Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gadren 04-03-07, 08:23 PM	So, in this campaign I'm playing in, my character is this Merlin-eque wizard. Around level 5, my party rescued this 16-year old, who I later discovered to be the son of Pelor, destined to deliver the world from darkness, but I have to mentor him in the right direction. He has a strength of 25, and 20 in all his other attributes. He has quickly risen to a level 5 paladin (The party is now 9). His salient divine abilities usually only manifest from time to time. He's kind of like Hercules + young King Arthur + Jesus. He started off obedient enough, but he's becoming a bit of a brat! (Not that I'm surprised, he is a teenaged quasi-deity.) He's always showing off and drawing dangerous amounts of attention to himself, he shows no common sense, he stills does what I ask him but the other day he just up and left town without telling the party and we had to track him down to the evil-aligned kingdom that wants him executed where he is trying to preach in the streets! I told him I'd have to discipline him a bit when we get back home to Microrut village (next session). But how do I discipline a god? In general, how do I keep him "in line"?
LeuktheSavior 04-03-07, 08:40 PM	Cater to the boys love of thrill seeking and idiotic tromps through dangerous territory. what is his ECL? if its low enough that there are nonepic things that are a threat to him, and your characters would have a knowledge of (a particularly violent dragon, A notable villain of some power, etc. etc. etc.) steer the story to a confrontation with said powerful creature/individual.
stargate525 04-03-07, 08:58 PM	If he's got a wisdom of 20, he shouldn't be doing really rash stuff... berate him a bit and tell him that he's better than going off and getting himself killed, for starters.
Gadren 04-03-07, 09:06 PM	Cater to the boys love of thrill seeking and idiotic tromps through dangerous territory. what is his ECL? if its low enough that there are nonepic things that are a threat to him, and your characters would have a knowledge of (a particularly violent dragon, A notable villain of some power, etc. etc. etc.) steer the story to a confrontation with said powerful creature/individual. He goes adventuring with us already. I don't know what is ECL would really be. Most things that are a threat to us are a threat to him, because besides he really high ability scores right now thats about all he's got. Sometimes his divine abilities kick in, but its usually part of some preplanned part of the adventure (i.e. cut scene), and he always collapses into unconsciousness for a couple of days afterwards.
Gadren 04-03-07, 09:09 PM	If he's got a wisdom of 20, he shouldn't be doing really rash stuff... berate him a bit and tell him that he's better than going off and getting himself killed, for starters. Yeah, been there, done that. Need something better than berating. I was thinking of taking a page from mythology and having him clean all the stables in town to teach him a little humility, for starters... You're right, he *shouldn't* be that dumb with a wis of 20, but I guess he may be wise in some areas and not in others. So far, most of his lapses in judgement seemed to be caused by pretty girl NPCs...
DyloniusFunk 04-03-07, 09:15 PM	He goes adventuring with us already. I don't know what is ECL would really be. Most things that are a threat to us are a threat to him, because besides he really high ability scores right now thats about all he's got. Sometimes his divine abilities kick in, but its usually part of some preplanned part of the adventure (i.e. cut scene), and he always collapses into unconsciousness for a couple of days afterwards. Do these powers end up saving the day? Because it sounds to me like the dm is developing a DMPC for himself and making you guys be the babysitters.
Edymnion 04-03-07, 09:34 PM	You could always try to take away his powers. Whip up an item (or find/buy/whatever) that gives him a penalty on his stats (at least his physical ones) to bring them back down to "normal" (10), and surpresses his magical powers (anti-magic works well here, but you'd have to specially rig it with the DM to let the item's own powers work in the AMF they generate to keep the stat penalty up). The idea, make him normal, make him learn what normal life is like. He can't just go run off and rely on his powers to pull him out of trouble. Failing that as a long term solution, enchant his bed with an Antimagic Field and send him to his room.
danielinthewolvesden 04-03-07, 10:09 PM	Who is running this marvel?:confused:
Matthew77 04-03-07, 10:42 PM	"With great power comes great responsibility"? Then wait until he messes up and someone important to him dies because of his mistakes. It worked for Spiderman...
Arturius1 04-03-07, 10:48 PM	The only way to bring him in line is to suspend his powers. And only the gods can do this. Got this from an episode of Star Trek Voyager. Q's son was supposed to be this golden boy that brings order to the continuum. He's the only Q ever "born" so it's easy to brand him as a savior, but he's nothing but a pest. So he's plopped onto a starfleet vessel, stripped of his powers, and told to emulate the humans (mostly humans on board). He has 7 days to get it right or spend eternity as an amoeba. While I don't think you can do that on your own, I'm sure Papa Pelor would lend a hand. (Obviously 7 days isn't enough, but you get the idea.)
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:00 AM	Do these powers end up saving the day? Because it sounds to me like the dm is developing a DMPC for himself and making you guys be the babysitters. No, the DM is handling it pretty well actually. The first divine power that seemed to manifest was when were visited by another quasi deity who could not see Arturius (Pelor Jr.) though at the time we weren't sure why (since said quasi d. could see him before and after the event). This came in useful when we needed to hide ourselves from a deific emmisary (or whatever they're called) of Vecna, and I asked the boy to remember that time before and try to do it again. The one other time the powers manifested was when we visited a town and they didn't believe he was a savior sent from Pelor, and he suddenly had a divine surge of power as a sign.
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:02 AM	You could always try to take away his powers. Whip up an item (or find/buy/whatever) that gives him a penalty on his stats (at least his physical ones) to bring them back down to "normal" (10), and surpresses his magical powers (anti-magic works well here, but you'd have to specially rig it with the DM to let the item's own powers work in the AMF they generate to keep the stat penalty up). The idea, make him normal, make him learn what normal life is like. He can't just go run off and rely on his powers to pull him out of trouble. Failing that as a long term solution, enchant his bed with an Antimagic Field and send him to his room. I was actually thinking of this at least for his strength. I don't think anti-magic will work, but maybe some good old-fashioned lead weights strapped to him will both make his load heavier for his punishment yet make him stronger in the long run.
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:04 AM	Who is running this marvel?:confused: I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Did you mean, "Who is running this, Marvel?" as in this is like a Marvel comic? Or are you refering to the boy as a marvel? Or maybe the campaign?
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:05 AM	The only way to bring him in line is to suspend his powers. And only the gods can do this. Got this from an episode of Star Trek Voyager. Q's son was supposed to be this golden boy that brings order to the continuum. He's the only Q ever "born" so it's easy to brand him as a savior, but he's nothing but a pest. So he's plopped onto a starfleet vessel, stripped of his powers, and told to emulate the humans (mostly humans on board). He has 7 days to get it right or spend eternity as an amoeba. While I don't think you can do that on your own, I'm sure Papa Pelor would lend a hand. (Obviously 7 days isn't enough, but you get the idea.) I could try pray to Pelor, but for whatever reason he has, for the most part he seems to avoid getting directly involved.
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:08 AM	"With great power comes great responsibility"? Then wait until he messes up and someone important to him dies because of his mistakes. It worked for Spiderman... When I was first training the lad to be a hero, I used the line "No, not "try"! Do, or do not, there is no "try"!" and got attacked... by the DM... via a d20 to the forehead...
Fireclave 04-04-07, 04:22 AM	Sounds like he will eventually mess up big time. And when that that happens, have the bard tell him a story (Perform Oratory). A true story (Knowledge History enbellished with a bit of Bluff). A tragic story about a tragic hero. A hero that was just like Hay'seuss Arthurcles: as good as he was flawed. A story about how that hero let those flaws destory him and eveything he held dear. Animate the story with illusions to really bring the point home. If he's truely destined to become a Good god, he should see the error of his ways, or at least understand the point you are trying to get across. Matthew77 is on to something with his spiderman suggestion.
Voran 04-04-07, 06:34 AM	Do these powers end up saving the day? Because it sounds to me like the dm is developing a DMPC for himself and making you guys be the babysitters. That was my thought too. Threaten to leave him at a church of Pelor. "You knock this **** off young man, or I'm leaving you at your father's house."
DracoPhoenix 04-04-07, 07:05 AM	I could try pray to Pelor, but for whatever reason he has, for the most part he seems to avoid getting directly involved. Hmm, you'd better get a shed load of xp for the rp of getting an immature child deity to behave when you've been given no ability to reign in the brat and the father is somewhat absentee. Provided of course the lil sod doesn't destroy the world when he's grounded for the first time.
OravennasBrother 04-04-07, 09:58 AM	But how do I discipline a god? Carefully
Tyraxus 04-04-07, 10:06 AM	I like the "bard tells the story of a tragic hero idea." Alternatively, if it gets bad enough, he's a level 5 paladin with 20 Con. He's got 75 HP at most. You're a level 9 group. If Pelor won't come down to talk to him, send him up to have a face-to-face with Daddy, then raise him. (NOTE: Check his type first, you don't want to doom the world to darkness if he's a true outsider. Sounds like he's a native outsider, though, but just be sure.) Yeah, it costs 5k gold, but isn't it worth 5k to rein in a demigod? Making him clean stables sounds like a good idea, but remember that the Agean Stables were supposed to be impossible to clean. A normal stable wouldn't have given Heracles any trouble at all. You said most of his stupidity seems caused by "pretty girl NPCs" right? Betrothe him to a strong-willed Priestess of Pelor who plays up the "saviour of the world" angle.
DrMorganes 04-04-07, 10:12 AM	When I was first training the lad to be a hero, I used the line "No, not "try"! Do, or do not, there is no "try"!" and got attacked... by the DM... via a d20 to the forehead... *snicker* And who says called shots have no place in D&D?
ShadowDragon8685 04-04-07, 10:51 AM	You let him do something stupid. Let him get killed. Have him Ressurected, then tell him that's what happens when party members wander off - especially arrogant paladins who stick their preach up in where it ain't welcome.
Radijs 04-04-07, 11:34 AM	Another idea, partially nicked from previous posters, try telling him the consequences of his actions. Example for when he went off to preach in the streets. Those people who listened to him where probably rounded up and executed to prevent a possible uprising in the future. In his carelessness he is now directly responsible for the deaths of at least a dozen people and probably more.
Praedoran 04-04-07, 11:49 AM	There's only one thing that can rule supreme over a rebellious teenaged son of Pelor... A hot goth chick. Yea. That's how I'd do it. Oh, and make her clingy too, to keep him on that short leash. Just be careful if she breaks his heart... Perhaps Nerull has a daughter? -That- would make life very interesting.
Comus 04-04-07, 12:07 PM	I suggest a blanket party. Wait until he's sleeping, toss a blanket over his head, beat him with socks full of silver pieces until he's knocked out, and then never refer to it again - pretend it never happened. Repeat every time he needs 'discipline'. Note: In some cases, blanket parties lead to psychotic breakdown. Consult a physician before using. Not recommended for those three years of age or younger, pregnant women, or those with terminal bonitis. Some side effects include brusing, large amounts of subdual damage, and changes in behavior.
Edymnion 04-04-07, 01:06 PM	You let him do something stupid. Let him get killed.Oh yeah, that'll go over well. Your god comes down, says "I entrust you with the care and upbringing of my son", and what do you do? You get him killed. I can just imagine daddy dearest coming down with a "WTF do you think you're doing, MORTAL?" :D
Tyraxus 04-04-07, 01:23 PM	There's only one thing that can rule supreme over a rebellious teenaged son of Pelor... A hot goth chick. Yea. That's how I'd do it. Oh, and make her clingy too, to keep him on that short leash. Just be careful if she breaks his heart... Perhaps Nerull has a daughter? -That- would make life very interesting. That's an awesome adventure idea. Hey, what's that over there? *yoink*
Ocom 04-04-07, 01:30 PM	Smash his face, inflict some wounds, do some damage! Let him know of your deep-deep TOUGH LOVE for him.
danielinthewolvesden 04-04-07, 02:38 PM	I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Did you mean, "Who is running this, Marvel?" as in this is like a Marvel comic? Or are you refering to the boy as a marvel? Or maybe the campaign? Who is running this character?
green_yawgmoth 04-04-07, 02:44 PM	The only way to bring him in line is to suspend his powers. And only the gods can do this. Got this from an episode of Star Trek Voyager. Q's son was supposed to be this golden boy that brings order to the continuum. He's the only Q ever "born" so it's easy to brand him as a savior, but he's nothing but a pest. So he's plopped onto a starfleet vessel, stripped of his powers, and told to emulate the humans (mostly humans on board). He has 7 days to get it right or spend eternity as an amoeba. While I don't think you can do that on your own, I'm sure Papa Pelor would lend a hand. (Obviously 7 days isn't enough, but you get the idea.)Q2 is the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. My suggestion would be to do exactly what the continuum did; have him stripped of his powers until he learns some decency. Edit: Hot goth chick idea is also very awesome. Especially when she cheats on him like the skank she is, and he turns emo. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Praedoran 04-04-07, 02:59 PM	If he turns Emo you might have to worry about the rest of your party wanting to kill him though. "I wish my grass was Emo, then it would cut itself."
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:32 PM	Who is running this character? Its my "cohort" (though I never took Leadership). Sometimes I play him, sometimes the DM plays him, whatever works better at the time. Like, when I first chose a paladin trainer for him and turned the lad over for a week (being a Wizard I can't teach him to be a paladin, and the DM requires trainers to level up for the first few levels of a new class) the DM had me RP him while he RPed the trainer. When I'm talking to or otherwise interacting with the lad, the DM plays him.
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:35 PM	That was my thought too. Threaten to leave him at a church of Pelor. "You knock this **** off young man, or I'm leaving you at your father's house." Yeah, except my character accepted the responsibility of molding him in the first place, and he's the last hope for humanity...
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:37 PM	Alternatively, if it gets bad enough, he's a level 5 paladin with 20 Con. He's got 75 HP at most. You're a level 9 group. If Pelor won't come down to talk to him, send him up to have a face-to-face with Daddy, then raise him. (NOTE: Check his type first, you don't want to doom the world to darkness if he's a true outsider. Sounds like he's a native outsider, though, but just be sure.) Yeah, it costs 5k gold, but isn't it worth 5k to rein in a demigod? Uhm, I think there might be some trust issues in the future if I KILL HIM....
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:38 PM	Hmm, you'd better get a shed load of xp for the rp of getting an immature child deity to behave when you've been given no ability to reign in the brat and the father is somewhat absentee. Provided of course the lil sod doesn't destroy the world when he's grounded for the first time. The DM is quite generous with rewards.
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:41 PM	You let him do something stupid. Let him get killed. Have him Ressurected, then tell him that's what happens when party members wander off - especially arrogant paladins who stick their preach up in where it ain't welcome. But I'm also trying to build up the lad's reputation so the people will aid us when it comes time to de-throne the BBEG; I'm more worried about him doing something else stupid to screw that up.
Gadren 04-04-07, 04:43 PM	Smash his face, inflict some wounds, do some damage! Let him know of your deep-deep TOUGH LOVE for him. I suggest a blanket party. Wait until he's sleeping, toss a blanket over his head, beat him with socks full of silver pieces until he's knocked out, and then never refer to it again - pretend it never happened. Repeat every time he needs 'discipline'. Note: In some cases, blanket parties lead to psychotic breakdown. Consult a physician before using. Not recommended for those three years of age or younger, pregnant women, or those with terminal bonitis. Some side effects include brusing, large amounts of subdual damage, and changes in behavior. ...
Tyraxus 04-04-07, 04:44 PM	Uhm, I think there might be some trust issues in the future if I KILL HIM.... Why? Remember, in a world where death is a temporary annoyance rather that a permanant problem, people wouldn't view it the same way as we do. Yeah it hurts, yeah it's an inconvenience, but really, as long as you're bringing him back (and let him know beforehand what you're doing, so he doesn't think you're just stabbing him in the back for fun; something like "Okay, we're fed up with your crap, you're gonna go talk to your dad for a few days. Hold still, this'll probably hurt." *splorch*), there's not a lot of loss to it. He loses a level, but you're wanting to punish him anyway, aren't you?
Comus 04-04-07, 04:54 PM	Gadren, stop with the multi-posting. You've got six posts in a row there, a frankly silly number.
Gadren 04-04-07, 06:01 PM	Gadren, stop with the multi-posting. You've got six posts in a row there, a frankly silly number. I'm trying to reply to everyone..
calronmoonflower 04-04-07, 06:04 PM	I'm trying to reply to everyone.. click on the little http://boards1.wizards.com/images/buttons/dnd/multiquote_off.gif button next to the quote button for every post you want to replay to. You will get all those in quote boxes if you do that and hit reply afterward.
Gadren 04-04-07, 06:48 PM	click on the little http://boards1.wizards.com/images/buttons/dnd/multiquote_off.gif button next to the quote button for every post you want to replay to. You will get all those in quote boxes if you do that and hit reply afterward. Oooooh! I feel dumb now.
danielinthewolvesden 04-04-07, 07:25 PM	Its my "cohort" (though I never took Leadership). Sometimes I play him, sometimes the DM plays him, whatever works better at the time. Like, when I first chose a paladin trainer for him and turned the lad over for a week (being a Wizard I can't teach him to be a paladin, and the DM requires trainers to level up for the first few levels of a new class) the DM had me RP him while he RPed the trainer. When I'm talking to or otherwise interacting with the lad, the DM plays him. Super powerful DMPC? And your problem is disciplining the NPC?:rolleyes:
dragonseth 04-04-07, 08:24 PM	Hmm. Very interesting. I definitely think Spiderman will be your saving grace, or at least something similar. Does he care deeply for anyone in the party? Just somehow set it up so that the party fights something horrendously strong, and said person ends up dying, probably graphically and dramatically, to save him. Like, readied action to jump in front of an attack or something. Just make sure the attack kills the person, so the message gets across.
Voldar_Mecorthio 04-04-07, 09:05 PM	Geas. 'nuff said.
icuall 04-05-07, 11:01 AM	Do you have a cleric of Pelor in your group? If not find one and have him commune with Pelor to ask what to do...how to discipline, what to teach him, what your duties are, etc.
Gadren 04-05-07, 04:27 PM	Do you have a cleric of Pelor in your group? If not find one and have him commune with Pelor to ask what to do...how to discipline, what to teach him, what your duties are, etc. Our group is, unfortunately, cleric-less. I wasn't very specific before because it didn't seem relevant at the time, but the party make up is: -Fighter 9 -Bard 2/ Diviner 3/ Ultimate Magus 4 (That's me!) -Beguiler 8 (with Fighter 6 cohort) -Pelor Jr. (Monk 2/ Paladin 4) My character actually takes care of most of the healing (using bard spells and the Arcane Disciple (healing domain)feat).
mcnoo 04-05-07, 07:47 PM	Just sigh, shake your head and say "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed." If problems persist, step it up to a full blown "You've let me down, you've let your father down, you've let the fate of the world down, but worst of all, you've let yourself down." then look slightly tearful and leave the room.
Comus 04-05-07, 08:08 PM	Just sigh, shake your head and say "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed." If problems persist, step it up to a full blown "You've let me down, you've let your father down, you've let the fate of the world down, but worst of all, you've let yourself down." then look slightly tearful and leave the room. Alternatively, "Why do you hate freedom?"
Gadren 04-05-07, 08:48 PM	Just sigh, shake your head and say "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed." If problems persist, step it up to a full blown "You've let me down, you've let your father down, you've let the fate of the world down, but worst of all, you've let yourself down." then look slightly tearful and leave the room. OMG thats what my mom does! Why didn't I think of that? Here I am, asking advice from you guys when I should be asking the experts: Jewish moms. :D
DyloniusFunk 04-05-07, 10:56 PM	OMG thats what my mom does! Why didn't I think of that? Here I am, asking advice from you guys when I should be asking the experts: Jewish moms. :D It's not a Jewish mom thing, i think all of us hated being told that our parents were 'disappointed' in us. Whenever i got in trouble with my dad i allways wished he would get angry and not say he was disappointed, that was much worse.
Voran 04-06-07, 07:39 AM	There's only one thing that can rule supreme over a rebellious teenaged son of Pelor... A hot goth chick. Yea. That's how I'd do it. Oh, and make her clingy too, to keep him on that short leash. Just be careful if she breaks his heart... Perhaps Nerull has a daughter? -That- would make life very interesting. Awesome. :) Heck, look in this Player To Do forum and there's a thread on a female drow with a great description of Lloth, that particular description would be a good match for Dawson, I mean Pelor Jr.
Aeromus 04-06-07, 09:58 AM	So far, most of his lapses in judgment seemed to be caused by pretty girl NPCs... Well regardless of wisdom, intelligence or even charisma, a pretty girl makes all teen boys go straight to 5's across the board.
mcnoo 04-06-07, 11:03 AM	Or of course there's the other, more honest set of ways to show your disapproval. "I'm not angry...I'm f***ing livid." "You've let Pelor down, you've let the fate of the world down, you've let yourself down, but worst of all, you've let ME down."
Gadren 04-06-07, 02:28 PM	Well regardless of wisdom, intelligence or even charisma, a pretty girl makes all teen boys go straight to 5's across the board. Well, so far my scientific research on the matter has been thwarted on all fronts, but I suspect that women's breasts (at any age) are secretly special variations of touch of idiocy spell-trigger items that work like a gaze attack. Also, they are all secretly trained as Enchanters from age 13, true story.
mcnoo 04-06-07, 02:39 PM	Well, so far my scientific research on the matter has been thwarted on all fronts, but I suspect that women's breasts (at any age) are secretly special variations of touch of idiocy spell-trigger items that work like a gaze attack. I think I'm immune to the gaze attack by now, but the touch attack floors me every time.
obrysii 04-06-07, 03:03 PM	Also, they are all secretly trained as Enchanters from age 13, true story. Beguilers, actually. On topic: honestly, I think the "watch the baby demigod!" thing is a rather interesting take on things. I once did something similar, although the PCs had no idea who the kid really was. They got stuck watching over a 15-year old kid who literally was the definition of incompetent. He was more of an annoyance and a burden, as the PCs had to make sure he stayed out of trouble. Then, during a scene where the PCs pretty much couldn't go forward without a massive fight, he appeared and presented himself as his true self: the true avatar of the only living deity of the world. His disguise was a test to see if the PCs were truely worthy of their place as the 'chosen ones' ... their gift? Access to extremely powerful artifacts (fully powered were equivalent to +16 weapons).