Difficulty with character allignment... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Difficulty with character allignment... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JarathWulfenstein
01-06-06, 11:44 PM i have an idea for a character that's basically against stereotype, sort of fallen from grace or trying to rise to it. he's supposed to be inherintly evil like his race, but is inexplicably good and figths against his darkness, as well as that around him, though he retains some of his darker nature in combat.

anyway, i was thinking of acheiving this by applying both the Aasimar Half-Celestial and the Teifling Half-Fiend templates, btu ive been having a great difficulty finding a middle ground (such as a clawed, black winged Half-Celestial, which is too heavenly i think. or theres just using the Tiefling template but reversing the effects of the evil spell like abilities to their good counterparts....which might work but i really dont know). any help on this?

i was also considering makeing a fallen Aasimar who is attempting to attain Half-Celestial status to get under control of the fact that he's a natural werewolf.

whatever i do, im trying to hold his allignment to Chaotic Good. i know im open to play against the grain. but i dont want to go so far as to be unfair or over powered.

any help?
Draith
01-06-06, 11:46 PM Maybe you can have a half-illithid or half-vampire Aasimar.
JarathWulfenstein
01-06-06, 11:51 PM i considered the vampire, but it seems like anything that drinks blood really doesnt have much room to be good in any way...plus ive been rather partial to werewolves and have seen plenty of hooks with them being good (actually, i have considered a hook of a lycan/vampire hybrid)

but what's an Illithid?
ressurrector
01-07-06, 12:22 AM but what's an Illithid?

Also known as mindflayers.
Psychic, squid-headed critters that eat brains.
JarathWulfenstein
01-07-06, 12:28 AM uhh...no, i dont think an illithid....

so far im leaning towards the Aasimar werewolf. any ideas on combining Aasimar and Tiefling templates? or perhaps incorporating the destruction power into an Aasimar's listing? (ya, nto fair, but itd be cool...ignore otherwise... :P )
ressurrector
01-07-06, 01:00 AM uhh...no, i dont think an illithid....

so far im leaning towards the Aasimar werewolf. any ideas on combining Aasimar and Tiefling templates? or perhaps incorporating the destruction power into an Aasimar's listing? (ya, nto fair, but itd be cool...ignore otherwise... :P )

aasimar and tieflings, as far as racial modifiers, are fairly close to begin with.
Only a couple minor modifiers are different.
If you combine aspects from both (out of the Faerun Guide) you should be able to make a planetouched aasimar/tiefling fairly easily.
Though you'd have to talk with your DM.

It might be a bit easier to apply a half-demon template to an aasimar or a half-celestial template to a tiefling.
If you do that, you're looking at a LA of +5 though.
JarathWulfenstein
01-07-06, 01:12 AM ...thats actually not a bad idea, ill try that. though, as far as level adjustment goes, i guess im still a bit confused...if i level up the template through class levels, wouldnt it the LA +1 to get to a teifling and then go up at each Half-Celestial class level? it wouldnt be a whole +5 at once, would it? the templates i found go up by class and give different abilities depending.
ressurrector
01-07-06, 01:54 AM ...thats actually not a bad idea, ill try that. though, as far as level adjustment goes, i guess im still a bit confused...if i level up the template through class levels, wouldnt it the LA +1 to get to a teifling and then go up at each Half-Celestial class level? it wouldnt be a whole +5 at once, would it? the templates i found go up by class and give different abilities depending.

Level adjustment, in this case, is the total modifier to ECL.
Since there's no racial HD it makes this easy.

As an Aasimar half-demon (or half-celestial tiefling) your total LA is +5.
You begin play as a level 1 whatever, with the exp of a level 6 character but only one actual class level and one hit dice.

You have all the stats of a first level character, plus racial modifiers and are treated as a level 6 character.
Draith
01-07-06, 02:49 AM I would say that level adjustment of more than +3 seriously hinders character development. If you start with a level 1 character with +5 level adjust, by the time you get to level 2, characters with no level adjustment would already be at level 4, by the time a character with +5 level adjust gets to level 4, characters with no level adjust would be at level 8.
ressurrector
01-07-06, 03:32 AM I would say that level adjustment of more than +3 seriously hinders character development. If you start with a level 1 character with +5 level adjust, by the time you get to level 2, characters with no level adjustment would already be at level 4, by the time a character with +5 level adjust gets to level 4, characters with no level adjust would be at level 8.

You're getting it wrong.
it's 1=6
2=7
3=8
not 1:2 2:4 4:8, that's just wrong.
Draith
01-07-06, 07:02 AM You're getting it wrong.
it's 1=6
2=7
3=8
not 1:2 2:4 4:8, that's just wrong.
But it doesn't take 15,000 experience for a level 1 character with a level adjust of +5 to get to level 2, it takes 6,000 experience. The amount of experience it takes to gain a level is equal to the character's current level plus level adjustment and then multiplied by 1,000. A character with a level adjust of +5 needs a total of 6,000 exp to get to level 2, he needs a total of 13,000 exp to get to level 3, 21,000 exp to get to level 4, 30,000 exp to get to level 5, 40,000 exp to get to level 6, 51,000 exp to get to level 7, 63,000 exp to get to level 8, 76,000 exp to get to level 9, 100,000 exp to get to level 10, etc., so I was wrong about that part, by the time a character with +5 level adjust gets to level 4, a character without level adjust would be at level 7.
Milandros
01-07-06, 10:24 AM Draith, this is correct as long as the player starts with the appropriate experience for their ECL. In a game where all characters start with 0 XP or the same XP, you need to gain enough XP to make the total required for the level. For example, if a campaign starts at level one but allows an ECL 2 template, then the templated character will require 1000 + 2000 + 3000 = 6000XP to get his second class level.

In the example you give, assuming all PCs start at ECL 6, then it takes the usual 6000 XP to get to ECL level 7 for all characters - so yes, it only takes 6000 - but all the other PCs also only need 6000 to reach character level 7 as well. The gap will always remain +5.

The example you give is only true if the DM has deliberately given one PC 15,000 XP more than all the others (i.e is allowing them to create an ECL+5/level 6 equivalent character). In a game where I was supposed to start at level 1 with 0XP and an ECL6 character with a +5 template that started at 15,000XP was allowed, I'd be tempted to ask for a +5 "template" that exactly matched the abilities of a 5th level druid, for example....

To summarise, the XP table on page 22 of the PHB is effectively the XP required for each ECL, not just character level. ECLs do not bring free experience. In a game starting at level 10, each PC should start with 45,000XP - meaning that if he has an ECL 5 template, he only has 5 character levels.
A DM has the right to allow templates up to a certain level if he starts a level 1 game, but he's effectively allowing the player to take a "xp loan" which must be paid back before any levels can be gained.
Sae Cael Oanar
01-07-06, 11:42 AM i think half vampire would be even more interesting. it provides more than a just "im inherantly evil" its "i need to be evil to survive, but i wish i didnt" you help out an orphanage and then are forced to drain an orphan. its a beautiful thing.
JarathWulfenstein
01-07-06, 02:09 PM true...ill put more thought in to it.

as far as the whole LA and experience thing...i think im more confused now...
ressurrector
01-07-06, 05:55 PM as far as the whole LA and experience thing...i think im more confused now...

That's because some of the people "helping" you don't have much of an idea how it works either.
Here's the basic, for this specific instance.
you have LA+5
Whatever level your DM starts you at, subtract 5, this is your starting level.
You still have all the exp for your starting level, and require the same amount of exp to level up as any other character of your starting level.

LA+x means you are as powerfull, and should be concidered a chatacter with xlvls+your actual levels.

NOW NOBODY ELSE CONFUSE HIM!
Draith
01-07-06, 06:20 PM Oh right, I forgot that level 1 characters with level adjust don't start with level 1 characters without level adjust. I was just playing IWD2 where all characters start at level 1.
JarathWulfenstein
01-07-06, 11:18 PM ok, so explaine this (i found all these templates in the D&D archives as well as the article for gaining tmeplates mid campaign, so ive assumed they develop just like class levels, using little increments to eventually become the whole part) I am using templates from Savage Progressions: Half-Fiend, Level Adjusted Races, and Transition Classes ...

I'm a level one fighter, as well as being an aasimar with the basic racial abilities (+2 Cha; outsider; darkvision 60 ft; use "light"; +2 racial bonus on Listen/Spot; 2 resist to acid, cold, and elec., languages of Celestial and Common). i haven't attained a first class level as an aasimar yet (which would give me Wis +2; use "daylight"; resist 5 for acid/cold/elec, and a CR of +0 )

Besides this, i have taken a first level as a Half-Fiend (Dex +2, natural armor +1, 2 claws, darkvision 60ft, outsider, use "Darkness", and, since my character as only one HD i get a CR of +0 ).

with this, could someone give me my ECL and walk me through the process? if i can actually see each element work, then i can get it and apply it. ive just been getting answers up to this point. can i see system layed out right here? do i need 1000 EXP to gain either a second fighter level or my 1st aasimar class level (story is he has physical characteristics of a teifling, but morality of an aasimar and is trying to strngthen his good, celestial side so that he is never taken over by his fiend side)

so... :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JarathWulfenstein 01-06-06, 11:44 PM	i have an idea for a character that's basically against stereotype, sort of fallen from grace or trying to rise to it. he's supposed to be inherintly evil like his race, but is inexplicably good and figths against his darkness, as well as that around him, though he retains some of his darker nature in combat. anyway, i was thinking of acheiving this by applying both the Aasimar Half-Celestial and the Teifling Half-Fiend templates, btu ive been having a great difficulty finding a middle ground (such as a clawed, black winged Half-Celestial, which is too heavenly i think. or theres just using the Tiefling template but reversing the effects of the evil spell like abilities to their good counterparts....which might work but i really dont know). any help on this? i was also considering makeing a fallen Aasimar who is attempting to attain Half-Celestial status to get under control of the fact that he's a natural werewolf. whatever i do, im trying to hold his allignment to Chaotic Good. i know im open to play against the grain. but i dont want to go so far as to be unfair or over powered. any help?
Draith 01-06-06, 11:46 PM	Maybe you can have a half-illithid or half-vampire Aasimar.
JarathWulfenstein 01-06-06, 11:51 PM	i considered the vampire, but it seems like anything that drinks blood really doesnt have much room to be good in any way...plus ive been rather partial to werewolves and have seen plenty of hooks with them being good (actually, i have considered a hook of a lycan/vampire hybrid) but what's an Illithid?
ressurrector 01-07-06, 12:22 AM	but what's an Illithid? Also known as mindflayers. Psychic, squid-headed critters that eat brains.
JarathWulfenstein 01-07-06, 12:28 AM	uhh...no, i dont think an illithid.... so far im leaning towards the Aasimar werewolf. any ideas on combining Aasimar and Tiefling templates? or perhaps incorporating the destruction power into an Aasimar's listing? (ya, nto fair, but itd be cool...ignore otherwise... :P )
ressurrector 01-07-06, 01:00 AM	uhh...no, i dont think an illithid.... so far im leaning towards the Aasimar werewolf. any ideas on combining Aasimar and Tiefling templates? or perhaps incorporating the destruction power into an Aasimar's listing? (ya, nto fair, but itd be cool...ignore otherwise... :P ) aasimar and tieflings, as far as racial modifiers, are fairly close to begin with. Only a couple minor modifiers are different. If you combine aspects from both (out of the Faerun Guide) you should be able to make a planetouched aasimar/tiefling fairly easily. Though you'd have to talk with your DM. It might be a bit easier to apply a half-demon template to an aasimar or a half-celestial template to a tiefling. If you do that, you're looking at a LA of +5 though.
JarathWulfenstein 01-07-06, 01:12 AM	...thats actually not a bad idea, ill try that. though, as far as level adjustment goes, i guess im still a bit confused...if i level up the template through class levels, wouldnt it the LA +1 to get to a teifling and then go up at each Half-Celestial class level? it wouldnt be a whole +5 at once, would it? the templates i found go up by class and give different abilities depending.
ressurrector 01-07-06, 01:54 AM	...thats actually not a bad idea, ill try that. though, as far as level adjustment goes, i guess im still a bit confused...if i level up the template through class levels, wouldnt it the LA +1 to get to a teifling and then go up at each Half-Celestial class level? it wouldnt be a whole +5 at once, would it? the templates i found go up by class and give different abilities depending. Level adjustment, in this case, is the total modifier to ECL. Since there's no racial HD it makes this easy. As an Aasimar half-demon (or half-celestial tiefling) your total LA is +5. You begin play as a level 1 whatever, with the exp of a level 6 character but only one actual class level and one hit dice. You have all the stats of a first level character, plus racial modifiers and are treated as a level 6 character.
Draith 01-07-06, 02:49 AM	I would say that level adjustment of more than +3 seriously hinders character development. If you start with a level 1 character with +5 level adjust, by the time you get to level 2, characters with no level adjustment would already be at level 4, by the time a character with +5 level adjust gets to level 4, characters with no level adjust would be at level 8.
ressurrector 01-07-06, 03:32 AM	I would say that level adjustment of more than +3 seriously hinders character development. If you start with a level 1 character with +5 level adjust, by the time you get to level 2, characters with no level adjustment would already be at level 4, by the time a character with +5 level adjust gets to level 4, characters with no level adjust would be at level 8. You're getting it wrong. it's 1=6 2=7 3=8 not 1:2 2:4 4:8, that's just wrong.
Draith 01-07-06, 07:02 AM	You're getting it wrong. it's 1=6 2=7 3=8 not 1:2 2:4 4:8, that's just wrong. But it doesn't take 15,000 experience for a level 1 character with a level adjust of +5 to get to level 2, it takes 6,000 experience. The amount of experience it takes to gain a level is equal to the character's current level plus level adjustment and then multiplied by 1,000. A character with a level adjust of +5 needs a total of 6,000 exp to get to level 2, he needs a total of 13,000 exp to get to level 3, 21,000 exp to get to level 4, 30,000 exp to get to level 5, 40,000 exp to get to level 6, 51,000 exp to get to level 7, 63,000 exp to get to level 8, 76,000 exp to get to level 9, 100,000 exp to get to level 10, etc., so I was wrong about that part, by the time a character with +5 level adjust gets to level 4, a character without level adjust would be at level 7.
Milandros 01-07-06, 10:24 AM	Draith, this is correct as long as the player starts with the appropriate experience for their ECL. In a game where all characters start with 0 XP or the same XP, you need to gain enough XP to make the total required for the level. For example, if a campaign starts at level one but allows an ECL 2 template, then the templated character will require 1000 + 2000 + 3000 = 6000XP to get his second class level. In the example you give, assuming all PCs start at ECL 6, then it takes the usual 6000 XP to get to ECL level 7 for all characters - so yes, it only takes 6000 - but all the other PCs also only need 6000 to reach character level 7 as well. The gap will always remain +5. The example you give is only true if the DM has deliberately given one PC 15,000 XP more than all the others (i.e is allowing them to create an ECL+5/level 6 equivalent character). In a game where I was supposed to start at level 1 with 0XP and an ECL6 character with a +5 template that started at 15,000XP was allowed, I'd be tempted to ask for a +5 "template" that exactly matched the abilities of a 5th level druid, for example.... To summarise, the XP table on page 22 of the PHB is effectively the XP required for each ECL, not just character level. ECLs do not bring free experience. In a game starting at level 10, each PC should start with 45,000XP - meaning that if he has an ECL 5 template, he only has 5 character levels. A DM has the right to allow templates up to a certain level if he starts a level 1 game, but he's effectively allowing the player to take a "xp loan" which must be paid back before any levels can be gained.
Sae Cael Oanar 01-07-06, 11:42 AM	i think half vampire would be even more interesting. it provides more than a just "im inherantly evil" its "i need to be evil to survive, but i wish i didnt" you help out an orphanage and then are forced to drain an orphan. its a beautiful thing.
JarathWulfenstein 01-07-06, 02:09 PM	true...ill put more thought in to it. as far as the whole LA and experience thing...i think im more confused now...
ressurrector 01-07-06, 05:55 PM	as far as the whole LA and experience thing...i think im more confused now... That's because some of the people "helping" you don't have much of an idea how it works either. Here's the basic, for this specific instance. you have LA+5 Whatever level your DM starts you at, subtract 5, this is your starting level. You still have all the exp for your starting level, and require the same amount of exp to level up as any other character of your starting level. LA+x means you are as powerfull, and should be concidered a chatacter with xlvls+your actual levels. NOW NOBODY ELSE CONFUSE HIM!
Draith 01-07-06, 06:20 PM	Oh right, I forgot that level 1 characters with level adjust don't start with level 1 characters without level adjust. I was just playing IWD2 where all characters start at level 1.
JarathWulfenstein 01-07-06, 11:18 PM	ok, so explaine this (i found all these templates in the D&D archives as well as the article for gaining tmeplates mid campaign, so ive assumed they develop just like class levels, using little increments to eventually become the whole part) I am using templates from Savage Progressions: Half-Fiend, Level Adjusted Races, and Transition Classes ... I'm a level one fighter, as well as being an aasimar with the basic racial abilities (+2 Cha; outsider; darkvision 60 ft; use "light"; +2 racial bonus on Listen/Spot; 2 resist to acid, cold, and elec., languages of Celestial and Common). i haven't attained a first class level as an aasimar yet (which would give me Wis +2; use "daylight"; resist 5 for acid/cold/elec, and a CR of +0 ) Besides this, i have taken a first level as a Half-Fiend (Dex +2, natural armor +1, 2 claws, darkvision 60ft, outsider, use "Darkness", and, since my character as only one HD i get a CR of +0 ). with this, could someone give me my ECL and walk me through the process? if i can actually see each element work, then i can get it and apply it. ive just been getting answers up to this point. can i see system layed out right here? do i need 1000 EXP to gain either a second fighter level or my 1st aasimar class level (story is he has physical characteristics of a teifling, but morality of an aasimar and is trying to strngthen his good, celestial side so that he is never taken over by his fiend side) so... :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: