Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Metabubbles 02-17-05, 10:32 AM	Sorry if this is the wrong area to post, however we have a party of 5 level 12 characters (Dwarven defender-10 lvls fighter, 2 lvls DDef; Cleric-12 strght lvls of cleric; Rogue-10 lvls rogue, 2lvls horde stealer; Eldritch Knight-4 lvls of Wizard, 4 or so lvls of fighter, rest from SpellSword and Eldritch Knight; Sorcerer-12 strght lvls of Sorcerer) and it seems we cannot defeat this half-orc Monk. Obviously Meta-gaming is hard not to do (1 player actually grabbed the player's handbook to learn more about monks, LOL) but what are some techniques that will help against the monk? Background; Must be evil, shows up soften's us up a bit, and Giant Skeletons come and attack us and he leaves. Comes back after we defeated the skeletons and dimension door's out when almost defeated! Aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhh..... This is our plan; I cast lower spell resistance, the cleric then casts dimensional anchor. Hopefully the dwarf can keep him busy til then (he gets 4 attacks, so can probably kill me in two rounds, ouch!). Then I cast greater inv on the rogue, she can shoot him from 30ft away, and we slowly take him down. Any help is wanted, thanks.
Lionhearted 02-17-05, 10:36 AM	After "teleporting" away _ find the path_ dimension door_kill him he can't escape more than once with the "teleporting" and not more than 1000fts away at the most so what's the problem
angryman 02-17-05, 10:38 AM	Hit him with a high DC fort save, in my experience monks don't tend to have huge fort saves. Wait til he Dim. Doors, then whack him. Hit him with spells.
Metabubbles 02-17-05, 12:50 PM	He conveniently dim door, but we found 4 secret passages in the bushes surrounding us. So he went down, and out of sight, as far as we can tell. Now the party wants to rest (Aaaarrrgggghhhh....) to bump the Dwarf up a level. After the fight the dwarf had enough XP to go to our level 12, so they wanted him to get the level. Thats fine, but the dude dim door, obviously he isn't in the thickets, I think we should hit him when he is weak. The problem is his feats, spell resistance, hp's, saves, attacks and speed. Everytime we 'miss' him he attacks with a trip attack. The only person that can go toe to toe is the dwarf, and he ends up being tripped. He sneaks up on us 'always', attacks and moves (movement is like 60'), so our dwarf can't stand there while the monk moves. Also I can't cast web since there is only flat land with bushes, DM specified I have to have something taller than my intended target to put the web on ie, tree, statue, etc... Probably the problem is the party, the rogue should 'always' come to me first and not run the other way, so I can cast Greater Invisibility. But I also have to lower the spell res too. There is about 4 rounds of stuff I have to do so he doesn't get a chance to kill us. He has been studying us for awhile now and attacks very intelligently (I want a stupid NPC!!! Just kidding). I am deeply concerned one of us will die (me probably, since I have the most power vs the monk without going toe to toe). My opinion the monk is a very powerful class, maybe not early on but now, and it seems we are having fits with him. Just wondering should we press on, or stay and let the dwarf get bumped up? Good idea about fort saves, any other suggestions?
The Admiral 02-17-05, 01:12 PM	If you have access to Hold Monster use that on him( same as Hold Person just higher DC :D ). You just need to find a way to limit his movement. A Slow spell would also work, but this also depends on him failing a save.
der_gogo 02-17-05, 02:32 PM	I would use Dimensional Anchor on him in order to stop him from teleporting. Then start getting into melee. You could also use Polymorph or even Enlarge Person to give your melee guys a huge advantage against trip attempts. If you polymorph your dwarf in something nasty, you could also grapple the monk so that he can't escape. Also monks tend to have a huge number of attacks, which are all not very high due to the lower BAB. So a high AC will work wonders. Attacking the Monk with Spells is a subopimal way of challenging him, since he will have a huge Spell Resistance - he will be about 3-5 lvls higher than you I guess - and all his saves are really good....
Wizard 02-17-05, 02:50 PM	How is he tripping you every time you miss? I seem to remember some feat from CW, but I'm not sure.
Metabubbles 02-17-05, 03:12 PM	I really don't know what the monk is doing, I think it is only against one opponent, because others had missed also but was not tripped. The monk barely has a better score for tripping against a dwarf, but it is just a matter of numbers. Even once sucks in a fight. The sad part is I did lower spell res on him, and tried hold monster, he saved :weep: . I will have the wizard memorize a slow spell, I believe that will work well. Maybe even a haste spell for the Dwarf, now that would be fun!
meabolex 02-17-05, 03:12 PM	A monk. . . tripping a DWARVEN DEFENDER? Dwarves have a +4 stability bonus to resist trip attempts. I assume you're calculating that in? That cancels out Improved Trip. So, how exactly does a fighter get out-strengthed by a monk? Why doesn't the defender have a reach weapon? Since the monk must move in close to be effective, why doesn't the defender use a reach weapon to avoid the trip attempts? You need to rethink dimensional anchor. Monks typically have a VERY high touch AC. Wisdom bonus to AC + high Dex to AC + rings of protection = high probability for a miss chance, even by a cleric (who typically has low Dex). So, I wouldn't bank on that strategy without true strike (no core access without the magic domain) or perhaps the luck domain. I'd avoid all spells with saving throws. Monks tend to eat those for breakfast. . . particularly spells of the enchantment school (Still Mind + high Wisdom score). There are plenty of spells that can seriously slow this guy down without SR and saves helping him. Evard's black tentacles, solid fog (or just fog cloud), darkness (half movement speed - works even on those with darkvision), web (even on a successful save entangles), and sleet storm come to mind immediately, but I'm sure there are others.
Zee'Tah 02-17-05, 03:30 PM	first off you need to learn how to play the monk. (ohh...ahh special, thought provoking, discussion oriented {don't ask}) The monk is designed to be a shock troop. Move in fast, stun/incopasitate the enemy, kill, and leave. You realy need to get yourself faster and him slower as quickly as possible. I suggest 1st casting hast. That way your guys can keep up with him (to an extent at least) and allowing your fighter to stand up between trips. Second I suggest that you slow him down and fast, choose your spell to slow him down with here, but make it hit him hard. keep slowing him down untill he starts looking hurt and might DD in the next few rounds, then cast your dimensional door. The reason I don't say cast Dim Lock first is because it won't help your guys in the first few rounds. Its not like he only hits you twice and then leaves. You have a two or three spell window to help your teamates and prevent him from running at his rediculose speed out once he can't DD out. Once DL is cast, he is slowed with one spell or another and he is starting to look desprate or hurting, unlease a can of hurt on him with your most powerful spells so he goes from - "gona need to get out in the next two turns" to - "oh... great... im dead" and hope you can overcome his SR. (there might be a spell that helps you with that to but I don't know what or where) Well that's a monks way of looking at taking down a monk. Still your gona need to keep yourself protected so tell you theif to get back and protect you. It will look more intimidating if your together than if you are seperate easy kills. Oh and whoever said that Monks have low fort saves...you might want to know that all of the saves of the monk are the highest progression in the game. (by the way props to your DM for creating such a successfull monk) :) :clap: :w00t: :love: :D
Kulthos 02-17-05, 03:43 PM	You are having a hard time with a Monk!? Do bards give you trouble too? Any of your fighters and certainly the defender should be able to mop the floor with him.
ShadowDragon8685 02-17-05, 03:50 PM	This is a confirmed Charlie Foxtrot. You need spells that will prevent him from being mobile, that don't give him saves. Maybe trick him into a box canyon or something?
Metabubbles 02-17-05, 04:16 PM	I guess we deserve that, but you have to admit anybody with speed, spell resistance, high saves and multiple attacks can hit and run. Don't get me wrong, I think a high enough level bard would definitely give us fits, but surely not as bad as a monk. I am building multiple builds of monks, to learn the ways of the monk, so thank you for that piece of advice. Again, I really don't want to metagame too much, but good tactics are always available (man I wished Int was my main stat, not Chr). My DM will receive the proper 'props' for such an ingenious NPC, just not until we kill it, um, capture and interrogate it first (then kill it...). I will forward the thread to him. Thanks again
Nuntius128 02-17-05, 04:22 PM	A Monk can only do so much once you lower its ability scores. Find some way to damage them after casting Lower Spell Resistance, and he doesn't have much to do. Or find a way to grapple him so he can't keep moving. Also, have your Fighter, or any melee character, ready attacks for when he moves.
primemover003 02-17-05, 05:00 PM	One enlarge person spell on your dwarf will nip the trip right in the bud!!! Monk's are notoriously tough if they can keep their mobility and stay out of a slugfest. Tumble, Mobility, Spring attack, Abundant Step (Dim. Door) are all hit and run, blitzkrieg tactics Monks rely on. It sounds like he's got a Retributive strike kind of thing going on (whomever his dodge bonus is on that misses him he gets a free attack--sounds like a tactical feat). Stop trying to affect the monk with spells. His saves and SR will thwart about 50% of your spells. Prepare spells that affect your party. They'll be 100% effective every time! Haste Circle of Protection from Law Bless Summon Swarm (no attack roll, no SR, move it into his space 1d6 damage, he can't attack it!!!) Targeted Dispel Magic on him (might as well knock out any defensive spells or buffs he might have or a magit item) Stoneskin Any of the Bigby's spells (forceful hand is great) Repulsion/Sanctuary/Anti-life shell (keep the monk away from your casters) Heroism & greater
EarthForce 02-17-05, 05:06 PM	Hmm... if you think you could succeed at a DC 14+ caster level check (I say this as you aren't a high enough level to cast it normally) or if your rogue has enough ranks in use magic device you might have an option of completely immobilizing him. You could try to obtain a scroll of forcecage. Your DM might not allow it and of course if might not work with a chance of mishap, but it allows no saving throw or spell resistance and lasts a long time. The monks abundant step ability (the one that mimics dimesion door ) can escape this however so make sure you have that dimensional anchor in place. If it works, you have a monk whom you can take out from a distance (And perhaps close up if you accidentally trap someone else in the cage). However this isn't reliable, and your DM might not let you just happen to buy any level 7 scroll your looking for. Also you said your DM was playing the monk intelligently so the monk may have ways around this tactic. So don't rely on it. With the monk's abilites all saves will be high. But the way ability scores are usually assigned for monks Fortitude saves will probably be the most vulnerable, although still quite high (Wisdom is a key ability for monk's, and Reflex is somethat strengthened by the evasion abilities). Your probably aware of all this, but just a friendly reminder. Otherwise just follow the advice of the other posters here as theirs may be more effective.
EarthForce 02-17-05, 05:11 PM	Stop trying to affect the monk with spells. His saves and SR will thwart about 50% of your spells. Prepare spells that affect your party. They'll be 100% effective every time! Being a sorcerer I'm not sure what spells you have access to, but even so... primeover003 has a very good point. By chance could you post the spells known by your sorcerer so the other board member's can better offer you some advice. Heck, if you could throw in some information on your other party members that would help as well.
Metabubbles 02-17-05, 05:35 PM	#1 best spell vs monk Lower spell resistance 4th level 6th Chain Lightning 5th Teleport, Hold Monster, 4th G. Invisibility, shout, Lower spell resistance 3rd Fireball, Lightning bolt, Fly, dispel magic 2nd Scorching ray, web, shatter, invisibility 1st Magic missile (seeing a theme?) *I took the feat to change any evoc spell w/an energy type to acid.
Abulafia 02-17-05, 06:32 PM	Do you have an idea of what level this monk is? It could be that he's a little out of your league (Lvl 16 or higher, probably), and that's why you have trouble with him. I play a monk frequently, but I can't think of how I could take a full party without getting waxed. My usual tactic is typical: spring attack, stun, if stun succeeds stay there and full attack next round, if not spring back & repeat. I also tend to use a lot of attacks of opportunity (combat reflexes + hold the line). I can handle a spellcaster or rogue okay, but a straight-up fighter? High Fort saves are anathema to me. He shouldn't be beating a Dwarven Defender with trip attacks. He just shouldn't be. Check your DM's math very carefully. Try readying a Magic Missile for when he tries to DD out of there. Very few monks put skill points into Concentration.
primemover003 02-17-05, 06:33 PM	Are you seeing a pattern in your past encounters with the monk that your blast happy spell selection hasn't really been that effective? Just because you've lowered his SR doesn't mean the spells will work. He's still got ALL GOOD SAVES. Work Smarter Not Harder...
Delfedd 02-17-05, 07:15 PM	Defeat a high level monk? you might as well put your HP down to -9 right now! ;) But seriously. You need magic missle. LOTS of magic missle.
primemover003 02-17-05, 08:04 PM	A simple brooch of shielding, a potion of shield, or his SR is likely to kill that idea.
tiercel 02-17-05, 08:25 PM	My experience is that a well-built, well-played monk character (with reasonably high stats) is one of the hardest characters to actually kill. He may not have the offensive melee punch of a fighter or the raw blasting power of a wizard, but nailing him down and putting the hurt on is tough. I'd like to suggest the humble tanglefoot bag. Nailing the monk will be a bit tricky since his touch AC is likely to be close to his full AC, but you only have to hit once. Sure, he's practically guaranteed to make his Reflex save, but he's still only moving at half speed once you tag him once. On the magic front, telekinesis is pretty nasty if you remote-grapple him with it (you still have to break his SR, but he doesn't get a save against this application). Note that you get to use your caster level for BAB and your casting stat in place of Strength. Tasty. Evard's black tentacles.... no save, no SR.] If your DM hasn't nerfed web and you aren't in an open area, you should almost certainly web him. No SR, and even on a successful Reflex save he is moving pretty slowly for at least a round or two unless his Escape Artist skill is truly godlike. Also, stick together -- he can only flurry-attack you as a full-round attack, which means he isn't dancing away. If you're in a neat clump, then at least one of your partymates should be able to 5' adjust and full-round on him -- monks are good at a number of things, but prolonged "stand and deliver" isn't one of them. Just don't be surprised when he Tumbles right out next round.
J.B. 02-17-05, 08:57 PM	Well you can always try any of the Orb spells (Acid Orb, Cold Orb, Fire Orb, etc) and empower it. With no save (not including the secondary effects) and no spell resistance allowed against the spell, all you need is a decent touch attack and your set.
SwollenOstrich 02-17-05, 09:08 PM	One option is to have your wizard buy or make a couple scrolls of true strike, then mem a couple enervations. Assuming he is around 16th level, a lucky enervation will completly remove his spell resistance, and reduce his speed by 10 feet. Of course, you are still going to have to roll above a 17 or so unless you have spell penetration (the only means i know of overcomming SR). This is obviously the less graceful solution. Other than that, haste and enlarge your dwarven defender. Even with haste though, a dwarf in full platemale probably wont be able to keep up. Your spells arent going to be able to hurt him, so dont bother. Maybe get a rod of summons and put a bunch of creatures between him and the exit.
Kulthos 02-17-05, 11:48 PM	The dwarven defender should be able to smash him. It does sound like your DM is playing fast and loose with the tripping rules. Enlarging the defender should make the monk run away. If the monk is a stunner than grapple him, BTW. Monks have a poor BaB compared to a fighter, and are usually much weaker than a good fighter. Actually, at those levels, improved grapple doesn't make up for the loss of BaB. Entangle spells, web, or anything like that will goof him up pretty well.
zerpentor 02-17-05, 11:59 PM	Flight... simple as that.. a monk don't stand a chance against an airborne opponent
PhaedrusXY 02-18-05, 12:26 AM	How is he tripping you every time you miss? I seem to remember some feat from CW, but I'm not sure.Defensive Throw. Polymorph the dwarf into something big, buff his strength, and have him grapple the monk. The monk's BAB should be lower than his, and unless the monk took Imp. Grapple, the dwarf should beat him. Hit the monk with Dimensional Anchor to keep him from getting away. Have the dwarf initiate the grapple from within a Darkness spell, so the monk can't make an Attack of Opportunity on him for trying to grapple without Improved Grapple.
Kulthos 02-18-05, 12:58 AM	Flight... simple as that.. a monk don't stand a chance against an airborne opponent Flight and summoned creatures with high movement and scent :-) Man, did we mess up the assassin with that one. Thanks for reminding me. Monks don't put out enough damage to deal with a bunch of summoned critters.
Metabubbles 02-18-05, 09:25 AM	Ok assuming he doesn't kill me*, I cast lower spell resistance, the cleric cast's dimensional anchor and away we go. We all have horses and after reading the many articles regarding mounts, it seems a good idea we stay on the horses and we should surround him. The wizard/Eldritch Knight has enervation, and the next round I can cast greater invisibility on the rogue. Yes, I think the monk is at least lvl 16, and I know we almost had him when he dim door. Unfortunately to kill him it will be our 3rd encounter with him, we never had 'anybody' last more than 1 encounter! So yes we are definitely factoring in the +4 for being a dwarf for tripping (the dwarven defender player is getting his masters in computers & math; what the degree name is I have no idea; basically he is smart, has his character memorized and well written down on his character sheet.) its just the monk has a better score and better rolling than the dwarf (you can't beat the dice...). After talking with all of you, I have planned the above actions, also I will request the cleric to get into combat as well. That should help the flanking, and she can fight defensively to help shield some unwanted attacks. The dwarf by the way just turned 12th level, I think his AC is 37 w/def stance. That seems a bit surreal to me. *the reason I say this is it's a full rd casting, and I have to be within 55' from beginning to end of the spell.
ck2001wendt 02-18-05, 09:30 AM	Now our party (also level 12....coincidence?) is having the same problem with a Monk...one that can also go Ethereal! How would you advise someone that has the same situation, against a foe that can avoid physical attacks seemingly at will? (My guess is he's got some sort of bracers or a use-activated item w. Etherealness on it)
Aricandor 02-18-05, 09:47 AM	I'd say you should use Assay Resistance instead of Lower Spell Resistance. The general consensus seems to be that AR is better (something I'd agree with), and he isn't even allowed to save against it. Exchange it for Lower Resistance at the next opportunity. Then you whack him with no-save spells (the Orb spells or Enervation combined with True Strike is even better than Assay Resistance). Get scrolls of Enervation if you can't cast it yourself, as well as scrolls of True Strike. You and the EK will have reduced his level with ~4 in two rounds. If you can get Empowered or Maximized scrolls it's even better. The DD, polymorphed into a really nasty thing will keep the monk in place. The rogue... Well... I don't remember if or when monks get Improved Uncanny Dodge, but an invisible rogue unleashing a full sneak attack on an unsuspecting foe will hurt a lot. If you have the proper book, scrolls of Fleshshiver will have him pinned down. I've personally always regarded that spell as overpowered though, so maybe your DM won't allow it, even if you have theoretical access to it. Ethereal Jaunt + Transdimensional Spell feat will make you untouchable to him! Haha!
Kulthos 02-18-05, 03:20 PM	One thing that gets me is how little a threat the monk seems to be. He is great at running away, but you guys must be more annoyed than frightened.
Mikal 02-18-05, 03:29 PM	Hit him with a high DC fort save, in my experience monks don't tend to have huge fort saves. Wait til he Dim. Doors, then whack him. Hit him with spells. Monks have all good saves, and usually have good stats to back them up. PLUS Evasion. Dimensional Anchor the area, have your strongest guy grapple him, and start hitting him with direct damage effects.
RPGDudeNYC 02-18-05, 04:17 PM	With respect to the statements about Fort being the lowest save... I think what those people are saying is that, although a Monk's base saves are equal at all levels, most Monks favor enhancements to Dex and Wis over enhancements to Con. The end result is Fort being their lowest save.
Mikal 02-18-05, 04:19 PM	With respect to the statements about Fort being the lowest save... I think what those people are saying is that, although a Monk's base saves are equal at all levels, most Monks favor enhancements to Dex and Wis over enhancements to Con. The end result is Fort being their lowest save. So rather then a +14 will and reflex save, they have a +12 fort save? nah.... still not a good idea. direct damage and grappling him with a bigger guy is your best bet.
RPGDudeNYC 02-18-05, 04:30 PM	:P I wasn't actually defending the notion of hitting the monk with spells requiring a Fort save. I was merely explaining why people were saying that Fort is usually a monk's lowest save. I agree wholeheartedly that the best tactic against a monk is physical, not magical.
Purkake 02-18-05, 08:32 PM	Just ready attacks to hit him when he runs by. Or grapple him (with your enlarged and buffed fighter OR with something that you can summon)
VoodooMike 02-20-05, 05:01 AM	ck2001wendt - if you're facing a monk that can go ethereal then he's at least level 19, which puts him well out of the league of a 12th level party. Unless you DM is just a jerk, it likely means you're supposed to AVOID the fight altogether. The key to fighting pretty much any enemy is to capitalize on your strengths and their weaknesses. Monks are fast and resistant, but they have limited overall mobility and are usually poor at range. Casters can take advantage of this by making themselves mobile and staying AT range. Take to the air - any spell that lets you stay out of reach and cast is good. Not being in range of an enemy's attacks is the same thing as having an AC of infinity, really. Next, if you're not on the first fight with this monk then you have plenty of time to prepare. Depending on which books your group is using, you can do a bit of creative powergaming. One of my personal favorites is the "Fell Drain" metamagic feat from Libris Mortis, combined with the cantrip "Horizikaul's Cough". The resulting spell is level 2 (a level of spell that is usually underwhelming for a blaster mage) and is an automatic hit spell that deals one negative level. Lower the monk's spell resistance then just soften him up a bit - you need only deal with the spell resistance... no AC, no saves. Your cleric can play blaster mage by tossing up Antilife Shell and taking pot shots with the terribly innapropriate cleric-usable spell Sound Lance, which requires a fortitude save for half damage rather than a reflex, and thus avoids the monk's evasion abilities. Have Tank the Dwarf go total defense and lure the monk into Close spell range and open up.
Ra-Tiel 02-20-05, 10:41 AM	Hello. Why not go for an old favorite: quickened true strike in combination with disintegrate. Even if he makes his save he will take 5d6 points of damage - most likely more than from any evocation spell you could throw against him. If you have the spare money, get a metamagic rod of maximize. That'll really put the *ouch* in this combo. Alternatives: (1) Try to hit him with Bands of Steel from Complete Arcane. Very nasty: if he *succeeds* on his Ref Save, he's entangled; if he fails, he's *helpless*. CdG-time! And the best: no SR! (2) Load up on Defenestrating Spheres, also from CA. Three or four of them should really put the strain on the monk (one each from the eldritch knight, the sorcerer and the rogue; perhaps also from the cleric but that depends on his domains). (3) Encase him with Spiritwalls, again from CA (strange coincidence, isn't it? ;)) No save, no SR wall spell, deals 1d10 points of damage on touch and 1d10 points of damage and 1 negative level if passed through (fort save negates negative level). And it blocks all magical (read: spells, [sp] and [su]) abilities. (4) Deific Vengeance for the cleric should also help, from Complete Divine. 1d6/2 casterlevels (max 5d6), with Will half. It allows SR, but at least he will suffer some damage, no shrug it all off. (5) A new alltime favorite for clerics and arcane casters is shivering touch from Frostburn. Melee touch attack (spectral hand, anyone?) with SR but no save and it does an insane 3d6 dexterity damage. As the spell's written, the minimum is 0. Happy dodging for the monk with dex5! (6) Hearthfreeze is also very nasty; you can find it also in FB. It allows SR (it seems you hardly can get around it), but if you affect him he must make a Fort save. If he fails, he's immediatly exhausted and simply dies in 1d3+2 rounds. If he succeeds, he suffers 5d8 points of damage. (7) Or, pure and simple swarm him with summons: ready a small army of large fire elemental that should swarm and attack him. Each time they hit him he must make ref saves or catch fire. Each time he hits them he also must make a ref save or catch fire. It's very inconvenient if you have to make ~7 ref saves a round and if you fail 1 you start burning. And if he catches fire he either takes damage every round or wastes a round putting the flames out. Just my :twocents: _Ra-Tiel.
Nephlite 02-20-05, 10:57 AM	The key to fighting pretty much any enemy is to capitalize on your strengths and their weaknesses. Monks are fast and resistant, but they have limited overall mobility and are usually poor at range. Casters can take advantage of this by making themselves mobile and staying AT range. Take to the air - any spell that lets you stay out of reach and cast is good. Not being in range of an enemy's attacks is the same thing as having an AC of infinity, really. . Whoa, Monks gain Leap of the Clouds. If the Monk has a Ring of Jump/jump cast on him: he can reach very high hieghts and probably hit said caster once before falling back down.
Kulthos 02-20-05, 01:00 PM	Whoa, Monks gain Leap of the Clouds. If the Monk has a Ring of Jump/jump cast on him: he can reach very high hieghts and probably hit said caster once before falling back down. Leap of the clouds is meaningless if you have a ring of Jumping. Anyone with one of those can jump well. What would be a real problem is something that lets him fly.
DevilKiller 02-20-05, 02:24 PM	Since you say he was almost defeated before it seems like the real problem here is the Dimension Door. My suggestion is to find a way to increase the range of your spells. A metamagic rod or soem scrolls might work fine. I'll assume you've got a good look at the monk or can next time you meet him, so pick out some object he carries, perhaps a belt or amulet. Then when the monk dimesion doors away you can just locate the object. Unless he's taken it off maybe you can find him, Dimension Door over yourselves, and start into whooping on him again. There are various high level divination spells which can lead you to the monk as well. Also, don't be a victim. You're letting this guy pop in when he feels liek it, beat you up a little, and run away. You have to take the fight to him. When he tries to go to bed at night you should teleport into his bedroom, let loose some ennervation and save or die spells, and teleport right back out. If you're in a prolonged fight you can show him what mobility is really about by using Dimension Door to stay out of range. Then keep on blasting him with the biggest guns you have. I figure save or die spells are always a good bet since he'll eventually fail. If you can hit his touch AC then ennervation is more of a sure thing. He's magic resistant, not magic proof...
Andrew_980 02-20-05, 05:51 PM	This sounds like the "invulnerable Dm pet NPC". you won't kill it , he won't let you. he will fudge rolls and nerf your plans every time. this is one of those times to look at your dm and say"dude this isnt cool, cut it out", or just give him a good hearty pimp-slap
VoodooMike 02-21-05, 01:59 AM	Whoa, Monks gain Leap of the Clouds. If the Monk has a Ring of Jump/jump cast on him: he can reach very high hieghts and probably hit said caster once before falling back down. I suppose it depends on whether he's a 3.5 monk, as I assumed, or a 3.0 monk. There's no such thing as "Leap of the Clouds" in 3.5 - even if we use 3.0, there's only so high that monk will be jumping vertically, and he'll still be limited to a single attack if he reaches those heights. Leap of the clouds is meaningless if you have a ring of Jumping. Anyone with one of those can jump well. What would be a real problem is something that lets him fly. Yes and he'll be a real terror if he can breath cones of negative energy and/or if he can cast implosion at will, but I tend to assume random powers not generally associated with a monk, are not really important to plan around. This sounds like the "invulnerable Dm pet NPC". you won't kill it , he won't let you. he will fudge rolls and nerf your plans every time. this is one of those times to look at your dm and say"dude this isnt cool, cut it out", or just give him a good hearty pimp-slap Ever play through "The Bastion of Broken Souls" module? It's one of the official adventure modules WoTC put out, and at one point you get to take 26 chain attacks at +36, each doing 2d6+16 points of damage... that's each round. Characters are around level 18 when they start this module, so ask yourself how likely your level 18 character is to survive that onslaught. I'm one of the most ardent powergamers I know, and my well crafted character barely managed to handle that while in full defense. It's not always a sign that the DM wants you to lose. Some challenges are meant to test your ingenuity, rather than just your straight stats, equipment and spells.... and sometimes you're meant to retreat from an encounter and come back with a bit more wisdom next time (in this case, literally.. we levelled and while my ECL is 18, my actual class level just hit 16, and I dropped a point into wisdom). One of the most annoying players I ever had to deal with used to declare difficult encounters "TPKs" during a ghostwalk campaign. She just assumed any encounter they had difficulty with was one they were meant to lose. Don't assume anything of the sort when you're playing.
Shard Avengard 02-23-05, 10:50 AM	alot of these ideas are fine and good if you can prepare.... But here's one in case you can't prepare. 1 ) Let the monk go first. If your init comes up first, "DELAY". 2 ) Dwarven Defender needs to go Second to last so have him Delay if neccessary. 3 ) Rogue needs to go LAST, so have him delay if neccessary. 4 ) Move your Cleric, Eldritch Knight, and Sorcerer RIGHT NEXT to the MONK. Have each one use a move action, then as a standard action ASSIST the Dwarven Defender on attacking. 5 ) Dwarven Defender - GRAPPLE THE MONK. (take improved grapple feat or 1 level in monk to make this even better) (being enlarged would help also). with 3 people assiting, you can pretty much count on +6 Bonus which is greater than the monks improved grapple, if he's got it. 6 ) Have the rogue sneak attack the monk, who's denied his dex in a grapple. Remember the monk has to beat ALL of yer grapple checks to get away. With your next action PIN him ASAP. And silence him in the pin. let the rogue polish him off. ======================================== ==== Baring that tactic, Cluster Up. Monks can't deal enough damage ranged wise to outdo a cleric healing. And the last thing they want to do is stand toe to toe with a fighter and trade blows.
The_Grikk 02-23-05, 02:27 PM	you do realize that everytime he retreats you gain the experience for beating him. So i say as long as you arnt coming close to being defeated your self dont sweat it. Soon enough you'll all level and that alone might be enough to to the trick.
Metabubbles 03-11-05, 12:02 PM	I know that sounds evil, but finally we got him! We have a Gold dragon 'friend' (not sure what to call him) and he was hurt fighting a Draco-lich. The evil green draco-lich being injured himself retreats, and we (not the gold dragon) chase. We are underground in his lair and to hinder our progress a monk was spotted along with an Evil wizard/cleric. Either the DM wanted us to kill him or he was instructed 'at all cost' type of deal to slow us down. But our cleric cast a celestial dire lion that was able to chase down the monk (and actually hit him multiple times, 5 attacks each time he 'pounced'). Sad to say, our rogue was invisible, but couldn't hit the monk, literally rolled 2,3,4,5,6,4; ROFL!!! We got the monk cornered and finished him off (of course I tried to lower his spell resistance, but moved out of the range of the spell!!!!aaaaarrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh... .....). Once the wizard became visible again the rogue exploded his heart with like 64 points of dmg on the first attack (crit x3...!!!) sneaky with a bow. wELL just an update, later days