Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToastedAmphibian 07-27-07, 08:06 PM	I have a Chaotic Evil human character who, after a run-in with a deck of many things, has been predictably thrown off course. To start with, my character was a bit odd to begin with, being a high str, high int, low dex scout with Exotic Weapon proficency in Heavy Poleaxe... My intended career path was scout6/Derivish10 then mabey a few lvls of Exotic Weapon master. Anyways, back to the cards.... Long story short, 3 cards later im bucknaked (Agian) with a -1 to all my saves and a crystal shortsword on my lap..... Turns out it is a +3 Icy Burst short sword... and aparently its going to be an intelligent weapon (DM made some cryptic remark about "Dormant" and the more experienced players laughed.........) And im fairly sure its not gonna let me get rid of it..... (My will save is a fun 0) Any advice would be helpfull.... Best ive come up with so far is to steal/ransome someone for 27000 gold and get Morphing and Sizing cast on it. Not looking like a fast fix for my lvl 3 scout............ Hoorahy for Chaos!
shadzar 07-27-07, 08:16 PM	best advice i can give you...draw one card max from the deck of many things. after that you are pretty much screwed. have you tried selling the sword for some clothes?
Salla 07-27-07, 09:31 PM	Find a Cleric who knows augury, have him prepare it as many times a day as possible, and have him ask if drawing one card is good or bad, then two, then three ... or until he says it's a bad thing. Alternately, just burn the damn thing.
Thunder Dragonbane 07-27-07, 09:42 PM	How did you come by the deck of many at level 3? It is a artifact according to the DMG, and I think it is somewhat less powerfull than it was in 1st ed when I first saw it.
Salla 07-27-07, 09:44 PM	How did you come by the deck of many at level 3? It is a artifact according to the DMG, and I think it is somewhat less powerfull than it was in 1st ed when I first saw it. It's a 'minor artifact', which just means that it's something nobody knows how to make in modern times (aka something the designers don't want PCs creating). It's not an 'artifact', meaning 'divinely powered font of badassery'.
Araciel 07-28-07, 02:51 AM	It's a 'minor artifact', which just means that it's something nobody knows how to make in modern times (aka something the designers don't want PCs creating). It's not an 'artifact', meaning 'divinely powered font of badassery'. That's true, but if you look at what most of the cards can do, most people would agree that it should not be made available to a low or even mid-level party for the fact that there's just too much high powered junk floating around. For those DMs who thumb their nose at game balance for the sake of being cool or different...well I guess it's fun for them but their players suffer for it.
DrMorganes 07-28-07, 02:38 PM	Find a Cleric who knows augury, have him prepare it as many times a day as possible, and have him ask if drawing one card is good or bad, then two, then three ... or until he says it's a bad thing. *winces* Don't get me going (again) on why that's a poor strategy at best, and flatout useless at worst. Toasted: Your DM is guilty of serious asshattery by tossing you the Deck of Many Things at Level 3. Still, loss of possessions is temporary. -1 to all saves is a major bite in the shorts at Level 3, but ultimately isn't a major handicap. That +3 icy burst short sword, however, is a major boon. Scouts have proficiency with short swords and this one is definitely a weapon to be cherished. (Unless of course it turns out to be malignantly intelligent and takes over your will...) You have two options: First, cry foul. Tell your DM you had no idea what would happen if you drew from the Deck and ask for the "encounter" to be removed. It never happened. Fate is rewoven. You have all your original stuff and life goes on as planned. Chances of him going for this are slim. I don't think ANYONE is unfamiliar with the potential consequences of drawing from the Deck of Many Things. If you somehow were clueless, then your DM should have warned you. And made you sign a waiver. Twice. Second, roll with it. Take your +3 icy burst sword and see what sort of havoc your CE scout can wreak before whatever vile plan your DM has in store comes crashing down upon you. Go out with style if possible.
Bozwevial 07-28-07, 07:41 PM	Your DM might have a grudge against you. Bring the Cheetos and Mountain Dew next session, order pizza for everyone, then ask if you can have that redone. If you meant "dominant" in your post, then that sword is likely going to become your worst nightmare. Throwing you a Deck of Many Things at 3rd level is like telling you a Sphere of Annihilation is actually a disguised magic 8-ball. An inexperienced player falling afoul of such an artifact, and winding up with what is likely, thanks to Murphy, a LG sword with an Ego of eleventybillion and three. Assuming the sword is good or lawful, you might possibly be able to convince it to part with you, thus facilitating its goals, and sell it for some money to spend on a magical poleaxe. If the DM doesn't go for it, you may just be stuck as a puppet for a sword to entertain the other players. (If this happens, tell the DM that it's not fun being a NPC sword's straight man and ask him to reverse the whole incident.)
ToastedAmphibian 07-30-07, 07:38 PM	Heh, thanks for the help guys. Im fairly sure that the outcome wasnt a result of the dm being mad at me... He pulled out a deck of cards and the whole party drew, though most of them ignored my chanting of "Three". As to how we came upon the deck at lvl 3, well.... Well, the 6 of us where in 2 small boats in the swamps.. The LE paly threatened to shackle me, so i hit the boat with the poleaxe... and things went down hilll,.... At any rate, i jumped to the other boat, and gave the necro a ugly head wound, will the dragon shaman acidently put a bolt through the dwarf cleric in the first boat, who then cast silence on the secound boat..... at which point a giant tentcal poped out the water, draged under the crippled necro and proceeded to eat the shaman adn the psion.... (The paly and the cleric paddled away..) However we were rescued by some "Random" swamp lady. Anyways she took us back to here house, and while the psion was rummaging through her things for valuables he found a deck of many things and she offered to read us all our fortunes.... (Yes our party definently needs to work on its team work, but hey, evil partys should have some in-fighthing yes?) Also, sory about the typo in first post. Fixed it to read "Dormant"
ToastedAmphibian 07-30-07, 08:48 PM	Someone suggested using Permanency of "Weapon Shift" To hire a mage to do this, they would have to be 9th level and spend 500gp. So it would cost me 10gpx9 + 50gpx9 + 5gpx500 = 3040gp Does this seem doable, and if so, is it a good idea? Also, if it is an intelligent weapon, what do you think the odds are that it would object, and if it did object, could it stop me from contracting the wizard, or would it have to try and resist the actual spell caster?
ProZocK 07-31-07, 10:23 AM	*winces* Don't get me going (again) on why that's a poor strategy at best, and flatout useless at worst. I actually have never been told why this strategy is poor or useless. Would you care to elaborate? Maybe if thats true I can actually USE the damm thing on my adventure.
wrecan 07-31-07, 10:35 AM	Find a Cleric who knows augury, have him prepare it as many times a day as possible, and have him ask if drawing one card is good or bad, then two, then three ... or until he says it's a bad thing. Don't get me going (again) on why that's a poor strategy at best, and flatout useless at worst. I actually have never been told why this strategy is poor or useless. Would you care to elaborate? The character with a deck of many things who wishes to draw a card must announce how many cards she will draw before she begins. Cards must be drawn within 1 hour of each other, and a character can never again draw from this deck any more cards than she has announced. If the character does not willingly draw her allotted number (or if she is somehow prevented from doing so), the cards flip out of the deck on their own. * * * Each time a card is taken from the deck, it is replaced (making it possible to draw the same card twice) unless the draw is the jester or the fool, in which case the card is discarded from the pack. -Deck of Many Things (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#deckofManyThings) First off, Salla's fix won't work. You have to anounce ahead of time how many cards you will draw. So you can't draw, cast augury, draw, cast augury. At most, augury will only work if you agree to draw only one card. I suppose, if the particular action is "declare how many cards you draw", then it might work. Then you move on to the second point. Second, since it is feasible to draw the same card twice, even if your replace the drawn card to the bottom of the deck, it may be that the card to be drawn is not determined until the player draws it. Here's the relative section of augury (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/augury.htm): If the augury succeeds, you get one of four results: * Weal (if the action will probably bring good results). * Woe (for bad results). * Weal and woe (for both). * Nothing (for actions that don’t have especially good or bad results). If the spell fails, you get the “nothing” result. A cleric who gets the “nothing” result has no way to tell whether it was the consequence of a failed or successful augury. The clear response to any attempt to draw a card from the deck of many things, if the card is not predetermined, is "Weal and Woe", since you have an equal chance of getting a good or bad card. I particularly note the use of the phrase "will probably", which means to me that the deck doesn't see the future, but rather, given the present state of affairs, tries to figure out the probability of a bad or good result happening in the near future. Now, if, as DM, you decide that augury can foresee which cards will be determined, it could work. But the deck is an artifact (albeit a minor one). It's not unreasonable to state that it can't be defeated by a second level clerical spell.
Salla 07-31-07, 12:30 PM	First off, Salla's fix won't work. You have to anounce ahead of time how many cards you will draw. So you can't draw, cast augury, draw, cast augury. At most, augury will only work if you agree to draw only one card. I suppose, if the particular action is "declare how many cards you draw", then it might work. Then you move on to the second point. Actually, the move is, before anybody even touches the damn thing, for the cleric to cast, and ask 'Will Jeff's (to pick a name) first card suck?'. The DM, since he must do so to determine the result, looks at the top card. Gives answer. We'll assume, for right now, it's good. The cleric then asks, "Will Jeff's second card suck?" The DM, since he must do so to determine the result, shuffles deck and draws a second card. Gives answer. We'll assume, for right now, it's good. The cleric then asks, "Will Jeff's third card suck?" The DM, since he must do so to determine the result, draws a third card. Gives answer. We'll assume, for right now, it's bad. "Jeff, when I'm done with all this, you draw two cards." The DM notes what two cards those are, since they must (since we're telling the future) be the two Jeff draws regardless of any other deck shuffling. When Jeff's turn comes around, he (the player) won't have to physically draw, because the character must draw the cards determined by the DM and the augury spell. Repeat process for the rest of the party. Profit. Barring the dice going wonky, or the DM fudging, it works perfectly. But the deck is an artifact (albeit a minor one). It's not unreasonable to state that it can't be defeated by a second level clerical spell. Which constitutes the DM fudging/a houserule.
wrecan 07-31-07, 12:56 PM	Salla you ignored my argument about the augury spell determining only "probabilities". It does not appear to have the ability to determine future outcomes -- only the ability to calculate likelihoods of future outcomes. You're also assuming that the order of the cards is set before the character pulls the card. But the wording in the Deck of Many Things can equally be read as randomly generating a card at the moment the player draws the card. Here's an analogy: Party comes up to a door in a dungeon filled with kobolds. The party barbarian has learned that a judicious use of Intimidate causes some (say, 25% of the) kobolds to flee without a fight. The barbarian readies an action to Intimidate any creatures on the other side of the door. The cleric casts an augury spell to see what is likely to happen if the door is opened. The DM knows that if the Intimidate works, the kobolds will flee (augury would then say "Nothing"). If the Intimidate fails, they will have a tough fight (augury would then say "Woe"). Is the DM supposed to roll the Intimidate checks before the door is even opened? I don't think so (at a minimum, I don't think the wording of the spell compels such an interpretation). He just makes a quick look at the probabilities, figures the kobolds will probably not be Intimidated, checks to ensure the augury succeeds, and says "Woe". Now the players know that something is on the other side of the door. Similarly, the DM doesn't have to decide ahead of time which cards are drawn. He looks at the probabilities, which is 50% Weal and 50% Woe. He then checks to ensure the augury succeeds and says "Weal and Woe" or "Nothing" (depending on what answer he thinks equal chances of Weal and Woe deserve). Now, the rules could be read to mean the first card is predetermined (your statement about "the top of the deck"). But that isn't a necessary reading of the rule. An equally valid reading is that the card is randomly chosen at the time of the choosing. Alternately, you could decide the word "probably" in the augury spell should be ignored and the spell can actually predict the future. But that is also a house rule. In essence, we have two equally valid readings. I don't think my version is a house rule (or, alternately, any reading is a house rule, since the rules have an ambiguity the DM must necessarily fill).
Bozwevial 07-31-07, 05:42 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that a minor artifact called the Rogue's Dice, which had varying good and bad effects depending on a 2d6 roll, had a disclaimer in the text that said, in effect, that magical and mundane attempts to predict/influence the outcome of the dice automatically failed. I'd say that the deck would have something like that in effect...especially if it was made by, say, Olidammara. Using augury to determine the effects of the deck and make a profit off of it is not likely to be condoned by the DM. Besides, wrecan has a point. The benefit one can get from the deck is outweighed by the potential disasters that can arise, and letting a minor cleric spell defeat artifact-level magic is simply absurd. Perhaps your DM should use a variant on the deck I saw in a place that has slipped my mind for a moment: The first card drawn from the deck by any person in a group in possession of the deck, drawing on their own free will (the PCs can't pass it around and all get something, nor can they force a villain to draw from the deck) is a benefit. The second and all even numbered draws are undesirable, and odd draws after the first are determined as normal (in other words, 1st draw=good; 2nd/4th/6th/8th/10th, etc=bad; 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc=draw normally). It's not perfect, but it eliminates some of the risk-and could allow the deck to be incorporated as a godly tool which rewards those who show courage, but punishes the greedy.