Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moon-Lancer 08-23-05, 10:57 PM	Right now, I’m a elven druid level 8. I have a unicorn companion, that acts as a minor party healer, and evil raydar. My character has vow of poverty, and has an ac of 27 without any modifications while wildshaped. With bark skin that’s a 31. I have a question to ask. I have tweaked this character so far, that I’m thinking of scaling it back. I think I’m stepping on the fighters toes, and I didn’t mean for it to happen, but he is a new player and picked some pretty bad feats, and doesn’t seem to want to change them because he doesn’t want special treatment. But I have a feeling he is going to hate me soon for being a better fighter then he is and the ability to cast spells to boot. Anyway, anyone have any suggestions for cutting back on the druids power (not the class but just the style of playing it) but also insuring my character doesn’t die. I have started to use a new animal I came up with. It’s powerful but not as powerful as a fleshracker or desmodu bat scout. (My characters two most favorite forms.) I think I chose them for power (but that was was pure cool, but the fleshracker was kindof iffy) so I wanted to create a new animal slightly weaker then the flashbacked and desmodu bat. The animal that I came up with doesn’t fly (dm was really happy about that) but can climb walls. Think tiger from monster rancher. I think wolf like creatures rock. One idea the dm had was to use wild shape less, but last time I took on a badie without it, I got knocked down to -9 and almost died. Normally I don’t think my party can tell who is most powerful and is normally not an issue, but right now we are in a tournament, and I think even the dm is surprised how far I tend go in it. So far I have aced the player vs creature, player vs creature’s and the archery tournament. Soon the player vs player competition is going to come up, and I’m afraid when I have to fight the fighter head to head I know he cant take me if I cast spells and melee, but I also don’t want to fight below my ability, because if he founds out, (the player not the character) their might be issues. No one likes a thrown fight. I think I came up with story idea that I’m going to pitch to the dm that will make it so I don’t have to fight him and I can give up without him feeling as if I gave him the fight for free. I think this new form may give him a chance but their was no way he could have touched the demodu bat, or the fleshracker. Anyway, sorry for steeling the thread.
20goingon1232 08-23-05, 11:07 PM	Right now, I’m a elven druid level 8. I have a unicorn companion, that acts as a minor party healer, and evil raydar. My character has vow of poverty, and has an ac of 27 without any modifications while wildshaped. With bark skin that’s a 31. I have a question to ask. I have tweaked this character so far, that I’m thinking of scaling it back. I think I’m stepping on the fighters toes, and I didn’t mean for it to happen, but he is a new player and picked some pretty bad feats, and doesn’t seem to want to change them because he doesn’t want special treatment. But I have a feeling he is going to hate me soon for being a better fighter then he is and the ability to cast spells to boot. Anyway, anyone have any suggestions for cutting back on the druids power (not the class but just the style of playing it) but also insuring my character doesn’t die. I have started to use a new animal I came up with. It’s powerful but not as powerful as a fleshracker or desmodu bat scout. (My characters two most favorite forms.) I think I chose them for power (but that was was pure cool, but the fleshracker was kindof iffy) so I wanted to create a new animal slightly weaker then the flashbacked and desmodu bat. The animal that I came up with doesn’t fly (dm was really happy about that) but can climb walls. Think tiger from monster rancher. I think wolf like creatures rock. One idea the dm had was to use wild shape less, but last time I took on a badie without it, I got knocked down to -9 and almost died. Normally I don’t think my party can tell who is most powerful and is normally not an issue, but right now we are in a tournament, and I think even the dm is surprised how far I tend go in it. So far I have aced the player vs creature, player vs creature’s and the archery tournament. Soon the player vs player competition is going to come up, and I’m afraid when I have to fight the fighter head to head I know he cant take me if I cast spells and melee, but I also don’t want to fight below my ability, because if he founds out, (the player not the character) their might be issues. No one likes a thrown fight. I think I came up with story idea that I’m going to pitch to the dm that will make it so I don’t have to fight him and I can give up without him feeling as if I gave him the fight for free. I think this new form may give him a chance but their was no way he could have touched the demodu bat, or the fleshracker. Anyway, sorry for steeling the thread. You didn't steal the thread. You started it. Now, how the heck did you managed to get a Unicorn as an animal companion? And there is nothing wrong with Druids fighting in the frontlines. That is where they excell because of Wildshape. And there is also nothing you can do with the Druid's power curve unless you deliberately play it dumb. Druids are acknowledged to be the best class. Only the utterly broken builds like Cheater of Mystra and Hulking Hurler is capable of beating it in most cases.
Thorak 08-24-05, 01:32 AM	Don't step it back. If you're outperforming the fighter in melee, he has only himself to blame. The Fighter, I am firmly convinced, is not an easy class, if you take it past level 10. It is deceptively simple. Only feats? Must be easy, right? Wrong. To keep up with the power of other classes, you need to know the feats, and how they can synergize, in ways that only a Fighter really can. For instance, anyone can, by blowing all their feats, get both Defensive Throw and Karmic Strike from the CW. A Fighter uses only a small number of theirs. And the feats honestly aren't that good for most characters. But for a Fighter, with both, they've now got a combo that grants them, by taking a -4 penalty to AC, the ability to make an AoO against anyone who hits them, or misses them, in melee. That's right, you take a swing, I'm getting an AoO either way. Gotta love it. And that's only two feats. Consider Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack, with Improved Trip and a Glaive (I think that's the tripping polearm). Anyone approaches you, you trip them. And then whack them when they're down. And then dodge to the side, and whack them again, and move out of range. And then they stand up, and do it all again. Again, this'll take 5 feats, which is level 12 for most people, a heavy investment. But nearly peanuts for a Fighter. So, once you figure out some synergies, and then how the synergies themselves synergize in interesting ways, you can make a good 10+ fighter. Without a plan, though, and some understanding, you're jumping into the deep end of a pool because you saw the shallow end was shallow. There are unseen depths you haven't considered. And, more to your point, just because he's scuppered his character doesn't mean you have to scupper yours. He should see it as a learning experience, or take that special treatment and fix the dang character, especially if he's new.
Tytalus 08-24-05, 02:24 AM	I respectfully disagree. Scale your character back, give the fighter opportunities to shine. The druid is arguably the strongest core class, fighter the weakest (no need to flame if you feel otherwise; this seems to be the consensus of the Character Optimization board - a few outstanding builds excepted). VoP only makes this more pronounced (for mid levels at least). Go for alternate (fun) wildshapes, use spells to buff the fighter instead of yourself, etc. I personally don't mind scaling my characters back (i.e., not using their abilities to their fullest) if it lets other PCs take the spotlight once in a while. If the going gets tough, you can always revert to your "optimized" form (I recommend the Venomfire spell [Serpent Kigdoms] with the Fleshraker :) ). If you feel that this compromises your fun, then you have a dilemma; you'll have to ask yourself what's more important to you. For the tournament, try the story thingy you considered. Use non-optimal tactics fo the fun of them. Since that's what's important: have fun.
Xanthia 08-24-05, 02:33 AM	You shouldn't have to nerf your character because someone else can't make a good a build as you. That is the general rule. However, if it's ruining a new player's fun, you might want to swap out that character for another one (you might have the Druid come back later). Try a class that you're unfamiliar with, try something new. My suggestion would be to try a class that isn't as powerful, one that can't be power-gamed as easily (such as a Ranger, Sorcerer, or Bard). This way, you and the new player can both do your best and still be on the same power-level.
Moon-Lancer 08-24-05, 03:00 AM	I posted a altered version of this on the enworld boards, that’s why i have the comment about thread stealing. The op was wondering why people think druids were strong and I posted my story and asked for advice. Anyway a druid can get a unicorn companion at level 8 via the exalted companion feat (or something to that nature) in book of exalted deeds. Paladins can get a unicorn if their elf and take the Racal substitution levels in races of wild. anyway I think, that I have decided to play to the best of my abilities, but I think that I should use more support spells on the fighter as well as this doesn’t mean I’m not trying my hardest, it just means I’m not focusing on me to be a powerhouse. I usually keep a slot for bark skin that I usually save for harder creatures that may be able to hit me, Next time I will just cast it on the fighter and see what happens. If you could end combat in 2 rounds by not self buffing and casting two damage spells, and you know even if the opponent can make both saves to the attack spells and will die because of low hp (level adjustment), you instead buff yourself up as normal and begin fighting, witch is more honorable? Is there even an answer and is there not workaround to winning a battle without making the opponent feel sub par because they are a caster that decided to take a -3 level adjustment? to Xanthia the player hasn’t said anything and is a kind natured guy, I just don’t want problems to come out later. He may be the type of guy that doesn’t say anything if something is bugging him. I was wondering what’s the best solution so i can prevent a problem from happening. (i think ahead to much, some times even to a paranoid amount). This could all be in my head, and he is just fine playing as is. or he isent worried about power or being outshined sometimes. I was hoping their was a way to play my druid and i think i will go with the obvious answer witch is Buff him and not me, Let him have the spotlight but then take it for myself once in a while. It doesn’t help that the dm is completely focused on the story and that she inset very good at combat, even though we are about a 60/40 role-play and combat. don’t get me wrong, story and role-playing his very fun. I like the part were i bum money off the fighter for the inn fee because of vop. i never stop seeing the hummer in having lots of gold that I’m going to give to charity but i cant spend any of it for the inn. Its really a fun game though. I am just paranoid and want to keep it that way. (the game being fun that is) *edit* i typed this when it was late, it may have mestakes.
nyaif36 08-24-05, 04:26 AM	i have one question, after how many combats do you end up having to rest to recharge your wild shape and spells? you might want to try holding off on your spells during the small fights and then wail on the fatties...
Moon-Lancer 08-24-05, 11:43 AM	We probably don’t have enough combats before rest. Usually one maybe two combats. Right now we are heavy in story so when we fight they are usually once a day. During the dungeon crawling parts of the game, we usually fight at three times a day.
ShadowDragon8685 08-24-05, 11:53 AM	Here's a thought. If you think you're really screwing the newbie, which is entirely possible, throw your VoP. That's right, throw your Exalted feat down the drain by violating it. Just decide in character you got sick of it, and move on.
Thorak 08-24-05, 01:16 PM	We probably don’t have enough combats before rest. Usually one maybe two combats. Right now we are heavy in story so when we fight they are usually once a day. During the dungeon crawling parts of the game, we usually fight at three times a day. This is probably 90% of the problem, despite what the others have said. The game is balanced assuming 4 encounters between rests. A class with uses/day abilities like spells and Wildshape is, necessarily, going to be made stronger by having fewer encounters to use up their abilities. As an example, psionics. You can pump all your power points into a single blast for sick damage. The balance factor is supposed to be being nigh-useless for the remaining encounters that day. Same difference here; too few encounters strengthen your character's abilities.
Moon-Lancer 08-24-05, 02:31 PM	i will suggest that to the dm. thanks.
Clawhound 08-25-05, 11:10 AM	Definitely use your spells to help the fighter shine. Your barkskin works for the fighter, as well as for you. A "tripping" form can flank and trip for the fighter, who then power-whacks the opponent. You can later transform into a mount, and you and the fighter can really kick some HP. In other words, HOW you play the fights matters as much as your abilities. If you choose to synergize with the fighter and make choices that are fun for both of you, not only do you both get more powerful, you both have more fun!