see what her preferences are. This is her time to start to find what she likes, and she needs to also talk comprimise with the players and see what they like. To me, it looks like symptoms of lazy/bad DM'ing, and it makes me not want to play. It seems like she's handing out spells and items so as not to have to deal with game mechanics. Or, maybe it's because I put a lot of time into my campaign and it's going to irritate me to be in one that sounds less thought out. Am I just being a jerk and should I play anyway? Or if not, any recommendations on how to break it to this person that I don't want to play in her campaign without offending her? It's certainly not lazy or bad DMing. Those items aren't overpowering for a 1st level group, they won't break the game like a +5 vorpal sword either. Remember this is her chance to find how she likes to DM. I personally prefer to DM higher level games, have faster character progression and more loot progression than most games because I never run out of ideas on plot hooks and villians that may be obstacles for the PCs from level 1-20. Lazy or Bad DMing is very apparent by the fact of actually seeing how sessions go - where the DM obviously favors a player, constantly railroads, or does some other radical behavior that destroys the fun of the game. I don't know if this is her first time DMing, but think back to the first time you DMed. Did you know everything? Did you make as amazing stories and intriguing NPCs back when you started as you now? If you're going to enjoy being a player, it's ideal that you let go of feelings of control, and accept that every DM does things a different way. It's hard for a lot of DMs to be a player in campaigns after being a DM because they are used to everything going their way. Even if your players all say "I don't want to play a level 1 character anymore, lets all do a level 10 adventure" you still are in control, even if you'd prefer to run a level 1 adventure. So if you don't think you can sit back, and not be in the spotlight anymore, it shouldn't be that hard to say "I don't think I could be a good player for your campaign." Far too often, I see people saying "how do I tell my DM/Player I don't want to play with them, but I can't do that because I have other social obligations to that person?" These people are too afraid to say something they want to say because they are afraid it may have more consequences to it than simply saying what they want to say. What are the additional consequences? It varies, but if there are, there's obviously a problem between the two people's relationship. It's not a D&D problem, it's a problem between two people, and that needs to be resolved however the individual deals with social situations like that. I can give advice on what I'd do, but we all have different social values, so it's really upto each individual to fix it. Once you have that figured out, you should be able to make your decision on whether you want to play, and how you're going to go about your dicision.
Animae_Draconum 12-10-06, 04:14 AM	its not supposed to be played very long it teaches DM rule 0 AD
Chrono Nexus 12-10-06, 01:20 PM	I sometimes start my players with boons. These include Ring of Colors: Changes 1 object or creature to a neon shade, the change lasts 1 hour. Boots of Dryness: These shoes' insides are magically dry. They'll keep your feet dry even when immersed! Compass: A character can spend one minute to find true north with this item. Magnetic influence will disrupt it and interfere with the results. Map of Region: A detailed map of the area, within 30 miles. Bonus 4d4 x 10 gp- the player receives some kind of inheritance or gift of 4d4x10 gp sometime during play. Random Intelligent Item- This otherwise mundane item is intelligent, and can speak common. It has no powers or special senses. Troll in a Jar- This jar contains the part of a troll that regenerates. Breaking or opening the jar releases the part.. within a few minutes, the chunk regenerates into a full grown troll. +1 Skill item: The player has a trinket or item that grants a +1 bonus on a skill of his choice. Donkey- The player starts play with a donkey. Coin of lies- The player gains a special magic coin. It always lands on the face it's owner desires. It requires one day for the coin to attune to a new owner. You should try out the players game. It might be fun. If it isn't, then no loss.
Matthew77 12-10-06, 10:24 PM	My advice: Join the campaign. Play by her rules. Go into it with your objective being to support and encourage a beginning DM. Don't get attached to your character, don't play to win. In fact, pretend you are a co-DM playing an NPC. (if she's up to it, make this offer formally so you can advise and maybe run monsters in some of the more complicated fights.) Give her gentle advice about rulings and game mechanics without being a jerk. Our hobby needs as many new DMs as it can get, and the only way to make sure a new DM becomes a great DM is to give them encouragement and advice, not to make their first experience horrible by calling her names and trying to break her game.
Ashok_Lal 12-11-06, 12:51 AM	Hi there, I've been DM'ing a campaign for a group of players for a little while, and occasionally work calls me away from our gaming night. I was kind of hoping that they would work on their characters or do some sort of in-character thing with each other, but instead one of the players decided to start her own campaign. Which is cool. IS it cool?? Or do you think she is hyjacking your campaign & playing nite? You sure you are not a bit bitter. Don't feel bad if you do, after all that's what she's done. That does'nt mean that you can't play & have fun. So far, what I've heard includes: "She wants you to play a wizard. She may want you to play an Arcane caster of some sort. Why does she want you to play the Wizard? Maybe she thinks you can best bring the charicter to life with your knowlage of the magic system & spells. However, they want me to play now. You can put any spell in your spellbook and you start at level 2 with a ring of sustenance and a handy haversack." SO? Just takes out boring boggy bits The stats she's giving the players add up to something like a 62 point buy. Apparently, every character gets the ring and the sack... its' that sort of thing. 62 point buy! Bah! i've seen higher scores on 4d6 keep highest 3d6 generation. But it can get a bit boring after a while. To me, it looks like symptoms of lazy/bad DM'ing, and it makes me not want to play. It seems like she's handing out spells and items so as not to have to deal with game mechanics. To this point I think you are probably right. Has she DMed before? if not then these are the sort of things that realy bog down new DMs. Or, maybe it's because I put a lot of time into my campaign and it's going to irritate me to be in one that sounds less thought out. Not everybody can micromanage everything. its a good cop out. Am I just being a jerk NO! I think you have some reasons for your gripe. Hyjacked game. short cuts. high power campaign. and should I play anyway? If you can rise above the negetive thoughts that you are feeling & PLAY then yes. If you plan to play just to watch her fail (& maybe help a little to make that happen, then NO. At least give it a go. You never know you might be plesantly surprised. Or if not, any recommendations on how to break it to this person that I don't want to play in her campaign without offending her? *At least give it a go. You never know you might be plesantly surprised.[/B] *Tell her that you are small & petty & you don't want to play her game. *Find inside yourself the real reason you don't play. then you can tell her the truth. (however this may offend her) *If she has offended you by hyjacking your game then let her know this one on one. *From there you might work things out by sorting your stories out. Finding things out first hand. Things might/might not be as bad as you feared. Thanks. Your welcome
Newpaintbrush 12-11-06, 01:41 AM	Ashok_Lal's quote: "*Tell her that you are small & petty & you don't want to play her game. *Find inside yourself the real reason you don't play. then you can tell her the truth. (however this may offend her) ... Seriously. -- I'd take the ring of sustenance and handy haversack, sell them, and get some REAL magic items. Real abusable. zomg teh full spellbook!
nastynate 12-11-06, 02:49 AM	This sounds like a scenario where the other gamers want to play every week, and your work duties make it impossible for you be there as consistently as they would like. Its only natural for them to support a change of DM under these circumstances (as frustrating as that may be), but it doesn't mean you can't have fun as a player. I agree that the ring and haversack are clearly included to cut down on rather boring details like rations and carrying capacity, but I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing; less bookkeeping for the new DM is probably a good idea. I also feel it is unfortunate that they want you to play a certain class, but do you have any objections to it? The new DM is also probably just trying to round out the party, and hopes you will just go along with it; maybe you should (if for nothing else than to make the new guy's job easier). The real issue here, seems to be that the other gamers abandoned your campaign without ever talking to you about it. Had they the foresight to explain things, there would probably have been less animosity, and these minor details (like the ring and haversack) would not have bothered you so much. You don't sound hostile and seem to be taking things in stride (which is admirable), but I suspect your real objection is completely different than that which you have posted (pay no heed to me if I am wrong). I say give it a go anyway; if it ends up being a good story, all is well (and you have fun as a player), and if it ends up being rather crummy, the other players will want you back in the DM seat in no time. I would however, discuss the pre-selected wizard class with your gaming buddies (if you object to playing one). Its unfair to make you play something you don't want to, and you are right; they should have at least asked you if you minded playing a wizard, instead of telling you to play one. -Peace-
Puritan13 12-11-06, 03:55 AM	Hi there. I have the prescription for what ails you. Play in her game and just have fun. You're over-analyzing it. Just do it and enjoy it.
seldom_seen 12-11-06, 11:07 AM	If this is her first DMing experience, then I say go ahead and play along at first. There is no better way to learn that to jump right in and do it! She has the benefit of an experienced DM running a character in her campaign. You can give her subtle (or not so subtle) hints and tips as you play. But this way, she learns the ropes while minimizing the inevitable mistakes and blunders that ALL DM's make. That being said, If she is not receptive of your assistance, or is otherwise bullheaded and is insistent on runnig her campaign into the ground, then let her crash and burn. She needs to learn that she may be the DM, but frequently her players will be just as knowlegable, if not more so, than she is. When they speak out in unison over something she has done (or not done) it behooves her to listen.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 12-11-06, 11:10 AM	Hi there, I've been DM'ing a campaign for a group of players for a little while, and occasionally work calls me away from our gaming night. I was kind of hoping that they would work on their characters or do some sort of in-character thing with each other, but instead one of the players decided to start her own campaign. Which is cool. However, they want me to play now. So far, what I've heard includes: "She wants you to play a wizard. You can put any spell in your spellbook and you start at level 2 with a ring of sustenance and a handy haversack." The stats she's giving the players add up to something like a 62 point buy. Apparently, every character gets the ring and the sack... its' that sort of thing. To me, it looks like symptoms of lazy/bad DM'ing, and it makes me not want to play. It seems like she's handing out spells and items so as not to have to deal with game mechanics. Or, maybe it's because I put a lot of time into my campaign and it's going to irritate me to be in one that sounds less thought out. Am I just being a jerk and should I play anyway? Or if not, any recommendations on how to break it to this person that I don't want to play in her campaign without offending her? Thanks. Your answaer is aparent with the bolded part. You don't want to play, so don't play. It honestly sounds like a style difference. nothing personal you just don't care for the way they are going to run the game. Nothing says you if you don't play D&D with them you don't like them. I would talk to her, and get the low down on the game form her first, but if yaa it makes you not want to play, then don't!
DracoPhoenix 12-11-06, 11:29 AM	If she's a new DM, all 4 arch types are expected and the other 3 are taken, that's probably why you get to be arcane. Spells - just slap down a copy of every book with arcane spells in it and say yeah, I have the largest magical works library in existance..... Or you could be conservative, normal progression allowances and char level x D4/D6 spell levels worth of spells. As for the bag and ring, maybe she's trying to simplify her 1st DM experience by providing measures to bypass the mundane events some / most DMs tend to account for. Our games tend to assume you stock up on arrows off corpses (loot) or in town as appropriate and eat, sleep and ... etc between sessions (though the rest until healed does have to be stated) I'd try and persuade her to switch the ring to one of prestidigitation :) and tell her you'll spend X gold a week (game time) on foodstuffs & drinking water. It's her first run, so you will have to reduce the amount of complex non core issues, at least to start. Though if your not starting at L1, she's causing her own problems. Talk to her directly, find out exactly what she's planning. 62pt buy is a really bad idea first time round -L2 dex bonus to AC will be nuts to start with. If it's too easy, no one will enjoy it as there will be no challenge. Offer advice on DMing, but don't try to tell her how to DM, and be prepared for her style to be different to yours. If you can't guarantee your DM availability, this might work out better all round. With you playing, she will have someone with experience to help with any problems. You may find once she has more experience you can work together and weave your campaign into hers somehow. But I wouldn't ditch the campaign based on 3rd party information. Play a few sessions and see if any kinks can be worked out.