Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeres 05-23-07, 01:12 PM	Ok so I was faced with the problem as a level 17 character of destroying a cr18 creature by myself. I got the idea of turning into a gaceous form and going inside of the creatures body. The creature being a deathdrinker, I then used cone of cold to freeze its stomach acid and then polymorphed into a juvenile sapphire dragon. My dm allowed it and rewarded me for creative thinking, but I have recently been in the chat and they tell me that its against the rules, but no where in the rules can I find that this action is not a plausible or useable one. Help me out, I'm tired of arguing. Can I polymorph into something bigger than what I am inside and kill that thing??
_Jayne_Cobb_ 05-23-07, 01:56 PM	So how, exactly, did you kill the creature? What aspect of being a sapphire dragon allowed you to accomplish this? Are you saying that you changed into a larger creature and burst the thing open from the inside? If this is the case then no, you shouldn't be able to do this. Polymorph only lets you become large enough to fill the available space, no larger.
Optimized_Commoner 05-23-07, 02:13 PM	What you did was for the most part "outside the rules", some of it was specifically against the rules. However if your DM was fine with it, then that's mostly what matters. If your DM was here I'd be giving him some advice against allowing that in the future, but that's an entirely different matter.
Grand Theft Otto 05-23-07, 02:19 PM	Ok so I was faced with the problem as a level 17 character of destroying a cr18 creature by myself. I got the idea of turning into a gaceous form and going inside of the creatures body. Going inside another creature is dubious at best while in gaseous form. The creature being a deathdrinker, I then used cone of cold to freeze its stomach acid You cant cast spells while in gaseous form normally unless they are prepared with the still/silent and eschew materials metamagic feats. Second, I personally wouldnt let cone of cold freeze something's stomach acid, as the effect doesnt mention it. Freeezing sphere could arguably do such a task, as it specifically mentions freezing liquids - you'll note that spell is a level higher. However, frozen acid is still corrosive. and then polymorphed into a juvenile sapphire dragon. This has already been touched on. You cant change shape if you cant fit. My dm allowed it and rewarded me for creative thinking, but I have recently been in the chat and they tell me that its against the rules, but no where in the rules can I find that this action is not a plausible or useable one. They are likely right. You're falling for the "Aid Bud" fallacy, where absence of a rule stating that you CANT do something is taken to mean that you CAN. Help me out, I'm tired of arguing. Can I polymorph into something bigger than what I am inside and kill that thing?? By the rules, no. Second - would you want this tactic used against you?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 05-23-07, 04:27 PM	However, frozen acid is still corrosive. Are you sure of that? From what I know of chemistry, acid properties result from the presence of dissolved hydrogen ions. Frozen, these ions no longer are able to interact as needed - they don't have the energy for the chemical reactions we associate with the corrosive properties of acid. I could still be wrong, but I believe frozen acid is considerably less corrosive (what melts in contact with body heat, however . . . ) Not that this matters, as officially cold spells can't freeze liquids. But I'd support a DM who believes otherwise. Question: why freeze stomach acid? Do you expect it would do enough damage before you escape?
Peregrine_Wolf 05-23-07, 04:34 PM	You are correct with your chemistry, from acid does not actually corrode things unless it melts on contact.
Xeres 05-23-07, 08:27 PM	sorry, I used the polymorph spell to change into a sapphire dragon whilst in the deathdrinkers stomach, since he could not house something of that magnitude, that size, he was inadvertantly destroyed from the inside out, by being "blown up" oh and it was a spell like ability. It could be cast without components.
Darknight303 05-24-07, 09:09 AM	You couldn't use polymorph to bust the creature but if you were to follow it up with enlarge person or something to the same effect thne you could make a strength check to burst out which you DM could rule kills the thing. Just curious... how do you get in the things STOMACH? Wouldn't you end up in its lungs? You can't eat a gas, you can only inhale it. Lung compacity is a lot bigger than you would think. When unconcious, if they pump your lungs entirely full of oxygen, you can go for a VERY long time without taking a breath. The military looked in to that kind of thing once. Lungs are supposed to have a max compacity of around 5 liters in the average human. This would alos be a more logical choice as lungs are easier to destroy from inside and the thing would die a lot faster from having its lungs shreaded then from the equivilent occuring to its stomach.
drake_vampiel_d 05-24-07, 05:19 PM	eschew materials metamagic feat. eschew materials is not a meta magic feat
Xeres 05-26-07, 11:59 AM	when i was in gacious form i moved myself inside of his stomach, im playing an ogremage with a flyspeed who also has the same fly speed when in gacious form