difficult to fit in [Archive] - Wizards Community

difficult to fit in [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HassanNinkin
05-16-07, 02:17 PM We're starting a campaign very soon in forgotten realms, and I'm having difficulty finding a way to make a character that fits the following criteria:
1: fits into the group ( a paladin and a fighter/barbarian pugilist... don't ask how the two are cohesive, that type of talk infuriates these two guys, except when it pertains to my ideas.)
2: is fun for me to play.

FYI, I'm what the DMG2 refers to as an "outlier"
How is it possible for an outlier to work with a paladin and enjoy himself in FR?
Krusk
05-16-07, 02:29 PM play a caster of some sort, maybe a buffing one. the palidin and fighter will love you.
Matthew77
05-16-07, 02:30 PM I don't know what you mean by "outlier", but with the two existing characters, I'd start with a LG or NG Arcane caster as the idea for a character.
CCS
05-16-07, 03:03 PM We're starting a campaign very soon in forgotten realms, and I'm having difficulty finding a way to make a character that fits the following criteria:
1: fits into the group ( a paladin and a fighter/barbarian pugilist... don't ask how the two are cohesive, that type of talk infuriates these two guys, except when it pertains to my ideas.)
2: is fun for me to play.

FYI, I'm what the DMG2 refers to as an "outlier"
How is it possible for an outlier to work with a paladin and enjoy himself in FR?

1) Well, I don't know what an "outlier" is, but I'd suggest starting with definitly being good aligned. That'll take care of any issues involved with hanging with a paladin.
BTW, Do you know how your characters meet?

2) The only real stipulation on you during character creation is that you make something of "good" alignment.
So are you really trying to convince me that there's no character type/concept of LG/NG/CG that you could enjoy playing? If so you've failed your bluff check.....
Because as long as you're xG, ANY type of character will work.

(Personally I'd play a bard. On one hand I could be the herald of the paladin as we entered towns etc. On the other I could serve as the barbarian/pugalists anouncer ringside. And of course there's always the fact that I'm spreading the heroic tales of these two. Mechanicaly I'd have a wide array of skills and a few spells to back them up. But that's just me.)
Kouk
05-16-07, 03:12 PM "Outlier" as defined in the DMGII is basically a guy who plays weird, eccentric characters just to be different. If everyone goes left, he wants to go right.
He might like a CN kobold sorcerer/ranger raised by intelligent beavers. His feats are Skill Focus: Perform (dance) and EWP: Greatspear while he has a 10 STR and took TWF tree as a ranger. That sort of character.

Most difficult guy to deal with I think.
HassanNinkin
05-16-07, 04:39 PM glad you got me. I'm not difficult IMO, because I rarely ever get in the way of the group or cause fights. i respect the unspoken agreement that you don't mess with pc's. i'm more or less useless and provide comic relief.

After discussion with the other guys, I built a spellthief 2/ sorceror 5 focused on distraction and aggravation of enemy spellcasters. that should make me very effective at forcing the enemies to play the physical game which the other two PCs are great at. Now i need to pick a race. leaning toward halfling, but I might go with an elf or a gnome instead.
Phrennzy
05-16-07, 04:49 PM "Outlier" as defined in the DMGII is basically a guy who plays weird, eccentric characters just to be different. If everyone goes left, he wants to go right.
He might like a CN kobold sorcerer/ranger raised by intelligent beavers. His feats are Skill Focus: Perform (dance) and EWP: Greatspear while he has a 10 STR and took TWF tree as a ranger. That sort of character.

Most difficult guy to deal with I think.

Wow, if you truly fit that description, you are gonna have a tough time...

Unless you play a BARD! Yes! Bard! Zany spells! Weird instruments! Play your banjo while they melee, and yet you end up being useful! Your singing actually BUFFS them! Amazing! Plus, you have all the skills they don't!

Need a lock picked? Get the bard!
Need a chest searched? Get the bard!
Need undead turned? Run away!

I could go on and on, but in the end, the end is the same as the end. The bard is simply the best possible class for the outlier player in every group. It mixes fashion with versatility, combat readiness with clever...ishnessish.

In any case, try the bard. Once you go bard, you never go back.
DarkNick
05-16-07, 04:49 PM Oh, one of 'those' players.

God I hate outliers... All power to you if you are having fun and you get along with the other players, but man I can't stand playing with this sort of player. This is not to say I actually dislike them, more I dislike the playing style.

Sounds like you have come up with a reasonable toned down idea though, good luck with your game.

Maybe you can help me understand the mentality of an outlier. What is the attraction? Perhpas If I understood it better I would be more accepting.
Kouk
05-16-07, 05:23 PM The explanations in the DMGII sound pretty harsh, though I don't doubt they are correct in many instances.
geekling
05-16-07, 05:53 PM After discussion with the other guys, I built a spellthief 2/ sorceror 5

Just a quick note, spellthief is really one of those classes that does best just doing it straight and not mixing in any multiclassing.
But they are immense fun to play.

And you definiatly a gnome. Can never go wrong with a gnome spellthief.
Anansi
05-16-07, 06:08 PM And you definiatly a gnome. Can never go wrong with a gnome spellthief.
Well, actually you can, if you suck hard enough. If that's the case, though, you're better off playing the paladin's mount.
drasticale
05-16-07, 06:14 PM I guess I'm an Outlier, but I guess it is because I hate not having a piece of the spotlight.

I like melee type characters, but it is really hard to see one fighter w/longsword and shield as being different from the next.

So, I shoot for exotic weapons, strange codes of conduct, or perhaps a weird class concept. (Don't care what anyone says, my half-orc sorcerer with EWP: Greatspear was just plain mean... even worse when he got enlarge weapon spell)

It makes for an interesting roleplay, and as long as you aren't trying to be the subversive alignment class, you should be okay. I don't know how much more fun I've had with the orc-hating ranger, finally becoming friends with the half-orc.
wizarddog
05-17-07, 11:40 PM Just a quick note, spellthief is really one of those classes that does best just doing it straight and not mixing in any multiclassing.
But they are immense fun to play.

And you definiatly a gnome. Can never go wrong with a gnome spellthief.

And at 7th lv Spellthief you could absorb spells thrown at you.
pmurray@bigpond.com
05-17-07, 11:44 PM Easy. A cleric from the same order as the Paladin. The Paladin is part of the "martial" arm of the order, the cleric from the "clerical" arm.
Splendide
05-18-07, 12:14 AM Be the fighter/barbarian's Rogue or Bard manager and promoter. This adventuring lark is just to boost his profile. You get to talk up how he punched clean through a zombie's head and so forth.

You could even organise for him to be publicly ambushed by goblins just outside town, and scare them all off with a mean look and harsh word. An hour later, pay off the goblins outside town for doing that.

Send written challenges on his behalf for him to fight various noble's champions at local arenas. Remember to get a cut of the ticket sales and the book.

You two are working with the paladin so that he can learn a few of Fighter/Barbarian's fighting secrets. At least thats what you spread as rumours when the paladin isn't nearby. You could also mention that the paladin had a vision that he should help the mighty Fighter/Barbarian on his quests, and that Fighter/Barbarian in fact is divinely blessed by St Cuthbert or another appropriate god.
HassanNinkin
05-19-07, 06:30 PM so, the fighter/barb decided to change to a goliath druid/ stone guardian
I'm tempted to go straight spellthief, but the party is very physical right now, and the combination I have fills dual roles, primarily as sorceror, but with the skills needed to serve as rogue. The two level dip lets me steal spell effects, and the master spellthief feat means I can keep boosting the level of spells I can steal, plus the spellthief levels boost my CL.

DarkNick: The enjoyment of being an outlier is mostly metagame. I'm a chaotic, quirky person,and I take pleasure in stretching the expected game situation. I like the unexpected twists that I create in the game, for instance, when our Eberron group was delivering a sealed chest to a vault for safekeeping, my half-orc rogue/barbarian thought we were supposed to open it first and deliver the contents of the container, so he bashed it senselessly. When we got to the vault, he said "Was broke when we found"
The whole party had been angry at me for breaking the box until the payoff came when I delivered that line, perfectly in character, and the game had to stop because of soda spraying out of people's noses.
So, being an outlier is fun, but only when it's also fun for the other folks.
danielinthewolvesden
05-19-07, 09:42 PM Copper Dragon Dragon Shaman. Halfling?

Beguiler fits both skill-monkey and arcanist roles. Gnome.

Or get the Cloistered Cleric from UA, and ask DM to allow VoP (and a Holy symbol)and play a cleric who is completely non-martial.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HassanNinkin 05-16-07, 02:17 PM	We're starting a campaign very soon in forgotten realms, and I'm having difficulty finding a way to make a character that fits the following criteria: 1: fits into the group ( a paladin and a fighter/barbarian pugilist... don't ask how the two are cohesive, that type of talk infuriates these two guys, except when it pertains to my ideas.) 2: is fun for me to play. FYI, I'm what the DMG2 refers to as an "outlier" How is it possible for an outlier to work with a paladin and enjoy himself in FR?
Krusk 05-16-07, 02:29 PM	play a caster of some sort, maybe a buffing one. the palidin and fighter will love you.
Matthew77 05-16-07, 02:30 PM	I don't know what you mean by "outlier", but with the two existing characters, I'd start with a LG or NG Arcane caster as the idea for a character.
CCS 05-16-07, 03:03 PM	We're starting a campaign very soon in forgotten realms, and I'm having difficulty finding a way to make a character that fits the following criteria: 1: fits into the group ( a paladin and a fighter/barbarian pugilist... don't ask how the two are cohesive, that type of talk infuriates these two guys, except when it pertains to my ideas.) 2: is fun for me to play. FYI, I'm what the DMG2 refers to as an "outlier" How is it possible for an outlier to work with a paladin and enjoy himself in FR? 1) Well, I don't know what an "outlier" is, but I'd suggest starting with definitly being good aligned. That'll take care of any issues involved with hanging with a paladin. BTW, Do you know how your characters meet? 2) The only real stipulation on you during character creation is that you make something of "good" alignment. So are you really trying to convince me that there's no character type/concept of LG/NG/CG that you could enjoy playing? If so you've failed your bluff check..... Because as long as you're xG, ANY type of character will work. (Personally I'd play a bard. On one hand I could be the herald of the paladin as we entered towns etc. On the other I could serve as the barbarian/pugalists anouncer ringside. And of course there's always the fact that I'm spreading the heroic tales of these two. Mechanicaly I'd have a wide array of skills and a few spells to back them up. But that's just me.)
Kouk 05-16-07, 03:12 PM	"Outlier" as defined in the DMGII is basically a guy who plays weird, eccentric characters just to be different. If everyone goes left, he wants to go right. He might like a CN kobold sorcerer/ranger raised by intelligent beavers. His feats are Skill Focus: Perform (dance) and EWP: Greatspear while he has a 10 STR and took TWF tree as a ranger. That sort of character. Most difficult guy to deal with I think.
HassanNinkin 05-16-07, 04:39 PM	glad you got me. I'm not difficult IMO, because I rarely ever get in the way of the group or cause fights. i respect the unspoken agreement that you don't mess with pc's. i'm more or less useless and provide comic relief. After discussion with the other guys, I built a spellthief 2/ sorceror 5 focused on distraction and aggravation of enemy spellcasters. that should make me very effective at forcing the enemies to play the physical game which the other two PCs are great at. Now i need to pick a race. leaning toward halfling, but I might go with an elf or a gnome instead.
Phrennzy 05-16-07, 04:49 PM	"Outlier" as defined in the DMGII is basically a guy who plays weird, eccentric characters just to be different. If everyone goes left, he wants to go right. He might like a CN kobold sorcerer/ranger raised by intelligent beavers. His feats are Skill Focus: Perform (dance) and EWP: Greatspear while he has a 10 STR and took TWF tree as a ranger. That sort of character. Most difficult guy to deal with I think. Wow, if you truly fit that description, you are gonna have a tough time... Unless you play a BARD! Yes! Bard! Zany spells! Weird instruments! Play your banjo while they melee, and yet you end up being useful! Your singing actually BUFFS them! Amazing! Plus, you have all the skills they don't! Need a lock picked? Get the bard! Need a chest searched? Get the bard! Need undead turned? Run away! I could go on and on, but in the end, the end is the same as the end. The bard is simply the best possible class for the outlier player in every group. It mixes fashion with versatility, combat readiness with clever...ishnessish. In any case, try the bard. Once you go bard, you never go back.
DarkNick 05-16-07, 04:49 PM	Oh, one of 'those' players. God I hate outliers... All power to you if you are having fun and you get along with the other players, but man I can't stand playing with this sort of player. This is not to say I actually dislike them, more I dislike the playing style. Sounds like you have come up with a reasonable toned down idea though, good luck with your game. Maybe you can help me understand the mentality of an outlier. What is the attraction? Perhpas If I understood it better I would be more accepting.
Kouk 05-16-07, 05:23 PM	The explanations in the DMGII sound pretty harsh, though I don't doubt they are correct in many instances.
geekling 05-16-07, 05:53 PM	After discussion with the other guys, I built a spellthief 2/ sorceror 5 Just a quick note, spellthief is really one of those classes that does best just doing it straight and not mixing in any multiclassing. But they are immense fun to play. And you definiatly a gnome. Can never go wrong with a gnome spellthief.
Anansi 05-16-07, 06:08 PM	And you definiatly a gnome. Can never go wrong with a gnome spellthief. Well, actually you can, if you suck hard enough. If that's the case, though, you're better off playing the paladin's mount.
drasticale 05-16-07, 06:14 PM	I guess I'm an Outlier, but I guess it is because I hate not having a piece of the spotlight. I like melee type characters, but it is really hard to see one fighter w/longsword and shield as being different from the next. So, I shoot for exotic weapons, strange codes of conduct, or perhaps a weird class concept. (Don't care what anyone says, my half-orc sorcerer with EWP: Greatspear was just plain mean... even worse when he got enlarge weapon spell) It makes for an interesting roleplay, and as long as you aren't trying to be the subversive alignment class, you should be okay. I don't know how much more fun I've had with the orc-hating ranger, finally becoming friends with the half-orc.
wizarddog 05-17-07, 11:40 PM	Just a quick note, spellthief is really one of those classes that does best just doing it straight and not mixing in any multiclassing. But they are immense fun to play. And you definiatly a gnome. Can never go wrong with a gnome spellthief. And at 7th lv Spellthief you could absorb spells thrown at you.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-17-07, 11:44 PM	Easy. A cleric from the same order as the Paladin. The Paladin is part of the "martial" arm of the order, the cleric from the "clerical" arm.
Splendide 05-18-07, 12:14 AM	Be the fighter/barbarian's Rogue or Bard manager and promoter. This adventuring lark is just to boost his profile. You get to talk up how he punched clean through a zombie's head and so forth. You could even organise for him to be publicly ambushed by goblins just outside town, and scare them all off with a mean look and harsh word. An hour later, pay off the goblins outside town for doing that. Send written challenges on his behalf for him to fight various noble's champions at local arenas. Remember to get a cut of the ticket sales and the book. You two are working with the paladin so that he can learn a few of Fighter/Barbarian's fighting secrets. At least thats what you spread as rumours when the paladin isn't nearby. You could also mention that the paladin had a vision that he should help the mighty Fighter/Barbarian on his quests, and that Fighter/Barbarian in fact is divinely blessed by St Cuthbert or another appropriate god.
HassanNinkin 05-19-07, 06:30 PM	so, the fighter/barb decided to change to a goliath druid/ stone guardian I'm tempted to go straight spellthief, but the party is very physical right now, and the combination I have fills dual roles, primarily as sorceror, but with the skills needed to serve as rogue. The two level dip lets me steal spell effects, and the master spellthief feat means I can keep boosting the level of spells I can steal, plus the spellthief levels boost my CL. DarkNick: The enjoyment of being an outlier is mostly metagame. I'm a chaotic, quirky person,and I take pleasure in stretching the expected game situation. I like the unexpected twists that I create in the game, for instance, when our Eberron group was delivering a sealed chest to a vault for safekeeping, my half-orc rogue/barbarian thought we were supposed to open it first and deliver the contents of the container, so he bashed it senselessly. When we got to the vault, he said "Was broke when we found" The whole party had been angry at me for breaking the box until the payoff came when I delivered that line, perfectly in character, and the game had to stop because of soda spraying out of people's noses. So, being an outlier is fun, but only when it's also fun for the other folks.
danielinthewolvesden 05-19-07, 09:42 PM	Copper Dragon Dragon Shaman. Halfling? Beguiler fits both skill-monkey and arcanist roles. Gnome. Or get the Cloistered Cleric from UA, and ask DM to allow VoP (and a Holy symbol)and play a cleric who is completely non-martial.