Dealing with negative levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dealing with negative levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RainerNader
05-28-07, 11:47 PM Hey guys,

An interesting issue actually came up in my gaming group recently, and I thought I'd see if anyone here had an opinion on it...

Our party is 7th level and we entered a dungeon. Our very first encounter involved a sorcerer who blasted my character, a cleric, with the Eneveration spell. So he had 3 negative levels and it would take several hours before they disappeared.

After the encounter I said, "well, time to go back up and rest." Everyone initially thought I was joking, since it had only been one encounter and everyone was still relatively fresh. However, I felt 3 negative levels is particularly debilitating. -3 to attacks, saves, skill checks, and losing three highest level spells. The idea of trying to trudge through an entire dungeon with all those penalties wasn't appealing in the least. I also wanted to prepare some spells so that we could handle negative levels in the future, like Death Ward and Restoration.

That being said, obviously some encounters are going to have some long-term debilitating effects. An enemy sunders the fighter's main weapon, or the wizard's spellbook gets stolen, or the rogue takes major DEX damage. Some of the most fun encounters I've had have been when a major setback forced me to find an alternative/creative way to accomplish goals and defeat enemies.

But I feel like some effects are just too debilitating that it no longer becomes fun, especially for an extended period of time. Being blinded in the middle of the fight and having to deal with that for the rest of the battle can be fun, but being blind for an entire session could quickly get old, at least in my opinion.

What do you guys think? Where is the line that separates when a player should try and gamely play on with disadvantages, or when they should refuse to go on until those disadvantages are rectified?
Kouk
05-29-07, 02:52 AM What do you guys think? Where is the line that separates when a player should try and gamely play on with disadvantages, or when they should refuse to go on until those disadvantages are rectified?

When it is fun probably. If you don't mind the challenge and potential risk that everyone wants you to come along with them for, then fine. If you really feel you need to rest (especially if it is just a number of "hours") you are a member of the group so you can voice your opinion and hold to it.

I'm not sure negative levels are nothing to worry about though, you might want to get to town and get them removed before they become permanent.
danielinthewolvesden
05-29-07, 03:09 AM Yeah, I agree. One Neg level? Sure, play thru. Three? Time to go back and rest. Besides with 3 there is a very real chance you migh get stuck losing a level, and that is very very bad.

Just like ability damage: down a couple points? "It's OK coach I can play with the pain!". Down 6 points of Con? "Sorry guys, I am late for the door".
NinjaPenguin
05-29-07, 06:09 AM Luckily with Enervation you won't have to worry about them becoming permanent at all. Just ask your friends to hang out for a while. It doesn't have to be 'lets come back tomorrow', more like 'Guys, We I'm not gonna make it if we press on, lets take a rest here.'

That's what I'd do, anyway. Stick to your guns!
Aminvelos
05-29-07, 08:12 PM I think you should have asked the group if you could "rest" for a while. In my group you would probably had been left behind, partially because all of my dungeons have certain time triggers before not so bad gets to bad, bad gets to worse and worse gets to dead. Also, it depends on your character. Is he a quitter? Does he become a detriment to the group when he's injured slowing them down like Regis? Does he take it on the chin and keep moving without regard to his own health? Does he feel he can move on?

Also, there's the metagaming. I have 3 lvls of enervation. I would take your sheet, role some dice and say you can't cast that, that, or that. Then you'd go on about your merry way and you wouldn't even know about your other nigs. Although I would give you a description about how you feel. Perhaps you'd figure it out, perhaps not.
RainerNader
05-29-07, 09:33 PM Also, there's the metagaming. I have 3 lvls of enervation. I would take your sheet, role some dice and say you can't cast that, that, or that. Then you'd go on about your merry way and you wouldn't even know about your other nigs. Although I would give you a description about how you feel. Perhaps you'd figure it out, perhaps not.

The party wizard knows Enervation and did a Spellcraft check to determine that was the spell that was used. If you consider that metagaming, to each their own, I suppose.
DaidojiTaidoru
05-29-07, 09:59 PM Also, there's the metagaming. I have 3 lvls of enervation. I would take your sheet, role some dice and say you can't cast that, that, or that. Then you'd go on about your merry way and you wouldn't even know about your other nigs. Although I would give you a description about how you feel. Perhaps you'd figure it out, perhaps not.

:confused:

Well I sure hope your description is "You feel half dead." Because that's about where a 7th level character hit with 3 neg levels is. 4 neg levels away from a corpse/soon to be incorporeal undead.

I also hope you allow knowledge religion/Heal to allow the characters to know what a negative level does.

To the OP: Yeah, unless there's real pressing buisness that needs to be solved right now I'd say taking a break is justified. If things are doling out negative levels having 3 of them is a very bad thing. My party learned that real fast.

PC1 - "Huh the Vampires only did 14 damage with thier two attacks."
Me - "And four negative levels."
PC1 - "That's okay, he's the tank not a damage dealer."
Tank - "Uh guys. I'm only level 8...."
Griff
05-30-07, 03:12 AM can you not dispell enervation? its only an hour anyway just make sure you keep good track of time, the rogue picks a lock, the party searches a room, you walk down a hallway, (you argue for 10 minutes that you shuld stop and rest)

eventually you'll be sweet. your only 600 rounds away from feeling better ;)
Kaldric
05-30-07, 03:59 AM I'll weigh in on the side of those who say "wait". Unless there's a pressing time issue that has been made clear to the characters, there's no reason to press on, and a big reason to stop. Make sure you have a safe place so there's no random encounters, and then rest.

It only takes a second for the DM to say "time passes and you feel better."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RainerNader 05-28-07, 11:47 PM	Hey guys, An interesting issue actually came up in my gaming group recently, and I thought I'd see if anyone here had an opinion on it... Our party is 7th level and we entered a dungeon. Our very first encounter involved a sorcerer who blasted my character, a cleric, with the Eneveration spell. So he had 3 negative levels and it would take several hours before they disappeared. After the encounter I said, "well, time to go back up and rest." Everyone initially thought I was joking, since it had only been one encounter and everyone was still relatively fresh. However, I felt 3 negative levels is particularly debilitating. -3 to attacks, saves, skill checks, and losing three highest level spells. The idea of trying to trudge through an entire dungeon with all those penalties wasn't appealing in the least. I also wanted to prepare some spells so that we could handle negative levels in the future, like Death Ward and Restoration. That being said, obviously some encounters are going to have some long-term debilitating effects. An enemy sunders the fighter's main weapon, or the wizard's spellbook gets stolen, or the rogue takes major DEX damage. Some of the most fun encounters I've had have been when a major setback forced me to find an alternative/creative way to accomplish goals and defeat enemies. But I feel like some effects are just too debilitating that it no longer becomes fun, especially for an extended period of time. Being blinded in the middle of the fight and having to deal with that for the rest of the battle can be fun, but being blind for an entire session could quickly get old, at least in my opinion. What do you guys think? Where is the line that separates when a player should try and gamely play on with disadvantages, or when they should refuse to go on until those disadvantages are rectified?
Kouk 05-29-07, 02:52 AM	What do you guys think? Where is the line that separates when a player should try and gamely play on with disadvantages, or when they should refuse to go on until those disadvantages are rectified? When it is fun probably. If you don't mind the challenge and potential risk that everyone wants you to come along with them for, then fine. If you really feel you need to rest (especially if it is just a number of "hours") you are a member of the group so you can voice your opinion and hold to it. I'm not sure negative levels are nothing to worry about though, you might want to get to town and get them removed before they become permanent.
danielinthewolvesden 05-29-07, 03:09 AM	Yeah, I agree. One Neg level? Sure, play thru. Three? Time to go back and rest. Besides with 3 there is a very real chance you migh get stuck losing a level, and that is very very bad. Just like ability damage: down a couple points? "It's OK coach I can play with the pain!". Down 6 points of Con? "Sorry guys, I am late for the door".
NinjaPenguin 05-29-07, 06:09 AM	Luckily with Enervation you won't have to worry about them becoming permanent at all. Just ask your friends to hang out for a while. It doesn't have to be 'lets come back tomorrow', more like 'Guys, We I'm not gonna make it if we press on, lets take a rest here.' That's what I'd do, anyway. Stick to your guns!
Aminvelos 05-29-07, 08:12 PM	I think you should have asked the group if you could "rest" for a while. In my group you would probably had been left behind, partially because all of my dungeons have certain time triggers before not so bad gets to bad, bad gets to worse and worse gets to dead. Also, it depends on your character. Is he a quitter? Does he become a detriment to the group when he's injured slowing them down like Regis? Does he take it on the chin and keep moving without regard to his own health? Does he feel he can move on? Also, there's the metagaming. I have 3 lvls of enervation. I would take your sheet, role some dice and say you can't cast that, that, or that. Then you'd go on about your merry way and you wouldn't even know about your other nigs. Although I would give you a description about how you feel. Perhaps you'd figure it out, perhaps not.
RainerNader 05-29-07, 09:33 PM	Also, there's the metagaming. I have 3 lvls of enervation. I would take your sheet, role some dice and say you can't cast that, that, or that. Then you'd go on about your merry way and you wouldn't even know about your other nigs. Although I would give you a description about how you feel. Perhaps you'd figure it out, perhaps not. The party wizard knows Enervation and did a Spellcraft check to determine that was the spell that was used. If you consider that metagaming, to each their own, I suppose.
DaidojiTaidoru 05-29-07, 09:59 PM	Also, there's the metagaming. I have 3 lvls of enervation. I would take your sheet, role some dice and say you can't cast that, that, or that. Then you'd go on about your merry way and you wouldn't even know about your other nigs. Although I would give you a description about how you feel. Perhaps you'd figure it out, perhaps not. :confused: Well I sure hope your description is "You feel half dead." Because that's about where a 7th level character hit with 3 neg levels is. 4 neg levels away from a corpse/soon to be incorporeal undead. I also hope you allow knowledge religion/Heal to allow the characters to know what a negative level does. To the OP: Yeah, unless there's real pressing buisness that needs to be solved right now I'd say taking a break is justified. If things are doling out negative levels having 3 of them is a very bad thing. My party learned that real fast. PC1 - "Huh the Vampires only did 14 damage with thier two attacks." Me - "And four negative levels." PC1 - "That's okay, he's the tank not a damage dealer." Tank - "Uh guys. I'm only level 8...."
Griff 05-30-07, 03:12 AM	can you not dispell enervation? its only an hour anyway just make sure you keep good track of time, the rogue picks a lock, the party searches a room, you walk down a hallway, (you argue for 10 minutes that you shuld stop and rest) eventually you'll be sweet. your only 600 rounds away from feeling better ;)
Kaldric 05-30-07, 03:59 AM	I'll weigh in on the side of those who say "wait". Unless there's a pressing time issue that has been made clear to the characters, there's no reason to press on, and a big reason to stop. Make sure you have a safe place so there's no random encounters, and then rest. It only takes a second for the DM to say "time passes and you feel better."