Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Radijs 06-05-05, 07:48 PM	Its not really a problem. Its actually kind of fun. In a party one of the players plays a 16 year old human paladin of heroneious(sp) who is very zealous in her lawful good ways. The rest of the party is chaotic good or chaotic neutral and I recently introduced my new character a 25 year old warmage also a human. One of the 'favorite' things the paladin does is yanking sinners by their ears and dunking them in cold water. Naturally this happens all the time to many characters so when my character heard about that he warned the paladin that if she ever did that to him he'd make sure she'd spend the next two weeks piecing her armor back together again. This made her a little angry but it shut her up. Now my question is what are more amusing ways to tell this little girl that she should mind her place?
Destiny_Forgot_me 06-05-05, 08:59 PM	Could tell her you know where a Rust-Monster lives, so until she wants a dust pan and broome for the next time she picks up her sword. tell her she's fat, that always goes down well with the ladies! heh heh 'I'm not anywhere with you with you dressed like that!' 'I think your pie is burning, shouldn't you be checking the oven about now?'
Maerdash 06-05-05, 11:11 PM	Get your hands on some metal, point at it and cast the shatter spell and tell her unless she wants to get all new shiny stuff that she should leave you alone.
Ssussunriyh 06-05-05, 11:20 PM	tell her she's fat, that always goes down well with the ladies! heh heh "That outfit makes your butt look huge. All the better for you to sit in judgement of others, my dear?"
Flushmaster 06-06-05, 01:52 AM	I would suggest, seriously, finding a way to make her question her own actions. The whole "judge not lest ye be judged yourself" thing. Really, if a truly pious individual (or character, in this case) can be made to even double check themselves just once then they'll stop to think just about every time after that. Granted, in most situations that you ask her why she's doing something or if her actions are correct she'll say that it's in line with Heironious' teachings or such, but it'll be worth it if you can find one situation that's right to say "Now, really, it that what Heironious would do?" Simply provoking a conflict with an avid fanatic is asking for a fight and nothing else; no agreement, just violence, regardless of whether it's a "good" or "evil" fanatic. This of course assumes that the player is doing a good and deliberate job of roleplaying the character. If it's a self righteous player then there's no way of convincing the character otherwise, except a threat of brute force that makes the player fearful for their character. If it is a good roleplayer who can (and does) seperate themselves from their character then you should, as suggested above, try to confuse the character by making her question herself.
HappyDragon 06-06-05, 04:08 AM	Here's a crazy notion, instead of trying to alienate the poor girl which will lead to only worse retaliations than yanking of ears....Try befriending the Paladin, or at least a show of empathy. There must be a reason your group sticks around her aside from her quaint ways of punishment. Play up the positive things she does more and from there maybe suggest that yanking sinners by their ears is not a very appropriate way to deal with evil-doers....hopefully it's a phase she's going through and will grow out of it. (Although on a side note, in comparison to some of the other threads I've read recently on Paladins and their ways of "smiting evil" It sounds like your problem isn't all that bad....merely childish and tiresome, it could be worse) A DM could always illustrate just how immature she's being by introducing another Paladin of Hieronious to the game as an NPC that deals with sinners in a way more befitting the cloth they wear. Through diplomacy, tact and the occassionaly well thought out Smite, the NPC gains much more respect and reknown than any little brat parading in a costume of the faith could ever hope to attain. How subtley the DM wishes to portray this is entitirely up to them and the conditions of the campaign. As a fellow player, try a similar concept but in a different execution. Tell of stories you've heard of Gary the Gallant Paladin of Heirounious that has earned the love and respect of thousands by simply being the steadfast mind of sound wisdom and reason while evil swirled about, bringing it to heel with his words of faith and sword of justice. (Whether these stories are true or not doesn't really matter) Also point out in other ways that her actions shine on the order she serves....If people find her immature and tiresome, people will start to think the same of her order. If worse comes to worse, yank her by her ear and dunk her in cold water.....declare it karmic justice and she can't complain, she had it coming :D
pres_man 06-06-05, 08:48 AM	Check out this crazy idea. Tell her, "We don't like you. Nobody likes you. And when we get to the next town, we are going to leave you there." Then do it, and have the player roll up a character more in line with the rest of the party. Or if you don't want to be so spiteful, you could always tell her that you all are going to meet somewhere and then never show up.
Callista 06-06-05, 10:30 AM	Check out this crazy idea. Tell her, "We don't like you. Nobody likes you. And when we get to the next town, we are going to leave you there." Then do it, and have the player roll up a character more in line with the rest of the party. Or if you don't want to be so spiteful, you could always tell her that you all are going to meet somewhere and then never show up.Uhm, did you actually READ the original post? The guy says it's not a problem--he just wants RP ideas, because it might be a problem for his character. Totally not the same thing--annoying the character can be very fun for his player.
snowlynx 06-06-05, 10:55 AM	If there are copper dragons in your game....hire one to sit on her for 24 hours. Ask it to tell a pun every time she gets upset at it. I think this is one of those situations where what you need to do is directly in line with what the world is like. Use whatever's nearby; for example, if she likes dunking them in cold water, you might as well throw a ice cold bucket of water at her the next time she does it. (I'm not certain- will ray of frost help cool the water?) You might also cast spells to miss (a foot away from her) if you can be certain they won't hit her.
kam_Islash 06-06-05, 11:42 AM	16 is more like a "teenager" which is probably worse than "little girl" in terms of feistyness. But if you call her little she might get ******, because I know when I was 16 I hated being called a kid. ///
Callista 06-06-05, 12:20 PM	16-year-olds are not kids; not in a pseudo-medieval society where you can have your first child at 14. If your campaign takes that from medieval life, then a 16-year-old is a young man or woman... still quite wet behind the ears, but considered an adult nevertheless.
Thanatos02 06-06-05, 12:38 PM	Except that in D&D, 16 years old is still a kid. The life expectantcy is about the same as our own, if not a little higher, so our ages are approx. Now, "putting the girl in her place" should have some interesting effects. I think anyone seriously trying to do so is liable to have a fiesty warrior on their hands. I imagine rowdy bar-room toughs trying to get frisky or attempting to tell her to get back into the kitchen with getting a sheild upside their head. ^.~ And besides, dunking the unrightious in a barrel of water isn't exactly the nastiest punishment I can think of. Pretty funny, if you ask me. XD If the rest of the PCs are getting tired, they could try asking a cleric of Heironious to advise her and maybe ask her to tone it down. (Of course, it would be more amusing if the Cleric just egged her on!)
Thoronmir 06-06-05, 12:42 PM	My first question is whether the Paladin’s player is as annoying as the character … in other words, is the player simply roleplaying “immature” or is he/she guilty of a little “type casting”? As long as the player knows the difference, I agree with the OP that this situation can be fun for all involved. The OP has a few options for how to play his PC’s reaction to the Paladin. He can, as some have suggested, opt to aggravate the Paladin by mocking her, minimizing her importance to the party, etc. If it were me, however, I’d try to see the Paladin for what she is … an immature young adult endowed with significant power and charged with the burden of enforcing an idealized life philosophy. I could be wrong, but that seems like a lot for a 16-year-old to take on. Perhaps the Paladin’s player is hoping someone will rise to the bait and roleplay along with his character. Perhaps the Paladin needs a parental figure in her life. Perhaps she just needs to have someone grab her by the ear and dunk her head into a barrel of water
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-06-05, 01:18 PM	Mittens with sovreign glue inside. Trust me ;)
kam_Islash 06-06-05, 01:25 PM	I forget what movie its from, but theres always this line: "Youre ugly when youre angry" ///
mikevw2 06-06-05, 01:57 PM	That line is from Spaceballs.
Turkleader 06-06-05, 02:24 PM	A paladin in a group of Chaotic characters? That explains why that paladin is not being loved and being agreed... And why being tried to be shut ;) With my respects...
Radijs 06-06-05, 06:20 PM	Thousands of thank yous and cookies for everyone. All these ideas are really good. Its almost too bad that we're not playing that campaign tomorrow. But in the campaign tomorrow I've got the eye of a Balor. *evil laughter Blofeld style*
kam_Islash 06-06-05, 06:57 PM	That line is from Spaceballs. Thank you. Ever since reading this thread its been bugging the hell outta me. ///
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 06-06-05, 11:32 PM	I would have some of her superiors come down on her for being "spiteful and cruel". But, then again, I'm a Richard like that. ;)
TheUnknownZombie 06-06-05, 11:43 PM	I've seen a party where the realtionship between the Paladin and the CN Warlock became a little strained. Then they ended up saving each other's lives in an ambush and have become close friends. It's like a buddy movie, but with orcs.
Yruc 06-07-05, 01:37 AM	does the paladin have a mount? Sell / give away tickets to ride it at the next town :) Comfort the people she dunks, have a towel ready and comfort them saying something loud enough for the paladin to hear, yeah she does this a lot, maybe one day, she will actually take a bath for herself instead of making others, cause you know her armor sells a bit ripe. Haha how about.. you have Prestidigitation? If so maybe this could teach her some humility and that something is not right. After she dunks the next person, Use Prestidigitation to make the dunked person clean and dry right before the paladin's eyes and then make the paladin wet and soiled. Its got a range of 10 feet so you should be able to do it without being noticed. If the paladin asks/says anything about it, say that maybe its a sign from her god not to do that kind of foolish thing..
allenchan 06-07-05, 03:46 AM	Hopefully, the Paladin would realize that such a threat by your pc is challenging the might of heroneious and should be viewed as an act of evil. Anything that is counter to an avatar of such must be evil and stricken from the material plane, and she will coup de grace your warmage in their sleep.
IceFractal 06-07-05, 05:27 AM	Research a spell that turns water into hard liquor, just temporarily, at range. Then, the next time she dunks someone, cast it. Wait a round, then "happen" to look closer and act surprised "You're getting him drunk? I though you were against that kind of thing?" Sure, she may suspect it's you, but can she prove it? And, of course, there's the old favorite - use Prestidigitation to paint her armor wierd patterns. Maybe put smiley faces on it for irony, or little cartoon demons to tick her off.
Retsej Esiw 06-07-05, 10:28 AM	It's like a buddy movie, but with orcs. :heehee
Radijs 06-07-05, 12:18 PM	She just got a mount! Stealing it is not for my character but if she gets on my bad sid I'm gonna be giving away ride tickets like crazy in the next town. Prestidigation isnt one of my spells but our illusionist might have it.
angryman 06-07-05, 12:25 PM	I would suggest that, the next time she dunks your head in water, to grapple her back and dunk her head in water. "Goddam it you uptight little brat, I will not be lectured to by a kid!"
Yak of Darkness 06-07-05, 12:37 PM	Anyone else watched The Slayers? If nothing else, do what any other self-respecting CN magic type does when adventuring with an overzealous teenage paladin rediculously devoted to justice: somehow convince her that you're not only on the side of all that is right, but that you can help her increase her abilities, too. It will usually work. :D
Mirikon 06-07-05, 12:49 PM	Three Spells that will humble your paladin. Shatter, Hold Person, Prestigitation. Shatter - Destroy her armor, preferably in public or while she is dunking someone. Hold Person - Keep her from doing anything until the torment is over. Prestigitation - cause any clothing not affected by the Shatter spell to fall to the ground.
kam_Islash 06-07-05, 01:48 PM	brassiers weigh less than a pound ;) ///
Gedrin 06-07-05, 02:14 PM	Use the church elder. The church elder is your friend. See...the church has given this a lot of thought, and physical force only conforms to the ideal of Justice under certain circumstances. She can't go around using force like that on everyone just because they do something wrong. To conform to the ideals of Law and Good must recognise the severty of the wrong and be tempered by Wisdom and Mercy, only then can one act for Justice. In other words, the church isn't going to put up with someone doing this. They'll take her aside, offer a bit of advice to curb her actions. One of the great advantages to the whole LG thing is the advice and council of your orginization. The DM and PC can both take advantage of that tool.
dngnb8 06-07-05, 02:18 PM	Simple, tell her if she attempts to proselytize you, you will give her a fireball enema that will give her enough heartburn to light up Waterdeep for a season.
Bruunwald 06-07-05, 04:19 PM	I, too have a Paladin of H new to my game. What is it with these guys that they're all so zealous? The realm he's in is mainly devoted to Pelor (it's a frontier kind of place with lots of human farms and sort of common men). I give him a nice balance. I remind him subtley how many adherents of Pelor are around him, but I also let him interest or even convert the occasional soldier. Thankfully, he doesn't dunk anyone. Humility would be a good lesson. A paladin needs it. How about she dunks someone and their mom finds out, and she comes out and scolds her? That might even her out a little. Or another goodly order finds out she's converting their more gullible adherents? Same sort of thing.
eudas 06-07-05, 05:19 PM	Three Spells that will humble your paladin. Shatter, Hold Person, Prestigitation. Shatter - Destroy her armor, preferably in public or while she is dunking someone. Hold Person - Keep her from doing anything until the torment is over. Prestigitation - cause any clothing not affected by the Shatter spell to fall to the ground. 1. shatter: magical armor, shields, and weaponry are not shatterable. 2. hold person: granted, it's a will save, but a decent wisdom combined with divine grace goes a long way towards negating the "easy gimme" of this tactic. 3. prestidigitation: i dunno if that'd work or not, but a swift ass-kicking dealt out by a naked paladin to a certain obnoxious, easy-to-grapple mage should go a long way to make sure that this doesn't happen again. eudas
Mirikon 06-07-05, 05:22 PM	Well, if you really wanna put the paladin in her place, there's always Mindrape. One moment you have a Paladin. The next you have an obedient Paladin serving wench.
Callista 06-07-05, 05:49 PM	Umm... I think he mentioned he was CN? Not CE?
Maerdash 06-08-05, 04:07 AM	Ahh another good one see my sig for a use of prestidigitation that can easily be used on the paladin when she's scolding/dunking people
Radijs 06-08-05, 04:17 PM	We're both level 3-4 there aren't any magic weapons yet save my bow. I'm a WARMAGE so I'm mostly restricted to spells which fall under evocation and conjuration. And indeed I am neutral not evil I'm not going to hurt the paladin. I still want to get a chance in bed with her in the future.
snowlynx 06-08-05, 04:51 PM	Heh...you should be flirting with her every time she starts punishing someone, then. Get her flowers or something, and compliment her every time she tries to dunk them. Maybe her attitude will change out of embarrasment.
crazysamaritan 06-08-05, 04:54 PM	And indeed I am neutral not evil I'm not going to hurt the paladin. I still want to get a chance in bed with her in the future. :uh-huh: 16?... tmitmitmitmitmimtmitmitmitmitmi :banghead:
Radijs 06-08-05, 05:47 PM	I'm thinking far future. The way she is now no way.
Callista 06-08-05, 05:54 PM	:uh-huh: 16?... tmitmitmitmitmimtmitmitmitmitmi :banghead:Uhm... 16 is grown up. Adult, according to D&D. And for all you know, his character might be 18 or even younger. D&D characters tend to start out young.
moustache guy 06-08-05, 08:59 PM	When she starts to grab someone's ear to dunk them, stop her, take the person's ear from her, and dunk them yourself! Be sure to spout a verse or two on the person's errors. Or, while she dunks, give instructions on how to dunk someone better, or start cheering and see if you can get a gathered crowd to do the wave. Perhaps you could carry around a small cask of water to provide an immediate water source for her to dunk people in. Or you could even start a water war!
Flushmaster 06-09-05, 01:02 AM	While she's dunking somebody's head in a barrel of water or a stream, spring, etc, she's probably leaning forward and not in the most well-balanced position. Make an arrangement with another PC that one of you graps her ankles and lifts while the other pushes her upper body down. The other person gets dunked, but she gets tossed in. When she asks why you did that, tell her that she deserved it and you were merely following her example of "justice." Maybe she'll get the hint then.
Shard Avengard 06-09-05, 10:37 AM	When she goes to dunk you... Ready action - Cast alter self. (Or better yet, cast alter self, then provoke a dunking) When she dunks you, use alter self to breath water.... PLAY DEAD.... make yer face turn blue, the whole 9 yards... =) After "coming back to life". Tell her Heironious is upset at her behavior! and tell her she owe's you something... quest, loyalty, ect....
High Octane 06-09-05, 12:27 PM	Higher level paladin intervening.
Valgaav 06-09-05, 07:23 PM	When she goes to dunk you... Ready action - Cast alter self. (Or better yet, cast alter self, then provoke a dunking) When she dunks you, use alter self to breath water.... PLAY DEAD.... make yer face turn blue, the whole 9 yards... =) After "coming back to life". Tell her Heironious is upset at her behavior! and tell her she owe's you something... quest, loyalty, ect.... Y'know, outta all of the stuff we've come up with, that one is the best one so far. I approve! :D
Radijs 06-09-05, 07:42 PM	When she goes to dunk you... Ready action - Cast alter self. (Or better yet, cast alter self, then provoke a dunking) When she dunks you, use alter self to breath water.... PLAY DEAD.... make yer face turn blue, the whole 9 yards... =) After "coming back to life". Tell her Heironious is upset at her behavior! and tell her she owe's you something... quest, loyalty, ect.... I am so going to do that or make our illusionist do that! DAMN thats a helluva good idea!
Shard Avengard 06-10-05, 03:17 PM	Make sure the DM is in on the gig... so (s)he can really play up the Return to Life angle. And of course you gotta act like she really killed the lil guy (out of character) ie: somebody act mad, someone act shocked, someone open a book and nod at the fact he did indeed "drown". The more you "sell it" the better the gag. =) Enjoy! ps: make sure to tell us how it turned out.
dasneakygit 06-10-05, 05:06 PM	If she does dunk you some how rather than physical violence tell her she has incured the ultimate wrath and you will have her begging for you to accept her apology then use prestidigation to make all her food taste aweful everytime she goes to eat. water tastes like spoiled milk, soup tastes like an orc's bath water. etc etc
Trakx 06-11-05, 02:38 PM	does the paladin have a mount? Sell / give away tickets to ride it at the next town :) Comfort the people she dunks, have a towel ready and comfort them saying something loud enough for the paladin to hear, yeah she does this a lot, maybe one day, she will actually take a bath for herself instead of making others, cause you know her armor sells a bit ripe. Haha how about.. you have Prestidigitation? If so maybe this could teach her some humility and that something is not right. After she dunks the next person, Use Prestidigitation to make the dunked person clean and dry right before the paladin's eyes and then make the paladin wet and soiled. Its got a range of 10 feet so you should be able to do it without being noticed. If the paladin asks/says anything about it, say that maybe its a sign from her god not to do that kind of foolish thing.. :rofl: That's brilliant! Great ideas!
Trakx 06-11-05, 02:43 PM	Well, if you really wanna put the paladin in her place, there's always Mindrape. One moment you have a Paladin. The next you have an obedient Paladin serving wench. Where do I find this spell? ...and I assume it's arcane, or is it psionic?
Valgaav 06-11-05, 07:09 PM	Where do I find this spell? ...and I assume it's arcane, or is it psionic? Book Of Vile Darkness. that should say it all.
Dalar Ragnos 06-11-05, 08:41 PM	The BoVD contains all the answers you need, my friend. :smirk: Except that you're not evil... meh. :twitch: One option would be to sneak up on her while she sleeps, strip her naked and tie her hands behind her back. Then make her run through the local village/town, being sure to make a commotion so that everyone comes out to stare. That'll teach her some manners...
Meshakhad 06-11-05, 09:53 PM	Get her to change her tactics. Suggest a good scolding (I would rule as some usage of Intimidate).
General_Ridley 06-12-05, 03:02 PM	Programmed Amnesia from CA can take care of her little problems by making her not know she even had them to begin with, thoroughly eliminating them.
Nani? 06-13-05, 02:17 AM	Programmed Amnesia from CA can take care of her little problems by making her not know she even had them to begin with, thoroughly eliminating them. Along those lines, have a Rogue type character (or god?) steal her heart (Anything he says is taken as a suggestion) and go about corrupting/curing her that way. Or better yet, arrange a marrige (collecting her brideprice) or sell her into slavery. She has a high charisma probably so she might be worth a pretty penny. All the best, Nani?
gleep 06-13-05, 04:13 PM	It's probably too late in the campaign for this to work well, but here it is anyway: Explain to her that her "ritual cleansing" of a person's head to show her devotion is touching on her part, but you are shocked, appalled and even horrified at her promiscuity! She is proposing not just marriage but undying devotion to all those men and (and *shock* women too?) with one of your people's most sacred ceremonies! Then burst into tears and run away. :D --gleep
PlutoniumKnight 06-14-05, 01:23 AM	I like the idea of waking her up about 2 in the morning by dumping a bucket of water on her head an saying rise and shine, a paladin shouldn't be lazy, oh no sir. You should be taking people and dunking them in water. Than muss her hair and saying you are going back to sleep.
Dauntless 06-15-05, 01:07 AM	Some of the suggestions in this thread make me glad I'll never play in a game with any of you. Programmed Amnesia? Mindrape? Running her naked through town? Selling into slavery? If any of these are legitimate suggestions in your minds, I'm rather disturbed. :nonono:
Nani? 06-15-05, 02:15 AM	Some of the suggestions in this thread make me glad I'll never play in a game with any of you. Programmed Amnesia? Mindrape? Running her naked through town? Selling into slavery? If any of these are legitimate suggestions in your minds, I'm rather disturbed. :nonono: They are for an amoral CN character dealing with a Lawful obnoxius character. I do not deny they are straight out evil in many cases. They are not things I would condone, but I'm going off what that character might condone. This is also a character type I personally would not play, however, I will give advice for. All the Best, Nani?
solbergb 06-16-05, 05:11 PM	Yo...if you want women to continue the hobby don't do scenes where their (or other party member) characters get abused sexually. This is similar to don't kill small children on-camera when parents are at the table. People are very irrational about this stuff, it hits too close to home for many of them, and you won't know that you have crossed the line until they get extremely ****** and walk away, then badmouth your entire table to everyone they know. Stick to things like making her food taste bad, convincing her she's doing a sacred ritual in public and you're astonished etc. Or flirting with the char incharacter then dumping her..incharacter. Keep it PG and you won't risk a sudden nasty out-of-character reaction.
High King Tigernmas 06-17-05, 04:23 AM	Seduce her and find out she likes it dirty, then threaten to tell anyone if she dunks you :)