Dealing with "racist" NPC? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dealing with "racist" NPC? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Solfair
02-07-07, 05:45 PM We're currently playing a campaign where most of our characters are Of a good or mildly neutral alignment. (In the Forgotten realms campaign setting). Currently our party consists of 2 human, 1 elf , 1 dwarf, and a half orc.

However, for some reason our DM has decided upon putting an emphasis on the elves disdain for other races, humans in particular, which until now has been nothing more than a burden. (Basically we've stayed away from Elf-NPC's as much as possible)

Recently however the campaign started to change and we're now searching for lost elven artifacts. Basically the elf of the party is eager to help out, but as there is absolutley no possibility for a Non-elf to recieve any sort of reward for this task, the others are not.

This is starting to become a problem, as the elf of our group starts to symphatize withthe racial view of our "employers" , which of course causes a lot of internal grudges.

Has anyone delt with a similar issue? How can this situation be resolved in such a way that the party does NOT have to work for the racistic elves, but still allow the Elf players of the party to be able to remain in the adventuring group?
(This is particulary inportant, as there soon will be another elf- character joining.)
Fatalis_902
02-07-07, 06:09 PM It's pretty straight-forward, really. Meet with your employers and the elven PC(s), and have the non-elves set a list of requirements and an ultimatum. The requirements would be simple, such as fair treatment in all elven lands while on this quest, and a reward equal to that of the elven PC(s) for the non-elves. If the requirements are not met, the party leaves and does something for more fair employers, with OR without the elven PC(s). The requirements would have to be met, and a binding contract signed, by the ultimatum, perhaps a week or so, or the party finds new employers. If the elven PC(s) are unwilling to try to talk the other members of their race into making a deal with the party, and value their race more than their friends and travelling companions, then they are not worth travelling with. If the elves double-cross you, as they very-well may, you just keep the artifacts for yourselves, and maybe ransom them back to the elves. That's all you have to do. Just amke your point known to your employers, set an ultimatum for your demands, and if your employers bow to your wishes, do the quest. If not, then do not do the quest, instead choosing to work for less racsist employers.
Templetroll
02-07-07, 06:16 PM What Fatalis_902 said.

There is a plotline in the FR about racist elves; that may be what your DM is working with. Your following the above advice may generate a heated exchange but you should know something more about it by the end. If your DM frowns alot during it then you will know even more. :)
willpower
02-07-07, 06:18 PM Has anyone delt with a similar issue? How can this situation be resolved in such a way that the party does NOT have to work for the racistic elves, but still allow the Elf players of the party to be able to remain in the adventuring group?
(This is particulary inportant, as there soon will be another elf- character joining.)

Its called roleplaying. This is a perfectly valid situation for a roleplaying game, and one that can and shold cause internal strife for the group. This can end up badly, but more often than not it turns out to be a really good roleplaying situation.

As for solutions, here are a couple. Tell the Elf, that if he wants to help these people that have been a thorn in your side, then he is going it alone. Him and the DM then have a solo session at an off time, or they simply email each other to establish what has happened for the characters personal story. You could also try to disguise your characters to look like elves for a while. (maybe try a rice picking machine accident) You could also have a confrontation with the elf employers in question, and establish where everyone stands on the situation, telling them you will absolutely not help them unless you are assured of certain things. etc. etc.
Fatalis_902
02-07-07, 06:19 PM What Fatalis_902 said.

Can I sig that? Is that siggable?

EDIT: Screw it, I'm sigging it.
Solfair
02-07-07, 06:40 PM Unfortunatly there's a big chanse that our DM and the elf player will be able to force us to go along with the elven demands. So there will not be much room for any negotiations.

If there's an "event" in the FR setting maybe the Dm is advertantly trying to cause conflict within the group or something.

Still it seems as if most of you think that the non-elf PC's should ignore the elves and let them choose their side in this.

We have no problem with roleplaying within our group, still would be really hard for new character to enter the group in its current state.

Thanks for the replies!
Callista
02-07-07, 07:27 PM Well, you are a team. How close are the PCs, as friends? If they like each other, they could easily make an arrangement like this:

"OK, Elf PC, we'll help you 'cause we like you; but you're going to have to deal with those prissy clan-mates of yours. We'll split the reward equally; it's only fair. But once this is over, we're staying as far away from uppity pointed-eared people as possible, got it?"
DarkNick
02-07-07, 07:49 PM Unfortunatly there's a big chanse that our DM and the elf player will be able to force us to go along with the elven demands. So there will not be much room for any negotiations.

I don't really get this bit. How can they force you to go along with the elven demands? You can always refuse - use passive resistance.

Fatalis_902 summed it up pretty good.
Fatalis_902
02-07-07, 08:47 PM Fatalis_902 summed it up pretty good.

I like this thread. My ego pad is growing, I think, and I am getting praise. It makes me feel good.

On topic, since I seem to be good at this, the DM and the other players cannot force you or your character to do anything. If you and the non-elf PCs do not want to go along with things as they are, you don't have to. You can leave the elven lands, or you can try to negotiate with someone, either the elf PC, or the quest-giving elves. The worst that can happen is that the DM kills your characters in some fasion, either with NPCs, or other PCs. If that happens, you should really re-evaluate the DM and whichever PCs betrayed you. DMs who kill characters for not following their carefully crafted stories should probably not be DMs, at least until they learn to improvise. But, seriously, try to work it out. This could develop into some juicy roleplaying, and could be really fun, as long as your DM is willing to use logic and be fair.
Mikal
02-07-07, 09:51 PM Get the artifacts, and rather then give them to the uppity elves, keep'em for yourselves or sell them to the Drow, Thayans, whoever you want. If the elf pc gets whiny, gut him.

Seriously, if the elves are becoming racist, giving them items will only make them more bold, so give them to the elven enemies. They're a bunch of uppity punks with an over inflated sense of self worth anyway. Show the two elves who aren't still in Evermeet exactly what happens when you act like jerks.
Sigmaticus
02-08-07, 03:49 AM Wouldn't not giving the Elves the items make them more racist toward others? "Those humans could not be trusted. No human can be trusted!"
LoNLinaChan
02-08-07, 03:59 AM Personally I'd just turn down the job if the elf waivers tell him you can not work for those who bare evil tendancies (and yes racism is evil). this will confuse the elf but if he persist fire him and hire a new pc. Remember "It might be your rules and your game. But I don't have to play" Largo WWW.MEGATOKYO.COM
geekling
02-08-07, 05:00 AM I like this thread. My ego pad is growing, I think, and I am getting praise. It makes me feel good.

On topic, since I seem to be good at this, the DM and the other players cannot force you or your character to do anything.

So time to take it down a peg or two then.

Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that.

Little thing called Geas - just to mention one.
There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves.

Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game.
bob_the_great
02-08-07, 08:57 AM as has been mentioned overcoming racism is a great opportunity for roleplaying. you can approach it that way.

myself, I find stuff like that laborious and more of a hassle than it is worth. maybe the reason i tend to play neautral characters, or that my good characters tend to lean neutral, is that it allows me to work around crap like this. just say no. if the racist elves want your help they can either pay you handsomely or simply treat you with respect while paying you.

that's usually when they try to lure you in with stuff like "but the world will come to an end." Eh, not my problem. Some band of paladins can take care of it.

If the DM has a direction he really wants the game to go he should get you there happily. You don't have to follow his desire for you to work for the elves. If you "have to," meaning he'll force it upon you, then he's probably a crappy DM.

Also, you don't have to deal with other PCs who annoy you. I had a game where we consciously and regularly kept the Paladin out of the loop because we didn't want to deal with her objections. I'd say that whenever you deal with a non-elf NPC and the elf chimes in smack him over the head, say "quiet you," and apologize to the NPC for the rude elf.

oh, were my suggestions supposed to be constructive? whoops, dropped the ball there.
LoNLinaChan
02-08-07, 09:13 AM So time to take it down a peg or two then.

Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that.

Little thing called Geas - just to mention one.
There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves.

Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game.

aparently you haven't read Geas in a while. if you got 19 hp defy the spell and move over to the cleric for a heal. the spell only deals 3d6 of damage a day. thats it. they can deny it easier then you can cast it. oh and by the way gerring tired of the gaes damage? inverst in a ring of protection from evil then the gaes is permenately supressed. what your evil get prot good they all do it. oh look the high level mage just wasted a good spell slot cause wotc likes nurf
Mikal
02-08-07, 09:40 AM Wouldn't not giving the Elves the items make them more racist toward others? "Those humans could not be trusted. No human can be trusted!"

Eh, odds are they'll be like that anyway. That's the problem with racists. They don't care about logic. Thus, if your only reasonable options are give them the items and let them remain racist or keep the items and let them remain racist, you might as well keep the items.
geekling
02-08-07, 10:21 AM aparently you haven't read Geas in a while. if you got 19 hp defy the spell and move over to the cleric for a heal. the spell only deals 3d6 of damage a day. thats it. they can deny it easier then you can cast it. oh and by the way gerring tired of the gaes damage? inverst in a ring of protection from evil then the gaes is permenately supressed. what your evil get prot good they all do it. oh look the high level mage just wasted a good spell slot cause wotc likes nurf

Being constantly glued to a cleric may heal the HP danage but does nothing against the daily 24 hour sickened condition it also causes if you go against it and fail your daily FORT saving throw.

Sure, the effect can be supressed with a protection from good/evil - if you happen to know the alignment of the one that cast it on you.
A protection from evil on a good character does only protect that character from attacks and mind control etc. done by evil characters/creatures. It is not a blanket protection from all alignments.
And if the caster is a true neutral... when then you're up the creek without a paddle. No protection fron neutral rings... no protection from neutral spells for that matter.

But most of all, it's pretty bad roleplaying just to ignore something like a geas. This isn't something that should be shrugged off with a; oh! well... as long as there's a cleric in the party to heal the HP damage and only a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. For the rest of my bloody life until this bond is broken with a wish/limited wish/miracle or if I can find a cleric of a high enough level to remove it as a curse.
Not unless there's a very good reason not to. Frankly, racists elves don't measure up.
bob_the_great
02-08-07, 10:37 AM Sure, the effect can be supressed with a protection from good/evil - if you happen to know the alignment of the one that cast it on you.
A protection from evil on a good character does only protect that character from attacks and mind control etc. done by evil characters/creatures. It is not a blanket protection from all alignments.
And if the caster is a true neutral... when then you're up the creek without a paddle. No protection fron neutral rings... no protection from neutral spells for that matter.

But most of all, it's pretty bad roleplaying just to ignore something like a geas. This isn't something that should be shrugged off with a; oh! well... as long as there's a cleric in the party to heal the HP damage and only a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. For the rest of my bloody life until this bond is broken with a wish/limited wish/miracle or if I can find a cleric of a high enough level to remove it as a curse.
Not unless there's a very good reason not to. Frankly, racists elves don't measure up.

actually that isn't true. the alignment restriction only applies to warding from attacks. The spell description specifically states "This second effect works regardless of alignment."

and i'll disagree with it being bad roleplaying. if you ask me geas is bad DM'ing, and if a character is stubborn and resourceful enough to successfully fight it then bravo.
geekling
02-08-07, 11:06 AM actually that isn't true. the alignment restriction only applies to warding from attacks. The spell description specifically states "This second effect works regardless of alignment.".

Oh dear! so it does... Learn something new every day and so on.
willpower
02-08-07, 03:30 PM So time to take it down a peg or two then.

Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that.

Little thing called Geas - just to mention one.
There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves.

Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game.

Geas doesn't actually make you do anything. It enforces a particular action, and if you do not, or cannot do said action, you have certain penalties placed upon you. (a sickness) You still do not have to do it, particularly if you get it removed.

edit: Actually I think it might have a touch of compulsion attached to it, but you can still get it removed. It says nothing about you not knowing it is a spell.
Fatalis_902
02-08-07, 04:48 PM So time to take it down a peg or two then.

Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that.

Little thing called Geas - just to mention one.
There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves.

Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game.

Others have said this, but I must defend my self. Fighting one's own battles and all that rubbish.

You DO realise that the worst that can happen with Geas is that you take 3d6 damage eah day you refuse to follow it, and become sickened if you fail a saving throw. Big whoop. On the RP side, if a racsist elf wizard putr a geas on me to work for him, heck yea I would fight it. I could probably talk to someone capable of removing it, or twist it to my own ends. If the geas is, "Retrive these artifacts," the caster worded it poorly, but I would wait until the artifacts were in the casters possession, then retrive them. For me. As for compulsion, if the NPCs can do it, so can the PCs. The PC wizard could use a charm or suggestion spell to convince the caster of the first spell to dismiss the effect. If the DM arbitrarily says that the NPC makes the save, there is a problem. And if you have a DM who throws compulsions on your characters just because they are not taking a particualr quest, there is a problem. It is bigger if other PCs are throwing compulsions on other PCs (some exceptions may apply).
LoNLinaChan
02-08-07, 07:04 PM Being constantly glued to a cleric may heal the HP danage but does nothing against the daily 24 hour sickened condition it also causes if you go against it and fail your daily FORT saving throw.

Sure, the effect can be supressed with a protection from good/evil - if you happen to know the alignment of the one that cast it on you.
A protection from evil on a good character does only protect that character from attacks and mind control etc. done by evil characters/creatures. It is not a blanket protection from all alignments.
And if the caster is a true neutral... when then you're up the creek without a paddle. No protection fron neutral rings... no protection from neutral spells for that matter.

But most of all, it's pretty bad roleplaying just to ignore something like a geas. This isn't something that should be shrugged off with a; oh! well... as long as there's a cleric in the party to heal the HP damage and only a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. For the rest of my bloody life until this bond is broken with a wish/limited wish/miracle or if I can find a cleric of a high enough level to remove it as a curse.
Not unless there's a very good reason not to. Frankly, racists elves don't measure up.

read again little boy alignment of caster doesn't matter the prot supresses all compulsion reguardless of caster alignment. with it suppressed none of the side effects kick. it's not bad roleplaying to ignore a geas it's called a stuborn charactor.
Salla
02-09-07, 02:24 AM The first rule of dangling a plot hook is actually to make it enticing to the PCs. Acting openly snobbish, rude, and racist to people you wish to do you a favor (even if an exchange of gold is involved) is not a good way to convince them to agree to your terms.

The correct response, in-character, is almost certainly 'No thank you', or a paraphrasing thereof.

On the other hand, you *can* turn this to your advantage. Find out what they want, then try to figure out why they want it ... if they're this jerky, they probably don't want to do any good with it. Depending on your level, get with some bards, get a Legend Lore cast, make as many Knowledge: History/Arcana/Religion checks as you can, and find out what these things are for ... and how to destroy them.

Outsmarted by a non-elf! The horror! :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Solfair 02-07-07, 05:45 PM	We're currently playing a campaign where most of our characters are Of a good or mildly neutral alignment. (In the Forgotten realms campaign setting). Currently our party consists of 2 human, 1 elf , 1 dwarf, and a half orc. However, for some reason our DM has decided upon putting an emphasis on the elves disdain for other races, humans in particular, which until now has been nothing more than a burden. (Basically we've stayed away from Elf-NPC's as much as possible) Recently however the campaign started to change and we're now searching for lost elven artifacts. Basically the elf of the party is eager to help out, but as there is absolutley no possibility for a Non-elf to recieve any sort of reward for this task, the others are not. This is starting to become a problem, as the elf of our group starts to symphatize withthe racial view of our "employers" , which of course causes a lot of internal grudges. Has anyone delt with a similar issue? How can this situation be resolved in such a way that the party does NOT have to work for the racistic elves, but still allow the Elf players of the party to be able to remain in the adventuring group? (This is particulary inportant, as there soon will be another elf- character joining.)
Fatalis_902 02-07-07, 06:09 PM	It's pretty straight-forward, really. Meet with your employers and the elven PC(s), and have the non-elves set a list of requirements and an ultimatum. The requirements would be simple, such as fair treatment in all elven lands while on this quest, and a reward equal to that of the elven PC(s) for the non-elves. If the requirements are not met, the party leaves and does something for more fair employers, with OR without the elven PC(s). The requirements would have to be met, and a binding contract signed, by the ultimatum, perhaps a week or so, or the party finds new employers. If the elven PC(s) are unwilling to try to talk the other members of their race into making a deal with the party, and value their race more than their friends and travelling companions, then they are not worth travelling with. If the elves double-cross you, as they very-well may, you just keep the artifacts for yourselves, and maybe ransom them back to the elves. That's all you have to do. Just amke your point known to your employers, set an ultimatum for your demands, and if your employers bow to your wishes, do the quest. If not, then do not do the quest, instead choosing to work for less racsist employers.
Templetroll 02-07-07, 06:16 PM	What Fatalis_902 said. There is a plotline in the FR about racist elves; that may be what your DM is working with. Your following the above advice may generate a heated exchange but you should know something more about it by the end. If your DM frowns alot during it then you will know even more. :)
willpower 02-07-07, 06:18 PM	Has anyone delt with a similar issue? How can this situation be resolved in such a way that the party does NOT have to work for the racistic elves, but still allow the Elf players of the party to be able to remain in the adventuring group? (This is particulary inportant, as there soon will be another elf- character joining.) Its called roleplaying. This is a perfectly valid situation for a roleplaying game, and one that can and shold cause internal strife for the group. This can end up badly, but more often than not it turns out to be a really good roleplaying situation. As for solutions, here are a couple. Tell the Elf, that if he wants to help these people that have been a thorn in your side, then he is going it alone. Him and the DM then have a solo session at an off time, or they simply email each other to establish what has happened for the characters personal story. You could also try to disguise your characters to look like elves for a while. (maybe try a rice picking machine accident) You could also have a confrontation with the elf employers in question, and establish where everyone stands on the situation, telling them you will absolutely not help them unless you are assured of certain things. etc. etc.
Fatalis_902 02-07-07, 06:19 PM	What Fatalis_902 said. Can I sig that? Is that siggable? EDIT: Screw it, I'm sigging it.
Solfair 02-07-07, 06:40 PM	Unfortunatly there's a big chanse that our DM and the elf player will be able to force us to go along with the elven demands. So there will not be much room for any negotiations. If there's an "event" in the FR setting maybe the Dm is advertantly trying to cause conflict within the group or something. Still it seems as if most of you think that the non-elf PC's should ignore the elves and let them choose their side in this. We have no problem with roleplaying within our group, still would be really hard for new character to enter the group in its current state. Thanks for the replies!
Callista 02-07-07, 07:27 PM	Well, you are a team. How close are the PCs, as friends? If they like each other, they could easily make an arrangement like this: "OK, Elf PC, we'll help you 'cause we like you; but you're going to have to deal with those prissy clan-mates of yours. We'll split the reward equally; it's only fair. But once this is over, we're staying as far away from uppity pointed-eared people as possible, got it?"
DarkNick 02-07-07, 07:49 PM	Unfortunatly there's a big chanse that our DM and the elf player will be able to force us to go along with the elven demands. So there will not be much room for any negotiations. I don't really get this bit. How can they force you to go along with the elven demands? You can always refuse - use passive resistance. Fatalis_902 summed it up pretty good.
Fatalis_902 02-07-07, 08:47 PM	Fatalis_902 summed it up pretty good. I like this thread. My ego pad is growing, I think, and I am getting praise. It makes me feel good. On topic, since I seem to be good at this, the DM and the other players cannot force you or your character to do anything. If you and the non-elf PCs do not want to go along with things as they are, you don't have to. You can leave the elven lands, or you can try to negotiate with someone, either the elf PC, or the quest-giving elves. The worst that can happen is that the DM kills your characters in some fasion, either with NPCs, or other PCs. If that happens, you should really re-evaluate the DM and whichever PCs betrayed you. DMs who kill characters for not following their carefully crafted stories should probably not be DMs, at least until they learn to improvise. But, seriously, try to work it out. This could develop into some juicy roleplaying, and could be really fun, as long as your DM is willing to use logic and be fair.
Mikal 02-07-07, 09:51 PM	Get the artifacts, and rather then give them to the uppity elves, keep'em for yourselves or sell them to the Drow, Thayans, whoever you want. If the elf pc gets whiny, gut him. Seriously, if the elves are becoming racist, giving them items will only make them more bold, so give them to the elven enemies. They're a bunch of uppity punks with an over inflated sense of self worth anyway. Show the two elves who aren't still in Evermeet exactly what happens when you act like jerks.
Sigmaticus 02-08-07, 03:49 AM	Wouldn't not giving the Elves the items make them more racist toward others? "Those humans could not be trusted. No human can be trusted!"
LoNLinaChan 02-08-07, 03:59 AM	Personally I'd just turn down the job if the elf waivers tell him you can not work for those who bare evil tendancies (and yes racism is evil). this will confuse the elf but if he persist fire him and hire a new pc. Remember "It might be your rules and your game. But I don't have to play" Largo WWW.MEGATOKYO.COM
geekling 02-08-07, 05:00 AM	I like this thread. My ego pad is growing, I think, and I am getting praise. It makes me feel good. On topic, since I seem to be good at this, the DM and the other players cannot force you or your character to do anything. So time to take it down a peg or two then. Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that. Little thing called Geas - just to mention one. There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves. Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game.
bob_the_great 02-08-07, 08:57 AM	as has been mentioned overcoming racism is a great opportunity for roleplaying. you can approach it that way. myself, I find stuff like that laborious and more of a hassle than it is worth. maybe the reason i tend to play neautral characters, or that my good characters tend to lean neutral, is that it allows me to work around crap like this. just say no. if the racist elves want your help they can either pay you handsomely or simply treat you with respect while paying you. that's usually when they try to lure you in with stuff like "but the world will come to an end." Eh, not my problem. Some band of paladins can take care of it. If the DM has a direction he really wants the game to go he should get you there happily. You don't have to follow his desire for you to work for the elves. If you "have to," meaning he'll force it upon you, then he's probably a crappy DM. Also, you don't have to deal with other PCs who annoy you. I had a game where we consciously and regularly kept the Paladin out of the loop because we didn't want to deal with her objections. I'd say that whenever you deal with a non-elf NPC and the elf chimes in smack him over the head, say "quiet you," and apologize to the NPC for the rude elf. oh, were my suggestions supposed to be constructive? whoops, dropped the ball there.
LoNLinaChan 02-08-07, 09:13 AM	So time to take it down a peg or two then. Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that. Little thing called Geas - just to mention one. There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves. Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game. aparently you haven't read Geas in a while. if you got 19 hp defy the spell and move over to the cleric for a heal. the spell only deals 3d6 of damage a day. thats it. they can deny it easier then you can cast it. oh and by the way gerring tired of the gaes damage? inverst in a ring of protection from evil then the gaes is permenately supressed. what your evil get prot good they all do it. oh look the high level mage just wasted a good spell slot cause wotc likes nurf
Mikal 02-08-07, 09:40 AM	Wouldn't not giving the Elves the items make them more racist toward others? "Those humans could not be trusted. No human can be trusted!" Eh, odds are they'll be like that anyway. That's the problem with racists. They don't care about logic. Thus, if your only reasonable options are give them the items and let them remain racist or keep the items and let them remain racist, you might as well keep the items.
geekling 02-08-07, 10:21 AM	aparently you haven't read Geas in a while. if you got 19 hp defy the spell and move over to the cleric for a heal. the spell only deals 3d6 of damage a day. thats it. they can deny it easier then you can cast it. oh and by the way gerring tired of the gaes damage? inverst in a ring of protection from evil then the gaes is permenately supressed. what your evil get prot good they all do it. oh look the high level mage just wasted a good spell slot cause wotc likes nurf Being constantly glued to a cleric may heal the HP danage but does nothing against the daily 24 hour sickened condition it also causes if you go against it and fail your daily FORT saving throw. Sure, the effect can be supressed with a protection from good/evil - if you happen to know the alignment of the one that cast it on you. A protection from evil on a good character does only protect that character from attacks and mind control etc. done by evil characters/creatures. It is not a blanket protection from all alignments. And if the caster is a true neutral... when then you're up the creek without a paddle. No protection fron neutral rings... no protection from neutral spells for that matter. But most of all, it's pretty bad roleplaying just to ignore something like a geas. This isn't something that should be shrugged off with a; oh! well... as long as there's a cleric in the party to heal the HP damage and only a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. For the rest of my bloody life until this bond is broken with a wish/limited wish/miracle or if I can find a cleric of a high enough level to remove it as a curse. Not unless there's a very good reason not to. Frankly, racists elves don't measure up.
bob_the_great 02-08-07, 10:37 AM	Sure, the effect can be supressed with a protection from good/evil - if you happen to know the alignment of the one that cast it on you. A protection from evil on a good character does only protect that character from attacks and mind control etc. done by evil characters/creatures. It is not a blanket protection from all alignments. And if the caster is a true neutral... when then you're up the creek without a paddle. No protection fron neutral rings... no protection from neutral spells for that matter. But most of all, it's pretty bad roleplaying just to ignore something like a geas. This isn't something that should be shrugged off with a; oh! well... as long as there's a cleric in the party to heal the HP damage and only a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. For the rest of my bloody life until this bond is broken with a wish/limited wish/miracle or if I can find a cleric of a high enough level to remove it as a curse. Not unless there's a very good reason not to. Frankly, racists elves don't measure up. actually that isn't true. the alignment restriction only applies to warding from attacks. The spell description specifically states "This second effect works regardless of alignment." and i'll disagree with it being bad roleplaying. if you ask me geas is bad DM'ing, and if a character is stubborn and resourceful enough to successfully fight it then bravo.
geekling 02-08-07, 11:06 AM	actually that isn't true. the alignment restriction only applies to warding from attacks. The spell description specifically states "This second effect works regardless of alignment.". Oh dear! so it does... Learn something new every day and so on.
willpower 02-08-07, 03:30 PM	So time to take it down a peg or two then. Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that. Little thing called Geas - just to mention one. There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves. Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game. Geas doesn't actually make you do anything. It enforces a particular action, and if you do not, or cannot do said action, you have certain penalties placed upon you. (a sickness) You still do not have to do it, particularly if you get it removed. edit: Actually I think it might have a touch of compulsion attached to it, but you can still get it removed. It says nothing about you not knowing it is a spell.
Fatalis_902 02-08-07, 04:48 PM	So time to take it down a peg or two then. Unfortunably, in D&D, you can do exactly that. Little thing called Geas - just to mention one. There's even have a specific subschool of magic - compulsion - that's all about making people (characters or NPCs) to do what you want them to, regardless of what they might want themselves. Of course there's nothing to say that the player inflicted with it can not vote with his/her feet in protest and walk out of the game. Others have said this, but I must defend my self. Fighting one's own battles and all that rubbish. You DO realise that the worst that can happen with Geas is that you take 3d6 damage eah day you refuse to follow it, and become sickened if you fail a saving throw. Big whoop. On the RP side, if a racsist elf wizard putr a geas on me to work for him, heck yea I would fight it. I could probably talk to someone capable of removing it, or twist it to my own ends. If the geas is, "Retrive these artifacts," the caster worded it poorly, but I would wait until the artifacts were in the casters possession, then retrive them. For me. As for compulsion, if the NPCs can do it, so can the PCs. The PC wizard could use a charm or suggestion spell to convince the caster of the first spell to dismiss the effect. If the DM arbitrarily says that the NPC makes the save, there is a problem. And if you have a DM who throws compulsions on your characters just because they are not taking a particualr quest, there is a problem. It is bigger if other PCs are throwing compulsions on other PCs (some exceptions may apply).
LoNLinaChan 02-08-07, 07:04 PM	Being constantly glued to a cleric may heal the HP danage but does nothing against the daily 24 hour sickened condition it also causes if you go against it and fail your daily FORT saving throw. Sure, the effect can be supressed with a protection from good/evil - if you happen to know the alignment of the one that cast it on you. A protection from evil on a good character does only protect that character from attacks and mind control etc. done by evil characters/creatures. It is not a blanket protection from all alignments. And if the caster is a true neutral... when then you're up the creek without a paddle. No protection fron neutral rings... no protection from neutral spells for that matter. But most of all, it's pretty bad roleplaying just to ignore something like a geas. This isn't something that should be shrugged off with a; oh! well... as long as there's a cleric in the party to heal the HP damage and only a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. For the rest of my bloody life until this bond is broken with a wish/limited wish/miracle or if I can find a cleric of a high enough level to remove it as a curse. Not unless there's a very good reason not to. Frankly, racists elves don't measure up. read again little boy alignment of caster doesn't matter the prot supresses all compulsion reguardless of caster alignment. with it suppressed none of the side effects kick. it's not bad roleplaying to ignore a geas it's called a stuborn charactor.
Salla 02-09-07, 02:24 AM	The first rule of dangling a plot hook is actually to make it enticing to the PCs. Acting openly snobbish, rude, and racist to people you wish to do you a favor (even if an exchange of gold is involved) is not a good way to convince them to agree to your terms. The correct response, in-character, is almost certainly 'No thank you', or a paraphrasing thereof. On the other hand, you can turn this to your advantage. Find out what they want, then try to figure out why they want it ... if they're this jerky, they probably don't want to do any good with it. Depending on your level, get with some bards, get a Legend Lore cast, make as many Knowledge: History/Arcana/Religion checks as you can, and find out what these things are for ... and how to destroy them. Outsmarted by a non-elf! The horror! :D