Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spasheridan 01-25-05, 06:09 PM	SO, last session, my PC took a dirt nap. THe situtation was a little weird, so what do you all think about it. 1) It begins: Checking out a small hallway off of a goblinoid lair we find some wolves in cages. In one of the cages is something with a panic inducing howl. My animal companion and the cleric both panick. I chase my dog one way, the cleric runs another, the rest of the party starts killing the thing that scared us. 2 rounds later the dog has run into the midst of the BIG battle up ahead. All directions that panicked people run was rolled randomly. - Mistake I made: Leavig the party to save my animal companion 2) Surrounded. I'm in a long hallway that has several branches off of it. Imagine a ladder shaped dungeon (long halls with short halls connecting them). Each branch is filled with a half dozen or so enemies of varying strength. They jump out and cut me off from the party. The dog runs back to me and stops being panicked, I flame strike some enemies and then put up a barrier down the corridor I was running down to stop the enemies down there from hurting me. I slowly fall back to barrier as more enemies pile into the hallway between me and the party... - Mistake I made: Staying near my animal companion instead of running to the party. 3) Respite. Down to 10 hp, my animal companion now dead, I wildshape into a Rhino for that huge con. My party is getting closer but between me and them are another 20 or so enemies that can kill me in a round. Fireballs from the mage thin them out but I need to heal. Murderous Mist down the corridor to keep the monsters away. I'm alone between the mist and the barrier for a few rounds, then a handful of enemies stumble out of the mist on to me. - Mistake I made: The mist blocked the passage between me and the party. Now way to join them. 4) The rest of the party. THey are dealing with small groups of enemies. Enemies are randomly targetting PC's in the group. A large group comes down a side hallway (driven away from me by the mist) and they hide from the PCs as the PCs take down a few larger members of the enemy force. They see the cleric emerge to battle them (he's finally back, runing took him far away). They have ranged weapons and the ability to cast either True Strike or Magic Missile 3/day. The cleric has a spell resisitance up so the MM's fail. The monsters all run away from the cleric and the rest of the party is left alone. 5) Death. The mist is now far enough away from me and the barrier that a side passage will soon be opened up. I've taken out the last few monsters nearby and I've healed a little bit. All of the enemies that have fled the party head to the passageway that is being blocked by the mist. They sit outside the mist while the cleric runs them down. They don't true strike and throw spears, they sit on their last few magic missiles. THe mist moves away from the passageway, the cleric kills a few more of the enemies, and they move into the hallway and they blast me with magic missiles. I'm staggered, but not dead. The cleric takes swings at a few more, the enemies ignore the cleric atacking them to loose their last magic missiles at me and kill me dead (-13 hp with a greater vigor going). SO, I admit I made several mistakes. THe worst was putting that mist up between me and the party. Some bad luck in the intervening rounds prevented me from casting any serious healing spells.. the last 2 enemies kept making saving throws vs the incapacitiating spells I cast on them. But the kicker is that the mob that killed me ran AWAY from the party and then hunkered down outside the mist to murder me. If they fled the party fearing fireballs, that makes sense, but they couldn't know I didn't have flame strikes left (and the wizard was out of fireballs as well) so they should have stayed away from me as well. The rest of the party was being targetted at random (ie 3 PC's in range for missiles, roll a d3 to see who was shot) but when someone showed up with resistance to magic missile they ran instead of casting true strike and throwing their spears or massing their missiles on a target that wasn't immune. What do you think? Bad moves on my part or was the DM gunning for me?
Rock_Slice 01-25-05, 06:53 PM	I'd say that your character's death was fair. The enemies saw someone who had harmed them almost dead, so they took you out so that they didn't need to worry about you while worrying about the cleric. All together, good strategy on the part of the enemies. I'd also say, "WOW!!". Considering the choices you made, you managed to keep your character alive for a phenomenally long time, especially as what you encountered (mostly alone), was probably intended to be an encounter for the entire party. So congrats! One question you should consider: how easily did the rest of the party finish what remnants you left standing? Also, considering the possibility of being revived, do you think dying was worth it?
spasheridan 01-25-05, 07:16 PM	The monsters are 1 shot wonders. They have 3 magic missiles or 3 true strikes a day. After 3 rounds they can't do a damn thing. So after all 40 or so blew their wads on me and my animal companion the rest of the party will walk through the monsters. I didn't actually kill that many (maybe 16 or so), I just blocked their path and kept them away from me for a few rounds. The thing is.. they didn't see me. I was completely out of view between a column of ice and a murderous mist. There were a handful with me that I turned into a hamster and beat uncouncoous. THe monsters RAN from the rest of the party and then stopped to wait for the mist to move past the passageway so they could run in and gut me. When the cleric came after them they didn't even attack him, they sat and waited for the mist to move so they could run into the corridor and kill me. I realized as soon as I cast the mist spell though that I was trapped with no way out and it was 90% likely that I was dead. It was a heroic death, if only there was a bard in the party to make a song about it. As far as was it worth it ... well, I ran after my animal companion to try and save it. Since he died anyways I'd say it wasn't worth it at all. The encounter would have been a push over if the party had walked in together.
Rock_Slice 01-25-05, 07:26 PM	Then I retract one of my statements. Yes, they were most likely after you in particular. The only way I know of (as a DM) to fix this is to bring snacks to your next session. :-) Hope you have better luck with your next character.
Board_Rider 01-25-05, 07:45 PM	By enemies do you mean more "enhanced" goblinoids? What level and how many were there in your party? To me, this sounds like a DM massacre and must disagree with the above poster. This was unfair. 40 enemies is a touch much. Maybe next character.
spasheridan 01-25-05, 07:54 PM	The party: 10th level human druid 1/10 barb / cleric half orc 5/5 fighter / rogue elf 3/3/5 mage/cleric/mystic thurge mage 5/cleric 1 elf (npc / cohort) We've been around the block a few times, great stats and decent gear. The monsters were goblins, bugbears, and hobgoblins all templated and advanced with dr/adamantine, acid damge, and breath weapons or spells /day. Last encounter we were able to slowly hack our way through a similar number of these badies, the differance was we were surprised last encounter but all together. We were prepared this time with most of our defenses up but seperated this time.
e-z0r 01-25-05, 08:01 PM	By enemies do you mean more "enhanced" goblinoids? What level and how many were there in your party? To me, this sounds like a DM massacre and must disagree with the above poster. This was unfair. 40 enemies is a touch much. Maybe next character. Uhm.. He said it himself, the encounter would have been a pushover if the party had walked together. I believe he knows the challenge level since he was there.
Phrennzy 01-25-05, 09:09 PM	I think your mistake was in not healing yourself more. By that I mean making yourself even more uninvolved in the fight (obscurement/invisibility/meld into stone, etc) and heal for a round or two. There's no point in seperating yourself from the party unless you are going to look after numero uno. It does sound like the DM KINDA gunned for you there at the end. By ignoring an enemy who was attacking them and going for you, it's kinda lame. HAlf of them should have gunned for you while the other half either speared him or grappled at him in a cluster. But don't take it too bad - you guys seem to be high enough level to Raise you, right?
Callista 01-25-05, 09:19 PM	It's a combination of your character's choices (and if you made them in-character, especially the choice to run after your companion, then kudos to you--I have a PC in my game that would do the exact same thing) and your bad luck in the direction the animal ran. Death happens, y'know? This is D&D, not Miss Susie's Tea Party! Your choices weren't as bad as some I've seen. No one acts like a tactical genius 100% of the time... you just picked a bad time to be less than perfect. Besides--If your party can't resurrect you, then this is a chance to try a new, interesting character concept. Sure, you'll have to start a level lower; but at this level, that isn't too big of a disadvantage. Maybe you can even start a Bard to sing of your previous character's demise :)
spasheridan 01-26-05, 12:28 AM	Thanks fer the response. I knew that running after the animal companion was a dangerous, almost reckless, choice. But my last animal companion was possessed by a demon and the druid's at my grove took exepction to my treatment of the animal afterwards. I thought loosing another one would be bad form, I had to do something. I mean, really, what's the worst that could happen, right?? What? Oh yeah... that. :weep: It hurt a little that a RP decision would turn so drasticly against my PC, because another one lead to the druids death by a trap left a lich in my garden a month back. I feel a little picked on that's all. I'm sure it's just bad luck.
DM_Erik 01-26-05, 09:38 AM	Death happens, y'know? This is D&D, not Miss Susie's Tea Party! LOL.. this one is going in my sig as well as on my D&D wall... right next to the PC death list... funny stuff
CzarGarrett 01-26-05, 10:01 AM	Haven't we learnt anything from Top Gun. Never leave your wingman!
TheBard 01-26-05, 11:39 AM	This is true greatness. Sure, you were beaten up badly... but in character. Although you (as a player) knew that running behind your animal companion would turn out bad (although not *that* bad), your character ran... This is not an easy decision to make and the consequence is tough but it is worth it. As a GM, I wouldn't let this deed go unnoticed. Maybe a scroll of True Resurrection in a loot pile or something. No way this would be the end of a good character. Story and fun is always First
Board_Rider 01-26-05, 11:44 AM	Uhm.. He said it himself, the encounter would have been a pushover if the party had walked together. I believe he knows the challenge level since he was there. Uhm.. an 8 to 1 Ratio is never a pushover encounter. Unless the enemies are poorly played. If I read correctly they get True Strike or Magic Missle 3/day. Lets say 50/50. So thats up to 60(20 Goblins(oids)*3/day) Magic Missles spread among 4 PC's and 1 NPC. 2 of which had Mage classes as a primary. So lets say combat went MM, True Strike, MM, True Strike.... This encounter could get deadly. I once had 5 PC's think that something was a "pushover encounter". After that battle they used more strategy and less overconfidence. But thanks for the pointer e-z0r!!
PhaedrusXY 01-26-05, 12:27 PM	It does sound like the DM KINDA gunned for you there at the end. By ignoring an enemy who was attacking them and going for you, it's kinda lame. HAlf of them should have gunned for you while the other half either speared him or grappled at him in a cluster. I disagree. When I roleplay NPCs, I have them use tactics too, and also try to figure out what they'd do in a situation based on their motivations. I don't randomly pick a PC to attack, unless the NPCs attacking them are really stupid, or have no idea which PCs are the most dangerous/easiest to kill. In this situation, the NPCs were probably feeling really frustrated that this one guy had survived their attacks for so long, and killed alot of them. I could see them risking death and ignoring other attackers to finish him off, especially if they thought they were going to die regardless of what they did. Can't you hear them saying "If I'm going to die, I'm at least going to take one of them with me!"? Perhaps all of the enemies might not have thought that, and so might not have reacted the same. But if there was one who was their leader, he might have directed them to do so. So no, I don't think the DM was "gunning" for you, or playing unfairly. When I DM, I try to roleplay my NPCs with the correct amount of intelligence, use tactics accordingly, and have them react in an appropriate way given their temperment and the situation. It does sound like you lasted a very long time even in the face of terrible odds, and bravo to you on that! As someone else said, you might want to prepare some more defensive spells, or even something to retreat with, like Meld into Stone or a scroll of Word of Recall.
e-z0r 01-26-05, 05:38 PM	Uhm.. an 8 to 1 Ratio is never a pushover encounter. Unless the enemies are poorly played. If I read correctly they get True Strike or Magic Missle 3/day. Lets say 50/50. So thats up to 60(20 Goblins(oids)*3/day) Magic Missles spread among 4 PC's and 1 NPC. 2 of which had Mage classes as a primary. So lets say combat went MM, True Strike, MM, True Strike.... This encounter could get deadly. I once had 5 PC's think that something was a "pushover encounter". After that battle they used more strategy and less overconfidence. But thanks for the pointer e-z0r!! Well, it's not like all the enemies would've been at them at the same time. Besides, a magic missile is 1d4+1. a CLW is 1d8+5, and they had two healers in the group. But anyway, I'm not going to speculate or assume anything more about this encounter's challenge level. It seems this player is somewhat experienced - never mind the mistakes - and he was actually there, so I'll trust him more than my own shots in the dark.
Madmartigan 01-26-05, 07:41 PM	1) It begins: Checking out a small hallway off of a goblinoid lair we find some wolves in cages. In one of the cages is something with a panic inducing howl. My animal companion and the cleric both panick. I chase my dog one way, the cleric runs another, the rest of the party starts killing the thing that scared us. 2 rounds later the dog has run into the midst of the BIG battle up ahead. All directions that panicked people run was rolled randomly. I would have to say I am in the opinion that Someone in your party was going to get shafted to a certain extent. My only question is (since it seems like you played well enough, just got worn down by mobs) who rolled to see which way you ran, and what ability was it that caused you to become panicked? I have several qualms about this, in the case of the players. The mage should have been able to choose which way to run (barring extenuating circumstances, the same for other PCs), but the direction your animal companion ran was up to your DM to choose (but considering most things, I guess someone panicked could flee head straight into an unknown area where they could litterally have smelt the numerous number of dangerous bodies up ahead ... :thinks: ...). Anyhow, you might have wanted to try and control your Animal Companion with handle animal, to at least make him have sat or something, but ah well. Better luck next time, and it just sounds like a little of both unluck and a set up was had (your DM had to have had someone fleeing into the midst of the large battle when s/he put that panic inducing animal there. There is no other way to explain why that encounter was there other than to get someone into trouble)
Shard of Suzail 01-26-05, 11:01 PM	Sounds fine to me. This is the sort of death that occurs because battles are brutal places, rather than because something went horribly wrong. Sooner, or later, someone dies like this, just as part of the daily grind of combat and adventuring life. Time to get raised, lose a level and get back on that horse. Incidentally, i`d never take a familiar or animal companion. I like my allies summoned and disposable, its safer that way. A good ally is one you can leave to die while you run away to save you own skin. Summoned beasts fit that bill every time.