Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-18-06, 04:56 PM	This thread is to talk about difficult teammates. The ones that dominate roleplaying and try to dominate you. Or make getting along near impossible. There is a fighter in my group who threatens (and nearly shoots) any he dislikes with a crossbow and is the self proclaimed leader. Another fighter cuts off and trys to control the roleplaying aspect for other players. Both fighters are extremely paranoid about the others of the group bringing doom to all. There was an instance where a sarcophagus was opened by a rogue and I wanted to visually examine the body inside because the coffins were HUGE. They freaked out and yelled/shouted over my attempts to roleplay with the DM. The one fighter nearly shot our rogue (and we were in a trap-ridden labrinth maze end). How does one deal with characters/players like this? Is it best to seek other people to play with?
chiefcastor 10-18-06, 05:18 PM	Well... If they are playing their characters in this way it is different from the player always being this way. If they are roleplaying in this way, I would talk to them and tell them its disruptive and next time make the backstory of your characters together so they have a reason to get along. If the player is just like this all the time then I would find new players to play with.
Comus 10-18-06, 05:21 PM	You've got two options. 1) Talk to the group. If they're a problem for everyone, then you might want to talk to the DM about having a sit-down and fixing the problem. Is there a reason they're paranoid? Is it the players, or just their characters? Find out. 2) Leave the group. Maybe their style of play isn't for you - the two players might be used to a gritty, realistic game where death could be around any corner. Call of Cthulhu, for example, leads to people burning books before looking at them and never - never EVER - going within a thousand yards of a temple of any kind. What isn't an option is being a jerk. Don't kill their characters in the middle of the night, or anything like that. Don't fall to the Dark Side of interparty conflict.
Matthew77 10-18-06, 05:48 PM	I agree with Chiefcastor: First determine if this is a Player problem or a Character problem. A character problem can be dealt with ingame, especially with the help of the DM. If your rogue is being bullied and threatened by the burly fighters, feel free to respond... pickpocket an extra share of the treasure, talk to the cleric about who gets healing priority, make sure that NPCs notice their nasty attitude. Maybe suggest writing a party charter that clearly explains who is a leader in what situation. One good solution is to write a charter that states "in a combat situation, the most skilled fighter acts as war leader. While exploring or scouting, the most adept rogue is the leader. When dealing with magical items, the most knowledgable wizard takes command" etc... If it is a _Player_ problem (which your description leads me to believe may be the case) then you are in more of a sticky situation. This has to be resolved like any other personality conflict. Express your concerns in a calm, reasoned manner. As a final resort, find a new group to play with.
FRRC 10-18-06, 06:18 PM	If you were Evil you could point out that although they impose themselves onto everyone that they appear to be incredibly cowardly, which makes them useless to the party. Make it a point to tell them that their aggresiveness towards the party might make them unwanted and their overcautious nature may cause "accidents" may happen. Another option, if Evil of course, is to compliment their incredibility. The next time you go into a monster infested room, let them go in first because they're obviously superior. Make sure someone gets a "Message" spell on them. When they enter, close up the door behind them. Tell them that you and the party refuse to help till you reach a comprimise (Reminding the DM to keep playing so the Fighters really feel under pressure). Make it known that you don't need the Fighters to leave the dungeon the way you came. EDIT: Make sure your other team-mates are aware of your plan. If after these negotiations the Fighters go on a party killing spree, you can gladly tell them where to shuve it.
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-18-06, 09:40 PM	All really good suggestions. some are humorous. I think they are paranoid because three people in the party are new to D&D. They tend to try to govern our actions instead of letting us learn or trusting that we are doing our best to please everyone while roleplaying our character. Unfortunately, my dwarven cleric is on a mission from his high forgesmiths to help these people, and is uncertain of how much say he has in a group...although he has blown up and shouted for silence more than once for some room to think.
Ashok_Lal 10-19-06, 01:04 AM	Are you new to the game? if yes maybe they are looking over you. Are you new to this DM? If yes maybe they know how dangerous this DM can be & don't want there charicters killed becourse the cleric & rouge just went & opened a HUGE sarcophagus with out any thoght. NASTY things can hang out in HUGE sarcophaguses. Rogue: "Duh whats in this giant coffin, fink ill open it" Cleric : "Me to" Vetrans: "Noooooo"
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-19-06, 01:54 AM	actually it was more like this Rogue:OOOOH a coffin!!! im bored so ill open it while they are talking! Cleric: omg are you ok? well might as well look now that its open. Vetrans: DONT TOUCH IT!!! Cleric:im not going to VETRANS: back away!! (fighter raises crossbow) Cleric: ummm im only going to look at it..(what do i see ? what is inside?) DM: you see a wrapped huminoid 8 ft tall and surrounded by gems Vetrans:DONT TOUCH IT! Cleric: I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT WE MAY BE UP AGAINST! GEEZ im done
Dragonsblood 10-19-06, 02:50 AM	I'm sorry but opening a giant coffin because "you're bored and they're talking" IS stupid. What you did was stupid also because it was reckless. You SHOULD get yelled at by the other party members. In my group, one player consistantly does this with all of his characters. For example we were desiding whether or not to chase some kobalds down a hallway with 5 levers the kobalds just pulled in a dungeon that's had about 10 previous traps. While we were discussing this, said player, a cleric, says "screw it, I'm running down the hallway after the kobalds." He gets crited by a scythe trap. Another time, said player has a rogue PC. We send him across a "Temple of Doom" style pit filled hallway to find the switch to deactivate the trap. Instead of doing this, his curiousity leads him through a door that locks behind him alone with a grip of zombies. Another time his level 2 cleric desides to investigate a town crypt alone where he gets killed by a ghast. Needless to say, this player goes through a new character every other session and has yet to learn :weep:
Bandolar Goldcrest 10-19-06, 03:23 AM	I'm sorry but opening a giant coffin because "you're bored and they're talking" IS stupid. What you did was stupid also because it was reckless. You SHOULD get yelled at by the other party members. Oh come on now, the DM wouldn't throw a giant coffin in if he didn't want it opened. Coffins are a pretty standard thing when you think about it. Everyone dies, and not all of them become undead, so there has to be lots of plain old coffins of all sizes without the "of doom" descriptor. If I was in the position the OP mentions, I would just hand one of the "veterans" my character sheet and tell him "if you are going to play my character, this might be helpful. I'll just roll some dice when required".
pita 10-19-06, 03:42 AM	Kill his character while he sleeps. It's what jesus would do! Or, your new god mst'r ieb'al will do.
DracoPhoenix 10-19-06, 04:20 AM	Ok, the example given - of the coffin, does seem like they were trying to keep you alive. But given the trigger happy nature of the fighters 1) cast protection from arrows :) 2) IC tell the DM that your character returns to the forgesmith and says that his services are clearly not wanted by the party and can you have re-assignment? 3) OC tell the fighters you can understand that they may have issues with your experience of the game, but how can you learn to play for yourself if they're always telling you what to do? Their immediate answer will most likely be effectively you cant be trusted to metagame like someone with 10 years D&D experience. (and they're right :)) To which you point out that a L1 is unlikely to know much about the sleeping arrangements of your typical lich, the dietry requirements of a beholder or that their companions are really under a powerful charm to encourage them to attack their own (inexperienced) party members :) That said, by L2-3, there's a good chance that they should have learned caution on apparently easy money, is probably a good survival trait :) (Rogue searching for traps on anything closed / locked etc :)) [edit: addendum] Is it worth, out of game, discussing a certain level of kid gloves by the DM to prevent really bad ideas from being carried out? (as a priest, you should have your deity on speed dial)
Hack and Smasher 10-19-06, 07:17 AM	Your the cleric, this means that your the person in charge of healing (because your the one which casting the heal spells) so feel free to save spells for when there "needed" that should shut them up pretty quick.
Tharin G'tal 10-19-06, 08:10 AM	Man I feel for you, There's nothing worse than people not letting you play your pc how you want to. There's a guy in the session I play in that has decided that because he's an Aasimar sorceror and has a Cha of 18 he should be leader, if anyone does something he disagrees with he casts charm person on them in order to control their actions. It's seriously annoyed everyone and despite speaking to him about it in and out of character he refuses to listen, even the DM has warned him of the consequences of his actions. I'm actually amazed by the restraint showed by the half-orc barbarian who passed his will save, tho I dont think he'll restrain himself a second time :D Advice for you tho mate would be to speak to them before the next session, explain your feelings and that you just want to play your pc's your way, the vets should be given shouting rites if you land them in crap tho :D Hope it works out for you :D
FRRC 10-19-06, 09:06 AM	Man I feel for you, There's nothing worse than people not letting you play your pc how you want to. There's a guy in the session I play in that has decided that because he's an Aasimar sorceror and has a Cha of 18 he should be leader, if anyone does something he disagrees with he casts charm person on them in order to control their actions. It's seriously annoyed everyone and despite speaking to him about it in and out of character he refuses to listen, even the DM has warned him of the consequences of his actions. I'm actually amazed by the restraint showed by the half-orc barbarian who passed his will save, tho I dont think he'll restrain himself a second time :D Thats actually quite fun. Although it would be alot better if he had Silent/Still spell so when the players disagree with him, the DM just says "You feel compelled to agree with the Aasimar" :P
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-19-06, 09:55 AM	couldnt party members see that as being "attacked/targeted" by the sorceror? is that a hostile action? I know a dwarf would not accept being bewitched very well.
Tharin G'tal 10-19-06, 11:15 AM	couldnt party members see that as being "attacked/targeted" by the sorceror? is that a hostile action? I know a dwarf would not accept being bewitched very well. Exactly! Those most aggrieved by his actions first spoke to him OOC and he just said he was playing his character as he wanted too and wasn't going to stop, they replied with 'well dont complain when we act in character and put you through the floor!' One of them is playing an ex-slave who's vowed never to be anyones puppet again. Its going to be an interesting session tonight :D
Dragonsblood 10-19-06, 04:50 PM	Oh come on now, the DM wouldn't throw a giant coffin in if he didn't want it opened. Coffins are a pretty standard thing when you think about it. Everyone dies, and not all of them become undead, so there has to be lots of plain old coffins of all sizes without the "of doom" descriptor. If I was in the position the OP mentions, I would just hand one of the "veterans" my character sheet and tell him "if you are going to play my character, this might be helpful. I'll just roll some dice when required". Oh I'm not saying it shouldn't be opened :) Just that it shouldn't be opened without precautions. No one should do something in a dungeon "because they're bored and the other group members are talking." It's perfectly reasonable for the fighters to tell the rogue and cleric to wait while they discuss the party's options. I think we're only hearing one side of this arguement. With my experience with "stupid players" I have my doubts that these guys are controlling the less experienced PCs as much as the OP claims. Pointing the crossbow was probably a bit over the top though :P
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-19-06, 05:22 PM	Exactly! Those most aggrieved by his actions first spoke to him OOC and he just said he was playing his character as he wanted too and wasn't going to stop, they replied with 'well dont complain when we act in character and put you through the floor!' One of them is playing an ex-slave who's vowed never to be anyones puppet again. Its going to be an interesting session tonight :D Interesting indeed!! please report back what happened! :D
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-19-06, 05:36 PM	Oh I'm not saying it shouldn't be opened :) Just that it shouldn't be opened without precautions. No one should do something in a dungeon "because they're bored and the other group members are talking." It's perfectly reasonable for the fighters to tell the rogue and cleric to wait while they discuss the party's options. I think we're only hearing one side of this arguement. With my experience with "stupid players" I have my doubts that these guys are controlling the less experienced PCs as much as the OP claims. Pointing the crossbow was probably a bit over the top though :P Let me tell you what happened afterwards. Cleric: So what's with this door here? Fighter: It's the way out! duh! Cleric:..(what does the door look like?) DM: The door is ten feet wide and ten feet tall, it has a dial like contraption around a GIANT keyhole thats black and pointed. Cleric: O.O Vetrans: lets open it! Rogue: I'll try to pick it DM: your tiny pick breaks in the lock Rogue: darn.. Vetrans: LOOK! a giant key painted on the floor! Any ways...we're lvl1-3 and they wanted to open a GIANT DOOR surrounded by an EVEN number on each side of sarcophagi. we couldnt stay to try because 1 not enough torches and 2 i didnt want to look into opening an ominous door that could possibly be sealing something evil. We also had an ominous foretelling of the town catching fire in 2 months...and coincidentally the paster sent word to higher ups who should be arriving in a month or two to "help"
Tharin G'tal 10-20-06, 08:17 AM	Just reporting back on last nights session with the control freak sorceror. Almost immediately in the session we're ambushed by a group of bandits, about halfway through the fight the only party members to have taken any serious damage is the half-orc barbarian. The sorceror proceeds to charm the cleric into healing him (he'd taken 6 hp from a stray arrow) despite having two thirds of his hp left, bearing in mind that all the bandits were engaged in melee and he was safe from harm for the time being. Much to everyones annoyance the cleric fluffs his roll and heals his mate the sorceror. The barbarian gets dropped to -2 hp. Everyones fuming :headexplo A bit later we're stopped by some humans wanting a toll to travel 'their' road, before we can reply the sorceror steps up and declares "I'm gonna hit him with a Magic Missile then step behind the fighters". Everyone groans. I'm playing a venerable Gray Elf Wizard ( a concept I unashamedly stole off a bloke on these forums!) and he decided to teach the cocky young sorceror a lesson. Beating everyone in initiative I calmly state i'm going to Charm the Sorceror and have him charge the lead bandit so he can protect his friends, everyones smiling except the sorceror who's having a hissy fit. He actually starts swearing at the DM for allowing it saying it's unethical and shouldn't be allowed, you shouldn't be able to control other peoples pc's like that etc etc, basically all the things we'd spoken to him about. Needless to say he fails his roll against my stupidly high DC and trundles off towards the bandits, the player is still fuming. Amazingly he actually survived the encounter, through a bit of team work by other people and was calmly told 'I hope you've learnt your leson young man' by my ageing wizard. He didn't cast charm person on us again for the rest of the session, hopefully for the rest of the campaign too, though I have my doubts :D
FRRC 10-20-06, 08:31 AM	That reminds me of a horrible thing I did to a player. We just won a battle defending a town and the Paladin wanted to give a speech. This guy was really into Larping so he began writing it out. 30 minutes later he says, "I'm ready for my speach!". So his character stands up on the podium (He stands up next to the table), and I think "I'm not sitting through this". I pass a note to the DM saying that I want to cast Hypnotism on him before he gives his speech. He fails his save. The command I gave him was to freeze up with stage fright when he wants to start his speech. So he walks off the podium (None too happy with me) and the Rogue goes up and gives a really short "Well done" speech, and everyone thinks the Paladin is a scardy cat :) After everyone went home, I had a look at the original speech. It was full of cheese. "We are brothers in arms" and "We fought glorius battle against..." etc. I was pleased with my choice :P
jasper 10-20-06, 09:06 AM	Is it best to seek other people to play with? No you must play always with these goobers. Of course you a human not tiolet paper. If you don't like the player or his actions, get a new player. Why is it some gamers think since D&D is special, they have to deal with special people? Hint if you would not play poker with the dude why play other games?
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-20-06, 04:43 PM	Just reporting back on last nights session with the control freak sorceror. Almost immediately in the session we're ambushed by a group of bandits, about halfway through the fight the only party members to have taken any serious damage is the half-orc barbarian. The sorceror proceeds to charm the cleric into healing him (he'd taken 6 hp from a stray arrow) despite having two thirds of his hp left, bearing in mind that all the bandits were engaged in melee and he was safe from harm for the time being. Much to everyones annoyance the cleric fluffs his roll and heals his mate the sorceror. The barbarian gets dropped to -2 hp. Everyones fuming :headexplo A bit later we're stopped by some humans wanting a toll to travel 'their' road, before we can reply the sorceror steps up and declares "I'm gonna hit him with a Magic Missile then step behind the fighters". Everyone groans. I'm playing a venerable Gray Elf Wizard ( a concept I unashamedly stole off a bloke on these forums!) and he decided to teach the cocky young sorceror a lesson. Beating everyone in initiative I calmly state i'm going to Charm the Sorceror and have him charge the lead bandit so he can protect his friends, everyones smiling except the sorceror who's having a hissy fit. He actually starts swearing at the DM for allowing it saying it's unethical and shouldn't be allowed, you shouldn't be able to control other peoples pc's like that etc etc, basically all the things we'd spoken to him about. Needless to say he fails his roll against my stupidly high DC and trundles off towards the bandits, the player is still fuming. Amazingly he actually survived the encounter, through a bit of team work by other people and was calmly told 'I hope you've learnt your leson young man' by my ageing wizard. He didn't cast charm person on us again for the rest of the session, hopefully for the rest of the campaign too, though I have my doubts :D BRILLIANT!!! now what should i do about them dictating who and when i should heal? (the fighters i mean?)
DracoPhoenix 10-20-06, 05:37 PM	BRILLIANT!!! now what should i do about them dictating who and when i should heal? (the fighters i mean?) use a variant of the -2hp barbarian incident - heal whenever one of the other guys gets a slight scratch - but the fighters still have to charm you for it. when you run out of healing and they suffer for it, they might want to review the "heal little, heal often" approach
Comus 10-20-06, 05:43 PM	BRILLIANT!!! now what should i do about them dictating who and when i should heal? (the fighters i mean?) If they're worrying about healing, and you're the one providing it, then you have leverage. What I would do, if my character didn't have any real reason to heal these people except that they're travelling together, is actually very simple. Heck, it's even on the Evil Overlord List. "I will spare someone who saved my life sometime in the past. This is only reasonable as it encourages others to do so. However, the offer is good one time only. If they want me to spare them again, they'd better save my life again." I'm sure you can see how that can be applied to healing.
kelvinaw273 10-21-06, 04:41 PM	BRILLIANT!!! now what should i do about them dictating who and when i should heal? (the fighters i mean?) Refuse. Seriously, if you are playing a cleric you have religous focus to your character. Your powers are granted by your deity or philosophy, and you can choose to enforce this. (a) say you don't want to waste any healing spells over 1st level on anyone who is not a follower of your god, unless it directly benefits his cause. Make it a 10% of wealth tithe to convert :D (b) when they insist you heal somebody at their demand, smile crazedly at their left ear and in a calm, neutral tone tell them earnestly that you are waiting for your god to give you the OK. (c) Ignore them. If the players get angry, tell them bluntly that YOU are playing the cleric, not them, and you will cast spells when you decide it is appropriate or not at all - their choice. If they threaten, tell them that if they kill your character you will not create another cleric on principal.
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-21-06, 04:55 PM	Refuse. Seriously, if you are playing a cleric you have religous focus to your character. Your powers are granted by your deity or philosophy, and you can choose to enforce this. (a) say you don't want to waste any healing spells over 1st level on anyone who is not a follower of your god, unless it directly benefits his cause. Make it a 10% of wealth tithe to convert :D (b) when they insist you heal somebody at their demand, smile crazedly at their left ear and in a calm, neutral tone tell them earnestly that you are waiting for your god to give you the OK. (c) Ignore them. If the players get angry, tell them bluntly that YOU are playing the cleric, not them, and you will cast spells when you decide it is appropriate or not at all - their choice. If they threaten, tell them that if they kill your character you will not create another cleric on principal. good idea....cus seriously, my guy doesnt even have enough gold to buy necessary components for spells of 2nd level and is wearing **** armor, while they're all plate and such
Dragonsblood 10-21-06, 07:44 PM	good idea....cus seriously, my guy doesnt even have enough gold to buy necessary components for spells of 2nd level and is wearing **** armor, while they're all plate and such Maybe you just need to stop acting like a pushover? One of the players in my group is a major pushover, and it's painful to watch when the other guys exploit this.
pita 10-22-06, 03:42 AM	Kill one of the fighters in his sleep. When he remakes his character, say "This time I'm getting a share." Repeat as necessary. Meh. I'm just evil.
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-22-06, 03:54 AM	Kill one of the fighters in his sleep. When he remakes his character, say "This time I'm getting a share." Repeat as necessary. Meh. I'm just evil. my character is good... so yeah... As for pushover...am i one? I dont think so much...but when i argue i usually lose. they can be intimidating/overbearing OOC as well I cant really leave the game cus im so into the plot! I NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS!!! *grabs another handful of pixie sticks*
pita 10-22-06, 05:21 AM	If they become intimidating and overbearing stop healing them or make them pay. Literally. I mean, charge them money. "Let's see, you want me to cast a 1st level spell, one squared times 500 is 500, and that's what you give me. That or your plate mail."
Maxwell_Silverhammer 10-31-06, 01:59 PM	I ended up leaving that group and joining another because they wouldnt let me roleplay my cleric the way i wanted. A cleric is not just a healer. they are also warriors. If i have stabalized a teammate i have every right to join the fight.
FeceMan 10-31-06, 04:17 PM	I'm playing a venerable Gray Elf Wizard ( a concept I unashamedly stole off a bloke on these forums!) and he decided to teach the cocky young sorceror a lesson. The senile one? Because I liked that character :D .