Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omeg 09-23-04, 03:00 PM	I'm sure some of you have lived through this before: A DM that attempts to counter abilities. To tie this to my late problem; our party was chasing a band of Drow that were supposedly scouts doing recon on Daggerdale in preparation for invation (Yes, Year of risen Elfkin, how did you guess?). Eventually we caught up with one that we killed, but the rest of the scouting party heard us and made a run for it, we chased (stupid, I know) after which we were ambushed by the Drow reinforcements. (Gee, didn't see that coming *thwap self for stupidity*) Anyway, the drow in question decided to talk to us first before deciding on wether or not they were going to attack us. My Elemental Archon managed to withdraw a Daylight Rune from his pocket during the conversation and when the Drow finally gave the order to "Kill them all" I pressed the rune and simultaniously used my control flame to flare the fires of my elemental form into a pillar while shouting some arrogant things. The Effect was quite daunting, the daylight spell went off and my character burst into a brilliant column of flame (gotto love your occasional good rolls) while "You, dare and oppose Me?! Mortals?!" echod through the vicinity. (Yes, Rahn thinks rather highly of himself). Anyway, my DM (being the cool guy that he is) decided that the drow were so stunned by my sudden explosion that he'd give us a surprise round. Now, most of you know how surprise rounds are; you throw everything you have at them. A lot of the members in my party depend on sneak attacks and initiative so having a walking torch in the party that tends to draw attention helps slightly. The surprise round went decent, we got off fair damage though nothing got killed, then, with Alania (rogue, divine seeker) having high initiative she got off a second volley before most of the drow had recovered we were decently confident that the damage dealth in the surprise round would be enough for us to survive and win. The first thing that happens is that the druid Alania and the deepwood sniper had concentrated their fire on healed everything off (quickened) and then proceeded to cast harm on Alania, bringing her to three hp. (ouch) Then a Shade (see the Forgotten realms campain setting) stepped out of the shadows and dispelled my daylight spell in such a way that the backlash dealth sufficient damage to me to take me to 16 hp. Then three fighters stepped out and charged me while the other clerlic was ignored. Now the DM knows me and Alania are the most experienced RP-ers (and thus most likely to pull stunts) but we were incapacitated in the first round of combat (not to mention that said druid cast another quickened heal not long after) Now, I know how to abuse my skills, I can give runes to my memphits and load myself up with nothing but lame spells, but I don't do that, because it's not fun, yet it seems to be the only way to survive encounters like these. (we would all have perished if our Psionic warrior hadn't managed to pull off a lucky Mind blast that stunned the two big guys) Tell me, am I just whining and should I abuse my skills to the max or am I just doing something wrong?
Big__Chops 09-23-04, 03:09 PM	I say that you are doing a good job and that you should talk to your dm about your concerns. Tell him that you dont want to resort to abuseing your powers as it takes away YOUR ENJOYMENT. Wait a session and see if things improve. If not Call him an azs weasle and find a new DM.
Cymraegmorgan 09-23-04, 03:10 PM	I do not think it is DM abuse for him to have Drow NPCs prepared to counter sunlight while scouting the daylight world. Sounds like your DM was using an old Cavalry tactic: Recon in force. Scout, then draw the enemy back to the heavy armor. Your DM seems to be thinking things out and using all he can, so use the skills you have. It is not an abuse of your PC's capabilities to use them to maximum effect to stay alive.
Omeg 09-23-04, 03:19 PM	Time to equip my Memphits like suicide squads then, runes always target the person that touches them, but I'm sure that spells like Firestorm and Incendary Cloud (SPELLING!!!) will work just fine when I give them to my Memphit and tell him to "Fly to the enemy and then press the rune" Poor... poor... drow
jnrhayz 09-23-04, 03:43 PM	Well, you could always try using better tactics... Instead of just running after people, get the DWS(I assume he is the scout) some boots of striding and springing or something that boosts speed. (Boots with expeditious retreat only cost 4000 gold[Spell Level 1 * Casting Level 1 * 2000 * 2 - but that is a DM decision because boots of striding and springing cost 5500, although they do have two benefits and not just one]). Sorry about the tanget. Then have him move ahead of the party and scout. Report back to the party the size of the enemy and how they are positioned. Things like this should reduce the ambushes you run into blindly. Of course there is an equal chance the scout gets killed, but as I play a ranger in my game I just remember the scouts code "Better part of valor! Better part of valor!" or if you like... RUN!
Ogmug 09-23-04, 04:44 PM	..... The first thing that happens is that the druid Alania and the deepwood sniper had concentrated their fire on healed everything off (quickened) and then proceeded to cast harm on Alania, bringing her to three hp. (ouch) Then a Shade (see the Forgotten realms campain setting) stepped out of the shadows and dispelled my daylight spell in such a way that the backlash dealth sufficient damage to me to take me to 16 hp. Then three fighters stepped out and charged me while the other clerlic was ignored. Now the DM knows me and Alania are the most experienced RP-ers (and thus most likely to pull stunts) but we were incapacitated in the first round of combat (not to mention that said druid cast another quickened heal not long after) .... Are you sure you weren't fighting a cleric? (possible typo here?). Because Druids don't get harm. Harm Necromancy Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6 Otherwise, I think you shoudl use your abilities to the best of your CHARACTER'S abilities. Just because you know how to break something, doesn't mean your character does :P
eRaz0r 09-23-04, 04:59 PM	A Quickened Heal/Harm is a 10th level spell. How is that not broken ? Unless she's got a Rod of Quicken, then of course that's just dandy...
jnrhayz 09-23-04, 05:09 PM	Well, if there was a Rod of Quicken it should have been in the treasure...
Kingside_Bishop 09-23-04, 05:56 PM	He didn't necessarily have to use a "Heal" spell to "heal" himself, it might have been a quickened Cure spell. If it was a heal spell, ERazor's right: that is broken Look at it this way: in order for a group of enemies to deal that much damage to your party, they must have had an equal CR to your party (because at the end, there was only one man standing, which means the parties were roughly even in power). Now reconstruct the enemy party: 1 Druid/Cleric 1 (?) Drow Scout 1 Shade 3 Drow Fighters ... and anythining else we don't know about Assign them levels that add up to your party's CR, and that you think are reasonable (fighters should be lower than scout, which should be lower than druid/cleric, shade's CR is already set). Now, looking at the enemy party's abilities. Do you think they could do what they did to you? If you think that they could, then your party just screwed up really bad on tactics (which you did anyway). If not, then they either got really lucky (unlikely with the spells they were using), or you're DM increased their power. The abilities of your reconstructed party should tell you how much of an increase.
primemover003 09-23-04, 06:12 PM	Well unless I'm mistaken it sounds like they're playing 3.0... the Harm spell brought the rogue to 3 hp... were metamagic rods around in 3.0? (I don't remember them in T&B). I don't see the dispelling of your Daylight spell a bad DM call. Drow would regularly have the ability to counter light spells. You got suckered into an ambush... recon in force is a NICE way to deal with cocky adventurers:devil:
Omeg 09-23-04, 06:20 PM	I don't see the dispelling of your Daylight spell a bad DM call. Drow would regularly have the ability to counter light spells. You got suckered into an ambush... recon in force is a NICE way to deal with cocky adventurers:devil: True, I could have dealth with a dispel, but the dispel just happened to deal me 70 damage as well, there's creative dispelling for you :p And yes, we are using 3.0 nobody felt like buying new books after everyone just got their own player's handbook. As for head on, I'm afraid that's my PC's problem, my Elemental Archon has a superiority compex that the rest of my party is having a *very* hard time dealing with, but then, as they say "He's good at drawing enemy fire"
Omeg 09-23-04, 06:23 PM	Are you sure you weren't fighting a cleric? (possible typo here?). Because Druids don't get harm. Indeed, well, he introduced himself as a Druid, though I guess he could have been lying of course, I didn't see him shapeshift.
primemover003 09-23-04, 06:32 PM	Your DM must have read the Return of the Archwizards series... because I haven't heard of any game mechanic that mimics the effects of shadow magic and weave magic in their pure forms combining.
darczero 09-28-04, 02:55 AM	At higher levels (which it sounds like you're at, possibly even Epic levels), the DM often needs to specifically counter player abilities to make NPC villains, especially those with standard player races and classes, worth using. Would you rather run into Great Wyrm after Great Wyrm? Or would you rather be using Deities and Demigods as a supplement to the Monster Manual? I've encountered the problem from both sides, as a player and a DM. Unfortunately, from the player's perspective, my DM's always seemed to either counter everything I had (like making sure there were no Evil creatures for my paladin to smite), or simply overpower us completely (What do you mean we're fighting 8 Pit Fiends And Tiamat at the same time? With her five Great Wyrm consorts with their maximum Hit Points per die?) (<- Actually went through that one with an Epic Paladin). From the DM's perspective, it's difficult to justify non-player characters, especially villains, that would have any real reason to violently interact with player characters unless they are opposed in beliefs as well as alignment, which means they will usually have abilities that counter those of the players. Fortunately for you, the game generally favors Good and Light over Evil and Darkness. You (and your character) should usually have the upper hand. Also remember, it clearly states in the DMG (at least my copy) that all characters who begin an encounter receive a share of the experience award, even if they die.
Daydreamer 09-30-04, 01:50 AM	Doing what character can do to help him survie at his best?Yes Absusing knowledge of the game to twist things as much as possible in your favor? NO I would advise against raising your power very much as this could trigger the dm into a power match with you....this is something you will obviously lose. Try to bring yourself closer to his challenges without stomping on them or youll find urself quickly overwhelmed is my guess. However remember if you play to the max....and your dm sqashes you with npcs remember you will have no recourse or excuse for him using his and there abilities to the max...