Difficult DM? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Difficult DM? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SmokeX
03-07-06, 01:24 PM Alright im not one to complain to much but a frined of mine has recently created a campaign. Its not a bad little journey thus far he has some good idea...its just that after we just got to 3rd lvl (we being a barb, a rouge, a wizard, and a Ninja(me)) we engaged in battle with 6 guards 2 cleircs and a vampire...after a lenghty battle and the barb being knocked out we finaly finished off the vampire (even tho he had control of the rouge). after cleaning up the bodies we decided to end our session the DM awarded EXP...each char recieved 625....after a stuned silence we started debating weather that was fair...it just ened with the DM telling us that we were wrong. I dont think the guy knows how to read the exp tables or set monster lvls...
what are we to do?
High Octane
03-07-06, 01:27 PM Ask him to explain himself. DMs are to be held accountable for their decisions.
LCD2YOU
03-07-06, 01:39 PM I just have to ask this question.

Ok, there are 4 characters in the party all at 3rd level.

You took on 6 guards (Warrior 1, CR 1/2 each), two Clerics (Cleric 1, CR 1 each) and a Vampire (minimum build at CR 3?)

At miminum, that is an encounter CR of 6.

Personally, with the Barbarian out of the way and the vampire controlling the rogue, I don't see how you lived at all. Perhaps the DM is upset that he played the encounter so badly that he took it out on the players.
SmokeX
03-07-06, 01:41 PM The main problem i think is that he doesent know how to award proper exp...I dont think he's ever actualy played D&D before... :(
Asciiman
03-07-06, 01:41 PM Well what were the CR's of everything? Just saying you faced 6 guards and 2 clerics means nothing.

If the guards were level 1 warriors they are half a CR each. They may have been even weaker. The clerics might have just had 1 level each too. The vampire is a little more revealing in what you are facing but even that could be a really weakened vampire.

In short you need to know the levels and races of everything and the CR of the vampire before you can call him on it.

But keep in mind that some DM's don't want to level up at the pace the DMG offers so they give reduced amounts. This is a common practice although he should have mentioned this earlier if he is doing this.
LCD2YOU
03-07-06, 01:42 PM The main problem i think is that he doesent know how to award proper exp...I dont think he's ever actualy played D&D before... :(
Actually, the Exp for 625 per character is correct, maybe a little high. The Exp generators I've seen give between 590 and 630.
SmokeX
03-07-06, 01:46 PM The barb went slash happy on the vampire and nailed him several times along with the wizard who had a wand of MM shooting the vamp with 3 MM each turn she had...i ran around and worked on the guards which werent much of a problem...just that the half giant barb was decimated and the rouge took the wizard pretty much out...lucily she finished vampy off...she delt most damgage because of Damage reduction and i think he regerated each round too...just seemed BS...and we were luck to survive...

we just figured that the vamp had to be atleast lvl 5 or somthing...or stronger...oh twell..
LCD2YOU
03-07-06, 02:08 PM No. Vamps are bad news all by themselves. They have a good DR, regenerate like crazy and can go gaseous at anytime.

The vampire, btw, is not destroyed.
SmokeX
03-07-06, 03:19 PM The vampire, btw, is not destroyed.

The barb smashed a casket on the way in looking for loot...he got zaped with a trap but the casket was destroyed... :( I hope that was his... :(
Bruunwald
03-07-06, 03:39 PM There's more going on here, too. You mentioned that the wizard was using a wand that granted three magic missiles per round. At fourth level, your wizard could only hope to cast two per turn, I believe. So that wand is a slightly more powerful item than you might normally have. Are there any other such items owned by the party? If so, your DM might be compensating for giving you higher-powered items to help you.

As for getting your butts handed to you before a final victory, welcome to the game, my friend. That's par for the course. You don't get a bigger XP award just because the final fight wasn't a walk in the park. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park.
20goingon1232
03-07-06, 04:08 PM At 3rd level, it doesn't really matter what the CRs are below 4. So, assuming that all of the bad guys were of CRs below 4, you are talking about 75 exp per monster (300/4). That means 8*75 = 600XP. I don't have my DMG with me, but that looks about right, from memory. The DMG lists them as 300XP per kill for the whole party. You still have to divide the XP gained by the number of PCs in the party.

The numbers might be slightly off, but it looks about right.
Delfedd
03-07-06, 05:12 PM I don't know, perhaps it wasn't really a vampire, only a vampire spawn?

What abilitys did you see?
Ashok_Lal
03-07-06, 10:58 PM A great fight against great odds.Party members possessed. Magic being flung about. PCs gong down.
It sounds ALL GOOD to me and the xp sounds about right. So stop complaining and look back at the adventure and think of how much fun it was!
concerro
03-08-06, 04:30 AM A great fight against great odds.Party members possessed. Magic being flung about. PCs gong down.
It sounds ALL GOOD to me and the xp sounds about right. So stop complaining and look back at the adventure and think of how much fun it was!
i think part of the complaint is that if the DM did the XP wrong this time he might do it again.
SmokeX
03-08-06, 08:43 AM Oh no, dont get me wrong. im having a blast and it was a fun battle. the main abilitys we saw from the vampire were his ability to take over other players...uh he had a slam attack...that was about it...i guess it sounds ligit. i guess that in every game iv played before we just surpassed lvl 4 rather quickly to get to the juicyer stuff...thanks for the input.
Azezel
03-08-06, 09:03 AM Assuming your foes were six lvl 1 Warriors (CR 1/3) two lvl 1 Clerics (CR 1) and one lvl 1 Vampire (Human Warrior with Vampire Template CR 3) I would have given a party of four lvl 3 PC's 525 xp, and they would have felt lucky to get it. This is quite a tough fight.

If the Vampire were the basic Vampire listed on Page 251 of the MM then it is a CR7 (human Fighter 5 + Vampire Template).

If I had put a party of four lvl threes against this Vampire, and those other foes then I would award 1'200xp - not that it would matter, because you would all be dead.

Here's what I think happened.

Your Dm gave you six lvl 1 Warriors, two lvl 1 Clerics, and one lvl 1 Warrior with Vampire template. This equates to 525xp, but because it was such a tough fight he gave you each an extra 100xp. Dm's are often generous that way.

You, the whiney players, thought that this was not generous enough, so you looked in the MM and saw that the standard Vampire is CR7. Not realising that this Vampire could have killed you with his eyebrows, you assume the DM ripped you off.

Go and appologise to your DM.
lucas
03-08-06, 11:14 AM i agree, you do not know what level there are, plus if the vampire is not destroyed. he does not have to give u full xp.
Rian Lightblade
03-08-06, 07:31 PM i agree, you do not know what level there are, plus if the vampire is not destroyed. he does not have to give u full xp.

I agree with Azezel as well. I also agree with Lucus on the not awarding of full xp for driving off a vampire but not destroying it. I done that once or twice (probably closer or 6 or 7) in a couple of RL campaigns myself.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SmokeX 03-07-06, 01:24 PM	Alright im not one to complain to much but a frined of mine has recently created a campaign. Its not a bad little journey thus far he has some good idea...its just that after we just got to 3rd lvl (we being a barb, a rouge, a wizard, and a Ninja(me)) we engaged in battle with 6 guards 2 cleircs and a vampire...after a lenghty battle and the barb being knocked out we finaly finished off the vampire (even tho he had control of the rouge). after cleaning up the bodies we decided to end our session the DM awarded EXP...each char recieved 625....after a stuned silence we started debating weather that was fair...it just ened with the DM telling us that we were wrong. I dont think the guy knows how to read the exp tables or set monster lvls... what are we to do?
High Octane 03-07-06, 01:27 PM	Ask him to explain himself. DMs are to be held accountable for their decisions.
LCD2YOU 03-07-06, 01:39 PM	I just have to ask this question. Ok, there are 4 characters in the party all at 3rd level. You took on 6 guards (Warrior 1, CR 1/2 each), two Clerics (Cleric 1, CR 1 each) and a Vampire (minimum build at CR 3?) At miminum, that is an encounter CR of 6. Personally, with the Barbarian out of the way and the vampire controlling the rogue, I don't see how you lived at all. Perhaps the DM is upset that he played the encounter so badly that he took it out on the players.
SmokeX 03-07-06, 01:41 PM	The main problem i think is that he doesent know how to award proper exp...I dont think he's ever actualy played D&D before... :(
Asciiman 03-07-06, 01:41 PM	Well what were the CR's of everything? Just saying you faced 6 guards and 2 clerics means nothing. If the guards were level 1 warriors they are half a CR each. They may have been even weaker. The clerics might have just had 1 level each too. The vampire is a little more revealing in what you are facing but even that could be a really weakened vampire. In short you need to know the levels and races of everything and the CR of the vampire before you can call him on it. But keep in mind that some DM's don't want to level up at the pace the DMG offers so they give reduced amounts. This is a common practice although he should have mentioned this earlier if he is doing this.
LCD2YOU 03-07-06, 01:42 PM	The main problem i think is that he doesent know how to award proper exp...I dont think he's ever actualy played D&D before... :( Actually, the Exp for 625 per character is correct, maybe a little high. The Exp generators I've seen give between 590 and 630.
SmokeX 03-07-06, 01:46 PM	The barb went slash happy on the vampire and nailed him several times along with the wizard who had a wand of MM shooting the vamp with 3 MM each turn she had...i ran around and worked on the guards which werent much of a problem...just that the half giant barb was decimated and the rouge took the wizard pretty much out...lucily she finished vampy off...she delt most damgage because of Damage reduction and i think he regerated each round too...just seemed BS...and we were luck to survive... we just figured that the vamp had to be atleast lvl 5 or somthing...or stronger...oh twell..
LCD2YOU 03-07-06, 02:08 PM	No. Vamps are bad news all by themselves. They have a good DR, regenerate like crazy and can go gaseous at anytime. The vampire, btw, is not destroyed.
SmokeX 03-07-06, 03:19 PM	The vampire, btw, is not destroyed. The barb smashed a casket on the way in looking for loot...he got zaped with a trap but the casket was destroyed... :( I hope that was his... :(
Bruunwald 03-07-06, 03:39 PM	There's more going on here, too. You mentioned that the wizard was using a wand that granted three magic missiles per round. At fourth level, your wizard could only hope to cast two per turn, I believe. So that wand is a slightly more powerful item than you might normally have. Are there any other such items owned by the party? If so, your DM might be compensating for giving you higher-powered items to help you. As for getting your butts handed to you before a final victory, welcome to the game, my friend. That's par for the course. You don't get a bigger XP award just because the final fight wasn't a walk in the park. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park.
20goingon1232 03-07-06, 04:08 PM	At 3rd level, it doesn't really matter what the CRs are below 4. So, assuming that all of the bad guys were of CRs below 4, you are talking about 75 exp per monster (300/4). That means 8*75 = 600XP. I don't have my DMG with me, but that looks about right, from memory. The DMG lists them as 300XP per kill for the whole party. You still have to divide the XP gained by the number of PCs in the party. The numbers might be slightly off, but it looks about right.
Delfedd 03-07-06, 05:12 PM	I don't know, perhaps it wasn't really a vampire, only a vampire spawn? What abilitys did you see?
Ashok_Lal 03-07-06, 10:58 PM	A great fight against great odds.Party members possessed. Magic being flung about. PCs gong down. It sounds ALL GOOD to me and the xp sounds about right. So stop complaining and look back at the adventure and think of how much fun it was!
concerro 03-08-06, 04:30 AM	A great fight against great odds.Party members possessed. Magic being flung about. PCs gong down. It sounds ALL GOOD to me and the xp sounds about right. So stop complaining and look back at the adventure and think of how much fun it was! i think part of the complaint is that if the DM did the XP wrong this time he might do it again.
SmokeX 03-08-06, 08:43 AM	Oh no, dont get me wrong. im having a blast and it was a fun battle. the main abilitys we saw from the vampire were his ability to take over other players...uh he had a slam attack...that was about it...i guess it sounds ligit. i guess that in every game iv played before we just surpassed lvl 4 rather quickly to get to the juicyer stuff...thanks for the input.
Azezel 03-08-06, 09:03 AM	Assuming your foes were six lvl 1 Warriors (CR 1/3) two lvl 1 Clerics (CR 1) and one lvl 1 Vampire (Human Warrior with Vampire Template CR 3) I would have given a party of four lvl 3 PC's 525 xp, and they would have felt lucky to get it. This is quite a tough fight. If the Vampire were the basic Vampire listed on Page 251 of the MM then it is a CR7 (human Fighter 5 + Vampire Template). If I had put a party of four lvl threes against this Vampire, and those other foes then I would award 1'200xp - not that it would matter, because you would all be dead. Here's what I think happened. Your Dm gave you six lvl 1 Warriors, two lvl 1 Clerics, and one lvl 1 Warrior with Vampire template. This equates to 525xp, but because it was such a tough fight he gave you each an extra 100xp. Dm's are often generous that way. You, the whiney players, thought that this was not generous enough, so you looked in the MM and saw that the standard Vampire is CR7. Not realising that this Vampire could have killed you with his eyebrows, you assume the DM ripped you off. Go and appologise to your DM.
lucas 03-08-06, 11:14 AM	i agree, you do not know what level there are, plus if the vampire is not destroyed. he does not have to give u full xp.
Rian Lightblade 03-08-06, 07:31 PM	i agree, you do not know what level there are, plus if the vampire is not destroyed. he does not have to give u full xp. I agree with Azezel as well. I also agree with Lucus on the not awarding of full xp for driving off a vampire but not destroying it. I done that once or twice (probably closer or 6 or 7) in a couple of RL campaigns myself.