Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Toast_recon 04-07-07, 04:13 PM	As a DM would you allow this. I am a human who was abandoned in the gnome lands. The gnomes accepted me as my own. I will most likely gain all human attributes as they are not cultural. But since I grew up in the gnome lands and I am a cleric, would you let me have Garl Glittergold as my Patron deity? I have yet to start my game or talk to my DM, but I want to get this straight before I full on create a backstory and plan my feats and spells. I read in the players handbook that character features such as a dwarves proficciency with (Giiants?Ogres?) Go away and they pick up new ones if raised in a society of another race.(sorry i am citing from memory, I can't find the page.) I wanted to know if deities work the same way as cultural attributes Please help Thanks in advance, Toast
Toast_recon 04-07-07, 04:34 PM	:bump:
The Ubbergeek 04-07-07, 04:44 PM	It's quite rare, but it happened indeed that 'accultured' people are spiritually 'adopted' by the gods of the adopting people. Like Cattie Brie of Forgotten Realms, who was such an orphan if I remember well, and venerated the gods of the dwarves, Moradin especially. If the background is good and reasonable, and the god compactible, i'd allow it.
wizarddog 04-07-07, 04:51 PM	As long as your characters, a human, can worship the God the and become a cleric there is no reason why not. The God's description would indicate that.
Pfisiar 04-07-07, 04:54 PM	There is nothing to indicate that Garl Glitterlode doesn't have worshipers among other races. At least there's nothing in the PHB to that extent. I would just imagine that it's very rare. Kind of like how it's rare for Dwarves not to worship Morradin, but I've seen it happen.
Toast_recon 04-07-07, 05:00 PM	from the player's handbook If the typical worshippers of a deity include the members of a race, a cleric must be of the indicated race to choose that deity as his own.page 32, under deity,domains,and domain spells.Garl glittergold has gnomes as typical worshipers. EDIT: Not to say that it should not be allowed of course
AZNsupermarket 04-07-07, 05:08 PM	RAW, you can't be cleric of another race's deity. I personally think that this is a stupid rule, especially in a scenario like the one you mentioned. I say, ask your dm, and see if he'll go for it.
Pfisiar 04-07-07, 05:12 PM	from the player's handbook page 32, under deity,domains,and domain spells.Garl glittergold has gnomes as typical worshipers. EDIT: Not to say that it should not be allowed of course Bah, that seems kind of silly to me. But it is Raw. I don't like it because it restricts character concepts unecessarily.
kelvinaw273 04-07-07, 05:25 PM	I would say that the church hierarchy would probably no taccept you. But I would actually find it a lot of fun if you decided to run a human Favoured Soul of Garl Glittergold! This gets around the RAW and has some wonderful RP opportunities attached - especially with gnomes!
Toast_recon 04-07-07, 05:34 PM	Yeah, I suppose that there is no logical reason I shouldn't be allowed to have GG as my Patron deity. Hey, who knows? Maybe the gnomes let me in because of GG,and I swore loyalty to him because of it. Man, this makes for a great backstory. Feel free to use a story like this as a backstory for a character or an NPC. Abandoned, left to die. Ignored by natives. Deity commands Natives to accept him into society. Sounds maybe like a favored soul. EDIT: I don't drink or do drugs, but I must have been high when I wrote this! Disregard anything from feel free to the next period.
Richmud 04-07-07, 07:29 PM	There is actually a PrC that could help with this. The stoneblessed from races of stone is a 3 level PrC that lets you count as a gnome (or a dwarf or a goliath you choose at the start). It basically designed for your exact situation
mcnoo 04-07-07, 07:29 PM	Feel free to use a story like this as a backstory for a character or an NPC. Oh, thank you for giving us your permission. May I also make use of the wheel?*
darkneolink 04-07-07, 07:46 PM	Oh, thank you for giving us your permission. May I also make use of the wheel?* yeah but only because I feel generous I don't see why not I'd just rule out that line and done but if he doesn't want you too become a FS and problem solved or an acolite
Toast_recon 04-07-07, 09:39 PM	Oh, thank you for giving us your permission. May I also make use of the wheel?*Hey, you would be surprised about some of the things people do. They start flaming you because your homebrew class looked similar to theirs when it was just some big coincidence.I just wanted to tell you that I won't hunt you down like a dog and kill you in your sleep just because you used a character like this. But who knows, maybe I am crazy, only a crazy person would use the word toast in his name.:looloo: By the way, I love your little *, you seem to use it in just about every post. EDIT: I see what you mean though, it does seem a little controlling of me to tell you that I am not limiting what you can do.Now if only I had a way to point out to you all that was ironic.<thinks hard>
Neutronium_Dragon 04-07-07, 09:57 PM	In "The North", a 2E FR boxed set, one of the dwarves in Daggerford was stated to be involved in Garl Glittergold's faith. No one in town seemed to be particularly scandalized by this (including other dwarves), and since Daggerford is a typical small town environment, if it passes without much comment there, it's probably viable anywhere.
kelvinaw273 04-07-07, 11:32 PM	That's more understandable - I mean, dwarves, gnomes, they are both short and hairy .... don't know how their own gods tell them apart, myself ;)
Swordsage01 04-08-07, 03:05 AM	Now why else would we have evil cults of Tiamat sacrificing people if they didnt get benefits?
Pfisiar 04-08-07, 09:10 AM	Now why else would we have evil cults of Tiamat sacrificing people if they didnt get benefits? They could, of course, just be a bunch of crazies. Just because you worship a god or goddess, doesn't mean that god or goddess is inclined to count you among her chosen or to listen to your requests. A mean-spirited god or goddess might smite you for your presumption. :P
Kouk 04-08-07, 09:45 AM	RAW: no. My campaign: Why the hell not. It depends on the campaign's deities.
mcnoo 04-08-07, 10:17 AM	Hey, you would be surprised about some of the things people do. They start flaming you because your homebrew class looked similar to theirs when it was just some big coincidence.I just wanted to tell you that I won't hunt you down like a dog and kill you in your sleep just because you used a character like this. But who knows, maybe I am crazy, only a crazy person would use the word toast in his name.:looloo: By the way, I love your little *, you seem to use it in just about every post. EDIT: I see what you mean though, it does seem a little controlling of me to tell you that I am not limiting what you can do.Now if only I had a way to point out to you all that was ironic.<thinks hard> I meant this is such a well known stereotypical background that it was parodied over a decade ago by Terry Pratchett's Captain Carrot. You can't really give us permission to use it because everyone's already done it many times over. (does my comment about re-inventing the wheel make any more sense now?)
The Ubbergeek 04-08-07, 11:07 AM	RAW: no. My campaign: Why the hell not. It depends on the campaign's deities. Indeed. I am not sure an half-orc would find a blessing of Corelion on him, by example. But I think that, and it's very rare, let us remember, that if a god find a soul that is very close of his ideals in another race, he'd look out for it. Key ideas; 1. Gods are not just 'gods of X', they ARE x. Like Moradin is the very embodiment of what is a dwarf, what is dwarvenhood. 2. And so, they are worshipped by peoples who trust into this ideas, believes in it, etc... 3. It is not just the race for me, but the mindset. there is quite a few demihumans and nonhumans who worship human or panracial gods and pantheons, like Paladine, Erythnull, Shar, etc.... 4. So, in my idea, someone who is very impregnated, very accultured by example, would venerate not the gods of his flesh people, but the ones of his adoptive culture, parents, etc, to use my example of Cattie Brie. Cattie Brie may be an human in race, but her outlook, her mindset, her culture, she is a dwarf girl but in blood. 5. Hence so, as the more probable scenario, Moradin may very well, as she 'have the soul of a dwarf', Smiles upon her and give her the Blessing if He wished of course and if she wanted to take priesthood. The final decision is up to Him, of course. To make the counterpoint. an elven paladin of Tyr or Heironeous is usually an oddball, not following a typical elf mindset - frequently, such peoples are adopted by humans, or assimilated in the human world and culture(s). Religion and faith in D&D is also a matter of, well, faith, ideals and believes. Of course, all of this is about a character who want to really follow a god, take the vows and become an agent of His Will. Anyone usually can pay homage to a god of another race, offers Him a tribute, a prayer of respect, placate Him with a sacrifice etc... generaly, albeit again, it depend on who is the god and who pray.
Toast_recon 04-08-07, 12:04 PM	Indeed. I am not sure an half-orc would find a blessing of Corelion on him, by example. But I think that, and it's very rare, let us remember, that if a god find a soul that is very close of his ideals in another race, he'd look out for it. Key ideas; 1. Gods are not just 'gods of X', they ARE x. Like Moradin is the very embodiment of what is a dwarf, what is dwarvenhood. 2. And so, they are worshipped by peoples who trust into this ideas, believes in it, etc... 3. It is not just the race for me, but the mindset. there is quite a few demihumans and nonhumans who worship human or panracial gods and pantheons, like Paladine, Erythnull, Shar, etc.... 4. So, in my idea, someone who is very impregnated, very accultured by example, would venerate not the gods of his flesh people, but the ones of his adoptive culture, parents, etc, to use my example of Cattie Brie. Cattie Brie may be an human in race, but her outlook, her mindset, her culture, she is a dwarf girl but in blood. 5. Hence so, as the more probable scenario, Moradin may very well, as she 'have the soul of a dwarf', Smiles upon her and give her the Blessing if He wished of course and if she wanted to take priesthood. The final decision is up to Him, of course. To make the counterpoint. an elven paladin of Tyr or Heironeous is usually an oddball, not following a typical elf mindset - frequently, such peoples are adopted by humans, or assimilated in the human world and culture(s). Religion and faith in D&D is also a matter of, well, faith, ideals and believes. Of course, all of this is about a character who want to really follow a god, take the vows and become an agent of His Will. Anyone usually can pay homage to a god of another race, offers Him a tribute, a prayer of respect, placate Him with a sacrifice etc... generaly, albeit again, it depend on who is the god and who pray. Couldn't have put it better myself. Ps: I did get the wheel comment the first time, but people still flame you for something that has been done many times before. Course they are crazy idiots who only read their own threads and threads like theirs that were started after theirs was. They are just looking for an excuse to flame you. Of course, I may have said something like that if I was in your situation,but without the awesome*
kelvinaw273 04-08-07, 04:22 PM	Now why else would we have evil cults of Tiamat sacrificing people if they didnt get benefits? You can get real-world cults of nutters that do all sorts of things for no tangible benefits whatsoever, so why not in D&D?
mcnoo 04-08-07, 04:31 PM	You can get real-world cults of nutters that do all sorts of things for no tangible benefits whatsoever, so why not in D&D? Except for the reward of a wonderful afterlife, spiritual enlightenment and so on and so forth, which rather than abstract concepts in reality actually mean something in a world where deities regularly prove their power. The benefits in the real world are intangible because the deities are intangible. The benefit of worshiping Tiamat is that Tiamat is kept happy. No one likes an angry god, especially the evil ones with a horde of dragons at their command. You can't really compare real religion to d&d religion.
Toast_recon 04-08-07, 10:13 PM	The benefits in the real world are intangible because the deities are intangible. I may just have to put that in my sig. Wise words indeed.