Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheBlackLotus 10-17-04, 12:30 PM	Hello everyone, thank you for opening this thread,.. and thank you for any feedback that might be put within it. First,.. I shall start off with a very short history of whats going on, so thta you can all be in a better understanding of the current setting of our game. Currently, our group has just entered into myth drannor. This is our super established group of charecters, that have done everything in our campaign world to change events,... these are the "big guns". The reason why we are there: We are currently in the forgotten realms timeline, where evereska is under heavy seige. My charecter, a lvl 22 monk (20 lvls monk, 2 levels of enlightened scholar from the quint. monk book by mongoose), is an elven protector, and charged by the queen of evermeet to gather a band of heroes to journey to myth drannor, and find an ancient elven artifact that will help sustain the mythel. It,.. has annoyed the DM's for about 5 years now, that they cannot take my monk down, no matter what they do. Yesterday at this past gaming session,.. The DM decided to have a bbeg use a spell on me. "Power Word Charm" he called it. Its one that he made up on the spot to effect me. Now,... power word kill, power word stun, ect, have hp limits that the charecter needs to be at, for them to work on you. 100 hp's,.... 200hp's,.... 200 hp's is the highest one listed in the players handbook for the power word spells. SO,..... the dm decided to use "power word charm" on me,... not caring that i had 314 hitpoints at that moment. Even if his made up spell was so much more powerful then power word kill (charm more powerful then kill?) It'd be 300 or less hitpoints,.... but I was at 314. /shrug. ANYWAYS,... the last round of the charm, the evil guy told me to "destroy my skill". Pretty much, I started popping and tearing all of my tendons, then fell to the ground in a crumpled heap with 1 hitpoint.... But,.. I was still alive. The OTHER CHARECTERS,... 1 in particular,.. one of our normal DM"s, who was playing his elf fighter/rogue, that I have fought alongside NUMEROUS times,.. and we both are charged on this adventure, by the ruling elves of evereska and evermeet to go do this thing to save the elven race,.... Begins to undress and loot my body, while im still alive. This is after he makes a spot check, and a heal check, to see that Im still alive, and that my eyes are moving and I can see everything. Once HE starts looting my body,.. he takes one of my rings, the one that protects me from negative energy attacks, that I paid 98,000 gold for. Bear in mind,.. he is chaotic good. And an elf... we are charged to do this by the elves,... im a high elven protector... Another charecter comes over and takes off my belt, which is a family heirloom that I have had for years because he doesnt have a belt. Another charecter strips off my cloak, so that he can give it to one of his charecters friends that isnt even there. They say it is their "payment for saving my life". When in actuality, all that they did after they looted me, was a heal check on me, because they said if they had to waste a healing potion on my charecter, that they would take more magic off of me. I had to beg/barter with guy that took my belt, to get it back, and now owe him the help for repaying a debt of honor (which isnt going to be a good thing). The other guy gave me my cloak back, after agreeing to come to his aid one time, no questions asked, whenever he called upon me, with no questions. (hurray for me as a lawful good monk). And the guy who took my ring,.... wouldnt give it back. It makes me extremely mad, that these guys, just in their desire to finally be able to hurt my charecter,... would use charecters that have adventured with me before, to loot my body, WHILE I AM STILL ALIVE, after all of the countless times that I have saved all of them over the years,.. and then make me BARTER and plead with them, to get the majority of my magic items back. MY QUESTION!!!!! I am a human monk. I have never played an elf, and am not sure how to rollplay them. I am lawful,.... elves are chaotic. Through the magic of my one remaining ring, a ring gifted to me by the queen of evermeet (the ring of the elven protector),... I have slowly been becoming an elf, my body has slowly been changing to an elf. Out of charecter,... I have 1 day left before I turn elf completely,.. from human. My question,.. when I become elf, I am going to turn from lawful, to chaotic, for a short time, until through meditations, self discipline, ect,.. I can get myself to be lawful again. HOWEVER in the meantime,.. these guys just totally undressed my charecter, a hero of the realms, a protector of the elves, and a friend who has saved most of their lives many times,... while I was still alive, and watching, they didnt care. How would I rollplay a chaotic good elf,.. having had those things happen to him by his party members, the day before. I do not know how to rollplay an elf, as I have not done it before. If you were my charecter, who is normally a lawful good monk, that keeps the desire I have to beat my groupmates into coma's for the disrespect they put upon me by stripping me like a common dead orc to loot for items, and make me barter and beg to get them back (though the one guy still wont give me my ring),... When I turn elf in 1 days time, and am more chaotic good instead of lawful good,.... how should I act, what would YOU do, what would my outlook upon it be, and how would I treat my party. It makes me kind of not even want to game with this group again for a long long time, just because of how sick/mad it makes me thinking about it. And no matter what I say, it wont change anything, because they are all the charecters were being played by dm's, that think my charecter is to powerful anyways, when in fact, I do less damage then a few of them, and have been getting hit alot lately. I just dont know what to do, or how to act with this, and it really makes me sick how they acted. We have had party members go down to 1 hitpoint,.. -6 hitpoints,... and NONE of the charecters from yesterday, has ever begun undressing and looting a party member before,.... before I fell that is. We have always healed each other, or tried to save each other, then suddenly these same charecters begin to strip off and keep all of my magic, cause its "my guy" finally. Like a pack of dogs on roadkill.
odhen 10-17-04, 01:13 PM	Unless your character's mind is being changed by this ring as well, I don't see why your alignment would change.
Mal20 10-17-04, 01:24 PM	During your Chaotic Good phase you could mete out some restorative justice. If you can take them out single handedly do so, get back your stuff and break some bones as punishment, maybe take a valued item from each. If they're too strong for you wait until they are asleep, strip each of them and leave. Return their goods to the Queen, and exlplain what has happened - ask for justice. You could also make it clear you won't travel with such treacherous dogs, but personally I'd go for the broken bones thing.
Shard of Suzail 10-17-04, 01:34 PM	Well, first off, as a chaotic character, i would think that your monk class abilities immediately fail. Your character would be rendered, effectively, a low grade fighter for a while. Though elves can be lawful, i dont see why being an elf would make you chaotic. Anyway, sound like your group hates you. For the party to loot you while you are still alive, well, i have never heard of such a thing. Any good monk would refuse to adventure with such disloyal colleagues. If you stick with them, then you are being foolish in the extreme. As to the gm, well, at your level it will sometimes happen that a strange spell will be pulled out to slap you down. After all, if you are that powerful, then you should be wiping out entire armies, villainous liches and so on, which you probably are. I dont feel that many setting can handle a post epic party on ground level. You are effectively a walking god among other gods and that means you can do whatever you like, which doesnt always make a good game. Still, get away from that party, they are bad news and they clearly dislike your character, perhaps for the same reason the gm is troubled by it. The time may well have come for your characters to retire.
TheBlackLotus 10-17-04, 05:50 PM	When I was made to pretty much tear all my tendons, snap my joints, ect ect,.... When my party finally stopped looting me and I was able to move again, I used a Heal Spell upon myself,.... the Dm said that it would still take me 4 days to be able to not have -12 to pretty much everything. I have an item that allows me to regenereate,.... wouldnt help. Heal, regenerate, monk lay on hands,... very high heal check,.... I cant take away my minus's. Power word charm? With power word Kill,.. which is pretty much what id imagine the highest power word to be,.. you need to have less then 200 hitpoints for it to kill you. And thats the highest power word spell in the phb,.. and thats a lvl 9 spell. So even if the mob COULD cast epic spells, a lvl 10 power word spell would what,.. up it another 100 hp's? t0 300? They would need one to affect over 300 hitpoints ot have effected me at my hp level at that point of 314. And power word charm? What do you say,.. "CHARM!!" or "OBEY!!!" thats only one word? it doesnt say obey ME, or anything like that. Just sucks
Callista 10-17-04, 06:22 PM	Okay, for one, if I were your DM I would seriously question the players of the characters who just looted you. Though stealing is a chaotic act, stealing from a comrade while he's severely injured and probably in pain (which you have the power to alleviate) isn't just chaotic, it's evil. Anyone with a "G" in their alignment should now be at "N" unless he's been extremely Good in the past... and if that's so, I would ask the player why the heck he was having his character act so atypically. That said, your character has just been betrayed by his comrades. Being LG, and having supposed friends do something which is essentially CE to you, is really going to make him wonder whether they were friends in the first place. As well as being Good, LG characters tend to believe in order and honor. Your character, being a monk, is probably going to emphasize that "order and honor" (I am assuming here; some don't) when making his decisions. So basically what your character's companions have just done is to betray everything he believes in. This sort of thing can be a big turning point for anyone. Your character may feel completely disillusioned when it comes to honor, now that he has seen that those he felt he could trust did something so completely dishonorable to him. He'll feel like it's really not worth it to follow the laws (or his own personal code) if it means things like this will just happen to him. So he may decide to take things into his own hands (a Chaotic act) and enact some vigilante justice on his companions--really, who else could do so, with such powerful companions as he has? The change to elf (which would not normally affect his alignment) and the natural mildly chaotic tendencies of elves would reinforce this, but not enforce it. You don't have to become an elf to do something chaotic; frankly, with something like this being done to the character, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to even the most disciplined monk. Snapping and laying the smack down on your traitorous "friends" seems quite a logical thing for someone in this situation to do. Remember, too, that you probably wouldn't end up changing completely to Chaotic--drastic alignment changes are rare. NG is more likely. A monk, however, is not a Paladin. Committing a single chaotic act need not make him automatically change alignment and lose his powers the way committing a C or E act would for a paladin. Whether your character changes alignments depends on what you do and what your DM rules. Also: Remember that once you become non-Lawful, you will lose your monk's powers. What your character committed in the grip of anger and disappointment, he may eventually repent of (and once again regain his lawful alignment). This, once again, gives you obvious role-playing opportunities. Considering that you're level 22, and your companions are probably about the same level, your character, as LG, may (depending on his personality) feel responsibility either towards the world in general (to protect them from his extremely powerful, and possibly evil friends--they did, after all, commit a very evil act; and the Monk does not know what they have been thinking all along) or perhaps towards his friends (he may feel a need to keep them from straying any farther along the path they've started on). Being so powerful, he may know there are few people who can stop his friends and take it upon himself to enforce decent behavior. Alternatively, he may want to wash his hands of them and continue to adventure on his own (a good idea if it fits the character and he's annoying people OOC and you don't mind having him ride off into the sunset), deciding that he doesn't want to spend time with people who betray him.
Eldermount 10-18-04, 10:44 AM	Just to interject.... The one who took the belt is evil. The monk may not be aware of it, but TheBlackLotus is fully aware of the situation. And in fact, the character before he turned evil, quite often looted the bodies of other characters. (Remember Daniel, Mace was Scott's character, not mine.)
CzarGarrett 10-18-04, 11:59 AM	I think a major problem here is that 1. The DM is a douche. He seemingly made a spell, spontaenously, just to bring you down. It is also seemingly quite broken. And 2. The other players are dirtbags. I suggest that you carefully and systematically kill them all, and take back your stuff. Vengence is not necessarily chaotic, especially for something as insane as this. Hell, restoring your honor here might even not be evil considering the circumstances. If the players do something like that ever again, I suggest leaving. Players who loot you while you're still alive and screw you over to get stuff back are not good players.
markhaus 10-18-04, 12:10 PM	Sounds like the DM and players joined together to do this to you. awful convenient that they steal all your stuff right after the DM power word charms you. Im betting the DM thought you were more powerful then the other players (or they complained to the DM) and decided to bring you down to their level while elevating them. This was a rotten thing to do, but if it is the case there is something about your character that is bothering your fellow gamers. Tell the elven queen what is going on and retire. (if you want you can steal the stuff first). Make a new character that is less powerful but just as fun. Or keep roleplaying and try your best to forget it. If you get all your stuff back this will just happen again.
kliate 10-18-04, 01:01 PM	Charmed characters don't perform obviously self-destructive (or self-terminating) actions :)
Fanatic-Templar 10-18-04, 01:13 PM	That's just plain horrible. What kind of lv22 party uses a Heal check anyway? When I was level7, we were already past that! If I were you, I'd find another group to game with. I would have expected whoever stole the first item to be beaten down by the other players, but that they actually follow his example... astounding. I've seen bad DMs and bad players before, but always in the way of incompetent, never this plainly cruel.
MadApplejack 10-18-04, 02:51 PM	Firstly-- On being "power-word: charmed" into maiming yourself and having your teammates steal all your stuff and refuse to help you: :uh-huh: On to your question. Elves have a cultural tendency towards chaos, but they aren't inherently chaotic the way a demon or slaad is. Many Elves are lawful, perhaps most especially those that hold positions of authority. Since changing you into an Elf wouldn't change your mental state (at least, not immediately), you should still be the same alignment you were before. As far as addressing your former teammates, remember that the desire for vengeance is evil. That's why lawful good people call it "justice." :schemes:
roll8dn 10-18-04, 03:32 PM	Now, mind you, I am not in your situation. I do not know the people you are playing with, and I have no idea (other than your earlier statement) as to why they would do such a thing. That being said... A.)Your DM screwed you. Personally, I have a problem with DMs who go out of their way to pick on a particualr character after they have okayed the basic concept for play in their game. I would definetly, in the strongest terms possible (up to and including leaving the game) let him/her know that I did not appreciate the actions in the previous game session and would appreciate not seeing a repeat. B.)Your teammates screwed you. I have a problem with this, as well. Assuming that it was not an evil game (as you indicated it was not), I would be deeply troubled by the characters' actions. I would first indicate this to the players and ask why, exactly, they did this. If I did not find the reason sufficient (by my own lights, seeing as that is all that I have to go on in a judgement situation), I would let them know that I was not pleased, at all. If that did not change things, I would mark a new alignment on my character sheet: LN or even LE; for, the next few game sessions would be set up looking for a way to find vengeance upon the characters who had screwed me over. Remember, vengeance is not inherently Chaotic; it can be Lawful, as long as you go about it methodolically, sticking to your original plan. Now, as to you changing to Chaotic alignment because your species is changing to Elf...well, that is a crock. Elves are not inherently Chaotic; it is a cultural drift (the same way that most Dwarves are Lawful). Just because your biology changes (unless you become a specific species, like Formain or Slaad) your alignment doesn't. My advice to you is this: sit down and talk things over with your gaming group. If that does not arrive at a satisfactory conclusion, you can either be petty or not. If you want to be petty, kill all of the other players' characters in their sleep (or some other plan that duplicates the effects) and thumb your nose at the players as you leave the group. If you don't, let your group know that this will be your final session with them, let them know why (calmly and without rancor), and find a new gaming group to play with. Just my two coppers.
Long time gamer 10-18-04, 04:24 PM	I used to be the DM for this group a looong time ago, on rare occasion I'll make a cameo but I do keep in touch with what's going on with the game through their primary DM and this is what I know. 1.) Lotus, the Monk doesn't know it, but don't you remember that two of the characters you are with are evil? One is an evil being who escape Demi plane of Ravenloft and inhabit bodies to further his masters deeds? Remember who used to Play "Mace" and who plays it now? The other has a Dagger of incredible power and ego, and he lost the battle of wills and now is a greedy thief, don't you think that after all this time your "friend" was adventuring with you he might have known what your best stuff is? Knowledge that would get passed to the entity of the Dagger? 2.) The "guest" DM who gamed you guys that night was a great 2.0 DM but has little experience with 3.5. Also, you, he and especially your brother have a history. You know what I’m talking about. 3.) Why didn’t you talk to your primary DM first about your concerns before you air your dirty laundry on a public board? Maybe you two could have come up with something, now what’s most likely going to happen is the players of your group are going to see “Your opinion” on this night and might not be too terribly happy seeing the not so nice comments being made about them that you inspired. As I read in these posts, you're playing gods now and maybe it's time to retire your character. I did with my 24th level Rogue that I played for some 10 years, maybe you should too. P.S. What's more important to you? the character in your game or the friends you've known for some 8+ years that you might have just ****** off because they played in character?
fatal error 10-18-04, 05:59 PM	Well, the monk now knows they are evil, so it's time for some justice! Sneak in, and (if you can do this) coup de grace them with non-lethal damage, then when they are knocked out steal their gear. Oh, and if you don't mind losing the good alignment try ripping out al THEIR tendons and see how they like it when you tell them "no healing potions for YOU".
TheBlackLotus 10-18-04, 08:08 PM	I understand that "the general" is a secretely evil charecter. However,.. Last adventure, BaGua was killed, dead, -40 something hitpoints, and had powerful magic items on himself as well. Blink, (the rogue'ish elf charecter) made no attempts whatsoever to try to loot his body, nobody in the party even considered it. When he died, and we defeated the monster, we carried the remains of a 500lb dead half ogre that was in a bloody tatter of peices, through a gate,.. and then got him a reserrection. Wuyi (my monk) dies,.. and suddenly he is pounced upon by the rogue. And what is the one item that "Blink" took? The same ring, that when he was DM'ing the city of the spider queen module,.. made me immune to all of the nasty negative energy effects of all of the big bad evil things. That,.. was the one item that his charecter took from my body as I laid there helpless. Coincidence? There were 4 players other then me at the table,... all but 1 are our other DM's. The only person that did not rush over to loot equipment off of my body, even after everyone knew that I was still alive,.. was the single non DM player at the table, other then myself. The rogue, an elf,.. charged to go on this mission as well, that could very well save the entire elven race that still inhabits faerun, and of a noble elven house,... started to help loot, and strip the body of the only elven protector charged by the queen of evermeet herself, and the "elven child of phophecy", that is with the party,.. Blinks alignment is chaotic good. Where,.. in that does it do anything but hurt his family, hurt his civilization, ruin his reputation among the elves, the queen, the child, the other protectors,.. of course there will be no social backlash by the elves to his charecter,.... as "its only blink". How would the queen, and the ruling council of evereska look upon his family, him, and the others in the party for what they were doing, knowing that one of the protectors of Corollans Chosen,.... was stripped and looted, by an elf? And refused to give back the magical ring that was looted from my still living finger, and helped the others strip me of other magic items and equipment. Perhaps the desire to depower my charecter, that I have already depowered, took precedence over playing in charecter, or the fate of the elven race. Call me silly. Also, the elf rogue charecter, has a dagger with an uber ego, and they are battling for who will have control of who, though they are at a stalemate. The dagger hasnt changed him. When there is a question on wether or not the charecter would do something accordign to the daggers ego, which is always for teh glory of the elves,.. there is an opposed roll. The ego of the dagger is of a space elf, that wants to protect the elven empire and kingdom above all else. There was no roll, or opposed roll of any kind. As soon as that charecter started checking out what equipment I had on that could be taken, is when the others started, they made no play at looting me until the elf started.
novus 10-18-04, 10:47 PM	I know that I will incur some wrath from everyone who has posted ahead of me, but I have to air my thoughts. I have been a DM for about 14 yrs..I have played and DM'd in 2nd,3rd, and 3.5. I don't know any of the people involved, nor do I agree with what they did. My perspective is from a DM trying to teach a lesson on character mortality. You are talking about a near unstoppable force in the form of a lvl 22 monk. I had a pc who thought his lvl 19 paladin was virtually invincible just because he had a +5 holy avenger. The problem I had was that he got too arrogant. Not to mention he killed virtually all the monsters I could muster. I ended up bringing an old favorite to the table. THE Tarasque. It killed him and he cried foul play. I told him that he deserved it. He cried some more and finally I caved in and brought him back to life. The lesson is simple you are never invincible. :looloo: Now, not saying you were like this, but it might be likely. Think about the DM's point of view as well. I am not excusing what they did. I just offer another look that everyone else didn't present. Worst case scenario, either quit playing with them or lay low and get your revenge. Remember that Lawful Good is in your character's eyes not your interpretation of the discription given to you in the Player's Handbook. Also all alignments are capable of revenge. I feel bad for you just the same!
Eldermount 10-18-04, 11:39 PM	Well Lotus, you wished to continue this here so... A) I won't swear to it, but I'm fairly certain that Blink is Chaotic Neutral. As for him looting you, a few of my characters have had items stolen by Blink. The two things (besides daggers) that Blink tends to have a weakness for are rings and wands. Nothing that he did was out of character for how this character has ALWAYS been played. He saw a ring he wanted, he took it. B) It's a good thing that he didn't have the ego battle with the dagger. Yes, the dagger wants the elves protected. It also doesn't like the idea of a non-elf being one of the Baralesti. If the dagger had won an ego battle against Blink, Wuyi would probably have had his throat slit. C) Yeah, I didn't loot BaGua's body last time. Of course, I didn't play last time either. The reason that I have been chosen to run Mace when I'm there is because I can be Machiavellian in my evil manipulations. I took magic from you because you are probably one of the biggest threats to Strahd. When I got the vow from you, that made you more useful to keep alive. D) If I had wanted to depower Wuyi, I would have done it in the Dragonfist adventure that you begged me to run. I would have made the dragon make you take a vow of poverty and give up your magic items. If I had wanted to depower you, I definitely wouldn't have given you another magic item. E) You've seen Ron play Shao for how many years now? You've heard Steve and I comment how Shao is Chaotic Neutral with Evil tendencies, and that he only cares about a few close friends. The one other time that Wuyi dealt with Shao, Wuyi ended up forsaking his vow of chastity when Shao took him to a brothel. And you're surprised that Shao doesn't show enough respect for Wuyi to not loot him?
strontium 10-19-04, 12:38 AM	Seperating out of game knowledge from what your character actually knows, Did your character believe your travelling mates were good, or at least trustworthy? Cause lets face it, they just robbed and blackmailed you. You have to just play that. What would you have done if they were npc's that did that? From what you described, i would have assumed that you would have reported them to the elven queen and had them brought in for questioning (if you couldnt bring them in yourself) They are either evil, and are a real threat to your mission, or have started acting out of character and may be under the influence of something evil, and therefore need help. If your character cares for them he would try and find out why they changed, if your character doesnt't care for them or knew they were evil, then he would want justice. As for the dm's fudge job, it happens from time to time. I've seen it done and even had to do it myself once or twice. When you have to do stuff on the fly cause the players just toasted 4 days of preperation with one unexpected act, it can be tricky. Just hang in there, and remember, there's almost always more happening behind the scenes that wat you see (unless you read the module) and dm's have been known to make stuff up to play with characters minds. take it at face value. Point out the possible flaws to the dm, then accept his ruling. That's what I think :-) Never let what happens in game affect you out of game. One of the people i play with as the nicest friendliest girl you would ever meet, and plays a lot of paladain characters. One day she took a True neutral ninja character, and we were so shocked at ho totally ruthless and neutral she played her character. It was the best roleplaying we ever saw, and totally unexpected. At the end of the day, it's an imaginary character on a piece of paper, your friends are real. Friends are harder to get, even the imaginary ones. Good luck.
amethal 10-19-04, 07:26 AM	Were the other players acting in character or not? Eldermount thinks they were. As you are (understandably) upset, I would say this justifies an out of character discussion as to what their motiviations were, to set your mind at rest. If you are then satisfied the other players were acting in character, then your response needs to be in character as well. You are the best person to judge what is in character, but my own opinion is a lawful monk would not take kindly to being betrayed by his comrades and having his items stolen - if that's the way you see it. In many cultures, any oath made under duress is void. Why can't your monk feel the same way? Decide what constitutes justice in you opinion, and work out a plan for the best way to achieve it - for instance, you suggested lodging a complaint with the Elven queen, which seems a perfect lawful solution to me. However, if you think the players, rather than the characters, ganged up on you, then this is an out of game problem that you need to solve out of game. It might involve an apology, an explanation, or you and/or your character leaving the group, but it isn't worth risking friendships for.
markhaus 10-19-04, 08:28 AM	dont tell them you are not bound to the oath, write it on a piece of paper along with the thread it was in and who suggested it, then when they ask you for something, screw them over: When the DM complains (and i would bet he will) show the piece of paper detailing why you are not bound to the oath. Amethal said: In many cultures, any oath made under duress is void. Why can't your monk feel the same way? genius, pure genius.
Long time gamer 10-19-04, 11:51 AM	You don’t have to worry anymore Lotus, Your primary DM (the one you should have talked to about your concerns) became aware of the situation. (Your board post.) He was beginning to suffer from DM burn out and the Christmas holiday season makes it tough on him to make time to game due to his job so he is taking a break from gaming until January. This will give you more than enough time to hash out you concerns with him and your friends before you game again. I am almost embarrassed for you and your group that this ended up on the WotC boards instead of in person with your friends. Ah the joys of being a DM, I’m glad that I am in Semi retirement…..
TheBlackLotus 10-23-04, 06:58 PM	Respectfully submitted,.. there is nothing to hash out really. Im done gaming, and after the many years of doing it with all of you, I have many many wonderful memories of epic adventures that I will always cherish and be thankful for. I have no ill will towards our primary DM, as out of charecter I always have, and still do consider him one of my best friends. I in no way am upset or feel slighted by a single bit of the gaming experience from that night of which HE was in control of when he was in charge of the 2nd half of the adventure, as it was consistant as always, and as normal for him, very well and fairly DM'ed. I have no ill will towards him in the least, never have, and never will. And I still look foward to being able to play games online with the few of you that I do play online games with. However, the actual gaming part of our friendships is over for me. Thank you for all of the memories of the adventures that I walked away with, but the desire for any further ones are out of my heart. I wish you all well, and good luck with the campaigns that are planned. I look forward to killing chaos marines and space orcs with you and Paladin when able still online "long time gamer", as though the gaming portion of our friendships are over, I look forward to continuing the non d&d aspects of it. And if he doesnt check this, please be sure to give himt he jist of it when next you speak to him. -Edit- Also steve, randy, bear in mind how this looks to me as a player. John, while DM'ing the city of the spider queen module, was given many many many headaches and was repeatedly annoyed because none of the death magic effects or really bad necromancy effects of the modules big bad npc's, would harm my monk, which was one of the main reasons that we walked through the entire thing with no real trouble until the end. Because the bad guys couldnt harm the monk due to his ring of deathward. THe last gaming session that I had with the group, where the game that caused this post happened at,.. our guest DM, who had not DM'ed or played alongside my monk in nearly 3 years so was unaware of what he could do, was slightly vocal at the table of how there was going to be an epic level martial artist demon, that I would have to be fighting. I faced the demon, and was spanking it big time with virtually no scratches at all. It could not hit me, and all of its gigantic snake attacks (an epic level demon medusa with giant snakes on its head), never got their extra bonus's to attack from flanking me, because of my magical cloak that would not allow me to be flanked unless it was by a 26th level rogue,... which the epic demon medusa martial artist,.... was not. So, because his plan of taking away my dexterity due to being flanked wouldnt work, the creature, after a few rounds of the guest dm being very frustrated with the turn out of the combat, suddenly started having the creature toss out a 10th level spell "power word charm??" (what 1, single word, would make that "power word charm work?,.. charm? no. "Obey"? no,..) = meta-gamed bbeg. And it was made into a power word spell, knowing htat I would not then be allowed a saving throw. But,.. spell resistance applies. So, the 45 HD creature, that is suddenly an epic level spellcaster with a spell that makes no sense, is said to have a +45 to its roll to bypass my SR? Errr,.. so this creature is NOW has 45 levels of caster? Where did its err,... martial arts class levels go? When I am finally forced to nearly kill myself while Im charmed, and am not allowed a saving throw, when I am THEN made to kill my groupmate, who is a close friend, and destroy my body to the point that I would not be able to function for 4 days,... which,... is something I would normally do?? (what ever happened to the rules on what a charecter could be forced to do while under the effects of a charm spell, especially a ludicrous one) , HIS charecter that he is playing, while he is DM'ing.... walks over to my prone body, while Im alive, and strips only ONE magic item from me,... guess which one it was,..... Yup,.. the cloak that just gave him so much trouble against me as a DM. And what was the one item that johns charecter took from me while I was on the ground helpless? Yup,.... the one ring that gave him so much trouble while he himself was DM'ing the COTSQ module. See how that could kind of make a player get upset and think that dm's are trying to gang up on him to depower his charecter, by using their charecters to loot from his body,.. the single magic items (ring of deathward, and my cloak) that were such a trouble for both of them while they were DM'ing? Am I the only one in the group that can understand how that could look bad to a player? Its seeming that way. Not that it matters anymore. But,.. I dont think anybody that was at that table, with the exception of maybe "Paladin1" has even stopped to consider how it would appear from my side, and wonder why it would upset me?
indrid 10-23-04, 11:17 PM	This is sad, really sad. These people you call "friends" are so petty and jealous that they do this to a roleplaying game character? It speaks volumes about their character (or lack there of) and their maturity (or lack there of) and do not deserve to be called "friend". Dump them all. The DM's, the players, all of the sorry bastards. You don't need to be disrespected like this for ANYTHING. No argument about how "my ingame character is this way or that way" can justify treating someone like that. I would rather quit and have nowhere to play than put up with that. And to the last sorry sack of garbage that said how he 's sorry to see the roleplaying aspect of the friendship end, the above especially applies to you.
Long time gamer 10-25-04, 10:57 AM	Daniel-san, I sooo wish you could have talked to JC and John before you did this. JC acknowledge that there were some problems and was going to sit down and work with you on this. He also talked to John and according to him, John had some pretty good reasons for his character to act this way. You should have talked to them. We all choose our own path. This is my opinion, no one elses. Remember what levels your playing, basically your character was like the "Tick", Ni-Invulnerable. Few magics worked against you,(Great Will save, Great Ref save.) you could boost your AC beyond 60 while fighting defensively and you could dish out damage past 200 in a single hit. To make the game at all challenging to you a DM is going to have "wing-it" on some things to even give you a challenge and not all of it will be kosher. (Another reason I retired my high level.) You should have retired Wu-Yi a long time ago but you and sometimes your brother insisted on playing high to epic level characters. (Remember me always pushing for low levels?) To me, when they brought back the monk from 1st edition, they should have also brought back his magic item limitation. 2 weapons and 4 misc. that's all. Here are some hard questions for you Daniel-san, A Monk who is basically sworn to little material wealth, how many medium magic items did he have? How many major? Is your character his magic items (Like Scott's characters are) or his abilities? Since late 2.0E I've created my characters to function well without magic items. His feats and skills would get him through and his magic equipment was just "gravy." That way if I lost everything, (and in some cases, I did.) I was still an effective character. Your Monk was, and still is an effective character without a single magic item at that level. My opinion is this, retire Wu-Yi and make a new character. Don't play high level or epics anymore. The Gods vs. Gods thing that a DM would have to do just to make the game challenging will also go bad against the character eventually. Make your character less magic item dependent. No one will be jealous, ****** or "out to get you?" as you believe they are if you don't create characters that can take on the gods themselves. One on one, Wu-Yi could have done just that. It's your decision to quit if you want, but you have 2 months to think about it since JC is on his holiday hiatus until January. Know this, it's going to be real tough to get past this "outburst" to online game with everyone because you basically diss your entire group of friends (save me,) in your very public post here on what you believe happened. I'm the neutral here and I got the other side of the story Daniel-san. All is not as you believe it was.
Eldermount 10-25-04, 10:58 AM	Fine Daniel. Continue to play the martyr. Apparently that makes you feel better since you do it at least once a year, complaining about how we all pick on you and how you never do anything to deserve it. Though, if you really believe that, then I suggest you get some professional counseling because you've got a very warped sense of reality. Otherwise, you seem to have your supporters here. Of course, they support you based off of your rather imbalanced view of the situation. If they gamed with you as long as we have, had to deal with as many of your tantrums as we have, and have had to listen to as many twistings of reality as we have, then I'm sure they'd be much less inclined to believe your recounting of the events. Can you honestly say that you've never seen Jon play Blink as being so greedy before? Can you honestly say that you've never seen Ron DM so fast and loose with the rules to the party's detriment before? Can you honestly say that Ron doesn't play Shao as an evil character? If you can, then you obviously haven't been paying attention. If you can't but still have the audacity to say that this was all done to pick on you, then I again suggest some professional counseling. Because none of us take a game so seriously as to go to such extremes for retribution. None of us other than you, apparently. Ron's assessment is right. You treat this game as if it were a weekly poker game where you are losing your money. It's not that serious. Quit treating it as such.
Long time gamer 10-25-04, 11:02 AM	See what I mean, it's going to be real hard for your group to get past your post. What you think happened and what they think happened are two very different perceptions. Do you honestly think that the 5 players of your group was out to get you? If so then I'm at a loss at this way of thinking.
Zagan 10-25-04, 11:40 AM	Roleplaying issue: Slit their throats that is what i would do , even a lawful character takes vengance sometimes - do your best Friend issue: Friends are more importan than Games remember that. Talk to your friend first than ranting on public boards about misshaps ok ?! The power word charm thing might have been a little unfair but now you wont change it. I would try to make the best out of this situation your a 22 lvl Monk arent you ? Kick ther b..t and take back whats yours . Im used to blackmailing i'm a Dm afterall but dont take it personaly fight for your rights. Roleplay.
Mikal 10-25-04, 12:06 PM	Eh, IC sounds like a good time to throw away the elf friend ring, go Lawful Evil, and start killing your former 'companions' in their sleep. OOC, I'd say that was a pretty crappy thing to do to the character. I mean really, a DM who breaks the rules fragrantly just because his monster was getting beat, then taking advantage of it with a DMPC? Yeah, that's the mark of a good DM. Then of course, we have the whining from the other players saying that the gods vs. gods stuff or whatever. Big whoop. He survived to GET those items yes? Items ALLOWED by the DM? Sure looks that way to me. Get off your high horse, and, if you don't want a super powered monk, don't give him so many items that make him that way. And as for the post about 'are you your character or your magic items?'... that has to be one of the most sanctimonious pieces of CRAP I have ever experienced. Seriously. DnD 3rd edition isn't 2nd, or 1st. Unless he was a Vow of Poverty monk/kensai, he would NEED those items if he was planning on... I dunno, SURVIVING? Especially against a so-called 45th level epic creature, who should have been able to smash the monk without resorting to cheap trickery on the DM's part. So to the original poster, I say kudos, for building a strong enough character that a cheap and crappy DM had to cheat to take you out, and a :nonono: to the members of his group who took advantage of it.
Long time gamer 10-25-04, 12:37 PM	To Mikal, You're not part of this gaming group so you don't know all the facts here, you don't know one thing about what has transpire in the past so before you go off of me maybe you should have tried being a bit more diplomatic here. I've been there and all of the above group are my personal friends. How old are you and how long have you played? Your comments ring of a newbie still in the munchkin stage. Role playing a monk, a character who should be almost poverty stickened shouldn't have, want or purchase powerful magic items if it mask his powers of his fist and feet and mind in my opinion. Also, this power character played "un monk-ish" like in many ways but so to not insult the player who posted it, I wont post it. I know this is your opinion on this but you could have been a bit less of a jerk about it, but since you weren't.... I am sure glad I'm not in your game because the way you talk we'd be all following the yellow brick road to Munchkin land.
markhaus 10-25-04, 12:46 PM	i kind of expected the players or DM to be a little remorseful... whenever i get frustrated w/ a powerful character and cheat a lil to remove some power i always feel bad afterward... if they cant get past this (you too) then you and your friends need more heart. (to err is human, to forgive, divine) Forgive them, assume they were jealous jerks angry at the power your character wields and be the better person. P.S. The players/DMs that post against the thread starter really havent made their case well.. this may be b/c they dont like to do things on the boards. If such is the case they have no right to get angry towards what people think of them. Either dont care what people think, or explain why they are wrong to think this way.
Mikal 10-25-04, 01:37 PM	To Mikal,*snip* How old are you and how long have you played? Your comments ring of a newbie still in the munchkin stage. Role playing a monk, a character who should be almost poverty stickened shouldn't have, want or purchase powerful magic items if it mask his powers of his fist and feet and mind in my opinion. *snip* I am sure glad I'm not in your game because the way you talk we'd be all following the yellow brick road to Munchkin land. Actually, I've been playing since the late 80's, and have knowledge of several systems, have published articles in roleplaying magazines, and even won awards for my roleplaying concepts, most recently at last year's UnCon. And it seems that the only person here who is adhering to sterotypes is you. Why must a monk be almost poverty stricken? Because that's how they were historically? Or because you watched too many old Kung Fu episodes with David Carridine? You have no right to tell someone else how to roleplay their character. He's a monk who has magic. Big deal. I guess in your world view all paladins should be plate mail wearing lance wielding goblin baby killers as well? And saying I'm a munchkin because I feel a player got hosed? Yeah, you sure got me there. I bow down before your superior arguement. :thumbsdow
Eldermount 10-25-04, 02:03 PM	Markhaus, True, I don't really care what you think. All of my posts were directed directly at TheBlackLotus/Daniel. He knows the facts, no matter how much he distorts them here. I've gamed with him for the past 10 years, and have had to deal with these temper tantrums several times. But at least he's always done it within our group before, and always ended up apologizing before. Because all of his tantrums are without merit. Now that he knows he won't get sympathy from our group anymore because he has been pushing the limits of our patience with his childish whining, he brought his tantrum to a public forum. Note that after my first response to him, he backed down about complaining how the character I was playing screwed him out of his belt. He knew that I was playing a character that was secretly evil, and yet in his first post he passes this character off as being part of a "band of heroes." True, and yet it's a twisting of facts. Something that he always does, and constantly has to be called on. If I were to take the time to explain all the things that Daniel has done and how he misrepresents the facts just so he can feel sorry for himself, it would take several posts and several hours for me to write up those posts. I don't feel inclined to do that for people who are probably never going to game with me or with Daniel. And even if I did, people are going to make judgements based on what they choose to believe are the facts, even though the only ones who know went on for sure are the ones who were there. So why should I waste my time?
Mikal 10-25-04, 02:15 PM	And even if I did, people are going to make judgements based on what they choose to believe are the facts, even though the only ones who know went on for sure are the ones who were there. So why should I waste my time? Because you decided to post on here in the first place, thus naming names rather then letting him vent somewhat anonymously?
Eldermount 10-25-04, 02:25 PM	That's a rather asinine statement, Mikal. Do you know the last names of Ron, Steve, Daniel, or myself? Heck, do you know my first name? If you can't answer that, then the people involved are still anonymous to you, they just have proper names instead of usernames or character names associated with them. You're gonna have to try better than that. :rolleyes:
Mikal 10-25-04, 02:30 PM	That's a rather asinine statement, Mikal. Do you know the last names of Ron, Steve, Daniel, or myself? Heck, do you know my first name? If you can't answer that, then the people involved are still anonymous to you, they just have proper names instead of usernames or character names associated with them. You're gonna have to try better than that. :rolleyes: Actually I was speaking in a more general tone, saying we had no idea whatsoever as to what type of people he was playing with. Now we do, and to be honest the picture you paint of yourself while on here isn't a very flattering one. ETA: Plus the general fact that you say you don't care about what anyone on here thinks of the games you play or run or whichever, yet you continue to try and defend your viewpoints and/or respond to posts rather then walking away, like a person who truly doesn't care would do.
Eldermount 10-25-04, 02:38 PM	Again, you aren't gaming with me, so what do I care what you think about me? As I've said, Daniel knows the truth, and knows that he hasn't portrayed things truthfully. You decided to make judgements even though you are aware that you weren't sitting there and so don't know what actually happened. You seem predisposed to wanting to believe Daniel, so go ahead. Have fun with it. Make Daniel your cause for the week. Make petitions calling for revoking of our books for what a mean, nasty group we are to poor Daniel. Big whoop. It doesn't change the truth. And Daniel is the one who has to deal with misrepresenting the truth. Not you or anyone else who's not part of our group. Edit:ETA: Plus the general fact that you say you don't care about what anyone on here thinks of the games you play or run or whichever, yet you continue to try and defend your viewpoints and/or respond to posts rather then walking away, like a person who truly doesn't care would do.I responded. I didn't "defend my viewpoints" because I don't need to.. I'm telling you to go ahead and make judgements. You're going to anyways. If I don't respond, you're going to assume that you were right. If I do respond, you're going to assume that you're right. But, my responses are to show others what a mook you are, wanting to butt your nose in and make judgements on something that doesn't concern you. Must make you feel superior.
Shard of Suzail 10-25-04, 02:45 PM	Well, it would seem that my earlier post was largely correct. They do hate him, rightly or wrongly. I dont mind the gm slapping him with made up spells, thats just part of the game. It does sadden me, however, that there is clearly so much resentment of this character and its player. He may well cause problems or not fit in, but thats no reason for it to be dealt with in game. If people wanted the character retired, they should have insisted upon that, rather than ganging together to take it out. Though i would say this, if someone does take a character out like this, they damn well should finish the job and kill it, otherwise it causes a lot more resentment as we can see here. A crippled, itemless character is a much bigger source of pain for a player than a dead one. I think the thing that saddens me the most is that this monk's supposed allies turned on him. I, as a gm, insist upon my players being heroic and on the same side. I`m happy for characters to fight against their flaws and have moments of indecision, but where characters are secretly working against the party, i always see groups suffering because of it. Playing to such a high level only to be betrayed in this way is a disheartening scenario. A gm of mine ran a game where the same thing happened and we finished the scenario at that point, on the grounds that "the group had failed the game". Each character went his own way and everyone started over, with the villainous character becoming the NPC bad guy of the next campaign. I cant stand games where i cannot trust the other characters. Characters should stand as one.
wdarkk 10-25-04, 02:54 PM	Dude, time to leave the group. Whoever's at fault, it's obvious you don't fit in. Too much OOC anger there.
Long time gamer 10-25-04, 03:29 PM	It seems Black Lotus mind has already been made so all of this is a mute point. Truthfully, all involved thought he gamed well and didn't have a clue he was angry/upset until this post. Also to be truthful, he has done this in the past but as written before, it was always handled in person. Not on a public board. This is a done deal, no one won here but there was one that lost more than others and that unfortunately was the poster. Mikal, you game your game, I'll game mine. I've been playing since the late 70's with 1st edition yet to me (My opinion mind you,) it seems if your character is a certain type you should try and role play them that way, you see if different. Fine, that's your opinion not mine nor any of the other players that have been in and out of my group for the last 25+ years. Black Lotus has been a member of the group for about 10 years and has decided to leave. He and one other are the only one I know that has ever left on there own accord of the over dozens of players we had. Heck, at one time we even had players waiting to get in because the group had too many members. During all that time only two have ever been ask to leave due to being too disruptive in the game and one (Lotus's brother,) was actually brought back in. (Though he'd on hiatus too because his super character decided to attack a BBEG all by himself and got owned so his out pouting as well.) After 25 years I'd say we had a pretty coehesive group and a great track record. Mistakes will happened but (As usual) Lotus didn't think before he acted and now he's quit. If someone posted stuff like this about you and your group and you knew it wasn't true? How would you react? It's done and I'm done. Defend him, insult us, do what you will. It's too bad he quit over his feeling being hurt ON A GAME because he thinks his friends weren't role playing correctly while all six others players say they were but that's his call. I'm done.
FunkyTrip 10-25-04, 04:10 PM	After reading the thread it looks like this is one of those typical DnD groups where people who would normally never be friends play together for years to satisfy their one big common demoninator: they love DnD. There's bound to be 1 or 2 who don't really fit in but are not thrown out of the group because well, they just are 'part' of the group now even when the majority of the group is annoyed by them. This causes game sessions always to be less fun than they could be. Eventually it always leads to situations like this. In my opinion, if you start a gaming group and there's some who don't really fit in, look further.
Mikal 10-25-04, 06:40 PM	It's done and I'm done. Defend him, insult us, do what you will. It's too bad he quit over his feeling being hurt ON A GAME because he thinks his friends weren't role playing correctly while all six others players say they were but that's his call. I'm done. Wait wait.. so it's ok for the other players to say they act in character when they steal from party members, but you think a monk who actually collects magic items and the like is so out of character that you all have to basically screw him over? Please, that's the act of a lame gamer. You can post all you like about how the other's were ok and he was crap, but so far it looks like he's the one who was wronged, not that he pulled a 'temper' tantrum.
indrid 10-25-04, 09:24 PM	Hey Eldermount and Long Time Gamer, what module did you guys find the Crown of Self Righteousness in? Its pointless to try to reason with these 2 "veteran" roleplayers. I've dealt with these kind of people before, most likely 38-48 yrs. old, physically depressing, major History Channel junkies, world war 1 and 2 enthusiasts, and so much ego it could choke an elephant. I would also bet that nearly every game they run is chocked full of bizzare sexual situations that they want to roleplay out to satisfy whatever urges he needs sated. What state are you people in so I make sure never to move there?
Eldermount 10-25-04, 10:42 PM	What state are you people in so I make sure never to move there? California. Thanks for staying away. :rolleyes:
Eldermount 10-25-04, 10:48 PM	Wait wait.. so it's ok for the other players to say they act in character when they steal from party members, but you think a monk who actually collects magic items and the like is so out of character that you all have to basically screw him over? Please, that's the act of a lame gamer. You can post all you like about how the other's were ok and he was crap, but so far it looks like he's the one who was wronged, not that he pulled a 'temper' tantrum. Just for the record, LTG was not part of the gaming session that night. Of course, you'd have realized that if you had actually paid attention to what was being posted, instead of make your assumptions as to what happened. :rolleyes:
Mikal 10-26-04, 08:33 AM	Just for the record, LTG was not part of the gaming session that night. Of course, you'd have realized that if you had actually paid attention to what was being posted, instead of make your assumptions as to what happened. :rolleyes: He may not have been part of it that night, but he is the regular dm from what I see, ergo he's the one who allowed the monk character to become that powerful, and yet condones the player for becoming that powerful due to the 'fact' that monk's shouldn't "seek material wealth" or some such elitist attitude. ETA: And the former post was actually aimed at the entire group who did this thing, not JUST LTG.
Eldermount 10-26-04, 10:23 AM	He may not have been part of it that night, but he is the regular dm from what I see, ergo he's the one who allowed the monk character to become that powerful, and yet condones the player for becoming that powerful due to the 'fact' that monk's shouldn't "seek material wealth" or some such elitist attitude. ETA: And the former post was actually aimed at the entire group who did this thing, not JUST LTG. Nope. Wrong again. If you'll take a look at post 22, LTG talks about being in semi-retirement from DMing. The primary DM is actually his nephew, and the one would have been most likely to be sympathetic to TheBlackLotus' plight. But, you can't help yourself from jumping to conclusions, can you? You keep proving that over and over.
markhaus 10-26-04, 11:46 AM	Sounds like an internal quarrel where everyone was wrong for different reasons and now they are complaining about the superpowered monk posting the problem on the boards. There was a conspiracy (real or imagined) against his character. He obviously has complained in the past and needed to vent off steam about the people he games with. Since nobody in his group listened he took it to the boards for validation. I see no problem w/ this. Venting on an "anonymous" board is a way to feel better about the situation. Everyone should apologize, the character should be retired and the gaming should continue. Doesnt matter who was wrong, its better to keep the friends you have. Or you could never game again and lose some friends who might have made a mistake when they dealt w/ a character who limited their fun. They arent bad friends (especially since we dont know exactly what happened)... well i assume they arent bad friends anyway
Mikal 10-26-04, 03:50 PM	Nope. Wrong again. If you'll take a look at post 22, LTG talks about being in semi-retirement from DMing. The primary DM is actually his nephew, and the one would have been most likely to be sympathetic to TheBlackLotus' plight. But, you can't help yourself from jumping to conclusions, can you? You keep proving that over and over. I may have made two mistakes on the actual dm, but the point remains the same-- you are ganging up on this guy for no actual reason. He didn't magically grow a cloak of displacement, or any of his other items. They were given to him by the dm. and the temporary dm screwed him over, making a cheap, broken spell out of thin air, which was then capitalized on by some of the others players. Then you go stating it's the players fault for several reasons, the most stupid being 'monks should never seek wealth'. But hey, nitpick all you want, you still haven't shown evidence to why you continue replying to something you've claimed you really don't care our opinions about, or why it was ok to screw someone else over beyond 'he deserved it'
Eldermount 10-26-04, 04:26 PM	I may have made two mistakes on the actual dm, but the point remains the same-- you are ganging up on this guy for no actual reason. He didn't magically grow a cloak of displacement, or any of his other items. They were given to him by the dm. And, of course, I never said his magic was a problem. Once again, you can't (or won't) differentiate what's being said, or even actually listen to what's said. (Buy a clue. Take some time to read this thread. Maybe you'll quit sounding like a complete fool.) and the temporary dm screwed him over, making a cheap, broken spell out of thin air, which was then capitalized on by some of the others players. Then you go stating it's the players fault for several reasons, the most stupid being 'monks should never seek wealth'. Again, never said that. Are you so incompetent that you can't differentiate between what I posted and what LTG posted? But hey, nitpick all you want, you still haven't shown evidence to why you continue replying to something you've claimed you really don't care our opinions about, or why it was ok to screw someone else over beyond 'he deserved it' Your inability to differentiate between simple differences isn't a nitpick, it's a huge flaw in your reasoning as to what went wrong since it's quite apparent that you can't differentiate fact from fiction. And I already stated, I'm responding because I enjoy showing to people what a mook you are still sticking your nose into something that isn't any of your concern. :rolleyes:
Mikal 10-26-04, 08:21 PM	wow... just... wow. You sure know how to twist what I say into a way that fits your reality, don't you? I said several times that when I was speaking of things such as the reasoning behind your all's screwing of the OP, I was speaking of all of you. Did I say you personally said such and such, and LTG said something else? No. Quit being obtuse. And I'm still waiting for you to actually talk about some of the REAL points here, rather then nit picking. Though I doubt you actually will. You can say you enjoy showing people I'm a 'mook', yet all you really do is show people you're an (something I'm not allowed to type here).
Eldermount 10-26-04, 09:06 PM	wow... just... wow. You sure know how to twist what I say into a way that fits your reality, don't you? I said several times that when I was speaking of things such as the reasoning behind your all's screwing of the OP, I was speaking of all of you. Did I say you personally said such and such, and LTG said something else? No. Quit being obtuse. And I'm still waiting for you to actually talk about some of the REAL points here, rather then nit picking. Though I doubt you actually will. You can say you enjoy showing people I'm a 'mook', yet all you really do is show people you're an (something I'm not allowed to type here). Ah, so basically you're saying that you're unwilling or unable to communicate using basic English concepts (you continue to say "you" when you mean "they" and use "he" when you mean "you"...) and I'm supposed to waste my time discerning your true intent. So, either you're too lazy to actually put an effort into communicating like a normal person, or you got caught in the fact that you have no clue as to what you're talking about and are trying desperately hard to make it look like you aren't an idiot. Either way - Mook! As for my explaining the situation, I guess you don't understand English when I said I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain things when I don't care what your opinion of me is. Why try? You've already made your decision, and can't even see that you don't have any of your "facts" right even when I point them out to you. I think the real question is, why do you care so much when you don't know any of us? Seems like you've got some serious issues to have to go to such extremes to keep trying to butt your way into a conflict that has nothing to do with you.
Mikal 10-26-04, 09:25 PM	Ah, so basically you're saying that you're unwilling or unable to communicate using basic English concepts (you continue to say "you" when you mean "they" and use "he" when you mean "you"...) and I'm supposed to waste my time discerning your true intent. So, either you're too lazy to actually put an effort into communicating like a normal person, or you got caught in the fact that you have no clue as to what you're talking about and are trying desperately hard to make it look like you aren't an idiot. Either way - Mook! As for my explaining the situation, I guess you don't understand English when I said I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain things when I don't care what your opinion of me is. Why try? You've already made your decision, and can't even see that you don't have any of your "facts" right even when I point them out to you. I think the real question is, why do you care so much when you don't know any of us? Seems like you've got some serious issues to have to go to such extremes to keep trying to butt your way into a conflict that has nothing to do with you. Oh, so now we're going to psychoanaylze each other eh? A great roleplayer AND a psycologist too. :rolleyes: The reason I posted on here is the same reason as anyone else (besides you, the person who supposedly doesn't care what anyone thinks), because the OP had an issue. When you come on here with an issue, people chime in. But hey, I guess a perfect guy like you doesn't need stuff like that, playing in such a harmonious group someone has to go behind your back to vent, and then you track him down and accuse him of throwing temper tantrums.
Eldermount 10-26-04, 10:49 PM	I see. You can't follow simple concepts. I didn't ask why you posted, I asked why you keep posting. TheBlackLotus said he's quitting. I've said that I have no reason to explain the events to you, especially when you've so clearly decided that you "know" everything that happened. So, why do you post over and over when the issue is moot? Let me spell it out for you again. You. Weren't. There. So all these snap judgements that you've made only scream out that you've got self esteem issues because you feel the need to pass judgement on people that you don't know over events that you never witnessed. But go ahead. Keep demonstrating you inability to follow that simple concept. :rolleyes:
TheBlackLotus 10-27-04, 06:53 PM	This post is with no malice or spite. I have absolutely every right to be upset about what happened at the table. The reason of "you know that blink (the rogue'ish elf charecter) acts like that" and "you know the general is really an evil charecter,..." are moot points. Those are meta gaming reasons for my charecter not to be upset at what happened. Completely, and totally metagamed. Do I, daniel, know that blink (the rogue) acts like that? Yes. Does Wuyi, my monk, know that? Nope, never. Wuyi, has not been played alongside blink really, since 2nd edition, when blink wasnt as extreme with his chaotic thieving tendencies as he is now. All that I knew of blink, is that he is an elf, has helped the party on the previous few missions, and was charged to help with this quest to save the elven people. Without meta-gaming, my charecter knows nothing about blink always looting things from friends. My monk had every right to be upset about it. The general.... the reason left of "you knew he was an evil charecter daniel" holds no merit, for the same reason as blink. Out of charecter, as the player, I know the complete history of the general and that he is evil. Though IN charecter,... he has been nothing but the HERO of cormyr, someone honorable, and that well,... is a hero. That is all that my monk has seen of him. My monk has seen no evil actions ever, has witnessed no evil dialogue ever, and has never even had to make a sense motive while in his presence. So to say that my monk has no reason to be upset that this hero, suddenly started looting an item off of my body while I was still conscious and watching, is a meta gaming reason, and if you think about it, my monk had every reason to be upset. The general, was not seen as an evil charecter IN game by my monk. I know that our "guest dm" screwed me over with that instant spell and instant monster change where suddenly all 45 of its hitdice went into its check to beat my spell resistance, and not allowing me a save or anything to NOT kill one of my party members, then incapacitate myself while charmed,... but there was nothing I could do about it then, or now, except live with it and grumble. Having the DM grow frustrated because he couldnt flank me, because of my cloak, and then have the single item that his charecter loots off of me, be that same cloak, looked bad imho. I started this thread, because I wanted peoples opinions on how to rollplay through the situation, as I was about to become an elf the next day, and was unsure of how to act towards my party, with my new elven outlook. I honestly had no idea how to rollplay that out, and was looking for feedback. The first few people posted, I started thinking about it, and decided that I needed to take a break from gaming for a while. I go to our own private boards, say I am taking a break, and leave a link here so that you guys can see why. Not knowing that it would suddenly turn into a viscous ****-storm of "your groups a bunch of jerks and should all die" posts. If you re-read my posts, nowhere in them have I made any personal attacks against any members of my gaming group. Nowhere have I said that I am demanding sympathy, so please email me pretty pictures of kleenex boxes and such. Elder, to say that I am pretty much a crybaby, that does something like this and has an outburst every year, is pretty crappy. I did not post this in our own private forums, because I would be getting the same type of replies from you there, as I do here, so I thought that here I might actually have people leave me feedback without immediatly discounting the problems that I saw, and the inconsistencies that occured that night. Did I ask for sympathy in my post? Nope. Did I ask for peoples feedback on how they felt I should rollplay it out, or what I should? Yes. Steve, I like, and respect the heck out of you as a person, but I want to make this very clear to you, as I guess that it was missed in my last post. I,.. in no way shape or form, have at any point in all of this, felt that JC did anything wrong during his DM'ing. He did a great job as always, and I had np with his portion of the adventure whatsoever. Elder, you accuse me of being a "martyr", and always trying to get attention from sympathy? (wtf). I stated in this thread, what happened to my charecter, WITHOUT metagaming the "you knew that charecter so and so was a bad guy" or "you knew that charecter so and so takes things from other charecters". I do, but my CHARECTER has never experienced those things before from either of them. For a single,... solitairy second, did you ever stop and try to see this from the angle that it could be percieved by from me at the table? I am asking for no sympathy, and I am asking for no attention. I was asking these people how I should rollplay the situation out, and stating that it made me upset as both a player, and a charecter. I did not state in this thread "this made me upset, could someone please hug me" or "I need to cuddle /whimper". The reason why usually once a year we have disagreements like this, is because you refuse to see anyside other then your own regarding what happens at a gaming table when I have an issue with something. What is wrong with me taking offense to how my charecter was treated that night by other party members? There is nothing wrong with it. But its as if you refuse to see that wether you agree or not, that I did have reason to feel that my charecter was singled out. You will argue a point to death once you have made up your mind, even if you refuse to try and see both sides of the matter. Wether you like it or not, me being upset about that particular night, is completely valid. And btw, of course ron is going to say that I think life is like a poker game, where I always feel that I am the loser. he was the Dm that night, and have you ever known him to admit to doing anything wrong in all the years you have known him? Steve, best wishes to you, as I always liked you, and always will continue to do so. Your a good person, and a good man. I feel the same way about JC, but even more so, as I have always considered him one of my best friends, and still do. Though elder, ever since my teen years, in kung fu, when you used to sit on me and mel everynight, give us wet-willies, and either make kissie faces at us, or grab our chests while you laughed, thinking it was funny,..... have you ever WONDERED why since I have grown up i still seem to dislike you from time to time? I wonder,... Steve, take care, and good luck to you in life. Please share those same wishes with JC, as I will miss his friendship more then anything lost from this gaming group, though he did nothing wrong, steve make sure that he knows I have never had a complaint about him, or anything he has ever done. Even if it was not a shared sentiment, for the past few years, I have considered him my best friend, though after this, I doubt he will wish that to continue. Elder, good luck in life to you as well. I ask you 2 not to return to this thread, as I will never again come to it, and if you do, all that will be left below will be continued flames by people we do not know. For those of you that helped me figure out how to rollplay out the situation, thank you, though I will not be using your advice, I appreciate it. Thank you all, and goodbye.